'Won't be cheated on'. Why are you affair-proof?

[pureinheart]

There is NOTHING anyone can do to A-proof an R.

Simply because we CANNOT control others - only ourselves.

 

And while EVERYONE takes steps to have a healthy and happy (read cheat proof) R, it doesn't exist. All we can do is be true to our partner, be true to ourselves and choose a partner wisely.

 

The rest is up to your partner.

 

This is why I would emphasise not to "fix" another person and remain focused on ones own self...

 

While I really like your response, I would like to add that it does take both people, as we can do things to turn another person off and be a main contributor to dysfunction...

[Entropy3000]

I don't think I'm affair proof and while I am one of those people who believes they will never cheat, you NEVER know what you are going to do until you're put in that situation. You also NEVER know what your significant other is going to do until they are put in a particular situation.

 

There are many issues that lead to infidelity and I believe one of the best ways to combat infidelity is to stay carefully tuned in to your relationship, make sure your partner's needs are met, pay attention if they start with withdraw from the relationship or you isolate yourself.

 

Nobody is immune to being cheated on or nobody can really say they'll never cheat until they've made it through their entire lives without cheating.

 

Pure gold. Dead on. Partners need to look out for one another. We all have our kryptonite.

[waytogo]

This came up in another thread and I referred to it as denial/arrogance...

 

Many members on the board say they are 'positive' or 'sure' or even 'KNOW' their partner/husband wouldn't cheat on them.

 

I'm genuinely interested in the aspects of your relationship that makes this true. Or whether it's about your own personal attributes. Or whether it's because of the person you are with. Or a combination. Or something entirely different.

 

It's often argued that the BS has no influence on the actions of the WS... As someone who's sure they won't be betrayed, do you agree on that point?

 

Thanks for anything you can share re the above.

 

Hope it's ok to share from the end of what I won't do 1st. I've never cheated on someone who I was in an exclusive R. In support of what you say, I never thought I would be an OW yet there I was. Especially knowing how bad it felt for me to be a part of such serious deception, I can say with certainty I'll not be a part of something like that ever again. Besides completely adoring my H, EMA is just a path I'll not revisit for any reason.

 

Can I speak for my H? Of course not. I do trust him. I know much of his past and it does lend itself to him not engaging in an EMA. The only 1 I can control is me. As far as an EMA goes, it really isn't self-control, there is no desire. H is constantly in check with our future goals that adds to my confidence in him. We are very 'included' in each others lives. There's a very excellent chance EMA won't hit our marraige. Many thought never, but it turned out that way which is a shame. This time, I'm sure about me. I have faith in him based on what I've observed and know. It's not worth worrying about unless a threat comes into play. I'll choose not to worry

[woinlove]

My H's integrity and honesty are part of what first attracted me to him. Some people don't like the fact that he is often the one who says what you don't want to hear if he thinks it will be useful, but I love that about him. And all these years later, we still discuss our longings, attractions, fantasies at least every week. Every day if one has something interesting going on in that area. The combination of what we value and our continual open communication just doesn't leave much room for something secret going on with a third party.

 

Perhaps it is a bit different for us, because we agreed from the beginning that monogamy was not important to either of us and so we are what Dan Savage would call "monogamish". But I think the ingredients of integrity, values and continual open communication are likely useful in avoiding hurtful deception in any marriage.

[Entropy3000]

I agree but a relationship, whilst it should be worked on, should not feel like hard work. A low level of trust creates issues and can be emotionally exhausting for both parties even if the relationship is 100% faithful.

 

A good relationship takes work. It should be happy work. 100% trust is being lazy and is hopeful instead of actively being involved and in tune with your partner.

 

I speak from direct experience. I was in over my head in an EA with a co-worker. I was in denial. My wife caught it and got my attention. She saved our marriage. I was literally superman up until that time. No reason for her to not trust me. BUT, it can happen. I did not truly realize it was an EA until some time later after withdrawing from the affair. We watch out for each other. We are partners.

 

I am talking about being involved in what is going on with your SO. You can tell when things are changing in a relationship. Trust is fine. Nothing wrong with keeping aware of the relationship heartbeat. Blind trust is lazy.

[Woggle]

There is no way to be 100% sure but I am 1005 sure I will leave if she ever cheats and she knows it. She knows that it is a line she can never cross back and a severing of the marital bonds that she can never undo.

[whichwayisup]

But you can't say that because you don't know what the situation may be that causes someone to cheat. They don't put themselves in those situations? They don't have work friends? They don't go out in public and communicate with other people? They don't talk to people on the internet?

 

That all sounds fine and dandy in theory but the world just doesn't work that way. You may be so sure now but trust me, life throws curveballs we all aren't ready for.

 

I've seen that most people who have cheated and work through the affair almost always say they thought they'd never cheat but look at what they went and did ...

 

I never said don't have friendships, or work friends of the opposite sex..(sorry if I didn't make it clear)

[whichwayisup]

Exactly. You have to realize that bad situations can lead to cheating or the appearance of cheating. So we avoid those.

 

Thank you! You got what I was saying.

 

Not all men (and women) allow themselves to even be tempted.

[waytogo]

A good relationship takes work. It should be happy work. 100% trust is being lazy and is hopeful instead of actively being involved and in tune with your partner.

 

I speak from direct experience. I was in over my head in an EA with a co-worker. I was in denial. My wife caught it and got my attention. She saved our marriage. I was literally superman up until that time. No reason for her to not trust me. BUT, it can happen. I did not truly realize it was an EA until some time later after withdrawing from the affair. We watch out for each other. We are partners.

 

I am talking about being involved in what is going on with your SO. You can tell when things are changing in a relationship. Trust is fine. Nothing wrong with keeping aware of the relationship heartbeat. Blind trust is lazy.

 

This is an excellent post. I'm not sure how far things went with you but glad for the success story.

 

I headed off things that made me uncomfortable b4 getting M. He wasn't really guilty of certain things then. After seeing how innocent can turn to anything but from what I had done, I had new boundaries 4 the R I'd put the rest of my life. Sure I irritated him sometimes with said boundaries. He knew I was serious. Because he was serious about me, he respected them and adjusted.

 

Good for your W and good for you!

[OWoman]

I do like to think that recovered (is there a better word for this?) relationships have a good chance of not experiencing infidelity in future

 

But then I ALSO like to think that relationships like mine stand a good chance also, due to lessons learnt. So maybe it doesn't carry too much relevance.

 

IMO a post-A R (whether it be a recovered M, or a R between fAPs that goes mainstream) that develops through the hard work of facing down why and how the A happened allows both the fWS and their SO to develop skills and techniques to prevent and address the kinds of issues that led to, or enabled, the A. I think few OWs or OMs who land up with their fMP are happy just to ride off into the sunset with them - those who do so uncritically often land up with trust issues or struggling with patterns inherited from the toxic M that the fWS left behind. Similarly those BSs who simply take the WS back with no expectation of change run the same risks, and are probably even more at risk of subsequent iterations of "cheating" since for the WS the issues that led them to "cheat" in the first place remain, and they "got away with it" last time so they've faced the consequences and hey, that wasn't so bad...

 

But a savvy OW / OM or BS who takes on a fWS for the long haul knows what the risks are, they know what can go wrong - they've lived it from whichever side - and they know how easily that can happen. So they're at an advantage in that they're not in that denial of "it can never happen to us" because it has. It's showed them a set of their own behaviours and values that they may not have had surfaced before, and it's also shown them resourced that they may not have known they had. So both their R knowledge and their self-knowledge are greater, and they are more prepared. They also have a very real appreciation of the value of their R, having fought for it, and they treasure it and nurture it actively because they know how important it is to them.

[Silly_Girl]

Unlike cheaters/om/ow there are some folks in this world who know how to keep their legs closed and their mind focused on their partner. No need to be jealous of that.

 

Yes, and plenty think they've bagged one and turns out they haven't. So why are others able to be so sure? Any contribution to make, Mr?

[Silly_Girl]

IMO a post-A R (whether it be a recovered M, or a R between fAPs that goes mainstream) that develops through the hard work of facing down why and how the A happened allows both the fWS and their SO to develop skills and techniques to prevent and address the kinds of issues that led to, or enabled, the A. I think few OWs or OMs who land up with their fMP are happy just to ride off into the sunset with them - those who do so uncritically often land up with trust issues or struggling with patterns inherited from the toxic M that the fWS left behind. Similarly those BSs who simply take the WS back with no expectation of change run the same risks, and are probably even more at risk of subsequent iterations of "cheating" since for the WS the issues that led them to "cheat" in the first place remain, and they "got away with it" last time so they've faced the consequences and hey, that wasn't so bad...

 

But a savvy OW / OM or BS who takes on a fWS for the long haul knows what the risks are, they know what can go wrong - they've lived it from whichever side - and they know how easily that can happen. So they're at an advantage in that they're not in that denial of "it can never happen to us" because it has. It's showed them a set of their own behaviours and values that they may not have had surfaced before, and it's also shown them resourced that they may not have known they had. So both their R knowledge and their self-knowledge are greater, and they are more prepared. They also have a very real appreciation of the value of their R, having fought for it, and they treasure it and nurture it actively because they know how important it is to them.

 

That last bolded part speaks to me... well, all the post does but this bit. I feel very strongly that we feel the fallout of such actions and are acutely aware of how bad/neglectful behaviours (or a little laziness) can impact.

 

Actually, in my experience the second marriages have lasted much longer than the first, where there's been a remarriage.

[Tenacity]

Not all men (and women) allow themselves to even be tempted.

 

It isn't always a conscious decision.

 

In fact, I would argue that most of the time, for those people who don't want to be tempted, it isn't.

 

Emotional affairs often happen before you even realize it. It's not like you are presented with a 'decision' to enter into an EA, and you make a choice. ("Yes, you know what? I think I will have an EA with this person. I don't really care if people are hurt") People who have been in this situation know what I'm talking about. Some of the BS's here want to make OW/OM out to be tramps because they were supposedly confronted with this big decision and decided to be unfaithful and hurt people. Much of the time, that's not the reality AT ALL. It happens in baby steps, and before you even REALIZE it, there you are. It just isn't that simple!!! Anyone who has ever been in these shoes knows what I'm talking about.

 

Still, I understand why the BS wants to believe this. I was one of the adamant people who would NEVER, EVER have an EMA.

 

I am NOT saying the OW/OM is blameless. Absolutely not!!! I just do not think that they are terrible people "just" because they had an A. Walk a mile in their shoes, and then judge. No one can judge ANYONE else unless and until THEY have been in that situation.

 

NO relationship is immune to an A. Anyone who believes that is deluding themselves. NO ONE can control anyone's behavior EXCEPT their own. Human nature, and emotions, are beyond complex. I don't care what anyone says, or promises. There is no such thing as A-proof.

 

I would definitely agree that there are couples who are significantly more likely than others to be affected.

[Silly_Girl]

No one can judge ANYONE else unless and until THEY have been in that situation.

 

 

I wish more felt this way. I feel that one can make a detached call and disapprove of an action. But judging people, treating people with disrespect without truly understanding where they've come from or what factors/pressures were involved....

 

Understanding doesn't have to mean condoning.

[Entropy3000]

Thank you! You got what I was saying.

 

Not all men (and women) allow themselves to even be tempted.

 

Agreed. To understand this, one has to be mature enough to know that staying away from the temptation is the best way not to be tempted.

If we continually indulge ourselves and are continually tempted the likelihood of failure increase dramtically. No matter how much character we think we have. We are but human. So we have to be smart about it.

[Silly_Girl]

I have made a contribution. Very sorry it doesn't fit your profile, ma'am.

 

Not my 'profile' just didn't answer the opening post and I'd have been interested. Not to worry.

[MissBee]

Agreed. To understand this, one has to be mature enough to know that staying away from the temptation is the best way not to be tempted.

If we continually indulge ourselves and are continually tempted the likelihood of failure increase dramtically. No matter how much character we think we have. We are but human. So we have to be smart about it.

 

That's my stance as well.

 

It's not be some paranoid watchdog with blinders...but an example, like I said, was not having late night phone convos with an opposite sex co worker and risk building up that attraction and intimacy.

 

Another example, one of my good friends is looking for a new roommate so my other friend suggested that her bf move in with my friend. My good friend as speaking to me about it and said that she thinks it's a bad idea, because he already sometimes comes to her to talk about his relationship and she can see them living together and having lengthy intimate convos and it crossing the line...as we are humans and that's how EA's start. She opted out of that arrangement. Likewise, whenever he wants to talk about his relationship, she invites my other friend for it to be a 3 person convo with her as mediator versus him coming to her alone.

 

I think those are wise choices and preventative measures that reduce the chances of being blindsided by an affair.

[fooled once]

This came up in another thread and I referred to it as denial/arrogance...

 

Many members on the board say they are 'positive' or 'sure' or even 'KNOW' their partner/husband wouldn't cheat on them.

 

I'm genuinely interested in the aspects of your relationship that makes this true. Or whether it's about your own personal attributes. Or whether it's because of the person you are with. Or a combination. Or something entirely different.

 

It's often argued that the BS has no influence on the actions of the WS... As someone who's sure they won't be betrayed, do you agree on that point?

 

Thanks for anything you can share re the above.

 

Why do you think you can call my views denial or arrogance? Why not just accept my beliefs about myself? Why do you think you can judge me (and others) for our beliefs?

 

Why do I know this to be true? Because of the character of me and my husband. Because we communicate, because we trust, because we believe in the vows we wrote and said to each other.

 

What does a BS have to do with a person who decides to cheat? That is like comparing babies and fruit.

 

Why are you so adamant that just because you behave one way that the rest of us are sure to behave that way? Why do you care about how we think? Why do you care so much that we are adamant that we won't cheat? How does that affect your life?

[Entropy3000]

This is an excellent post. I'm not sure how far things went with you but glad for the success story.

 

I headed off things that made me uncomfortable b4 getting M. He wasn't really guilty of certain things then. After seeing how innocent can turn to anything but from what I had done, I had new boundaries 4 the R I'd put the rest of my life. Sure I irritated him sometimes with said boundaries. He knew I was serious. Because he was serious about me, he respected them and adjusted.

 

Good for your W and good for you!

 

By most peoples standards not so far. It had crossed into inappropriate. We were just friends of course. Unthrottled it would have ended my marriage.

 

It took me a very long time to forgive myself. It is a success story though. In tune loving spouses can intervene if they get involved quickly and they really care. I am not proud of the EA by any means. It showed a real chink in my armour. It shattered my self esteem. But if it helps one person to hear this then it is worth some embarassment on my part.

 

Yes, my wife is an awesome person.

[Entropy3000]

It isn't always a conscious decision.

 

In fact, I would argue that most of the time, for those people who don't want to be tempted, it isn't.

 

Emotional affairs often happen before you even realize it. It's not like you are presented with a 'decision' to enter into an EA, and you make a choice. ("Yes, you know what? I think I will have an EA with this person. I don't really care if people are hurt") People who have been in this situation know what I'm talking about. Some of the BS's here want to make OW/OM out to be tramps because they were supposedly confronted with this big decision and decided to be unfaithful and hurt people. Much of the time, that's not the reality AT ALL. It happens in baby steps, and before you even REALIZE it, there you are. It just isn't that simple!!! Anyone who has ever been in these shoes knows what I'm talking about.

 

Still, I understand why the BS wants to believe this. I was one of the adamant people who would NEVER, EVER have an EMA.

 

I am NOT saying the OW/OM is blameless. Absolutely not!!! I just do not think that they are terrible people "just" because they had an A. Walk a mile in their shoes, and then judge. No one can judge ANYONE else unless and until THEY have been in that situation.

 

NO relationship is immune to an A. Anyone who believes that is deluding themselves. NO ONE can control anyone's behavior EXCEPT their own. Human nature, and emotions, are beyond complex. I don't care what anyone says, or promises. There is no such thing as A-proof.

 

I would definitely agree that there are couples who are significantly more likely than others to be affected.

 

 

Yes in my case. No excuses but it does happen before you know it. The dopamine and oxytocin start overriding brain activity. It feels ok. But it is not.

[LilyBart]

I believe Silly was asking those who KNOW their spouse would NEVER cheat on them (like, 100% guarantee knowing) if they would share how it is possible to make a relationship so.

 

Do they do something specific? Look for certain benchmarks?

 

I actually think this is a pretty valid question. If you're going to make such declarations, it's interesting to find out how a 100% guarantee of KNOWING is possible.....

[fooled once]

But you can't say that because you don't know what the situation may be that causes someone to cheat. They don't put themselves in those situations? They don't have work friends? They don't go out in public and communicate with other people? They don't talk to people on the internet?

 

That all sounds fine and dandy in theory but the world just doesn't work that way. You may be so sure now but trust me, life throws curveballs we all aren't ready for.

 

I've seen that most people who have cheated and work through the affair almost always say they thought they'd never cheat but look at what they went and did ...

 

SOME people. I really don't understand why some have a problem with some saying "I WILL NEVER CHEAT". Its a fact. I know myself and I know my character. It isn't something I would ever do and after seeing how cheating affects so many, there is no way I would voluntarily do something that would hurt my spouse or my child. I will never cheat. Yep, I can say it and will still be saying it on my death bed.

 

 

If I thought my man might stray if I didn't please him well enough, I would NOT be with this man. That said, I make a great deal of effort to please him well enough. Because, I believe that when both parties do this, it makes for a great relationship that all the distractions & temptations won't touch.

 

Yep, I can positively say what I would never do and I am pretty damn sure I can speak for my H in this regard. If I thought he was capable of cheating, why in the world would I be with him? I wouldn't. That is a characteristic of someone I have no desire to be with. Why would I want to be with someone who can lie so easily, who is a coward, who has no respect for their partner nor knows how to be faithful. I wouldn't. That's just me though

 

Your post makes sense. The bolded... I think you can have an awareness that your relationship is a vulnerable as the next, but not actively spend time wondering whether you are likely to be affected by infidelity.

 

So you think couples need to be talking daily about cheating? I should ask my husband each day before leaving for work "do you think you may cheat on me today"? Or should I ask him when he gets home "did you cheat today"? I can see feeling that way and needing to discuss it ad nauseum if you are with someone due to cheating; but I see no reason to make sure fidelity is a part of our daily conversation.

 

My H's integrity and honesty are part of what first attracted me to him.

 

I

But a savvy OW / OM or BS who takes on a fWS for the long haul knows what the risks are, they know what can go wrong - they've lived it from whichever side - and they know how easily that can happen. So they're at an advantage in that they're not in that denial of "it can never happen to us" because it has. It's showed them a set of their own behaviours and values that they may not have had surfaced before, and it's also shown them resourced that they may not have known they had. So both their R knowledge and their self-knowledge are greater, and they are more prepared. They also have a very real appreciation of the value of their R, having fought for it, and they treasure it and nurture it actively because they know how important it is to them.

 

How exactly can a mistress know the risks of infidelity from the marriage of which she wasn't a part of? Oh, that's right, because the MM told her all the problems, which were of course all his wife's issues. The only advantage is they both know what they are capable of ... the secrets, the sneaking, the gaslighting. They know how to have an affair. It isn't denial that many have; it is called trust, communication, respect, loyalty, etc. Why do some really have issues with those of us who aren't cheaters? Why do they have to constantly question OUR motives/views when we aren't the ones who cheated?

 

And FYI, those of us who are happily married to non-cheaters also know the value of our relationship, believe it or not. We don't have to deal with infidelity to know how to behave, how to conduct ourselves, etc. Those of us who don't deal with infidelity treasure our relationships too We also nurture our marriage because we know how important it is, and we don't have to have infidelity to know that. Heavens, it is almost as if a trophy needs to be given to those who are with their affair partners since they seem to be the only ones in real, honest relationships.

[seren]

I was someone who thought their H would never, ever have an A and no I didn't take my eye off the ball. H and I were having problems and yes I tried to find out why, what was going on with him before the A began, and no we hadn't stopped intimacy, laughter, plans etc etc just pick a stereotype and discount it. I thought we were affair proof because we just fit, we were the poster couple for a happy, loving marriage and yet H had an 8 month affair. I did not have my head up my arse, or take him for granted, H had problems with PTSd after Iraq and his self esteem was shot to ****, he wouldn't talk about it, but I knew something was off, but never thought he would have an A.

Are we A proof now? well I now say, never, ever say never, but H knows that there would be no second chances and I trust him, but not blindly like before. What I can say is that I will never, ever have an A. It isn't my way and is so far from what I would want for myself or H that I know it won't happen. So while I am A proof, I cannot speak for H, he would say no, never ever again as he saw how hurt and devastated I was and also because he is in a different place than then, BUT, I just wouldn't be so trusting again.

 

So from someone who KNEW for over 20 years that their husband wouldn't have an A, I was proved wrong.

[Snowflower]

Awesome thread, my LS peeps!

 

Very thought-provoking and very good supporting points from all perspectives.

 

Entropy, your thoughts about blind trust being lazy really hit home for me. Thanks for this.

 

I have learned to never say never and that life has no guarantees. (No surprise there!) But my H and I learned painful lessons the hard way. If experience isn't the best teacher, then I don't know what is.

 

Really enjoying this thread.

[Audrina]

I never said don't have friendships, or work friends of the opposite sex..(sorry if I didn't make it clear)

 

Those are the people affairs are most often had with.

 

SOME people. I really don't understand why some have a problem with some saying "I WILL NEVER CHEAT". Its a fact. I know myself and I know my character. It isn't something I would ever do and after seeing how cheating affects so many, there is no way I would voluntarily do something that would hurt my spouse or my child. I will never cheat. Yep, I can say it and will still be saying it on my death bed.

 

I have never cheated on a boyfriend and have no intention on ever doing so. But after everything I've learned about relationships I've realized one thing, we are only human. We all crave companionship, love, acceptance and sexual gratification. When needs aren't met in a relationship, people tend to find it elsewhere.

 

Like you, I FEEL like I will never cheat in a relationship, I would much rather spare my partner that pain but I can't say for sure because I have no clue what the future will hold. I have my morals and standards just like you, however, nobody can predict the future.

 

When you talk to couples, or individuals who have cheated you often hear that they just weren't thinking at the time but when it was over the guilt of what they had done was overwhelming. It's easy to say you'll walk away from any and all opportunities to cheat, but when you're in the perfect storm you really may feel differently.

 

Like I said, once you ARE on your death bed having made it through all of life's trials and tribulations, that's when people get to say they'll never cheat.