'Won't be cheated on'. Why are you affair-proof?

[Glinda]

The irony for me is the enormous number of times some posters can dispute another's viewpoint, ridicule them, high-five their buddies whilst mocking and teasing, but if the discussion actually involves them and becomes an exchange of substance, it's no longer called debating or 'calling it like you see it' (or the list of other stuff that gets trotted out) it's called bullying. Nature of the clique mentality I guess. Real shame though.

It's even more ironic that you don't see your own complicity. Your hypocrisy is the real shame here.

[Taramere]

**I find this impossible because you (general you) never know how you will react to something. It is almost as if saying "my child may die before me so I better prepare myself for that". What is wrong with falling to pieces when someone you love hurts you to the soul? Coping mechanisms are great in theory, but many times when blindsided by a life changing event, we can only fall to pieces.

 

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "falling to pieces." I would categorise that as meaning becoming unable to function. Losing all interest in life. I don't think that's an inevitable response to a life changing event that people must resign themselves to. There are ways for a person to prevent themselves from sinking into that dark place. I think people have a responsibility (to themselves, and also to others who love them) to take that action to stop themselves falling apart completely.

 

It can be done. It doesn't mean you can't grieve, and cry and feel pain and bitterness...but it's possible to go through all that without completely falling to pieces. It's a test of the human spirit...and if, in a situation like that, you find that your spirit isn't as strong as you thought it was then the challenge is to start developing it into something stronger. It's not about being hard, or about avoiding pain. Pain and betrayal are a part of life. Some people experience them a lot, others less so...but we all, if we live long enough, experience some level of it.

 

Learning to absorb an unexpected blow and set about the business of recovering from the pain and shock as quickly, and as well, as we can isn't something that's fine in theory but impossible in practice. It is a necessity, for anybody who wants to recover their self respect and ability to experience happiness and a sense of peace post-betrayal. The only alternative is to remain in pieces. That shouldn't even be an option.

[xxoo]

FO, having suffered depression more than once in the past and had suicidal thoughts I'm not sure I can roll with 'what's wrong with falling to pieces when heartbroken?'... But that's a personal thing.

 

I thought you wanted women to be empowered, not be victims of bad treatment within relationships?

 

Who do you think is most likely to cope best if their husband cheats on them? Taramere and Steadfast for example who say they're not focused on it or expecting it but they absolutely have an awareness it can happen in any relationship, there relationships are not invincible? Or yourself and Donna who say no way, nope, can't happen, absolutely not possible, not a chance, I'm safe and protected from all that?

 

I think the point is that women who are being treated well within healthy relationships can enjoy confidence that there is and will be no cheating in their relationship.

 

This does not mean that the same women will not feel empowered to leave, or have strong coping skills, if the treatment in their relationship ever changes.

[donnamaybe]

LB, I'm not stomping your post here, but there's a blaring truth. Knowing OW already KNOW they are involved with a cheater. Sometimes they know they aren't the 1st OW.

 

History can be a predictor without other changes in a person. You are right that 'he can't possibly love you' can't be determined by others in many of these cases. Some OP state things that do make that obvious. Others may well be loved. The question in most is, what does MM love more, himself? his security? The norm of his life with another who's left a secret? If the OW doesn't want to be a secret, he is putting other things above her, mostly for himself.

 

Can an MM ever really love his OW? Of course. Maybe even love his BW at the same time. What will he choice if the chips come down? Even when he chooses home, he may not really have chosen either, but chose himself.

 

Yes. This thread is about people being honest in their R's, because in order to cheat one MUST be dishonest in their R. Every OW/OM already knows their WS is dishonest in their R, so...

[donnamaybe]

I think the point is that women who are being treated well within healthy relationships can enjoy confidence that there is and will be no cheating in their relationship.

Yep, that is the point.

This does not mean that the same women will not feel empowered to leave, or have strong coping skills, if the treatment in their relationship ever changes.

Again, right on the money.

[Steadfast]

Yes. This thread is about people being honest in their R's, because in order to cheat one MUST be dishonest in their R. Every OW/OM already knows their WS is dishonest in their R, so...

 

Great point.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I have no problem with Donna or anyone else who 'insists' their marriage is affair proof. Knowing my limitations, how could I ever assume to know what's happening in someone else's relationship? I think her attitude and dedication is inspiring. Besides, if I were married this is the way I'd want to see it...this is the confidence I'd want to have. Also, Donna doesn't seem to be on relationship auto-pilot, and that's probably where many 'secure' marriages go wrong.

 

It is still a matter of choice however. No one can talk me out of that. If I can speak for Donna, she's confident her husband will choose not to cheat.

 

The board infighting here is out of control. I've been involved in a couple of pretty nasty debates (even after promising myself to not respond to responders) but it is tough not to react when you read something so blatant. I can count on one hand (with five fingers left over) the number of people I've influenced to change their minds. Best to just make your point and let the reader decide. The older I get, the less I know anyway...

[xxoo]

Besides, if I were married this is the way I'd want to see it...this is the confidence I'd want to have. Also, Donna doesn't seem to be on relationship auto-pilot, and that's probably where many 'secure' marriages go wrong.

 

I would not want to be in a marriage without that confidence, either.

 

But, yes, great point on this not meaning "auto-pilot" is inevitable! I'm motivated to be a great partner because I want a great relationship, and simply because I love him and believe he deserves a great partner. I'm not staying on my toes out of fear of him cheating, though.

[Silly_Girl]

I think the point is that women who are being treated well within healthy relationships can enjoy confidence that there is and will be no cheating in their relationship.

 

I guess that's the crux of the difference of opinion. Those posters believe that good treatment now guarantees them that for the rest of the relationship. I don't find it realistic to make that assumption, in part because of some of the stories here from folks who were enjoying what seemed to be really great relationships, yet things took a turn and the change was dramatic. I know I believe everyone is vulnerable, I was just curious as to what others felt prevented them from being vulnerable, but I didn't get quite as much information back as I'd hoped.

[donnamaybe]

I would not want to be in a marriage without that confidence, either.

 

But, yes, great point on this not meaning "auto-pilot" is inevitable! I'm motivated to be a great partner because I want a great relationship, and simply because I love him and believe he deserves a great partner. I'm not staying on my toes out of fear of him cheating, though.

 

Yes, my man is so good, and not just to me, that I want good things for him.

[xxoo]

I guess that's the crux of the difference of opinion. Those posters believe that good treatment now guarantees them that for the rest of the relationship. I don't find it realistic to make that assumption, in part because of some of the stories here from folks who were enjoying what seemed to be really great relationships, yet things took a turn and the change was dramatic. I know I believe everyone is vulnerable, I was just curious as to what others felt prevented them from being vulnerable, but I didn't get quite as much information back as I'd hoped.

 

For me, it has to do with the trust I have in my ability to judge my relationship.

 

The way it is now, cheating won't happen.

 

If it changes, and distance sets in, I trust I'll know that and take some dramatic steps of my own long before cheating happens. I know myself well enough that I won't be capable of drifting in a distanced relationship for any length of time.

[donnamaybe]

For me, it has to do with the trust I have in my ability to judge my relationship.

 

The way it is now, cheating won't happen.

 

If it changes, and distance sets in, I trust I'll know that and take some dramatic steps of my own long before cheating happens. I know myself well enough that I won't be capable of drifting in a distanced relationship for any length of time.

 

Yes, and it is also knowing your R partner not only through your eyes but the eyes of anyone who has ever known him, as well as a well established history of honesty and integrity in every facet of his life. He also is not a man of cowardice who is afraid of taking any steps necessary to ensure his life and R are as they should be.

[waytogo]

I guess that's the crux of the difference of opinion. Those posters believe that good treatment now guarantees them that for the rest of the relationship. I don't find it realistic to make that assumption, in part because of some of the stories here from folks who were enjoying what seemed to be really great relationships, yet things took a turn and the change was dramatic. I know I believe everyone is vulnerable, I was just curious as to what others felt prevented them from being vulnerable, but I didn't get quite as much information back as I'd hoped.

 

Without some indication, there's no reason to be on guard that consistant behavior won't remain consistant bahavior. Think of a kind someone for whom you have great respect. Will that person be likely to gun down an innocent party for a 'thrill kill'? If you can be sure certain people you know won't do certain things, why couldn't anyone be sure of this 1 act as far as the person they are close to?

 

In fairness, I have to backup your arguement to a degree as I never, but never thought I would be an OW. People can do things out of character especially under extreme strain. People close to me already saw some of my behavior as uncharacteristic. They just didn't know where I was heading as neither did I. If they did, they would have talked me down, or at least tried to. If I had opened up more, they probably would have been successful in talking me down. I can now say with 100% I'll never be in an A again. It is too much pain, unstability and guilt for me to ever put myself back in such a place.

[waytogo]

Yes. This thread is about people being honest in their R's, because in order to cheat one MUST be dishonest in their R. Every OW/OM already knows their WS is dishonest in their R, so...

 

 

Where were you when I was being an idiot

 

Seriously, it's unfortunate I didn't know this place then. If you and posters like you had been here along with reading what the majority of people on all sides of As go thru, my story would probably be very different. I'll never take for granted how well my story turned out despite it all. I'm not digging the remorse, but if I was, I guess it wouldn't be remorse.

[seren]

If anyone had told me H was having an A I would have said don't be stupid, we are solid, we are in love we are happy. I would have been stood against a wall and shot before I would have said he would, could, was having an A. Fact was he did. I was totally blind sided, not because of arrogance or denial, but because I believed with every fibre of my being that I could trust me with my H. I call it blind trust, simply because I had never, ever trusted anyone so much in my life.

I have a pretty traumatic history which has affected my trust, H was and is the only person I felt able to confide in fully, the man I let my guard down with. We had always, always said that if either fell in love with another (for me that would be the reason I could imagine leaving for someone else) then we would leave before taking it anywhere. H reinforced this over and over, his actions never gave me cause to suspect he was having an A.

 

I knew when he came back from his third Iraq tour that he had changed, he couldn't, wouldn't didn't discuss anything about it, but he had changed. He had an 8 month A, when he told me I was floored, never saw it coming simply because I believed. My loss of naivety in relation to life, love and all that hurts him, he feels guilty that he was the reason this has tainted me. I just feel foolish that I ever believed my marriage was A proof.

 

I know, categorically that I will never cheat. I have two divorces behind me, in each when I realised I was no longer in love wth my H I left, I would do the same again if I felt this or felt attraction for another. I value my integrity too much, I couldn't forgive myself, I don't want that on my conscience and I couldn't hurt anyone the way H's A hurt me.

 

I will never say my marriage is A proof, I know it won't be from me, but I will never second guess H. All I can do is hope that it has sunk in with him that there are no second chances and that realising how close we came to losing us will prevent it happening again. I am glad there are people who have that blind trust just wish that I hadn't experienced the A which destroyed mine.

[fooled once]

 

The board infighting here is out of control. I've been involved in a couple of pretty nasty debates (even after promising myself to not respond to responders) but it is tough not to react when you read something so blatant. I can count on one hand (with five fingers left over) the number of people I've influenced to change their minds. Best to just make your point and let the reader decide. The older I get, the less I know anyway...

 

I agree. And the responding to and egging on trolls is getting very old. IGNORE the trolls and stop feeding them. Discuss the issue, NOT the person. Realize everyone has a point of view and low and behold, some will be totally different than yours!

 

Yes, and it is also knowing your R partner not only through your eyes but the eyes of anyone who has ever known him, as well as a well established history of honesty and integrity in every facet of his life. He also is not a man of cowardice who is afraid of taking any steps necessary to ensure his life and R are as they should be.

 

Exactly! It is knowing all facets of a person. It is more than just my view of him. Everyone who knows my H adores him. He is incredibly friendly and very personable. He is a man of his word and I trust him with my heart. I personally can't stand weak men; the men who blame everyone around them but themselves. They are so pathetic and weak in my view. I like a strong; yet sensitive man :love:

[donnamaybe]

If someone close to me went through something traumatic and life changing like war and I saw a definite change in their personality, of course I would expect behavior changes as well. I have a close friend whose man has PTSD after a tour in Iraq. He is still going to the BS hospital for treatment and working through his issues, but things are looking up for uim, thankfully.

 

Unless something happens to my man that engenders some drastic personality change, my confidence in him will remain.

[SidLyon]

This came up in another thread and I referred to it as denial/arrogance...

 

Many members on the board say they are 'positive' or 'sure' or even 'KNOW' their partner/husband wouldn't cheat on them.

 

I'm genuinely interested in the aspects of your relationship that makes this true. Or whether it's about your own personal attributes. Or whether it's because of the person you are with. Or a combination. Or something entirely different.

 

It's often argued that the BS has no influence on the actions of the WS... As someone who's sure they won't be betrayed, do you agree on that point?

 

Thanks for anything you can share re the above.

 

To be honest I haven't seen that many are saying this. I started reading this thread but it became tedious with in-fighting. But as I recall the main people who say this are actually some OW who insist that it was some sort of "special circumstances" that cause their MM to cheat plus 2(?) women who are neither OW nor BW as far as I can tell.

 

Those of us who are BW and/or reconciling fBW have learned all too sadly to our detriment, that trusting our WHs not to cheat was a mistake. I'm not certain that I would ever have said that I know he wouldn't cheat but I certainly didn't know he was cheating until d-day.

 

To those that know he wouldn't cheat (and so far he hasn't) I say good on you; but to those who are either OW who have "got" the man or those fBW who are reconciling I say take care. He has form and it would be foolhardy to insist he would never cheat again.

 

I have given my H another chance but he won't ever get another from me.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have answered as you have only asked those who are sure they won't be betrayed to respond. I'm not sure why, as you start by calling it "denial/arrogance".

[Silly_Girl]

Perhaps I shouldn't have answered as you have only asked those who are sure they won't be betrayed to respond. I'm not sure why, as you start by calling it "denial/arrogance".

 

Yep - I openly said that was how I saw it, and I am happy to hear other's view and be convinced otherwise. I'd not have posted the thread if I wasn't wanting that view to be countered. Perhaps broadening one's horizons and honest debate is not so welcome.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Silly_Girl

[Silly_Girl]

If anyone had told me H was having an A I would have said don't be stupid, we are solid, we are in love we are happy. I would have been stood against a wall and shot before I would have said he would, could, was having an A. Fact was he did. I was totally blind sided, not because of arrogance or denial, but because I believed with every fibre of my being that I could trust me with my H. I call it blind trust, simply because I had never, ever trusted anyone so much in my life.

I have a pretty traumatic history which has affected my trust, H was and is the only person I felt able to confide in fully, the man I let my guard down with. We had always, always said that if either fell in love with another (for me that would be the reason I could imagine leaving for someone else) then we would leave before taking it anywhere. H reinforced this over and over, his actions never gave me cause to suspect he was having an A.

 

I knew when he came back from his third Iraq tour that he had changed, he couldn't, wouldn't didn't discuss anything about it, but he had changed. He had an 8 month A, when he told me I was floored, never saw it coming simply because I believed. My loss of naivety in relation to life, love and all that hurts him, he feels guilty that he was the reason this has tainted me. I just feel foolish that I ever believed my marriage was A proof.

 

I know, categorically that I will never cheat. I have two divorces behind me, in each when I realised I was no longer in love wth my H I left, I would do the same again if I felt this or felt attraction for another. I value my integrity too much, I couldn't forgive myself, I don't want that on my conscience and I couldn't hurt anyone the way H's A hurt me.

 

I will never say my marriage is A proof, I know it won't be from me, but I will never second guess H. All I can do is hope that it has sunk in with him that there are no second chances and that realising how close we came to losing us will prevent it happening again. I am glad there are people who have that blind trust just wish that I hadn't experienced the A which destroyed mine.

 

Beautiful post, despite the sadness. I really do appreciate your posts for their openness, even when it's tough stuff. Thank you.

[Taramere]

Yep - I openly said that was how I saw it, and I am happy to hear other's view and be convinced otherwise. I'd not have posted the thread if I wasn't wanting that view to be countered. Perhaps broadening one's horizons and honest debate is not so welcome.

 

I think it's fair enough to raise the subject, and the various views are interesting. My view on this is closer to yours.

 

To me, answering questions on this board is sometimes like going filling in one of those psychometric tests. You know what the "right" answers (ie the ones most people would find most likeable) would be. You know the traits you wish you had - but still, you want to get at the truth about who you are and how you think. Rather than the rosy picture of who you'd like to see yourself as.

 

If somebody strips all your coping mechanisms away, without having the skills or desire to support you through that moment when you face a distressing truth, it's traumatising. You mentioned earlier having gone through a very bad phase, and my guess would be that it was triggered by that happening to you. Me too. A lot of people come onto LS having had that happen to them..and looking for new ways to cope, to replace the previous coping mechanisms that got stripped away. Sometimes it helps them, other times people want to strip away what few coping mechanisms they have left.

 

To pretend to have gone back to a place of innocence, where you can't possibly imagine somebody you love betraying you, would be a lie....and so you have to figure out how to balance hope, trust and reality.

[donnamaybe]

Perhaps I shouldn't have answered as you have only asked those who are sure they won't be betrayed to respond. I'm not sure why, as you start by calling it "denial/arrogance".

 

Could it be an attempt to ridicule anyone who has a partner who has never dealt with any of their R's with dishonesty and deceit?

[Steadfast]

I am glad there are people who have that blind trust just wish that I hadn't experienced the A which destroyed mine.

 

I've written paragraph after paragraph trying to say what's contained in this one simple sentence. Thank you Seren...and I'm sorry. FWIW, me too.

 

One of the best lyrics ever written IMO is found in Bob Seger's 'Against the Wind'; "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Ignorance is bliss.

[donnamaybe]

I've written paragraph after paragraph trying to say what's contained in this one simple sentence. Thank you Seren...and I'm sorry. FWIW, me too.

 

One of the best lyrics ever written IMO is found in Bob Seger's 'Against the Wind'; "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Ignorance is bliss.

 

But in the example she outlined, one might have been able to see the personality change and expect something out of character. Additionally, her H isn't the same person as my man, and he is not the same as the partner of the other "ignorant" people in this thread.

[donnamaybe]

I don't know about every man, but I do know about mine.

 

I had a boyfriend once who I caught on dating sites after we were supposedly committed. I didn't wait for him to cheat. He already displayed those sneaky tendencies. To the curb! :love:

[Woggle]

I don't believe every man cheats because I don't but I do believe that if you flirt with many women right they will have an affair and not think twice about it. No offense to the women who would never do this.