Do I contact her?

[waytogo]

As a woman who was conned by a man who said it was separated for almost 2 years, your story has many red flags and some similarities. Knowing what I know now.......my advice is to contact the wife, the sooner the better because I think that is the ONLY way you will find out if this man is really who he claims to be. For your sake......I hope you haven't been conned.

 

I don't know if the IT was on purpose BB, it is funny either way.

 

Dani, BB and other posters are right. You have shared children for each of you to consider. There is every reason to communicate with her, for the kids more than your concern of MM's honesty or not. That you also need to know for yourself. I'm curious if your hesitation is about not wanting to know the truth if you don't like it. Probably curious about that as I could see myself feeling that way yrs ago.

 

You need to know for your children, and yourself the truth of where you are building or destructing a future for all of you.

[Emme]

I suppose you are welcome to your opinion on that.

 

 

All I want is the drama gone.

Yeah, I'm concerned about my happiness, and my childrens happiness. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned about anything else.

 

 

You don't want the DRAMA GONE.

 

This thread is about you trying to attempt to make a situation more uncomfortable because you are unhappy with the circumstance. Period.

 

You can sing it however you want to, it is what it is. When you face the fact that your attempt is to get your outcome then you might start to think more clearly.

 

Number one, you are ENGAGED to a man who you believe might still be married. You believe it. He's told you he's divorced. The question of why you think this man is a liar is because he's actions have made you question him. RED FLAG. Something is not right. Yet you are continuing to play house. The way you wish to resolve this issue of whether your fiance is a liar is to contact the mother of his children. You’re looking for a 3rd party for verification. WHY? I hope in the future when a situation arises between you and your fiance/husband you won't be running to her to resolve the issue. You are a woman 25 years young with 2 children. Handle your business. Girl you better get that back bone NOW or that old man will walk all over you. You don't contact his "wife/ex-wife" that's DRAMA! You tell him one day, WE are going to the county clerk’s office. (Call in work for the whole day, half a day. You don’t want it sent to you by mail, you want it from the clerk straight into your hands.) You want a copy of his divorce decree. END OF. That's how you handle your business. If you choose not to take that route you want DRAMA in your life.

 

Number two… You can’t go to number two if number one isn’t rectified. If he is divorced that’s wonderful. As far as HIS children are concerned. If your fiance feels it’s in the best interest or even his own interest to hold off on telling his children you are engaged, so be it. Not everything has to come to light when you want. You did say you would do it if it’s in the best interest for them, so act like it. That’s all I’m saying. Put the pout face away. Put the tantrum away. It’s time to accept this man as yours and even though you guys do love each other you’re willingly waiting until his children become more comfortable with the idea of you being a permanent figure in his life. That’s all I’m saying. Just act like an adult and accept it. If it’s not acceptable to you… you want drama in your life.

 

Number three… You can’t go to number three if you haven’t rectified number two. The wife doesn’t have to meet you. I’m sorry… It’s sad but true. She might not even want your name mentioned in her home. It’s great that you have built a relationship with your ex husband and your soon to be husband. That doesn’t mean that will be the same outcome for you and his ex wife. Deal with it. Be an adult and say not everything has to be peaches and cream. If she truly doesn’t want to consort with you, just say fine. I will treat her children like my own and be a mother figure to them. That’s all your job will require. Now, if your fiancé doesn’t want the two of you to meet trust his judgment call. You seem to have a hard time with trust so I’m not sure how you will accomplish that. Trust that he knows what he’s talking about when he says she doesn’t want to meet you. For all she knows you might be the reason behind her divorce. Back off. Be the adult accept the circumstance and deal with the hand your dealt.

 

On a side note, I just want to give you a heads up. Some older men like to be with younger women that they can manipulate. You’re age group is easy to train in a sense. I take issue with the financial aspect of your relationship. For now, you are nothing to this man. Meaning you don’t have any security if he should die tomorrow. I want you to live your life as an independent woman. Do not depend on this man for a lifestyle you cannot afford. The rent/mortgage is ok but when it comes to him flipping the bill so your kids can have what they want, stop. They have a father and they have you. Explain to your children what is within your budget. Live your life according to your budget. You do not know what tomorrow brings. You are not his wife. Until then be and remain independent.

 

Oh one more thing make sure when you go to the county clerks office, you do it together. Don’t do it by yourself. You carry his ID. Just to make sure he doesn’t forget it. Best wishes.

[jwi71]

I have the ring in my jewelry box. I don't feel comfortable wearing it yet. It bothers my boyfriend but he understands.

 

Why do you feel uncomfortable wearing your fiancee's ring?

I would have expected the exact OPPOSITE reaction.

 

He has met the father of my kids. We all did dinner before he met my kids. Since, we have all been at events. It's all been exactly how my ex and I agreed.

 

Good. Strong believer in this. But I meant them two ALONE - sans you and the kids.

 

I was waiting on divorce until details are worked out because I lose insurance and my ex loses certain tax advantages; We discussed it all with a lawyer. We have an arrangement worked out and the lawyer says with that in mind it will take less than two months once we file it to become finalized.

 

Maybe your stbxh can provide insurance to the kids and you can insure just yourself through your work. I did this - in fact still do until September when the kids will fall under my employer (its better insurance at my job than the ex's). Just a thought.

 

I feel the same about his ex, but if she is refusing and doesn't want to meet, what can I do? I do think he should tell her the seriousness of the relationship if he wants her to make an honest decision.

 

Do you mean you called her and she hung up on you?

Do you mean you sent an email or text and never received a reply?

If so, then send a certified letter to her house. Something terse which basically says you hope to meet to discuss the future, learn some about her (you don't but its nice to say) and most importantly set guidelines, rules and expectations when it comes to HER kids (I would make reference to her "ownership" - don't want her to think you are stealing her kids). Get in front of this and be the good guy (gal) here.... A little bit of effort, niceness and understanding now will pay off huge down the road.

 

Or do you mean that's what your MM said but you yourself never tried?

Because I was referring for you to DIRECTLY call his stbxw. Put up some effort...you WANT to be in front of this as much as possible.

 

Have you and your MM sought out family therapy to help all these kids adjust to this new life? I did this for a few months with my serious GF and we (GF and I) think it was VERY helpful for all.

[fooled once]

Dani it sounds like you are really being conned, and every time you try to further explain, it just gets worse.

 

Your MM seems to have an answer for everything doesn't he? You want to meet his kids. Well you can't because his wife won't allow it. You want to speak with his wife. You can't because his wife doesn't want to speak to you. You want to meet his friends. You can't because he doesn't have any friends where you live. You want to meet his friends from home. You can't because they all moved away. You want to meet his siblings. You can't because he never sees his siblings. You want to meet his mother. You can't because his mother is difficult. Ummm...are you seeing something wrong with this? Does this even sound plausible to you? I'm a true introvert and a bit of a loner by nature and even I have more of a family and social life then your MM does. I mean seriously...he doesn't have a single friend or family member that he visits? Seriously?

 

You say lots of people know that your MM is seperated and getting divorced. Well what people would these be? The ones that you are never allowed to meet, talk to, or even lay eyes on? How would you ever know what his people know if you are never allowed to have contact with them in any way, shape or form? You say no one has called you a hidden mistress. Well that might be because any of the people who might call you that, don't even know you exist. I suspect this is why he won't even call anyone he knows from home in your presence. He wouldn't want them to overhear you in the background and ask who you are.

 

I think fooled once knew that you had never been in the marital home when she asked you if you had been there. I believe it was her way of pointing out that since you haven't you have no way of knowing where he sleeps when he is there. He could tell you he sleeps in the basement or perched in a tree and you have to buy it.

 

I also find the seperation papers suspect. As fooled once said, electronic signatures are not legally binding. He said the agreement has since been modified and changed. Then why couldn't he show the recent agreement? Why did he have to dig up the first ones filed in 2009? that it took months for him to show you? I say either he completely faked the papers, or he and his wife did draw up papers at one time but never followed through with it.

 

Initially I thought maybe your MM went home maybe once a month to see his kids, but you recently said he goes to see his kids every weekend. So every weekend his wife has him sleeping in her basement? And since he never talks to his family and all of his friends have moved away and his mother is difficult, I guess he must get pretty stir crazy in that basement all by his lonesome self. Odd that he would want to spend every weekend in those circumstances. Even odder that his wife puts up with that after 2 years of being seperated. You said you can talk to him anytime while he is there. So let me ask you, are his family or children ever in the same room with him when he is talking to you? Is he fine with them overhearing his conversations with you? or does he sneak away to talk on the phone to you? Just like he makes sure you are never around when he talks on the phone to his family?

 

You said something along the lines of you just don't feel right or feel like yourself. I think that is your intuition and you should pay attention because there is something definitely off with your situation. I can understand why you want to talk to his wife and personally I feel like you should. I know many will say you have no business contacting his wife and I understand that sentiment. However I think you are both being deceived in some way and the quickest way to find out would be to talk to her.

 

Great post Alexandria. You captured what I was trying to say!

 

The only practical advice I can give you is what I would give a wife. Start saving money so that you can get out of this. He has given you notice. I would stay away from his wife until you are in a position to support yourself since you may well speed her arrival before you have your ducks ready.

 

You are 25 and he is in his 40's. What the hell do you have in common? If he is in his 40's I am guessing his children are either teenagers or close to being teenagers. Honey, even if you did meet them they will not accept you. At 25 you do not have the tools to be a step parent to children who are probably within 10 to 15 years your junior.

 

Yep. She hasn't even begun life and he is at the midway point. I always find it amusing when young women proclaim they have all the same interests and hobbies as someone almost 20 years older than them.

 

You don't want the DRAMA GONE.

 

This thread is about you trying to attempt to make a situation more uncomfortable because you are unhappy with the circumstance. Period.

 

You can sing it however you want to, it is what it is. When you face the fact that your attempt is to get your outcome then you might start to think more clearly.

 

 

Number three… You can’t go to number three if you haven’t rectified number two. The wife doesn’t have to meet you. I’m sorry… It’s sad but true. She might not even want your name mentioned in her home. It’s great that you have built a relationship with your ex husband and your soon to be husband. That doesn’t mean that will be the same outcome for you and his ex wife. Deal with it. Be an adult and say not everything has to be peaches and cream. If she truly doesn’t want to consort with you, just say fine. I will treat her children like my own and be a mother figure to them. That’s all your job will require. Now, if your fiancé doesn’t want the two of you to meet trust his judgment call. You seem to have a hard time with trust so I’m not sure how you will accomplish that. Trust that he knows what he’s talking about when he says she doesn’t want to meet you. For all she knows you might be the reason behind her divorce. Back off. Be the adult accept the circumstance and deal with the hand your dealt.

 

On a side note, I just want to give you a heads up. Some older men like to be with younger women that they can manipulate. You’re age group is easy to train in a sense. I take issue with the financial aspect of your relationship. For now, you are nothing to this man. Meaning you don’t have any security if he should die tomorrow. I want you to live your life as an independent woman. Do not depend on this man for a lifestyle you cannot afford. The rent/mortgage is ok but when it comes to him flipping the bill so your kids can have what they want, stop. They have a father and they have you. Explain to your children what is within your budget. Live your life according to your budget. You do not know what tomorrow brings. You are not his wife. Until then be and remain independent.

 

Oh one more thing make sure when you go to the county clerks office, you do it together. Don’t do it by yourself. You carry his ID. Just to make sure he doesn’t forget it. Best wishes.

 

Yep, Yep, Yep.

 

And FYI - My ex h is remarried and his wife is his wife. She is not a mother to my son. I am his mother. He doesn't need a second one. I would put her in her place if she ever thought she was going to dictate to me how my son would be raised or what he should and shouldn't know. And as a stepmom, it isn't my job to raise my H's kids with his ex wife. I care about them; but THEY are the parents; not me. They get to decide what they are going to do with them My H may be okay with me discussing my opinion with things with him; but I would never presume to tell her how things were going to be. Even if you marry this guy, if he ever divorces, you are not the kids mom.

 

And like someone else said, she never ever has to speak to you or lay eyes on you. You are nothing to her. Even if he is truly legally separated, she never has to acknowledge you. Just because you are buddies with your STBex doesn't mean that other couples divorcing are.

 

So if things are all settled with the assets, why isn't there a divorce? Why the wait another 5 months? I mean, they have been separated for 2 years; why the delay? Have him show you recent bills from the lawyers office handling the divorce. And yes, buy your own ticket to his hometown and go to the county clerks office and see if the papers have been filed with the court. They should have a court # on them. If it truly is just a matter of the waiting period, they would be on file. And he would have a current copy, not a 2009 copy that isn't even accurate. So is the court action at the end of the year or is he allowed to "file" at the end of the year? Search divorce laws/action for the state in which he and his wife live - they will explain the details of filing for a real divorce/separation. How much is he paying in C/S each month? I am guessing his wife is receiving alimony too, since she doesn't work. How much does he send her for that? If neither of these things are happening, then there ya go, there is no separation.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy it. YOU don't buy it. You aren't engaged; he isn't your fiance. Heck, both of you are still LEGALLY married to others. You are using your ex for insurance (which I don't understand - he can cover his kids and you get insurance through your employer). Not sure how he is benefitting with tax credits....that sounds very strange. You can give him the kids as deductions without being married.

 

What a huge mess. I can't believe you haven't questioned his 'separation' all this time. I get why you are happy to accept his financial help, but I also agree that you need to stop. Kids don't have to have everything. Your ex and you are responsible for your kids; not the MM you are seeing. Pull your kids from activities if you can't afford it. At least you are finally opening your eyes to this whole "separated" thing.

[WhatDaniKnows]

How about the elephant in the room?

 

Why would a 25 year old woman want a relationship with a man 18 years older?

 

The impression I get is thaT THIS MAN IS HIDING SOMETHING.

 

I don't get the big fuss over the age difference. It's not that I want a relationship with a man 18 years older; I want a relationship with a man who happens to be 18 years older. He is a wonderful man.

Besides, my parents had the exact same age difference. They were married for over 20 years until my mother (the younger partner, by the way) passed away, and my father still loves her very much.

 

Hobbies, yes, we have the same hobbies. Why would that be funny? Can 43 year old men not run, read, watch the Discovery/History channels, etc? Those are my hobbies (outside of being a mother). I haven't even begun my life? I have TWO children. They are beginning their lives. You know, almost all my friends are 10-20 years older than me, as well. Do they have ulterior motives and do we have nothing in common?

 

 

Whether there is something else to be concerned about: obviously, I came here expressing doubts. Still not certainties. Just doubts. If you knew him, it wouldn't be such certainties, either. In every aspect, he is a man with integrity and conviction. It is part of why I love him. The situation has made me falter, though, and I am here.

 

 

As to whoever keeps having a problem with my ex and I still being married. I do not have a problem with that. We know we are not ever getting back together. As to insurance through my employer, no. I am a personal trainer and independently employed. If I were to take these skills into the marketplace, many gyms still do not provide much in the way of benefits. Whether you agree with this or not, it is neither here nor there. (I am not very interested in switching my field of work, and have no a college degree. I am not giving up a lot of opportunity elsewhere.)

 

I thank everyone who responded. The suggestions of how to get to the bottom of this, and the opinions on whether to contact are very helpful. Perhaps I will show my boyfriend these replies and see how he responds, as it appears to not only be me and insecurity unsure about all of this. I just wanted to reiterate my thanks, however. I have felt a little attacked when reading some of these posts, and I suspect defensiveness comes off as if I am not listening to or thankful for the replies. That is not the case.

Edited July 10, 2011 by WhatDaniKnows

[TurboGirl]

Perhaps I will show my boyfriend these replies and see how he responds, as it appears to not only be me and insecurity unsure about all of this. I just wanted to reiterate my thanks, however. I have felt a little attacked when reading some of these posts, and I suspect defensiveness comes off as if I am not listening to or thankful for the replies. That is not the case.

 

GREAT IDEA! Show the person who has given you the very reason to come here to this forum in the first place, the replies that we have all given you.

 

DUH. Seriously. Think for yourself and make your own decision about whether or not to contact your MM's Wife. What do you think he is going to say/do Dani? Sweet talk you and more blah blah blah.

 

You have to make your own decisions and not believe every word out of a man's mouth. Part of being an adult and taking responsibility for your own life and the path you choose to follow.

[alexandria35]

From your first post:

 

There is also a financial impact in that I cannot afford this lease without him, cannot afford many of my childrens activities without him, and so on. I have made choices in this past year as a couple with relatively high income, not as a single mom with very limited income. This does not matter of course if I am being lied to and being used to lie to another woman, but short of that, it is a consideration.

 

 

You know, I think I have changed my stance on this one. Given what I quoted above and given your last response, I think you should stop questioning your MM and just suck it up. Why? Because you are obviously in need of a man to take care of you. Right now you and your children are dependant on your MM and your exH and since you have said that you have no plan to better your own financial situation I guess you better not rock the boat right? Gosh you better hope your MM doesn't leave you or your exH doesn't divorce you because then what would you do? I guess you would have to quickly find another guy to pick up your slack.

 

Also why bother bugging your MM about his divorce when you yourself are unwilling to divorce? Since you can stay married, why can't he? You don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to demanding that he divorce. You may think you do but actually who's to say that your reasons for not divorcing are any more valid than his. Who cares if he's boinking his wife when he goes home? Who cares if he is lying to you or lying to his wife? You and your children need his paycheck, so probably best if you just put any unpleasant thoughts of his marital relationship out of your pretty little head and just enjoy what he has to offer. No point in contacting his wife. She isn't going to pay your bills or buy your insurance. You have decided to rely on men to take care of you and your children so if your bf is lying to you, suck it up.

[WhatDaniKnows]

GREAT IDEA! Show the person who has given you the very reason to come here to this forum in the first place, the replies that we have all given you.

 

DUH. Seriously. Think for yourself and make your own decision about whether or not to contact your MM's Wife. What do you think he is going to say/do Dani? Sweet talk you and more blah blah blah.

 

You have to make your own decisions and not believe every word out of a man's mouth. Part of being an adult and taking responsibility for your own life and the path you choose to follow.

 

He already knows I have been considering contacting his ex. He told me he preferred I not do that, and let him handle her, but to do what I need to do. Again, that he wished I trusted him because he's never given me a reason not to. I don't lie to him. He already knows I'm posting somewhere to ask about what my thoughts have been, too.

 

What would seeing the replies hurt? That's an honest question.

 

Asking opinions, and telling him, does not mean I don't make my own decision. Just as I'm not beholden to what is said here, I'm not beholden to what he says.

 

I know I want :

1. To stop feeling like a secret

2. To only ever in my life be involved with an available man

3. To ease the process with his kids to limit any problems as much as possible given the circumstances.

 

I will make my decisions based on that. Of course, his feelings matter because I love him. The opinions and thoughts here matter because I asked for them to help me define how to resolve my doubts and recognize potential problems in this situation.

[WhatDaniKnows]

From your first post:

 

 

 

You know, I think I have changed my stance on this one. Given what I quoted above and given your last response, I think you should stop questioning your MM and just suck it up. Why? Because you are obviously in need of a man to take care of you. Right now you and your children are dependant on your MM and your exH and since you have said that you have no plan to better your own financial situation I guess you better not rock the boat right? Gosh you better hope your MM doesn't leave you or your exH doesn't divorce you because then what would you do? I guess you would have to quickly find another guy to pick up your slack.

 

Also why bother bugging your MM about his divorce when you yourself are unwilling to divorce? Since you can stay married, why can't he? You don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to demanding that he divorce. You may think you do but actually who's to say that your reasons for not divorcing are any more valid than his. Who cares if he's boinking his wife when he goes home? Who cares if he is lying to you or lying to his wife? You and your children need his paycheck, so probably best if you just put any unpleasant thoughts of his marital relationship out of your pretty little head and just enjoy what he has to offer. No point in contacting his wife. She isn't going to pay your bills or buy your insurance. You have decided to rely on men to take care of you and your children so if your bf is lying to you, suck it up.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I don't have a problem with my financial situation other than certain decisions made with a different financial status in mind. If you and your husband are making an income and he surprisingly loses his job, do you not have to readjust things? Do you not make financial decisions based on a partnership if that's where the relationship is stated?

 

I am willing to get a divorce. I have everything ready for a divorce, but that's not the timing we have decided. If he were to ask me to get a divorce because it was bothering him, I would get a divorce. It just doesn't make financial sense.

 

My ex gives me child support. He does not support me. Should I not accept the child support that he is legally and morally bound to?

 

And yes, him lying to me would be a problem. I would not be involved in that. I'd rather have nothing than be a part of betraying someone.

 

This post represents nothing I have said.

 

And I am not "demanding he divorce" in any case. I'm demanding honesty. He knows and has agreed to how things are now. He told me long ago he has FILED for divorce. His process takes longer than mine because they weren't able to sit down and come to an agreement an division of all assets, and because the state he lived in has different divorce laws than the state my ex and I live in.

 

Not better my financial situation? In any case, how do I do that overnight? Get that mail order college degree? As I mentioned, even if I switched careers I would not have significantly better options as things stand.

 

Seriously.

Edited July 10, 2011 by WhatDaniKnows
Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace.

[alexandria35]

What the hell are you talking about? I don't have a problem with my financial situation other than certain decisions made with a different financial status in mind. If you and your husband are making an income and he surprisingly loses his job, do you not have to readjust things? Do you not make financial decisions based on a partnership if that's where the relationship is stated?

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? I raised my kids as a single parent and no I wouldn't have refused child support, but I didn't get any. Yes I have had to readjust things in my life due to unforseen changes to finances.

 

How is what I said not relevant to what you have told us? You stated that you cannot afford your rent, your kids activites, your insurance etc without your exh and your MM. Then later you stated that you have no plans to better your own finances. One can only conclude from this, that your plan is to rely on men to provide for you and your children. Of course your husband should pay child support and you don't have to stay married to him to get it. I'm not sure why you have to stay married to him for insurance. What kind of insurance are you talking about? As far as I know a man can continue to have his children on his heath insurance even if he is no longer with the mother.

 

Once when my kids were young, I made the grave mistake of moving in with my bf at the time. I gave up our cute subsidized townhouse that was located right on a beautiful park to move into a house with my bf that I couldn't afford on my own. At the same time I switched to a job that I really enjoyed but paid crap, so for the first time ever I was basically dependent on a man to help me pay my bills and pay for my children. Well this guy changed almost as soon as I moved in with him. He went from being a closet alcholic to a full blown open alcoholic almost over night and because of my poor choices I couldn't get away from him. That was the worst time of my entire adult life. I became so depressed that my weight dropped to 88 pounds, I was mentally and emotionally checked out, my kids lost me for a while because while I was physically present, I was emotionally closed off from everyone. Finally one day I hit rock bottom and managed to get help to leave.

 

Now I know your situation is nothing like mine as your MM is probably not an irresponsible, crazy alcoholic who is making your life misery, but that is not the point. My point is that from this situation I learned to never let myself or my kids be dependent on a mans paycheque. Either I provided or we went without. We had some pretty lean times but I worked hard and took classes and learned new skills so that I could give myself and my kids everything they needed and I still abide by that to this day as to me it means true freedom.

 

Since you like the lifestyle your MM affords you and your reluctant to change that and since you need your exH to pay your insurance, you're kind of at a standstill aren't you. You can't pay for the things you have by yourself, you don't want to change careers or find more gainful employment and you don't want to give up anything that you already have so you have really limited your options. If you were to divorce your husband, perhaps that show of faith would encourage your MM to do the same, or if you were to end the relationship with your MM telling him to come back once his marriage is really over, that might light a fire under his ass and get him to move on things. But you won't due either because you don't want to give anything up and your not interested in finding a way to provide for yourself. This is why I say you may as well just suck it up.

[WhatDaniKnows]

that might light a fire under his ass and get him to move on things. But you won't due either because you don't want to give anything up and your not interested in finding a way to provide for yourself. This is why I say you may as well just suck it up.

 

Get a move on what things? If all he is telling me is true, he is not dragging his feet. If it's timing on a piece of paper not representative to the relationship agreed upon by the parties involved, I am not so concerned.

 

How am I not interested in providing for myself? Ugh. There is not this mystical more money I can make by some job I am not taking. I am growing a business here. Insurance is expensive, and there is no point in making it more expensive when this is not hurting anything and it is something my ex, our lawyer, my boyfriend, and myself has concluded is the best option until the official divorce is needed for legal reasons. Paper does not make a marriage. It also does not mean I am leaching. I also can not make leases and contracts disappear. They expire, and that is about it. It's not about not wanting to cancel cable or to skip getting my nails done.

 

I will not be responding to anymore of this sort of comment. We are obviously at an impasse here, and we are not making any progress in this discussion. We are having an argument instead of a discussion, and that benefits neither of us.

[alexandria35]

you

Get a move on what things? If all he is telling me is true, he is not dragging his feet. If it's timing on a piece of paper not representative to the relationship agreed upon by the parties involved, I am not so concerned.

 

How am I not interested in providing for myself? Ugh. There is not this mystical more money I can make by some job I am not taking. I am growing a business here. Insurance is expensive, and there is no point in making it more expensive when this is not hurting anything and it is something my ex, our lawyer, my boyfriend, and myself has concluded is the best option until the official divorce is needed for legal reasons. Paper does not make a marriage. It also does not mean I am leaching. I also can not make leases and contracts disappear. They expire, and that is about it. It's not about not wanting to cancel cable or to skip getting my nails done.

 

I will not be responding to anymore of this sort of comment. We are obviously at an impasse here, and we are not making any progress in this discussion. We are having an argument instead of a discussion, and that benefits neither of us.

 

Well you are right. Maybe I'm doing a poor job of communicating what I mean or maybe we are just have entirely different outlooks. Either way, I am not interested in having an argument either.

 

I will say that spending almost every weekend living in the marital home and making sure you are being kept seperate from his other life is not conducive to getting a divorce and marrying you. As long as this is going on I would say he is most definitely dragging his feet. Actually, dragging his feet is likely the best case scenario here, as I suspect there is much more to the situation than you know. What if your ex wanted to spend every weekend living at your place to see your kids? Would that be acceptable to you? Would it be acceptable to your MM? If you were having a hard time accepting the divorce from your husband, would having him come home and live with you every weekend help you to accept it or would it hinder your acceptance? Even if every single thing your MM has told you is true, he is still definitely dragging his feet.

 

He is planning to marry you next year but he won't introduce you to his kids. He won't even tell them or his wife that he is engaged. How does that work? Will you go from being his secret girlfriend to being his secret wife? He has another apartment besides the one he shares with you. Why can't he ever have his kids there? If he and his wife are getting divorced than surely they have some legal agreement regarding visitation and shared custody. She cannot refuse to let him have his children visit him at his place.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't understand all this elusive undercover bull****? I think his double life is not sitting well with you either and that is what brought you here in the first place. And now I have gone full circle because I think the only way for you to put a stop to this is for you to be the one to take action, by either divorcing your husband and telling your MM that you expect him to do the same or your relationship is over, or by simply walking away from the MM and telling him that he can find you once he has truly ended his marriage. I know you won't do either, so I'm not sure that there is anything you can do besides continuing on as you have been and crossing your fingers and hoping that his actions will someday match his words.

[MissBee]

What the hell are you talking about? I raised my kids as a single parent and no I wouldn't have refused child support, but I didn't get any. Yes I have had to readjust things in my life due to unforseen changes to finances.

 

How is what I said not relevant to what you have told us? You stated that you cannot afford your rent, your kids activites, your insurance etc without your exh and your MM. Then later you stated that you have no plans to better your own finances. One can only conclude from this, that your plan is to rely on men to provide for you and your children. Of course your husband should pay child support and you don't have to stay married to him to get it. I'm not sure why you have to stay married to him for insurance. What kind of insurance are you talking about? As far as I know a man can continue to have his children on his heath insurance even if he is no longer with the mother.

 

Once when my kids were young, I made the grave mistake of moving in with my bf at the time. I gave up our cute subsidized townhouse that was located right on a beautiful park to move into a house with my bf that I couldn't afford on my own. At the same time I switched to a job that I really enjoyed but paid crap, so for the first time ever I was basically dependent on a man to help me pay my bills and pay for my children. Well this guy changed almost as soon as I moved in with him. He went from being a closet alcholic to a full blown open alcoholic almost over night and because of my poor choices I couldn't get away from him. That was the worst time of my entire adult life. I became so depressed that my weight dropped to 88 pounds, I was mentally and emotionally checked out, my kids lost me for a while because while I was physically present, I was emotionally closed off from everyone. Finally one day I hit rock bottom and managed to get help to leave.

 

Now I know your situation is nothing like mine as your MM is probably not an irresponsible, crazy alcoholic who is making your life misery, but that is not the point. My point is that from this situation I learned to never let myself or my kids be dependent on a mans paycheque. Either I provided or we went without. We had some pretty lean times but I worked hard and took classes and learned new skills so that I could give myself and my kids everything they needed and I still abide by that to this day as to me it means true freedom.

 

Since you like the lifestyle your MM affords you and your reluctant to change that and since you need your exH to pay your insurance, you're kind of at a standstill aren't you. You can't pay for the things you have by yourself, you don't want to change careers or find more gainful employment and you don't want to give up anything that you already have so you have really limited your options. If you were to divorce your husband, perhaps that show of faith would encourage your MM to do the same, or if you were to end the relationship with your MM telling him to come back once his marriage is really over, that might light a fire under his ass and get him to move on things. But you won't due either because you don't want to give anything up and your not interested in finding a way to provide for yourself. This is why I say you may as well just suck it up.

 

Excellent post!

 

I share the same sentiments.

[Emme]

Alexandria35, Preach! Let the church say amen!

 

Dani, try for a moment and step outside the box. Just for 1 minute. We are not attacking you we are just trying to help by giving you another viewpoint. *sigh* I hope our help comes across more than aggression... but like I said before.

 

The whole finance issue … You are a stuck woman by choice. It is your choice.

 

It's time for you to make some tough choices. Don't be scared. Just dive in. Follow the outline that I gave you... 3 steps to happiness. Let us know what happens when you get back from the county clerks office. I'll be praying for you.

[fooled once]

He already knows I have been considering contacting his ex. He told me he preferred I not do that, and let him handle her, but to do what I need to do. Again, that he wished I trusted him because he's never given me a reason not to. I don't lie to him. He already knows I'm posting somewhere to ask about what my thoughts have been, too.

 

What would seeing the replies hurt? That's an honest question.

 

Asking opinions, and telling him, does not mean I don't make my own decision. Just as I'm not beholden to what is said here, I'm not beholden to what he says.

 

I know I want :

1. To stop feeling like a secret

2. To only ever in my life be involved with an available man

3. To ease the process with his kids to limit any problems as much as possible given the circumstances.

 

I will make my decisions based on that. Of course, his feelings matter because I love him. The opinions and thoughts here matter because I asked for them to help me define how to resolve my doubts and recognize potential problems in this situation.

 

1. You are a secret and have been for how long? A year or two? Why? Why is he NOT introducing you to anyone in his family? If he really was separated, he would introduce you. BUT in all this time, he has never done that. RED FLAG

 

2. You are involved with an UNavailable man. He is NOT divorced; and neither are you. You two aren't engaged because married people cannot be engaged to others. I wouldn't even call him your boyfriend; beause married people don't have boyfriends/girlfriends. You two are lovers in an affair.

 

3. Ease problems with his kids? How is that your responsibility? You are not their mother. Worry about your kids, when they are told how you were with daddy prior to daddy and mommy divorcing. Worry about the impression you are giving his kids..if you ever meet them. You sure seem to think he has talked to his wife about you. Um..if that were true, the kids would KNOW about you because she would have told them. They would have asked him about you. RED FLAG

 

So you stay legally married to have health insurance. Why not get your own policy? Are you expecting to go from husbands policy to MM's policy? Even in some cases, the divorced person who carries insurance gives the uninsured person xx amount of time to get insurance. My H did this with his ex wife - she had until 6 months after the divorce to get her own policy. Your husband can carry his kids forever, since you don't have a job that has insurance. That will give him the 'credit' on child support.

 

Get a move on what things? If all he is telling me is true, he is not dragging his feet. If it's timing on a piece of paper not representative to the relationship agreed upon by the parties involved, I am not so concerned.

 

How am I not interested in providing for myself? Ugh. There is not this mystical more money I can make by some job I am not taking. I am growing a business here. Insurance is expensive, and there is no point in making it more expensive when this is not hurting anything and it is something my ex, our lawyer, my boyfriend, and myself has concluded is the best option until the official divorce is needed for legal reasons. Paper does not make a marriage. It also does not mean I am leaching. I also can not make leases and contracts disappear. They expire, and that is about it. It's not about not wanting to cancel cable or to skip getting my nails done.

 

I will not be responding to anymore of this sort of comment. We are obviously at an impasse here, and we are not making any progress in this discussion. We are having an argument instead of a discussion, and that benefits neither of us.

 

Get a move on divorcing. He has papers dated 2009 - 2 years ago. If he had any inclination to actually get divorced, the papers just need updating and to be filed. But he hasn't done that .... yet you claim he had made changes to the papers, yet he has no copy of that? Come on, this is elementary. He could have had a copy in his hands within hours - one call to his lawyer. But he took MONTHS to dig out 2 year old papers. RED FLAG.

 

No one is attacking you or being nasty. We are trying to wake you up to the baloney you have been told. You really didn't buy it all anyway or else you wouldn't be here.

 

You have been kept a secret for 2 years. No one (including his wife) knows about you. He isn't moving towards a divorce. He keeps his kids totally separate from you, even after he 'proposed' to you. He is doing what YOU need him to do so you will buy his garbage. He figures throwing a ring at you will shush you up about the divorce. You do realize men have been doing this kind of crap for years - having secret families? You believe he goes to visit his kids (and his wife) every weekend at the marital home and sleeps in the basement. You really do believe this.

 

If his wife truly KNEW about you, there is no way she would want him sleeping in her house. NOT even remotely. So again, RED FLAG.

 

You found yourself a good liar, manipulator and someone who can't spell loyalty, honesty or respect. You have moved in with a MM, put him in your children's lives and have a joint checking account (and I can see why since he has money and you don't have nearly as much..I get wanting nice things; but taking 'family' money from a MM is a bad, bad idea). I was a single mom for many years; and it was hard. I robbed Peter to pay Paul constantly; but there was no way I would be dependent financially on anyone - especially not a MM.

 

You may call marriage a piece of paper; but that is something you really want with this MM. As Alexandria said, just shush and don't rock the boat. You are living with a MM, he is paying the rent and extra's for your kids and you have a decent life. To call the wife and out him to her would upset that apple cart. He will pull his money away and leave you in a place you can't afford. Your kids would be affected. So either embrace being the secret woman or get out. Those really are your only 2 choices, iMHO.

 

I hope you can come to some resolution that is peaceful for you.

[TurboGirl]

Seriously Dani, no one here is "attacking" just trying to help by shedding light on things that maybe you have not thought of. With age comes experience, you know? :bunny:

 

Ok your MM says he wants to resolve this, and give you the answers you seek. Let's see how long it takes, and if you actually get the answers.

 

I would think the very fact that you mentioned to him that you are contemplating contacting his soon to be ex wife, that would set him on his heels and get the ball rolling. He says he hasn't "done anything" to cause you to mistrust him. Hmmmmmm well, you must have a suspicion or you would not be here. When a man LOVES A WOMAN he will move heaven & earth to make her happy. Not drag his feet.

 

Fooded Once, you make some excellent points.

 

Dani, you stated in your response to me that "his feelings matter because I love him" is he giving you the same consideration? I certainly don't see it... again, if he was giving you the proof you desire and introducing you to his kids, you wouldn't be here.

 

Cold hard truth really hurts. I know this. These posts are not to you out of aggression but come from people who have been there done that and they are trying to give you some insight to SAVE YOU THE HEARTBREAK.

 

Let us know what happens, I hope for the best possible outcome for you and that things work out as you are hoping for.

[WhatDaniKnows]

My current thoughts of steps here are wait to here what the plans are regarding me going to meet his family. I should know within the next day or two. Next step depends whether it is sooner or later.

 

Also sitting down with boyfriend for an "expectations" chat in regards to timing for certain things.

 

I do have a short letter drafted and I'm contemplating whether to send it. I am weighing the potential problems (shoving anything in her face and hurting her if she doesn't want to hear from me) verse the potential benefits (she might decide she does want to open some communication or have some questions answered, and it would facilitate that to have direct lines) currently. I am heartened that he is okay with me contacting her, even if he prefers I don't.

Edited July 11, 2011 by WhatDaniKnows

[Emme]

My current thoughts of steps here are wait to here what the plans are regarding me going to meet his family. I should know within the next day or two. Next step depends whether it is sooner or later.

 

Also sitting down with boyfriend for an "expectations" chat in regards to timing for certain things.

 

I do have a short letter drafted and I'm contemplating whether to send it. I am weighing the potential problems (shoving anything in her face and hurting her if she doesn't want to hear from me) verse the potential benefits (she might decide she does want to open some communication or have some questions answered, and it would facilitate that to have direct lines) currently. I am heartened that he is okay with me contacting her, even if he prefers I don't.

 

So you have decided to take the route of more DRAMA in your life. Aiming to not resolve the issue between the two people who are actually in your relationship will end in you getting your feelings hurt. Be prepared when your feelings get hurt, don't worry just brush yourself off and pick yourself up. Best wishes.