Average age/height/weight/size of posters

[oaks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

Yes, I was thinking yesterday that this thread was getting a bit long, so it was inevitable really.

[nyc_guy2003]

Yes, I was thinking yesterday that this thread was getting a bit long, so it was inevitable really.

 

Ha, what's even funnier is that Godwin's Law states that the invokation of Hitler tends to occur when it makes the least sense but when the writer has run out of tangible arguments, which is kind of what happened here.

[Chocolat]

You can find my argument ridiculous and disgusting if you wish but I happen to find any kind of bigotry as disgusting as Hitler's. It's just the narrow end of the wedge.

 

Your argument isn't "disgusting"; it's just nonsensical. It's an ad hominem fallacy.

 

If I have a bias against or for a particular attribute -- let's say, redheads -- that just means I am a person with a bias. We all have then, whether it's redheads, or smokers, or divorcés, or people with kids, or conservatives, or people who don't like pets, or whatever.

 

To equate the desire for an "attractive" partner (which is undefinable, since what's attractive to one person won't necessarily be what's attractive to another) with Hitlerian tendencies is to minimize the evil that Hitler represents. The decision not to date anyone with X characteristic is nowhere on a par with the atrocities committed by Hitler. Nor does the slippery slope argument work here, where you next suggest that a dislike of X is just one step away from wishing to put to death anyone who has this characteristic.

[nyc_guy2003]

Your argument isn't "disgusting"; it's just nonsensical. It's an ad hominem fallacy.

 

If I have a bias against or for a particular attribute -- let's say, redheads -- that just means I am a person with a bias. We all have then, whether it's redheads, or smokers, or divorcés, or people with kids, or conservatives, or people who don't like pets, or whatever.

 

To equate the desire for an "attractive" partner (which is undefinable, since what's attractive to one person won't necessarily be what's attractive to another) with Hitlerian tendencies is to minimize the evil that Hitler represents. The decision not to date anyone with X characteristic is nowhere on a par with the atrocities committed by Hitler. Nor does the slippery slope argument work here, where you next suggest that a dislike of X is just one step away from wishing to put to death anyone who has this characteristic.

 

Very eloquent. I was trying to get at the same points since I knew there was definitely something very disturbing about her thought process, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until you spelled it out here.

[snug.bunny]

Well, I don't think we really have to worry about these "nightclubs" committing acts of genocide any time soon.

[Feelsgoodman]

You can find my argument ridiculous and disgusting if you wish but I happen to find any kind of bigotry as disgusting as Hitler's. It's just the narrow end of the wedge.

Yeah, I hate those terrible, bigoted people who are attracted to physical beauty. If we could only find a way to get rid of them all...

[rafallus]

As for "attracted" and "beauty", it's complicated.

 

There are girls, whom I find aesthetically flawless, but I'm not as sexually attracted to them, as I am to some girls with (sometimes significant) aesthetic flaws.

[nyc_guy2003]

Yeah, I hate those terrible, bigoted people who are attracted to physical beauty. If we could only find a way to get rid of them all...

 

I think Harvard's bigoted because they only admit smart people. It is discriminatory against stupid people. Come to think of it, Hitler hated stupid people. Harvard must be a Nazi school.

[melle]

40, 5' 1.75", 111.

 

People who tell you to stop losing weight because you "look too thin" are insecure women who don't want you be fitter than they are.

 

To be honest I get bombarded daily by an unbelievable amount of this unsolicited behavior, both to my face and behind my back.

 

This type of classless behavior is like a 'dirty little secret' that no one wants to admit happens. Most men have no comprehension that it goes on, or at least no idea the extent of it.

 

I'm fit and look fit, and nowhere near 'underweight' according any chart or doctor...and a whole lot of women have made it crystal clear to me that they would love for me to feel bad about that, or better yet, stop that!

[melle]

The most popular nightclubs in Manhattan tend to have unofficial height and weight requirements. I've seen and heard many stories when women under xxx height or over xxx weight are rejected at the door under the excuse that the clubs are hosting "private parties", but then letting in other taller, more attractive women. That's the reason I always ask my wife to wear heels when we go out to clubs since she's only 5'8".

 

Understandable they wouldn't let in women who are widely thought to be unattractive such as, Rachel Bilson, Elisha Cuthbert, Alyssa Milano, Salma Hayek, Eva Longoria, Dani or Kylie Minogue, Kristen Bell, Reese Witherspoon, Hayden Panetierre, Natalie Portman, Mila Kunis, Hillary Duff, Shakira, Jada Pinkett Smith....

[123321]

Understandable they wouldn't let in women who are widely thought to be unattractive such as, Rachel Bilson, Elisha Cuthbert, Alyssa Milano, Salma Hayek, Eva Longoria, Dani or Kylie Minogue, Kristen Bell, Reese Witherspoon, Hayden Panetierre, Natalie Portman, Mila Kunis, Hillary Duff, Shakira, Jada Pinkett Smith....

 

Yeah, my GF is quite petite, sometimes there's no reason to it.

[Taramere]

Understandable they wouldn't let in women who are widely thought to be unattractive such as, Rachel Bilson, Elisha Cuthbert, Alyssa Milano, Salma Hayek, Eva Longoria, Dani or Kylie Minogue, Kristen Bell, Reese Witherspoon, Hayden Panetierre, Natalie Portman, Mila Kunis, Hillary Duff, Shakira, Jada Pinkett Smith....

 

Not to mention Beyonce, Scarlett Johansson and Megan Fox. It's a good thing for all these ladies that music and Hollywood execs aren't as fussy and discriminatory as NYC nightclub bouncers apparently are.

[Emilia]

The most popular nightclubs in Manhattan tend to have unofficial height and weight requirements. I've seen and heard many stories when women under xxx height or over xxx weight are rejected at the door under the excuse that the clubs are hosting "private parties", but then letting in other taller, more attractive women. That's the reason I always ask my wife to wear heels when we go out to clubs since she's only 5'8".

 

If I was with a man who was aware that certain clubs had a policy like that I would expect him not to take to those places, rather than ask me to compete with other women.

 

I'm sure London is full of clubs too where the doormen are ultra selective and I would expect my man to look out for me and not expose me to potential rejection like that. I would do the same for him too. It's only decent

[Taramere]

I did wonder, when I read that post about the height rule unofficially applied by some NYC clubs, whether it's a form of indirect discrimination against Hispanics who do tend, on average, to be shorter. Here's an article about a club called Greenhouse who were sued for racial discrimination on account of their door policy.

 

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-10-19/news/17936252_1_greenhouse-messages-black-guests

 

Unofficial policies to exclude people who look a certain way could easily have the net effect of excluding certain races from the premises. "No fatties"...well, I guess you could say that being overweight is usually a choice somebody makes rather than something connected to the unalterable essence of who they are. Race, gender and skin colour...generally we abhor the notion of any business discriminating against employees or customers on these grounds. If the only women allowed into a club are exceptionally tall ones, or transvestites, that sounds pretty discriminatory to me. Unless, I suppose, it's specifically touted as a gay club.

 

Otherwise, what would be the difference between deciding that beyond a certain shade a person's skin colour renders them "unacceptable" and deciding that below a certain height a person becomes unacceptable? People are entitled to have their personal preferences as regards height, skin colour etc....but when a business applies those discriminatory policies and is supported in doing so by people who meet its requirements (white enough, tall enough) then it's a sitting duck for a legal action. Deservedly so.

[Emilia]

I know a lot of 'cooler' clubs in Central London don't like letting people of oriental origin in. I have heard that they book under European names to get on the guest list because under a Chinese name they wouldn't be accepted. I suspect it's largely because they don't consume enough alcohol and at the same time put other races off these places because they are not seen as 'fun'

[oaks]

I know a lot of 'cooler' clubs in Central London don't like letting people of oriental origin in. I have heard that they book under European names to get on the guest list because under a Chinese name they wouldn't be accepted. I suspect it's largely because they don't consume enough alcohol and at the same time put other races off these places because they are not seen as 'fun'

 

Wow! I don't tend to go to clubs, but if I end up dating someone who wants to then this would make me think twice about where to go!

[nyc_guy2003]

If I was with a man who was aware that certain clubs had a policy like that I would expect him not to take to those places, rather than ask me to compete with other women.

 

I'm sure London is full of clubs too where the doormen are ultra selective and I would expect my man to look out for me and not expose me to potential rejection like that. I would do the same for him too. It's only decent

 

Actually my wife has no problem getting in anywhere. She is tall, fit, good looking, and dresses well. At 5'10" I'm actually the one who is borderline tall enough for these places, given they all naturally discriminate against men to begin with (funny how none of the women on this board who complain about selectivity mentioned that part).

 

And BTW whoever is invoking the "short celebrity" argument -- don't worry, all A-list celebrities have free reign in these places. It's just common folk like you who are subject to appearance requirements.

[nyc_guy2003]

Hispanics who do tend, on average, to be shorter.

 

That's not a stereotypical generalization or anything.

[tigressA]

[Taramere]

That's not a stereotypical generalization or anything.

 

You're correct in noting that it's not a stereotypical generalisation. It's an observation based on statistical evidence of height variations being associated with geographical location

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

 

and ethnicity

 

http://surveysez.com/joomla/index.php/health/129-average-height.html

[oldguy]

You're correct in noting that it's not a stereotypical generalisation. It's an observation based on statistical evidence of height variations being associated with geographical location

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

 

and ethnicity

 

http://surveysez.com/joomla/index.php/health/129-average-height.html

 

Hmm, I'm not short at 5' 9", I'm just living in the wrong country:D

and I'm not overweight, I'm just too short.

[Taramere]

Hmm, I'm not short at 5' 9", I'm just living in the wrong country:D

and I'm not overweight, I'm just too short.

 

You're just ahead of your time, oldguy. Meet your perfect woman. Futurewoman!

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17997-meet-future-woman-shorter-plumper-more-fertile.html

[cerridwen]

If I was with a man who was aware that certain clubs had a policy like that I would expect him not to take to those places, rather than ask me to compete with other women.

 

I'm sure London is full of clubs too where the doormen are ultra selective and I would expect my man to look out for me and not expose me to potential rejection like that. I would do the same for him too. It's only decent

 

I agree it can be a rough experience on the ego and a particularly unpleasant one for couples if they're denied.

 

Not too long ago, I worked at a popular Manhattan club.

 

I can attest to nyc_guy's claim that height is favored since of only slightly above average height, they made an exception by hiring me (I wore 3 inch heels nightly as a result).

 

On later nights, when walking in, I'd see many couples in line.

If I'd stepped outside one or two hours later, the same couples would often still be there, either shivering in the cold of winter, or fanning themselves in the sticky summer heat.

The hope of the doorman is when denied, the couple will move along to darken someone else's door.

But the more stubborn or hopeful of the couples remained to waste their evening standing on line, bickering as frustration set in, determined to be included even at the cost of a nice evening with their S.O..

It was unfortunate on many levels.

[EasyHeart]

I did wonder, when I read that post about the height rule unofficially applied by some NYC clubs, whether it's a form of indirect discrimination against Hispanics who do tend, on average, to be shorter. Here's an article about a club called Greenhouse who were sued for racial discrimination on account of their door policy.

 

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-10-19/news/17936252_1_greenhouse-messages-black-guests

 

Unofficial policies to exclude people who look a certain way could easily have the net effect of excluding certain races from the premises. "No fatties"...well, I guess you could say that being overweight is usually a choice somebody makes rather than something connected to the unalterable essence of who they are. Race, gender and skin colour...generally we abhor the notion of any business discriminating against employees or customers on these grounds. If the only women allowed into a club are exceptionally tall ones, or transvestites, that sounds pretty discriminatory to me. Unless, I suppose, it's specifically touted as a gay club.

 

Otherwise, what would be the difference between deciding that beyond a certain shade a person's skin colour renders them "unacceptable" and deciding that below a certain height a person becomes unacceptable? People are entitled to have their personal preferences as regards height, skin colour etc....but when a business applies those discriminatory policies and is supported in doing so by people who meet its requirements (white enough, tall enough) then it's a sitting duck for a legal action. Deservedly so.

Oh please. They let in attractive people because it's good business. People want to go to clubs with attractive people in them.

 

I admit I don't understand why any club would put a height requirement on women. I don't find tall women very attractive, and I would be surprised if most men do. I can understand a height requirement on men, since many women seem to list "TALL" as their first requirement for a man. My guess is that fat women didn't get into a club and, rather than acknowledge that they are fat and ugly, made up a story about how they weren't "tall" enough to get into the club (because, after all, if they were 7'2" their height and weight would actually be proportionate! )

[cerridwen]

Oh please. They let in attractive people because it's good business. People want to go to clubs with attractive people in them.

I admit I don't understand why any club would put a height requirement on women. I don't find tall women very attractive, and I would be surprised if most men do. I can understand a height requirement on men, since many women seem to list "TALL" as their first requirement for a man. My guess is that fat women didn't get into a club and, rather than acknowledge that they are fat and ugly, made up a story about how they weren't "tall" enough to get into the club (because, after all, if they were 7'2" their height and weight would actually be proportionate! )

 

In a nutshell, models are tall so there's an association between height and beauty.

Height is less common in women and that which is rare or exclusive often has an increased value in this particular arena.