Insanity and denial

[Tech_E]

Debtman as always I am in awe of you. Absolutely, positively in awe. If my wife and I weren't already drowning in debt I'd personally pitch in to help you if I could. You are an example to all the men out there that even if their wives turn into selfish _____'s that you can rise above it.

 

Some day some women will be damned lucky to have you my friend.

 

Continue to update us as things progress.

[debtman]

lol...thanks, Tech_E, I appreciate it. But, my debt is my own and it's going to feel great when I finally get on top of it and know that I took care of it the way I will continue to manage it, by budgeting, planning and focusing on it. Debt never seemed like a big problem to me until it COMPLETELY limited my options at a time when I really needed an option. Any option.

 

I've learned a LOT in the past few years, about finances, about relationships, about priorities and, mostly, about myself.

 

I've come away from this a stronger person and, when I'm ready, will be able to have a much better focus on what I really want from a relationship, and not just take whatever is convenient because I know I can adapt to anything.

 

One thing I can say about the debt though, don't let it get away. Start fixing it NOW. There are a TON of options and things you can do to really manage it and reduce it.

 

I will certainly continue to update as things develop, thanks....

[debtman]

I was out with a friend last night, having a few drinks, and my stbx called so I could say goodnight to the kids. After I talked to them, she got back on the phone and started saying things about how she'll always love me, how much she wishes we could have worked things out, etc. I was a little buzzed and just tried to be very non-committal and diplomatic. Then she hit me with "Do you think we could ever make it work?"

 

After several moments of silence as I tried to figure out the most non-confrontational way to say "NO WAY IN HELL!!" I finally came back with, "Some things are just meant to be the way they are and, while anything is possible, I think some people just don't work out together." She went on to tell me how much she wishes we could work things out and how much she's "grown and learned" since this all started. REALLY?!

 

I restrained myself from saying anything about the fact that just the previous day she and OM had taken the kids to the amusement park all day while I was trying to get some more sideline jobs to help keep up with the bills.

 

Can't imagine where her head is at...unbelievable...

[marqueemoon4]

keep taking the high road.. you the man.

[russell1968]

My Stbxw does the same, whenever she is having problems with her new man she reaches out! I have started too see a pattern.. I believe they start too panic when they think they are loosing control.

 

I don't buy into it anymore

[UnsureinSeattle]

DM, I envy your ability to be non-confrontational and keep sticking to the high road.

 

The best part?

 

It must flummox the hell out of her.

[jaymz]

After several moments of silence as I tried to figure out the most non-confrontational way to say "NO WAY IN HELL!!" I finally came back with, "Some things are just meant to be the way they are and, while anything is possible, I think some people just don't work out together." She went on to tell me how much she wishes we could work things out and how much she's "grown and learned" since this all started. REALLY?!.

 

This is what i am really not looking forward to. I hope my stbxw never ever says stuff like this as I feel i would jump at the chance for reconcilliation.

 

I hold my hat off to you debtman, I know you made the right decision (same as if i told my stbxw where to jump) and you did it with dignity and style.

 

It has been said before but I'll reiterate it now, you have been a great inspiration or many posters and probably countless other lurkers. Thank you, and good luck!

[marqueemoon4]

This is what i am really not looking forward to. I hope my stbxw never ever says stuff like this as I feel i would jump at the chance for reconcilliation.

 

I hold my hat off to you debtman, I know you made the right decision (same as if i told my stbxw where to jump) and you did it with dignity and style.

 

It has been said before but I'll reiterate it now, you have been a great inspiration or many posters and probably countless other lurkers. Thank you, and good luck!

 

I'm lucky.. i'll never have to worry about her trying to reconcile and thats a GOOD THING.

[andyg99]

I restrained myself from saying anything about the fact that just the previous day she and OM had taken the kids to the amusement park all day while I was trying to get some more sideline jobs to help keep up with the bills.

 

Can't imagine where her head is at...unbelievable...

 

great job, and yes, we can't in a million years imagine where their heads are at... letting her go and moving on is the best thing you ever did.

[debtman]

Got an email from her yesterday with some stuff about the kids and, I had thanked her in a previous e-mail for giving me a week of leeway with child support since it was a tight month and I had to wait for my next check to come in and she said that if I "got out from under that mortgage" and moved into a split level or duplex with her than I'd be able to save some money and see the kids a lot more...

 

REALLY!?!

 

Wow...just wow...

 

Gee, you mean, I could have all the headaches of living with/right next to you, without any of the benefits of being married, like intimacy or sex? What an incredibly horrible idea...

 

"Hi new girlfriend, come over to my place...oh, don't mind her, that's just my ex-wife yelling at my kids next door..."

 

Then, she went on to tell me about how she's been harassing her landlord to fix some thing in the house she's renting and how he was asking her if OM was able to fix some of those things to which she told him "No way, that's why I'm paying rent." Just makes me SOOO glad that I'm not the handyman for her anymore...add that to the HUGE list of reasons I would never live next/near her.

 

Uggg...

[Surfer203]

debtman: She just won't let up huh?! Geez.. talk about a nightmare!

[itllgetbetter]

Re Debtman's post #60: on the point of moving into a duplex/split level with your W, I know of a slightly crazier situation: M & W have a kid, get M, realize they don't want to be H & W but want to stay together in house (NOT a duplex or split level) for kid's sake. H begins dating colleague at work who leaves her H and 2 kids for him and spends time at H's house. W's also got a boyfriend. Is this not crazy? As well, before H & W married, H dated another woman at work, they broke up, she had a nervous break down.

[debtman]

Yeah, that IS crazy...what some people can live with...

[robf1971]

I "got out from under that mortgage" and moved into a split level or duplex with her than I'd be able to save some money and see the kids a lot more...

 

REALLY!?!

 

QUOTE]

 

Remember a few months ago that guy predicted the end of the world, and some people believed in it so much they gave him all their money. I think that shows just how crazy people can be.. It really takes all sorts.

[andyg99]

I "got out from under that mortgage" and moved into a split level or duplex with her than I'd be able to save some money and see the kids a lot more...

 

REALLY!?!

 

QUOTE]

 

Remember a few months ago that guy predicted the end of the world, and some people believed in it so much they gave him all their money. I think that shows just how crazy people can be.. It really takes all sorts.

 

people are capable of anything - we need to look at ourselves closer and see why it is we let some of these folks into our lives... even if we were screwed badly by an ex we have to use that as an opportunity to look at ourselves and see why we chose them. Sometimes it's as simple as them finding us at a time of weakness in our lives or it could be that some of us have deeper issues and always pick the "wrong type".

 

Anyway, the world is ending on Oct 3rd - everyone, please feel free to send me all your money!

[debtman]

So, last week she asked if I wanted to go with her and the kids to a big balloon festival over Labor Day that we've gone to every year in the past. I gave her a "Maybe, we'll have to see." and I'm sure I'll either take the kids by myself or, I'll be busy.

 

Then, last night she asked if I wanted to go to the drive-in with her and the kids...ugg...I said I would probably be playing volleyball too late and changed the topic. Can't imagine many things more confusing and uncomfortable than laying in the back of the van with the kids and her all snuggled up watching movies...yikes!

 

Then, a few minutes later, she starts asking me if I think there's any way our relationship/marriage could work...unbelievable. I so wanted to rip into her and ask her if she has ANY idea what she's put the kids and I through, but, I tried to remain calm told her that everyone JUST seems to be adjusting to the way things are and I'm in NO place to think about ANY sort of relationship...with ANYONE. I've got too much going on financially, at home, at work, etc. and don't have time to even think about anything else right now.

 

She told me that I don't have to think about it right now, but she's been reading all these books and has learned so much and made so many changes that she just thinks things might be different now...

 

Must be things aren't going as well with OM as she thought, or he's not the person that can fix all her problems, so now she's looking for someone else to fill that role in her life.

 

Makes me sad that she can't just really spend some time standing on her own, and figuring out what she REALLY wants and what it will take to make her happy on her own.

 

Insanity...

[worldgonewrong]

Debtman, your thread is one among several that I view as "go to" threads.

You are a rock, man.

 

Then, a few minutes later, she starts asking me if I think there's any way our relationship/marriage could work...unbelievable. I so wanted to rip into her and ask her if she has ANY idea what she's put the kids and I through, but, I tried to remain calm told her that everyone JUST seems to be adjusting to the way things are and I'm in NO place to think about ANY sort of relationship...with ANYONE.

 

This is very valuable that you shared this bit, specifically, as I think some of us (me!) wonder how we'd react if this 'fantasy' came true -- i.e. the wayward spouse asking for you back -- and it's good to get a healthy read on this, in terms of how you handled it.

So thank you. I've been wrestling with that fantasy (which is like wrestling with vapor) lately, and I have to say, I believe I'd feel much the way you do.

[jaymz]

Then, a few minutes later, she starts asking me if I think there's any way our relationship/marriage could work...unbelievable. I so wanted to rip into her and ask her if she has ANY idea what she's put the kids and I through, but, I tried to remain calm told her that everyone JUST seems to be adjusting to the way things are and I'm in NO place to think about ANY sort of relationship...with ANYONE. I've got too much going on financially, at home, at work, etc. and don't have time to even think about anything else right now.

 

I would have torn her a second a-hole. I so want to just bang my stbxw's head repeatedly into the wall of reality.

 

Great answer, may steal it if that ever happens to me. lol

 

She told me that I don't have to think about it right now, but she's been reading all these books and has learned so much and made so many changes that she just thinks things might be different now...

 

Wow! I would have asked what books, what has she learnt, where did she find this stuff, what changes?

 

Must be things aren't going as well with OM as she thought, or he's not the person that can fix all her problems, so now she's looking for someone else to fill that role in her life.

 

Setting you up to be fallback guy with breadcrumbs?

 

Makes me sad that she can't just really spend some time standing on her own, and figuring out what she REALLY wants and what it will take to make her happy on her own.

 

People are scared to be on their own, esp when you have kids. I was really not looking forward to being single. I have an empty house, no stuff, no food and no idea how to do anything properly. 6 weeks later and I am cooking basic stuff from scrach, making my own lunches, getting up early to do my exercises to keep evenings free, keep the house tidy, organisig viewings, changing agents as well as spening 12 hours a day at work. Its a juggle but I am doing it, badly...

[jaymz]

Debtman, your thread is one among several that I view as "go to" threads.

You are a rock, man.

 

Seconded!

 

This is very valuable that you shared this bit, specifically, as I think some of us (me!) wonder how we'd react if this 'fantasy' came true -- i.e. the wayward spouse asking for you back -- and it's good to get a healthy read on this, in terms of how you handled it.

So thank you. I've been wrestling with that fantasy (which is like wrestling with vapor) lately, and I have to say, I believe I'd feel much the way you do.

 

Seconded!

 

Your own experience is 5/6 months ahead of me and I have seen my stbxw do pretty much all of yours has done. But I am pretty sure I would keep messing things up rather than deal with things the way you have. When situations crop up I remember what you did and do something similar, it helps keep me sane that I have a "plan" rather than keep winging things - last time I winged it a few days ago and kinda f*cked up! Should have said "ok" rather than "i have no money", I looked a complete d*ck!

[UnsureinSeattle]

You've been SO GOOD about not ripping into her when you've had every right, and your reply was classy.

 

But, I do think you're within any reasonable right to say something along the lines of "I'm not willing to be your second choice/back up/whatever."

[debtman]

wgw & jaymz, so glad to know that my experiences can help others out. I've learned so much here on LS from other people's experiences (including yours) that it's nice to know that sharing is not only helping me, but helping others deal with this situation.

 

wgw, I know had MANY low times, especially in the first few months when I was living with my parents, not seeing my kids every day and not used to going out and doing things since all my old friends were married w/kids. I can't begin to tell you how much better things have gotten and how much happier I am now. The possibilities and potential in my life right now are incredible.

 

And yes, it's hard to keep up with everything and juggle the day-to-day while dealing with the emotional healing and confusion, but, the pay off is huge! Stick to it!

 

If she had come back to me in the first few months, I might not have reacted the way I am now because, at that time, it was scary being thrown back into the single life, but, at this point, there's no way I would ever go back now.

 

UnsureinSeattle, I agree, I certainly have every right to hit her with that, but, I know that all it would do is create animosity and, I've overcome so much in the past 9 months while avoiding animosity, that it's not worth it to "let her have it." At this point, I'm just focusing on putting her off until all the paperwork is signed. After that, I'm going to try to maintain a "friendly" relationship with her for the sake of the kids, but, at some point, I'm going to have to make it clear to her that I will NOT reconcile. All I have to do is look at Andyg99's thread to realize that, no matter how much time has passed, people VERY rarely change and, putting myself back into this situation, which turned out to be one of the most difficult things I've ever gone through, would be a HUGE mistake and would require me to give her MUCH more trust than she ever deserves at this point...and I deserve MUCH better...and, in time, will find it.

 

Thanks!

[andyg99]

UnsureinSeattle, I agree, I certainly have every right to hit her with that, but, I know that all it would do is create animosity and, I've overcome so much in the past 9 months while avoiding animosity, that it's not worth it to "let her have it." At this point, I'm just focusing on putting her off until all the paperwork is signed. After that, I'm going to try to maintain a "friendly" relationship with her for the sake of the kids, but, at some point, I'm going to have to make it clear to her that I will NOT reconcile.

 

Great job in keeping your eye on what is important: the Kids! But I'm curious about one thing, when she asks to do something you don't tell her no, have you ever thought of just telling her in the nicest way possible that doing "family" things are out of the question? I'm just wondering if she is getting your kids hopes up by saying something like "hey, I'll see if daddy wants to come along too!". Maybe if you let her know that the door is closed on reconciling then she won't ask you to do things with her and the kids...

 

I know some here who are early on in the process may be envying you on having the opportunity to get her back but I hope they see your situation as a warning - be careful when they want to come back - it is often NOT GOOD! (as you have already pointed out from my thread)

[debtman]

You're exactly right andy. As a matter of fact, after she presented the idea of meeting at the drive in last night, I got on the phone to talk to my daughter and the first thing she said was "Mommy said you might come to the movies tonight!" and I had to tell her that I wasn't going to.

 

I suppose I should lay down the reality of it instead of avoiding and sidestepping. I'm just trying to be as careful as possible right now until we get the separation agreement signed. We were waiting to do it until the end of the year to save some money, but, I'm now in a position to qualify to re-finance my house and buy her out and I have to have a legal separation agreement in place to do that...so I'm jumping on that. We have both been living up to what we agreed on, but it's NOT actually legal right now and, we all know how quickly things can change in this insanity.

 

...and you are absolutely correct. Her breaching of the subject of reconciliation at all is just a testament to the complete craziness of the entire situation and her inability to take any responsibility at all. She says she's been reading so many self-help and relationship books that she sees some of the things she did wrong, has learned so much, etc. but, all I have to do is go back and read some of the mean, nasty emails she used to send me and look back through my list that I made of things about her that make me insane and irrational.

 

Just makes me realize how much better off I am...

 

Thanks!

[robf1971]

You're exactly right andy. As a matter of fact, after she presented the idea of meeting at the drive in last night, I got on the phone to talk to my daughter and the first thing she said was "Mommy said you might come to the movies tonight!" and I had to tell her that I wasn't going to.

 

I suppose I should lay down the reality of it instead of avoiding and sidestepping. I'm just trying to be as careful as possible right now until we get the separation agreement signed. We were waiting to do it until the end of the year to save some money, but, I'm now in a position to qualify to re-finance my house and buy her out and I have to have a legal separation agreement in place to do that...so I'm jumping on that. We have both been living up to what we agreed on, but it's NOT actually legal right now and, we all know how quickly things can change in this insanity.

 

...and you are absolutely correct. Her breaching of the subject of reconciliation at all is just a testament to the complete craziness of the entire situation and her inability to take any responsibility at all. She says she's been reading so many self-help and relationship books that she sees some of the things she did wrong, has learned so much, etc. but, all I have to do is go back and read some of the mean, nasty emails she used to send me and look back through my list that I made of things about her that make me insane and irrational.

 

Just makes me realize how much better off I am...

 

Thanks!

 

Cripes, if she's like this now, what's she going to be like when you finally meet someone new. Worse still if OM dumps her and you're with someone else? She'll be all over you like the Black Death!!

[Yasuandio]

So, last week she asked if I wanted to go with her and the kids to a big balloon festival over Labor Day that we've gone to every year in the past. I gave her a "Maybe, we'll have to see." and I'm sure I'll either take the kids by myself or, I'll be busy.

 

Then, last night she asked if I wanted to go to the drive-in with her and the kids...ugg...I said I would probably be playing volleyball too late and changed the topic. Can't imagine many things more confusing and uncomfortable than laying in the back of the van with the kids and her all snuggled up watching movies...yikes!

 

Then, a few minutes later, she starts asking me if I think there's any way our relationship/marriage could work...unbelievable. I so wanted to rip into her and ask her if she has ANY idea what she's put the kids and I through, but, I tried to remain calm told her that everyone JUST seems to be adjusting to the way things are and I'm in NO place to think about ANY sort of relationship...with ANYONE. I've got too much going on financially, at home, at work, etc. and don't have time to even think about anything else right now.

 

She told me that I don't have to think about it right now, but she's been reading all these books and has learned so much and made so many changes that she just thinks things might be different now...

 

Must be things aren't going as well with OM as she thought, or he's not the person that can fix all her problems, so now she's looking for someone else to fill that role in her life.

 

Makes me sad that she can't just really spend some time standing on her own, and figuring out what she REALLY wants and what it will take to make her happy on her own.

 

Insanity...

 

As usual, Mr. Debtman, I'm going to take a change and go out on a limb here with a simple question. Could she be pre-menapausal? Just a thought. Not trying to insult anyone.

 

You know, in this recent chase I pulled off to get photographic evidence of that PI took some effing nerve, and some big time assertiveness (or, naturally, if we are referencing a women, we might use an alternate term, such as "aggressiveness").

 

Now, it was interesting to hear my MD's response to the fact that I had missed my hormone pills for a few days due to a changeover with insurance company that took over my coverage thru mail order. They were a few days late getting the stuff to me, but I didn't think it was any big deal. Well, apparently to her, MD, the sudden lack of Estrogen may have constituted my extreme determination to collect the evidence of this perpetrator - no matter what. And my body produced the adrenal to "play thru the pain."What I actually did, physically, is totally beyond the scope of what I am normally capable of. Hmm. Hormones. Scary.

 

OK. Point being, hormones are powerful. When they get outta whack - you gotta distaster. I mean, who the hell doesn't get PMS these days. Pre-menopause, menopause, post-menopause are a whole new ball game. For your consideration.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Yasuandio