Men that want to date broken women...

[D-Lish]

You have to let people make their own f-ups else they never learn. I've tried to keep maybe 20 friends out of rehab over the years, just prolongs their process. The old "lead horse to water... can't make em think" cliche usually proves true. You are obviously a good giving friend, spend that energy on someone who appreciates it. Your friend could end up marrying that creeper ex friend of yours for all you know, people come to mutual misery in the most improbable ways.

 

So I need a new project, lol.

 

Honestly, helping her out of hot water helps me forget about my own problems- so I need to find someone else in trouble that has more potential to be served by my intervention.

 

I almost feel like a failure that she's listened to everything I've said- been apparantly acceptant of it- and is now just ignoring the help to make the same past mistakes.

 

I used to be a counsellor- and I experienced this frustration in that line of work as well. People really don't break destructive patterns- despite help or insight....They just don't.

[betterdeal]

And so true... What do I do?

 

Try and reason and talk her out of this pattern or just give up?

I'm about ready to give up.

 

To be honest, I'm annoyed with her right now.

 

She tells me looks up to me, she ALWAYS comes back after she goes against my advice and gets hurt and tells me that she should have listened to me...But she keeps making the same mistakes and then wants me to pick up the pieces so she can go on and repeat the same destructive pattern...

 

Sounds like a right drag. You agree something; she renages; she comes back in tears and says sorry; you agree something; rinse and repeat. I have had those sorts of friends, male and female. They turn up on your doorstep when their chips are down, and rarely when the good times are rolling. To be honest, what are you getting out of this relationship with her? There has to be some give and take, in both directions, and it doesn't sound like there is.

[D-Lish]

She's very emotionally driven and no amount of logic or common sense will change the different way she thinks. All you can do as a friend is to be her sounding board.

 

If it gets too frustrating, then back off and don't accept her invites to go out or come over.

 

A bigger component to the problem is her lack of insight. I'm emotionally driven as well- but I have logic and insight that helps me to make better choices.

 

I've wanted to contact my ex for 4 months- it's my logic and insight that stops me- and will continue to stop me.

[betterdeal]

You're the back up plan. The abused spouse. The cuckold.

 

Why?

[threebyfate]

A bigger component to the problem is her lack of insight. I'm emotionally driven as well- but I have logic and insight that helps me to make better choices.

 

I've wanted to contact my ex for 4 months- it's my logic and insight that stops me- and will continue to stop me.

Yes you do probably even when you were 25. Now that you've had a lot more dating and relationship experience, you've got even more of it.

 

I know you've become her caring big sister. But sometimes we have to let people make their own mistakes. This is one of the biggest lessons I've learned on LS, when to let go of people and let them do their thing, no matter how much trouble it gets them into.

[D-Lish]

Sounds like a right drag. You agree something; she renages; she comes back in tears and says sorry; you agree something; rinse and repeat. I have had those sorts of friends, male and female. They turn up on your doorstep when their chips are down, and rarely when the good times are rolling. To be honest, what are you getting out of this relationship with her? There has to be some give and take, in both directions, and it doesn't sound like there is.

 

I'm a lot older than her. Our parents are old family friends. I see her like the younger sister I never had. She attached herself to me as an older sister a long time ago- so I have an emotional investment in her.

 

I moved to Toronto a while back- and she's just new here- and her parents (whom are like my aunt and uncle) asked me to take care of her. The break up coincided with her move. She lives 5 minutes away from me.

 

I get satisfaction from guiding others. It makes me feel good to help others. I'm a better coach than a player- that's to be sure.

 

So... It's not like she's my "friend", she's like a little sis. I can't expect a relationship like this to be reciprocal- I'm just frustrated that she just doesn't effing listen to what I say. Because she always comes back and says "you were right".... "you're always right"... But she doesn't ever take my advice... THEN after NOT taking my advice and getting hurt- she seeks my support when she goes against my advice and ends up getting hurt.

 

That's been the cycle for years.

[D-Lish]

Yes you do probably even when you were 25. Now that you've had a lot more dating and relationship experience, you've got even more of it.

 

I know you've become her caring big sister. But sometimes we have to let people make their own mistakes. This is one of the biggest lessons I've learned on LS, when to let go of people and let them do their thing, no matter how much trouble it gets them into.

 

I don't know, I prefer to think our logic is the barrier between "mistake and chaos":lmao:

[Nexus One]

I know a guy who seems to portray similar traits. I've told him: "You're the kind of guy that hits the gas pedal even harder once you see you're going to crash into a wall at high speed."

 

There's no stopping him. I've tried to reason with him and even while he respects me and looks up to me, my advice hasn't caused him to change his ways. I've since just accepted him the way he is.

 

That being said, she probably gets high on love chemicals every time she gets infatuated with a new guy. The feelings that are then produced are incredibly strong. It's easy to underestimate the strength of that, it definitely causes to influence one's behavior and tends to affect the rational thought process. In order to go against those feelings one needs strong discipline, because even if you're a logical/rational person by default, during a strong crush that rationality tends to get thrown out of the window.

[D-Lish]

Have you considered that she knows exactly what she is doing, could she have met her previous BFs in the same way? She could be thinking you are naive for not realizing her little broken wing trick. What? She would admit that to you? Seriously I know tons of folks who use the "poor me" tactic, male more than female actually, to get the next thing going. Sorry that sounds cynical, I don't do it, you dont; do it, but lots of people do, saw a dude doing it tonight, "I just broke up waaa waaa, give me some pity head." Happens every night thousands of times. Hell it may be the smart way to go.

 

I haven't- and you've admitted you're drunk tonight- but there might be some insight happening here:D

 

You're the back up plan. The abused spouse. The cuckold.

 

Why?

 

I'm more of the big sister that "apparantly" is someone to look up to because I present as a person that doesn't get frazzled about anything- ever...even though I do- often. I just pick and choose who I admit my insecurities to. I'll admit them to her- but that's in part ot help her realize that we all have issues...

 

I'm fine with her "needing me"- I'm good with that because she's young-but it's hard to be a counsellor 24 hours a day when you have your own problems you can't vent to anyone about.

[betterdeal]

So... It's not like she's my "friend", she's like a little sis. I can't expect a relationship like this to be reciprocal- I'm just frustrated that she just doesn't effing listen to what I say. Because she always comes back and says "you were right".... "you're always right"... But she doesn't ever take my advice... THEN after NOT taking my advice and getting hurt- she seeks my support when she goes against my advice and ends up getting hurt

 

I wouldn't expect you expect an egalitarian relationship, but I am interested in what you get from the relationship, and what you want to get from it in the future. I mean, do you guys sometimes just have fun together? Do you see each other when either of you has a boyfriend and the boyfriend thing is going okay, no issues?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but since you're like close cousins, extended family as it were, I'm not hearing about how you two enjoy each other's company other than she getting a place to weather the storms and you getting a distraction from your own internal storms.

 

Not that any of that is right or wrong, good or bad. It's your life. You seem to feel a bit weary of the relationship, and are looking for ways to change it. I suggest the change comes from within you first of all. You find a way to assert your need for good times as well as for being a shoulder to cry on, and you find ways to give advice, be compassionate, but knowing when to step back and not feel annoyed that your investment hasn't paid off in the way you wanted it to. To not give more than you can afford to. And I think part of that is being able to talk about other stuff, do other stuff, whether either of you has a fella or not.

[D-Lish]

I wouldn't expect you expect an egalitarian relationship, but I am interested in what you get from the relationship, and what you want to get from it in the future. I mean, do you guys sometimes just have fun together? Do you see each other when either of you has a boyfriend and the boyfriend thing is going okay, no issues?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but since you're like close cousins, extended family as it were, I'm not hearing about how you two enjoy each other's company other than she getting a place to weather the storms and you getting a distraction from your own internal storms.

 

Not that any of that is right or wrong, good or bad. It's your life. You seem to feel a bit weary of the relationship, and are looking for ways to change it. I suggest the change comes from within you first of all. You find a way to assert your need for good times as well as for being a shoulder to cry on, and you find ways to give advice, be compassionate, but knowing when to step back and not feel annoyed that your investment hasn't paid off in the way you wanted it to. To not give more than you can afford to. And I think part of that is being able to talk about other stuff, do other stuff, whether either of you has a fella or not.

 

Yes, we do hang out and have fun when things are going okay- but things have rarely been going okay this past year, as this guy that has just dumped her was always bringing her to tears, lying to her, etc... So this past year there has been a lot of drama- and my shoulder is bruised from it.

 

You're right though, I can't change her.

 

I took her to the beach and introduced her to some girls her own age the other day- and that day was fun, so those times do happen. When I was dating someone, we all went out once and a while. I think I've also put myself in the position to play this role, and not done a lot to change that. (Which is my fault).

 

I was hoping that by introducing her to some girls her own age that it might take some pressure off of me... But they didn't really "click".

[Nexus One]

If she's always drawn to have relationships with men, but has a broken boyfriend picker, then perhaps you could introduce her to some guys you find to be decent. Because the way you explain it, she'll get with a guy either way, so you might as well introduce her to a decent guy.

 

Then again, the role of playing cupid might suck too and it might also put the responsibility of choosing a man for her on you, so in that respect I'm not sure if it's a good idea.

[stillafool]

Its the male instinct to come to the rescue of the damsel in distress.

 

Yeah, especially when the woman is only 24.

 

It does seem strange. I remember when men use to complain that women were too emotional and too needy. Now it seems that's all they want.

[threebyfate]

I was hoping that by introducing her to some girls her own age that it might take some pressure off of me... But they didn't really "click".

They didn't click because she's looking for an older sister, someone who she can rely on to say "there, there". An anchor for her flightiness.

[betterdeal]

Yes, we do hang out and have fun when things are going okay- but things have rarely been going okay this past year, as this guy that has just dumped her was always bringing her to tears, lying to her, etc... So this past year there has been a lot of drama- and my shoulder is bruised from it.

 

You're right though, I can't change her.

 

I took her to the beach and introduced her to some girls her own age the other day- and that day was fun, so those times do happen. When I was dating someone, we all went out once and a while. I think I've also put myself in the position to play this role, and not done a lot to change that. (Which is my fault).

 

I was hoping that by introducing her to some girls her own age that it might take some pressure off of me... But they didn't really "click".

 

Ah well, maybe not trying so much will give you a break. She'll learn more from having a functional, overall positive relationship with you than you trying to fix her. Living the way you think is a good way to live will give her a role model.

 

My brother and sisters all say they want the best for their children, and I always say the best for their children is to have functional, positive, stable yet flexible, parents. I think the same applies here too.

 

And the process of becoming more, well, the ideal you is also something she can learn from. Letting her know you're disappointed that she didn't follow your advice but that you still care for her, and finding ways to move conversations on from insecurity and worry to something more enjoyable, will all be lessons in the more subtle, nuanced nature of life for her.

Edited July 27, 2011 by betterdeal

[D-Lish]

They didn't click because she's looking for an older sister, someone who she can rely on to say "there, there". An anchor for her flightiness.

 

Yeah, and these girls I introduced her to are young, trendy, Toronto girls- not overly receptive to a girl that is a little shy and awkward. I got a tan though, that's all I care about!

[D-Lish]

Ah well, maybe not trying so much will give you a break. She'll learn more from having a functional, overall positive relationship with you than you trying to fix her. Living the way you think is a good way to live will give her a role model.

 

My brother and sisters all say they want the best for their children, and I always say the best for their children is to have functional, positive, stable yet flexible, parents. I think the same applies here too.

 

And the process of becoming more, well, the ideal you is also something she can learn from. Letting her know you're disappointed that she didn't follow your advice but that you still care for her, and finding ways to move conversations on from insecurity and worry to something more enjoyable, will all be lessons in the more subtle, nuanced nature of life for her.

 

You're exactly right. And if she's going to jump right back into a relationship, she'll have someone else to talk to!

 

Can't wait to meet this latest guy... If she was bawling her eyes out on their first date and he asked her out again wanting them to be exclusive... What is that all about????? He's 28 apparantly.

[Woggle]

One thing men hate in a relationship is feeling disposable and not needed and with a together and confident woman that is how many feel. Dating women that need rescuing makes some men feel that they have a purpose in her life and aren't just some guy she can take or leave.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Woggle

[threebyfate]

One thing men hate in a relationship is feeling disposable and not needed and with a together and confident woman that is how many feel. Dating women that need rescuing makes some men feel that they have a purpose in her life and aren't just some guy she can take or leave.

Not all men hate this. Hubby loves it. It allows him to focus on the relationship instead of being sucked dry by a needy woman.

[Woggle]

Not all men hate this. Hubby loves it. It allows him to focus on the relationship instead of being sucked dry by a needy woman.

 

Not all men of course but it is a common thing. Men like to feel like they matter to a woman.

[threebyfate]

Not all men of course but it is a common thing. Men like to feel like they matter to a woman.

Everyone wants to feel like they matter but that's different from needing to be needed. The latter smacks of soul sucking insecurity.

[betterdeal]

You're exactly right. And if she's going to jump right back into a relationship, she'll have someone else to talk to!

 

Can't wait to meet this latest guy... If she was bawling her eyes out on their first date and he asked her out again wanting them to be exclusive... What is that all about????? He's 28 apparantly.

 

Who knows? Are you tempted to own this in some way?

[Woggle]

Everyone wants to feel like they matter but that's different from needing to be needed. The latter smacks of soul sucking insecurity.

 

I agree that it is unhealthy but feeling like you are disposable is one of the worst feelings for a man in a relationship. It makes him feel unimportant. It's something that I sometimes struggle with myself.

[D-Lish]

One thing men hate in a relationship is feeling disposable and not needed and with a together and confident woman that is how many feel. Dating women that need rescuing makes some men feel that they have a purpose in her life and aren't just some guy she can take or leave.

 

Well I'll tell you something about this young girl that is needy- she's always seeking attention. If her and her bf had a fight- she'd seek attention elsewhere. Me being confident, I don't need to do that- and I've never been a cheater- but she has more than a few times. One fight will cause her to go out and seek out attention elsewhere... Me? I seek other outlets and entertaining the idea of stepping out of the relationship for attention just because things aren't working the way I want them to has never occurred to me.

 

Not all men hate this. Hubby loves it. It allows him to focus on the relationship instead of being sucked dry by a needy woman.

 

I only present as confident initially- then I have to go through a period of testing them (that's my issue). But besides being pregnant, I never, ever felt as needy as I did during that time.

 

I agree that it is unhealthy but feeling like you are disposable is one of the worst feelings for a man in a relationship. It makes him feel unimportant. It's something that I sometimes struggle with myself.

 

Well listen to what I said prior. This girl has cheated on her bf's in the past when she felt neglected because she is so needy, and when she isn't getting the attention she needs she seeks it elsewhere.

 

A confident woman won't do this- they will just be 100% okay staying in and watching a movie or immersing herself in work- she won't seek out validation elsewhere.

 

Dating a needy woman means you take on the responsibility of fulfilling her needs 100% of the time or risk her seeking validation elsewhere.

[Woggle]

Logically I know that but when men see a woman that has her stuff together he wonders what she even needs a man for and right or wrong men like to feel needed.