This is one of the most bitter sites I have come across

[Els]

No, you have a very bad habit of jumping to unwarranted conclusions. Just because I posted that there are lots of blogs and a way to search for any old blog you want does not mean Woggle purposefully searched for the one he linked. He may have, but what I posted is not evidence of that or connected to that possibility at all.

 

Also wanted to add that the last blog I linked is more of an anti modern feminist blog than a traditional feminist blog, I didn't read deeply enough, the "why I do what I do" part is really good though.

 

Oh, you silly fellow. Of course I know that it's possible to search for any blog. Which 15-year-old doesn't? Cripes, I design search engines as part of my course. You jumped to the conclusion that QZ's and my question of 'how did you find it?' was a technical one. It was not.

[serial muse]

No, you have a very bad habit of jumping to unwarranted conclusions. Just because I posted that there are lots of blogs and a way to search for any old blog you want does not mean Woggle purposefully searched for the one he linked.

 

Woggle's an honest person, though, and I think he would be the first to admit he sought this out when he comes back to this thread. He "falls off the wagon" all the time in this way.

 

I guess I just wonder what purpose posting this sort of thing serves - as you (I think?) said, there are blogs for everything out there. One could spend all day doing nothing but looking for blogs to support any viewpoint under the sun, including the full spectrum of angry ranting misogyny and misandry both.

 

As was also pointed out upthread, the question that had been posed was whether that kind of "I hate men" ranting threads are on these boards...perhaps as a counterpoint to the umpteen threads by Russian8080 or MarsThing or whatever he's calling himself at the moment. So, posting an unrelated and cherry-picked blog that supports the angry feelings doesn't really answer the question.

[Els]

... No, smart boy, I quoted your post to explain why I had asked Woggle the question to begin with. Stop misreading my questions and then accusing me of misusing your statements which stemmed from your own misreadings.

 

Fine, then, if you want to play the game. Why did you make that post explaining the rather obvious fact that someone can search for a blog if they want to, in response to my question to the OP asking how he found it? What was the intended purpose?

 

This conversation is hilarious, really. Know what you're doing? Here's a little analogy.

 

A is supposed to refrain from drinking.

 

B sees A with a new bottle of drink and asks A, 'Where did you get that?'

 

C (that's you, smart boy) tells B, 'You do know that anyone can purchase drink from any liquor store down the road by providing cash and an ID, right?'

 

B says, 'Of course I know that. But A isn't supposed to be drinking, so why is he buying bottles of drink?'

 

C says, 'No, sorry, your intent in quoting my last statement couldn't be more plain. You wanted to use what I posted wrongly as evidence that A set out to buy a bottle when he wasn't supposed to drink.'

 

[Untouchable_Fire]

There's always more to the story with claims like this. If men were doing something extremely strenuous and dangerous for 3-4 hours a day, and women were tending the children during the 16 hours a day that the children are awake, well there you have it, women do 80% of the "work." Bet if you went to that tribe, you'd see a bunch of dudes limping around with arms and legs that had been gnawed off and gored by wild animals or rotted off by bug poison and army ant bites, and happy, smiling women and children without any such maimings. I saw some movie recently where this little new guinea dude climbed up a 150 ft tree right into a GIGANTIC bee's nest with only a loincloth just to get a honeycomb for his wife. Zthose bees were stinging the living hell out of him and he's just smiling away because he knows that honeycomb's gonna get him some hairy Papua leg and some peace and quiet for a day or two until she wants some more 150 ft tall tree honey. God knows how that poor, poor noble woman stands being oppressed like that smug little patriarch.

 

I think you are way off. Tribal society sucks hard for women. There is nobody to show up and arrest a guy if he smacks his wife and kids around. The best protection she has is a father and any brothers... if they even care.

 

The guys go hunting an average twice a week and contribute about 10% of the food the family eats. The women gather nuts, berries, roots and tend the livestock which provides about 85-90% of the families food.

 

When not hunting the men sat around the fire and drank.

 

Honestly the lives and roles of women become exponentially better the richer the country.

[Els]

And the reason I posted (which you quoted as the basis of your post, btw), was to ask exactly what I typed in those exact words with the very clear meaning: 'How did you find that blog, Woggle?'

 

Excellent that we understand each other now.

[Pyro]

I thought the gender wars on here were bad. Do women really feel this way or is it just a small percentage? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CEgQFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihatemen.org%2F2011%2F01%2F25%2Fthe-culture%2F&ei=fYofTpCMCubZ0QGMtciWAw&usg=AFQjCNFR8Qkp-HklUD6Q_9fiBOk42oNdQA

 

if you devoted as much time getting over your trust issues with women as you do searching the internet for that type of stuff you would probably be cured by now.

[whichwayisup]

if you devoted as much time getting over your trust issues with women as you do searching the internet for that type of stuff you would probably be cured by now.

 

I agree.

 

Woggle, why are you actively searching/looking up sites like that? You know it sets you off and puts a certain spin on things, making you question every woman, including (eventually) your wife and then you have a mini freak out session here on LS. I don't see how this is helping you now or in the future. Reading about stuff that makes your blood boil.. What's the purpose? What are you getting out of it other than frustration and anger after reading those types of sites?

[Cracker Jack]

Honestly, you shouldn't waste your time looking for stuff like this. All it does is reinforce certain beliefs within your mind, whether they're right or wrong. That stuff does nothing but to the mountain of bitterness. Basically, what Pyro and WWIU said.

[Taramere]

More like I'm not interested in spending a good 20 minutes of my rather valuable time coming up with a well thought-out research essay for someone who'll just dismiss it because he has certain prejudices and flawed misogynistic thought patterns ingrained so deeply within him that nothing can budge them. Plenty of posters have tried with you. I have, in the past. Now, I consciously limit my responses to you. Sorry.

 

I think that's wise. Not to be derogatory to any posters in particular, but I've found there's a terrible temptation to waste time in pretty pointless research to prove points on this site...and 99% of the time people are going to carry on thinking what they think regardless of the credibility of your sources.

 

The woman who wrote that blog obviously decided to take herself off to her own little corner of cyberspace and rant to anybody who felt the same way. It's not very healthy, but at least by going off into her own space she's not inflicting all that rage and bitterness on anybody who hasn't gone out of their way to read it.

[Woggle]

The stuff posted on that blog is just as bad as the worst misogynists you can find on here. I truly do hope this is not how most women feel but when you read stuff like this it makes me wonder.

[Taramere]

I think it's a matter of how able and willing an individual is to challenge their own thinking. I can see how a woman would go down that road of fury if she wasn't prepared to challenge her thinking, or have it challenged. There is some merit to what she's saying about pornography. It's an exploitative industry, which tends to impinge on the lives of a lot of people who don't want it in their lives.

 

As a child, I had exposure to porn which I could really have done without...so I'm not keen on it. I feel able to say that, and to shrug off any resulting sneers or contemptuous attitudes because I'm very confident in my right to feel how I feel about it. Most men I know have responded by keeping their porn collections out of my way. I don't criticise them for using porn, but I don't want it in my life.

 

If the men I've known reacted differently and insisted that I adopt some pretence of liking porn, then maybe I'd start to feel more like the woman in the blog feels. Perhaps in her personal life she has been abused and felt unable to express her views without being punished for them. In a situation like that, getting good quality counselling would be far better than spewing it all out in an online blog that is bound to result in a lot of hate commentary being sent to her.

 

But she is entitled to her negative feelings about pornography. Porn is about sex, but it isn't the same as sex. Disliking it doesn't make a woman opposed to sex or to men. The porn industry has, however, invested a lot into bringing it into the main stream with the result that people who didn't have to have any view about it before are now confronted with this notion that they must learn to like it. A lot of people just don't. I view it as lacking in artistic merit, and I think it's a pity so much money is channeled into crap like that instead of towards the genuine arts....but if the majority of people disagree and want to keep spending money on it, that's their right and I wouldn't try to take that right away from them.

[LittleTiger]

Woggle, when you're 'Hanging out at EJ's' do you spend all your time surfing the net to find 'evidence' of how full of hatred and nastiness this world is?

 

Assuming you're still keen to continue your personal development and make a full emotional recovery from the damage women have done to you in the past, you would be far better to spend your time seeking evidence of good people - of both genders.

 

There are many, many women who love men (myself included) and many men who love women. Focus on those people. Focus on what's good about life. Focus on your wonderful wife.

 

I sometimes wonder if you deliberately visit LS to keep your previous bad opinions of women alive and, if so, why?

 

What is it that you get out of pointing these things out to the LS community?

[TaraMaiden]

The stuff posted on that blog is just as bad as the worst misogynists you can find on here. I truly do hope this is not how most women feel but when you read stuff like this it makes me wonder.

 

Woggle, when you're 'Hanging out at EJ's' do you spend all your time surfing the net to find 'evidence' of how full of hatred and nastiness this world is?

 

.......

 

I sometimes wonder if you deliberately visit LS to keep your previous bad opinions of women alive and, if so, why?

 

What is it that you get out of pointing these things out to the LS community?

 

A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: “inside of me there are two wolves. One of the wolves is evil and mean. The other wolf is good. The mean wolf fights the good wolf all the time.” When asked which wolf wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, “The one I feed the most.”

[Woggle]

I truly am interested in getting over my bitterness against the opposite sex but when I see blogs like this where some women just outright embrace their hatred and have no interest in getting better it makes me wonder what is the point.

[TaraMaiden]

And how exactly did you just happen to 'see' the blog?

[Taramere]

And how exactly did you just happen to 'see' the blog?

 

I'm curious about that too. What search terms did you use?

 

The site is called "I hate men". Is that the term you googled...and if it is, were you expecting to find some reasonable and thoughtful discourse between the genders?

Edited July 15, 2011 by Taramere

[musemaj11]

I think you are way off. Tribal society sucks hard for women. There is nobody to show up and arrest a guy if he smacks his wife and kids around. The best protection she has is a father and any brothers... if they even care.

 

The guys go hunting an average twice a week and contribute about 10% of the food the family eats. The women gather nuts, berries, roots and tend the livestock which provides about 85-90% of the families food.

 

When not hunting the men sat around the fire and drank.

 

Honestly the lives and roles of women become exponentially better the richer the country.

I agree with you.

 

I grew up in a developing country and the lives of women there suck! Basically the job of a man there is to work and make money. That's it and nothing else. On the other hand, unless she marries a wealthy man, a woman has to not only do everything else, but also work for a secondary family income.

 

I used to feel sorry for the inequality that women in developing countries experience. But after I moved to usa, I saw with my own eyes what would happen if you help women get greater rights. Instead of being appreciative and returning the favor, they would simply bite the hand that feeds them and demand more and more without giving any consideration toward the other gender.

 

What women don't realize is that without support from men, greater rights for women wouldn't occur in the first place. It doesn't matter how much the women in saudi arabia protested, if none of the men there sympathized with them, they would get nothing.

[Woggle]

I can't remember how I found it but I have been looking it for a while. I even extended the olive branch once saying that I am trying to get over my own bitterness from abusive situations and we need to end the gender hatred and before the post was taken down I got ripped apart. People were saying that they wish women had more guts to do what my ex and my mother did and that it was payback for every woman that was abused. How am I supposed to feel after reading stuff like that?

[Els]

...Why are you even bothering to post on that site, Woggle? Seriously. It'd be like arguing gender issues with musemaj. Both equally pointless and blood-pressure raising.

[Woggle]

When I read this and women's reaction to that woman who threw her husband's penis in the meat grinder I wonder why I even bother trying to get over my bitterness.

[rafallus]

Actually yes. No one can force someone to work somewhere in any particular industry against their will. I mean at least not in a society like our's where slavery is illegal. People would either demand better regulations or refuse to work there if conditions were not to their liking. I suppose the owners of the mines and construction sites could invest in machines to do the work humans would normally do but that would make this whole scenario more complicated.

 

Porn is a little different because you have demand and supply with varying motives and causes, and circumstances.

I agree.

 

Remember some of the most outrageous cases of worker abuse? Like:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_matchgirls_strike_of_1888#The_campaign_against_white_phosphorus_matches

 

Or

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

 

Or children working in coal mines, because boss was too cheap to build a tunnel for a full grown man (older times, but still)

 

Or, more recently, Foxconn factories (which make 80-90% of electronics you see on shelves).

 

See the pattern here? Workers were people with nowhere else to go, and bosses knew it too well, so they figured they won't put up that much resistance if they cut corners here and there, and ended up abusing the crap out of them. Regulations are necessary, because it is true that some care about only money, MONEY, MOAAAAARRRR MONNEEEEEYYYYYYY (eyes glow red)

 

As for porn, it may be, at least partially - certainly not a whole, and probably not even a majority, given high-profile porn stars, the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the more obscure stuff was actually product of fake job offers to another countries, which end up as human trafficking and forcing women to play there.

Edited July 15, 2011 by rafallus

[Els]

I agree.

 

Remember some of the most outrageous cases of worker abuse? Like:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_matchgirls_strike_of_1888#The_campaign_against_white_phosphorus_matches

 

Or

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

 

Or children working in coal mines, because boss was too cheap to build a tunnel for a full grown man (older times, but still)

 

Or, more recently, Foxconn factories (which make 80-90% of electronics you see on shelves).

 

See the pattern here? Workers were people with nowhere else to go, and bosses knew it too well, so they figured they won't put up that much resistance if they cut corners here and there, and ended up abusing the crap out of them. Regulations are necessary, because it is true that some care about only money, MONEY, MOAAAAARRRR MONNEEEEEYYYYYYY (eyes glow red)

 

As for porn, it may be, at least partially - certainly not a whole, and probably not even a majority, given high-profile porn stars, the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the more obscure stuff was actually product of fake job offers to another countries, which end up as human trafficking and forcing women to play there.

 

This is actually precisely what I mean.

[TaraMaiden]

When I read this and women's reaction to that woman who threw her husband's penis in the meat grinder I wonder why I even bother trying to get over my bitterness.

Because your bitterness is familiar, feeds a need for justification and validates you already entrenched negativity.

 

You do this because you want to.

 

It's some sort of twisted proof that - see? I was right all the time.

 

Now go look for some sites ripping women to shreds and being extreme in their misogynism. Go look for sites that advocate violence against women and treat rape as a fun power game.

 

Only when you redress the balance in your own eyes, for yourself, will you quit flogging this rotting, festering, stinking foetid equine-carcass that is your jaded and disillusioned, tired, repetitive and frankly boring opinion.

 

Your bitterness will only be gotten over, when you put it down and get over it.

[Dusk1983]

But after I moved to usa, I saw with my own eyes what would happen if you help women get greater rights. Instead of being appreciative and returning the favor, they would simply bite the hand that feeds them and demand more and more without giving any consideration toward the other gender.

 

Read that back. Men decided, in their infinite grace, to deign to help women get more rights - like some kind of reward for good behaviour - but instead of undying appreciation for the favour (at finally not being property after hundreds of years?) women had the temerity to turn around and bite the hand that feeds them.

 

Do you know what you're describing?

 

A child.

 

Misandrist blogs like that only exist because of men like you posting misogynistic rubbish on forums like this, naturally and without even thinking.

 

I'm a man by the way. You're a masculinist PR disaster.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Dusk1983

[TaraMaiden]

Dusk, you'll get used to it.

Musemaj is an habitual woman-basher and complete female-hater. He makes it his vocation in life to be as controversial, disrespectful and unreasonable as he can possibly be, because he knows people bite.

 

I can't be asked to give him the time of day, nor the ammunition he craves.

The way to quash the flames of a flamer is to not put logs on the fire.

 

(nice edit, BtW.. as a dog behaviourist, I appreciate the distinction.... )