This is one of the most bitter sites I have come across

[Untouchable_Fire]

You clearly trying to sell your philosophy more than informing us of science Mr. Genome.....

 

Damn... How did you catch me?

 

Evolution dictates that our behavior patterns be designed for flexibility.

[EasyHeart]

As for diseases part: are you trying to suggest that cavemen were somehow less troubled with diseases, just because they didn't deal with cattle?

Diseases need concentrations of population to maintain themselves. If people are living in dispersed groups of 20-30, viruses and bacteria can't spread as easily as when a million people are all crammed together.

 

And yes, diseases come from livestock and scientists can even trace many of them back to their origin. We know that things like smallpox. measles and TB all originated in cattle. So, yeah, cavemen were less troubled by disease when they didn't have to deal with cattle.

[rafallus]

Diseases need concentrations of population to maintain themselves. If people are living in dispersed groups of 20-30, viruses and bacteria can't spread as easily as when a million people are all crammed together.

 

And yes, diseases come from livestock and scientists can even trace many of them back to their origin. We know that things like smallpox. measles and TB all originated in cattle. So, yeah, cavemen were less troubled by disease when they didn't have to deal with cattle.

And I guess you mean billions of microbes living in their hairy bodies (or maybe cavemen were all sterile? Got some remains in your backyard anyway?) by the time nobody even heard of soap or a medicine altogether (uhhhh, or maybe even spoke any language used on the globe for that matter) were all harmless? It's all in cattle! Cattle is evil and must be terminated! All hail the prions!

 

You two are definitely very entertaining to read.

Edited July 18, 2011 by rafallus

[SlevinKalebra]

How come every commercial and romantic comedy movie you see now days portrays the boyfriend/husband as a meandering dolt and the girlfriend/wife as the smart, reasonable thoughtful individual?

 

And look how feminine young males are now days. A generation of men raised by women. I think they have gained massive ground in Western Culture.

 

YES EXACTLY! I recommend reading Adam Corolla's "In fifty years we'll all be chicks" Hillarious book. It's no literary work of genius but the ideas are real just like Mr. Savage said. Men have definitely lost what makes us men in the past few decades. I think that can be attributed in large part to being puppets. So many men act and pretend to think/feel like women tell us we are supposed to, in order to have sex. Western culture is so innundated with sex that we have been trained to believe there is nothing more important, not even our own self respect and worth

[Feelsgoodman]

YES EXACTLY! I recommend reading Adam Corolla's "In fifty years we'll all be chicks" Hillarious book. It's no literary work of genius but the ideas are real just like Mr. Savage said. Men have definitely lost what makes us men in the past few decades. I think that can be attributed in large part to being puppets. So many men act and pretend to think/feel like women tell us we are supposed to, in order to have sex. Western culture is so innundated with sex that we have been trained to believe there is nothing more important, not even our own self respect and worth

The western man is the most sexually frustrated creature on the planet (maybe with the exception of men in islamic countries). We have entire industries (i.e. bars, night clubs) that are built around tricking men into spend money in the [usually vain] hope of getting laid.

[Untouchable_Fire]

YES EXACTLY! I recommend reading Adam Corolla's "In fifty years we'll all be chicks" Hillarious book. It's no literary work of genius but the ideas are real just like Mr. Savage said. Men have definitely lost what makes us men in the past few decades. I think that can be attributed in large part to being puppets. So many men act and pretend to think/feel like women tell us we are supposed to, in order to have sex. Western culture is so innundated with sex that we have been trained to believe there is nothing more important, not even our own self respect and worth

 

A huge amount of boys are being raised without a significant father figure thanks to sky high divorce rates... and the female single parent craze. How do you expect them to figure out how to be a man?

 

As men we need to step up and be more active parents. We also need to give the women's movement a swift kick in the butt. There is a Tsunami of women ruthlessly exploiting the male drive to be a provider and trying to force men to parent in a feminine way. Men need to be masculine parents... teach their children about respect, honor, responsibility...

[serial muse]

A huge amount of boys are being raised without a significant father figure thanks to sky high divorce rates... and the female single parent craze. How do you expect them to figure out how to be a man?

 

As men we need to step up and be more active parents. We also need to give the women's movement a swift kick in the butt. There is a Tsunami of women ruthlessly exploiting the male drive to be a provider and trying to force men to parent in a feminine way. Men need to be masculine parents... teach their children about respect, honor, responsibility...

 

I don't take this thread very seriously...but in all seriousness, UF, I find it very, very sad that you think women are not good role models for these traits. Whatever you may think of feminism, women's movements, American women, etc., etc., etc., it just plain sounds like you're saying that women do not intrinsically exhibit these characteristics, because they are women.

 

How terrible.

 

Have you had no women in your life who exhibited these traits and modeled them for you? That makes me very sad for you. I say that without any irony - honestly, it just makes me sad. It has not been my experience, but from all of your posts, I can only guess that it must have been yours. Awful.

[serial muse]

It seems you are reading straight to the interpretation "women have no honor, respect, responsibility," but there is more of a middle ground. For example, do women play sports? Of course. Do women play sports as seriously and competitively as men do generally? Some do, most don't. So certain aspects of teamwork, sportsmanship, dignity are best learned from a man generally, doesn't mean women don't possess those characteristics.

 

There are types of honor, respect, responsibility that come from more masculine endeavors that are not likely to be gotten from a female influence. Those terms aren't absolutes, they are scales with gray areas, not formal ideals other than in some philosophy class LOL. When I was a kid, my dad told me to stick up for myself and if someone hit me to hit them back. My mother chafed at this advice, there's balance in the middle. These are masculine facets of respect and honor. My dad told me not to tattle generally, while my mother would go straight to parents and teachers and complain directly about disputes that might not should have been tattled out right off the bat, there is balance between these two attitudes. Character comes from both the yin and yang sides, saying the yin or yang doesn't have this this or this quality is ridiculous, but it's very fair to say the genders often relate to character qualities in different ways and that the richest upbringing is a balanced one.

 

I can agree that women and men tend to exhibit different responses to different stressors, for social as much as (if not more than) biological reasons. That's a discussion for another thread.

 

But I absolutely cannot agree that those behaviors somehow imply a greater understanding of the values of respect, honor and responsibility. Of course they don't. Nor can I agree that somehow men can teach those values better than women, to anyone, son or daughter. Attitudes, I would submit to you, are not values. The two words may or may not be related in terms of consequence, but they are most certainly not synonyms.

 

You have a curious definition of honor. How is honor anything to do with hitting back or not? Honor is about integrity, fairness, honesty, respect for oneself and for others. These are not gender-specific traits. As I said, perhaps the way in which one chooses to confront the world might vary - depending on both environmental and biological factors, and the jury's still out on which is more significant. But the inner core - the deep-seated values that ought to permeate any chosen behaviors, whether confrontational or not, whether aggressive or defensive - those are NOT the province of men, and it's just horrifying to me that in the year 2011 someone still thinks that they are.

 

I would also submit that you are slipping in a subtext into your statement that men don't "tattle" ... because you're implying that by contrast women do, although you phrase it differently (they go to the authorities or something). That may have been unconsciously done on your part - perhaps even you don't realize how insulting that is. But, since I've pointed it out, please do not be disingenuous and pretend that you're not assigning a value system to men's vs. women's responses. There is no ying and yang there. You've stated that you expect men to act in a way that has honor (no tattling!) while women would behave in a comparatively dishonorable way, because, I suppose that is their natural inclination?

 

This is all very, very sad.

Edited July 18, 2011 by serial muse

[cheergirl]

...and trying to force men to parent in a feminine way.

:laugh:True, lol, I saw this when my daughter was little and my husband and I had very different ways of dealing with her... I was a bit nervous, cautious, don't do this, don't do that, scared of what might happen..

He was very confident and lifted her up to look off the side of a bridge. I would NEVER had done that, EVER my fear of heights won't let me go near the edge of anything high... After I stopped panicking, I decided to trust him, he didn't want to kill my daughter. He was confident he was not going to drop her. When i started to relax and trust him enough to let him parent the way he saw fit... there was a big change in her. She was natuarlly more brave and daring than i and she started jumping off things going "catch me daddy!" and generally had a ball..Once i backed off from hovering and worrying. His influence helped her become what she is today which is very physical, very confident kick-ass kind of girl.. Not like me at all...Much tougher and i am grateful, i couldn't have done that for her, i think I would have made her nervous and jumpy and fearful...

Men do parent differently, kids deffo need both... IMO

 

I don't take this thread very seriously...but in all seriousness, :)UF, I find it very, very sad that you think women are not good role models for these traits. Whatever you may think of feminism, women's movements, American women, etc., etc., etc., it just plain sounds like you're saying that women do not intrinsically exhibit these characteristics, because they are women.

 

Where did you get that? I don't think he's saying women lack honour, responsibility and respect. I think he's just saying there is a masculine way this is expressed and it would be good for all kids, esp. boys, to see this modelled.

 

There are types of honor, respect, responsibility that come from more masculine endeavors that are not likely to be gotten from a female influence. Those terms aren't absolutes, they are scales with gray areas, not formal ideals other than in some philosophy class LOL. When I was a kid, my dad told me to stick up for myself and if someone hit me to hit them back. My mother chafed at this advice, there's balance in the middle. These are masculine facets of respect and honor. My dad told me not to tattle generally, while my mother would go straight to parents and teachers and complain directly about disputes that might not should have been tattled out right off the bat, there is balance between these two attitudes. Character comes from both the yin and yang sides, saying the yin or yang doesn't have this this or this quality is ridiculous, but it's very fair to say the genders often relate to character qualities in different ways and that the richest upbringing is a balanced one.

 

Also, one problem in single-parent homes, if one parent is forced to model everything... It is too much for one person, hard enough doing just one role right!

 

You have a curious definition of honor. How is honor anything to do with hitting back or not? Honor is about integrity, fairness, honesty, respect for oneself and for others. These are not gender-specific traits. As I said, perhaps the way in which one chooses to confront the world might vary - depending on both environmental and biological factors, and the jury's still out on which is more significant. But the inner core - the deep-seated values that ought to permeate any chosen behaviors, whether confrontational or not, whether aggressive or defensive - those are NOT the province of men, and it's just horrifying to me that in the year 2011 someone still thinks that they are.

 

I would also submit that you are slipping in a subtext into your statement that men don't "tattle" ... because you're implying that by contrast women do, although you phrase it differently (they go to the authorities or something). That may have been unconsciously done on your part - perhaps even you don't realize how insulting that is. But, since I've pointed it out, please do not be disingenuous and pretend that you're not assigning a value system to men's vs. women's responses. There is no ying and yang there. You've stated that you expect men to act in a way that has honor (no tattling!) while women would behave in a comparatively dishonorable way, because, I suppose that is their natural inclination?

 

This is all very, very sad.

 

I think you are reading what he's saying through very grey muddy spectacles... If I may present my experience, I was definitely the one initially who would say, "tell the teacher", Dad would say "smack 'em back!" These are generalizations, but they were also my experience as i suppose they are in a lot of homes. Kids get a lot from both parents. But what they get is different, not as neutral as many would like to believe. Biology doesn't change. My girl was chatty social loved make-believe and dolls, she's also a fiercely competitive athlete, son was quiet introspective loved wheels, cars, guns, hitting stuff... totally different energy, from day one, he had a doll for a long while, his dad hated it but he loved it. I used the doll to try to teach him how to be gentle, he was a hitter...It worked!

They are themselves ultimately, but the luckiest kid is the one who has both parents who respect/trust/appreciate and love each other for who they are, without trying to change their respective (hopefully) complementary natures...

[sally4sara]

Funny that you mention "agenda" part. Weren't you per chance arguing in some other topic how husbands in WW2 were sharing wives, desperately trying to prove, how monogamy isn't natural? Maybe not, then, "so what"?

 

This I get from looking at THE most popular porn scene. Who buys most of porn? Men. So I think you need to ask them why they gravitate to these scenes and not bother trying to tie one separate subject to another. But I'll let you know if proving anything to complete strangers on the internet has me "desperate".

 

The folks who wrote this book CLEARLY have an agenda and one I put in the ever popular category of "I am how I ****" which is a tedious and small subject for anyone to be so focused on. But if you ignore that, their research, references, and sources are sound. Or you can do what most do, scoff, and never look into it while still flapping your mouth about The Real Deal.

 

So now agriculture isn't natural either, leads to war, oppression, slavery, government, Hitler (up yours, Godwin's law!), Stalin, Flava Flav, etc... Fine. May I ask you respectfully: What was the alternative?

 

I have to be the one with a solution? Took an awful lot of people to cock it up, but right here right now, Sally4sara has got to solve it all? Mwah for such faith in me.

 

Do you really think this is The Real Deal:

 

As for diseases part: are you trying to suggest that cavemen were somehow less troubled with diseases, just because they didn't deal with cattle?

[Taramere]

Sorry, for whatever reason, women tattle more than men. In school years, it was always a girl who wanted to take names when the teacher left the room, never a boy. Insulting if you take it that way, but true in my experience. Men are much more likely to try to work things out on their own as opposed to appealing to authority or asking for help,

 

Teamwork and team loyalty can promote great outcomes. It can also result in cover-ups and grievous injustices. The teamwork at Enron was like a revolting caricature of what good teamwork should be. And, for that matter, manliness (bearing in mind the emphasis Enron leaders promoted on machismo). That's when the honour of team spirit, being "manly" and "no tattling" transformed itself into something enormously dishonourable.

 

Likewise...hysterical conspiracy theories or vexatious litigation are the caricature of honourable truth and justice seeking. The first is an abuse of power, the second is what happens when paranoia about others abusing their power starts to creep in and take a person's entire being over. Or you can get both that paranoia and the abuse of power in the one person. A classic stereotype of that happening would involve the 1980s social worker whose histrionic conviction that satanic abuse was everywhere, combined with their position of authority, resulted in families being broken up.

 

I think some people have internal controls that help them to veer too far over into either camp, and some don't. That's pretty much how I gauge other people. By their ability to stop themselves from falling into the abyss of blind loyalty - either to a team or organisation engaged in wrongdoing, or to a paranoid belief system. It doesn't take a man to stop a woman from falling into that abyss, or a woman to stop a man from falling into it. It takes a good balance of yin and yang within the person themselves.

[rafallus]

I have to be the one with a solution? Took an awful lot of people to cock it up, but right here right now, Sally4sara has got to solve it all? Mwah for such faith in me.

 

Sooooo, let's do a little recap, outside the box:

 

You complain about things nobody has a control over, which is waste of time and energy in the first place. But that's OK, since I treated it as entertainment (as pointed out in previous post).

 

But it doesn't end there. You complain about things, that nobody has an alternative to (how about solution suggested by the folks, whose book you're pushing - sure they should have some answers!).

 

All in all, you might as well complain that people don't grow wings, or tentacles, or whatever else.

 

That's The Real Deal. Have fun.

[sally4sara]

Sooooo, let's do a little recap, outside the box:

 

You complain about things nobody has a control over, which is waste of time and energy in the first place. But that's OK, since I treated it as entertainment (as pointed out in previous post).

 

But it doesn't end there. You complain about things, that nobody has an alternative to (how about solution suggested by the folks, whose book you're pushing - sure they should have some answers!).

 

All in all, you might as well complain that people don't grow wings, or tentacles, or whatever else.

 

That's The Real Deal. Have fun.

 

I bet the other students in your history classes had fun listening to you tell the teacher to stop complaining.

 

The folks who wrote the book have a solution as far as interpersonal relations goes and I feel its not really a solution because we are not just how we screw. Maybe they are but whats that going to solve all on its own? Its just more of the same: overly preoccupied with how other people screw.

 

The only solution I have is self examination. Asking ourselves why we do the dumb **** we do and care about the dumb **** we care about. Do you care about it because you were told to? Do you do what you do because you were told to? Could you be different and have you ever tried?

[rafallus]

I bet the other students in your history classes had fun listening to you tell the teacher to stop complaining.

 

The folks who wrote the book have a solution as far as interpersonal relations goes and I feel its not really a solution because we are not just how we screw. Maybe they are but whats that going to solve all on its own? Its just more of the same: overly preoccupied with how other people screw.

 

The only solution I have is self examination. Asking ourselves why we do the dumb **** we do and care about the dumb **** we care about. Do you care about it because you were told to? Do you do what you do because you were told to? Could you be different and have you ever tried?

 

I was talking about agriculture thing though.

[cheergirl]

I was talking about agriculture thing though.

 

Just a thought: a new thread, maybe? This feels like the equivalent of a dinner party where people are talking over each other, across the table, about completely different subjects... lol

[Woggle]

Nobody said women have no honor but both boys and girls need positive role models of the same gender and with fathers being thrown out of the home that is not happening for boys. We have a culture today that sees fathers as nothing more than disposable sperm donors so what ideas is that supposed to give a boy about his place in the world?

[serial muse]

Nobody said women have no honor but both boys and girls need positive role models of the same gender and with fathers being thrown out of the home that is not happening for boys. We have a culture today that sees fathers as nothing more than disposable sperm donors so what ideas is that supposed to give a boy about his place in the world?

 

I absolutely agree that role models for both boys and girls is key, and that many boys do suffer from the lack of a solid role model in their core family. That is definitely a big problem in the modern age; no argument here.

[Woggle]

How does a person become so hateful? I know I have trust issues with women and I freely admit it but I would never treat a person that way.

 

My mother is sort of the opposite of yours. She is not dying but her health is not good and I have tried to patch up our relationship while she is still here to no avail. She will probably die a nasty and miserable woman and while that is sad I no longer feel guilty about it. She chose to spend nearly her entire life hating half the population and god knows what she accomplished from it. My father is the happiest I have ever seen him while she is in her own mental prison while seeing herself as some strong and liberated woman. She still sees herself as victim as well.

[Woggle]

Just out of curiosity, with so many women posting in the beginning of this thread to criticise, belittle, attack and insult the OP, who has been honest and open about his struggles; he had an abusive feminist mum and is clearly still suffering...

Where is the compassion from all the women who saw fit to insult him?

 

A woman posting that her father regularly beat her, called for the death of women, and threatened to cut off her breasts would have been sympathized with, supported, praised for surviving etc... we all know it..

 

But because he's a man: silence....

 

Did he deserve that treatment from his mum, or are we just tolerant of the abuse of men and boys?

Or is he simply not credible because he's a man?

 

This is a plea for integrity, respect and honour...

Ladies, please explain yourselves...

 

I will be fair and say there are a number of women on here who have known me for a long time that have been very supportive.

[udolipixie]

American women, the whiny and self-entitled group.

 

You can give everything to a woman and she will still complain about how oppressed she is. Women expect everything to be handed to them not fought for. They dont understand that in this man's world, respect is earned not given.

 

As for pornography, cry me a river. Pornography wouldn't exist if no woman was willing to participate in it.

 

That's a people thing not a gender thing.

 

I see plenty of guys expecting girls they want to just be handed to them because he's nice and he wants a chance instead of working on himself or getting a girl who reciprocates his attraction.

 

A lot of man don't understand that just because men built this world doesn't mean you get respect simply because you were born male & share the same genitals as those men.

 

Those men who built society get the respect not you.

 

Sorry but a default respect for all men because of past men achievements is not given

 

You earn your own respect.

[udolipixie]

I thought the gender wars on here were bad. Do women really feel this way or is it just a small percentage? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CEgQFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihatemen.org%2F2011%2F01%2F25%2Fthe-culture%2F&ei=fYofTpCMCubZ0QGMtciWAw&usg=AFQjCNFR8Qkp-HklUD6Q_9fiBOk42oNdQA

 

I've come across way bitter sites. Try any single/pua/love shy/incel forum, I hate American Women site, Tom Leykis, that blog by the female misogynist, or just type in men dating blog.

 

It's probably a small percentage of women who really feel this way but it'll grow. I think more women will start reacting to the hate heaped on them with sadly more hate. Plus more women will be swept up in what today has sadly turned feminism into.

 

You can just think of her blog as her venting out her frustrations like you think of guys rants on here the same way.

 

While I don't hate men I can see where she's coming from on her other post.

 

Can't agree with her on porn- men are visual creatures and will always sexually objectify women at least with porn some women get to make a profit.

 

How does this post porn even compare to some of the stuff guys post on here?

 

Are guys really that serious about their porn that to post that any dislike or finding it degrading is just god awful?

[udolipixie]

The stuff posted on that blog is just as bad as the worst misogynists you can find on here. I truly do hope this is not how most women feel but when you read stuff like this it makes me wonder.

 

Really?

 

Where are the posts comparable to women are naturally evil, a woman is just a whore, women are just 3 holes, women should serve in the military but the attractive ones go into rape camps, there should be fair divorce laws so men can divorce their fat a** menopausal wives for younger hotter models (that's a nice short version, don't trust anything that bleeeds for days without dying, a woman's only worth her looks, etc?

 

In fact go to youtube and click on any video that shows anything negative to men & you'll see the bitterness in men.

 

Actually it's quite funny how anti-female vids & misogynist comments get upvoted in the hundreds but anything negative about men is just god awful.

 

Besides the title of this site how's this comparable to the worst misogynist sites out there?

[udolipixie]

I truly am interested in getting over my bitterness against the opposite sex but when I see blogs like this where some women just outright embrace their hatred and have no interest in getting better it makes me wonder what is the point.

 

Just like they see the men who embrace their hatred with no interest in getting better and think there's no reason for me to get over my bitterness.

 

And the cycle continues for both genders.

[udolipixie]

I agree with you.

 

I grew up in a developing country and the lives of women there suck! Basically the job of a man there is to work and make money. That's it and nothing else. On the other hand, unless she marries a wealthy man, a woman has to not only do everything else, but also work for a secondary family income.

 

I used to feel sorry for the inequality that women in developing countries experience. But after I moved to usa, I saw with my own eyes what would happen if you help women get greater rights. Instead of being appreciative and returning the favor, they would simply bite the hand that feeds them and demand more and more without giving any consideration toward the other gender.

 

What women don't realize is that without support from men, greater rights for women wouldn't occur in the first place. It doesn't matter how much the women in saudi arabia protested, if none of the men there sympathized with them, they would get nothing.

 

 

Oh most women realize that which is why they bite hand.

 

Without the oppression from men they wouldn't have need to fight for greater rights which is just equal rights.

 

They also realize bitterness & thinking the opposite gender is inferior is still prevalent in most men. Look at how many men support taking women's rights so that the dating game will be back in their power.

 

So the mindset is bite the hand it's the reason you needed to be fed in the first & it at any moment things aren't going the hand's way it will take away the food that it wanted to deny you in the first place

 

 

Just like men want respect based on past mens actions (building civilization) some women disrespect men based on past mens actions (oppressing women).

[udolipixie]

You want to know how misandry is expressed, here and other forums, and in real life? the face of it? (the topic of the thread) This thread is full of examples. When a man brings up an issue important to him that concerns gender relations, if that issue takes any bit of the spotlight off women and their issues, or puts any woman or any group of women anywhere in a bad light, the nauseatingly self-righteous "enlightened ones" come out to play and either a)lecture on at the unenlightened one over and over and over like a party member going around to the gulag to brainwash detainees by repetition, b)start in with insults to that man or others who agree with him, c)bog the discussion down with fallacious statements, straw men, non sequiturs, and the jury is still out as to whether this is done on purpose or just a reflection on the average female's lack of logical capacity. One thing's for certain, all the self-righteous blather will drown out most anything meaningful that could come from the topic, a discussion of pornography, a discussion of blogs, a discussion of misandry, etc.

 

That's misandry.

 

That's misandry.

 

Then by that definition there's even more misgynony on this site than I thought.

 

Here I thought what you were talking about was self-righteous thread jacking and bogging and that misandry/misogyny was hating the other gender and degrading/insulting them.