My mother, the dictator.

[KatZee]

First off, I don't know who to turn to. So I am coming here. I am a 26 year old female, soon to be 27. I've been dating my boyfriend for the past two years. He is 25, going to be 26.

 

About 10 months ago he left the state to get a master's degree. He worked hard, and got an internship which he's been at for the past few months. Just this week, they told him they are offering him a position with their organization. It's a huge break for him, he would be stupid not to take it.

 

They told him right out of the gate, that they wanted him to work with them for the next year, and then for another year after that. So as of right now, it will be two years of him and I being in a long distance relationship.

 

Although we have been dating for 2 years, he is not ready for marriage. He does see it with me, we have discussed it, but the time is just not right for it right now.

 

My boyfriend called my parents last night to catch up and informed them that he was offered a job. I knew the second my mother was told this, she would come to me, and of course... she did. Tonight.

 

She said, "Oh, well I'm happy for him if that's what he wants, but it's disappointing right? Aren't you disappointed?"

 

Just a little background on my mother. She is a complete controller. It's her way or the highway. She does not respect anyone's feelings, emotions, decisions, thoughts or behaviors. If it's wrong to her, it's wrong. Period.

 

For the past year she has made comments such as, "So when are you having my grandchildren? You know, you should push your boyfriend into making a commitment. He needs to be pushed." Every single time my mother said this to me, it upset me. No guy appreciates being pushed and pressured into marriage. If they are not ready, they are not ready. In fact, my boyfriend and I just got over a two week terrible ordeal where we essentially almost broke up. He admitted he's been feeling extreme pressure from me (when my mother comes to me, I then go to him) and that although he sees it, it's not as if he can put a time period on when it will happen.

 

Well my mother talks to me (keep in mind I am a soon to be 27 year old woman) and flat out says, "You are NOT to move out of state, change your life, leave your job for a guy. If he made a commitment to you, then MAYBE we would agree to this situation."

 

These are not my plans at all. I want to remain in my current job and gain experience in marketing, and then once I have at least 6 months experience, I would make the move to him.

 

My boyfriend has said to me, "I cannot be engaged to someone that I don't first live with." It seems to me that is a requirement to him, and I can get where he is coming from. Marriage is a huge deal and you shouldn't pressure or rush into a situation without fully knowing what you're getting yourself into.

 

So this is where this leaves me. 27 years old. In a WONDERFUL relationship, the guy I see my life with. We would love to be together, and even his parents, although not happy he won't be coming home for at least a year, are giving him the freedom to go. They even know about me possibly going to be with him and his step mother told me "this is something you should just do now, before marriage and kids come. get it out of your system."

 

There is one person standing between me and my boyfriend. My mother. Her words exactly were, "You are NOT to do that. Period. End of story. That is STUPID and you would be making a stupid decision. You need to respect me. If you make that decision I will not respect you, I will not respect your boyfriend, and I will call him up and tell him that."

 

I feel so stupid at almost 27 having to come on here. I know everyone will say, "You're grown. Just do what you want. It's her problem, not yours."

 

But she will guilt me, manipulate me, and throw this in my face from this day forward. She will go down fighting, bad mouthing me, my boyfriend, my relationship, my "stupid decisions." If I make the decision to leave, and I go behind her back and secure a job, and have my own finances, and just leave, then that's it. There will be no relationship between us from that day forward. We already don't have a relationship, it's highly strained, tense.

 

I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel like she is going to be the demise of my relationship. She can't accept that others have varying opinions and desires for the future.

 

I'm stuck. My boyfriend can't be engaged unless we live together, and I'm not "allowed" to live with him. I have no idea where to go from here or what to do.

[namedposter13]

I feel for you! My parents were the very opposite, BUT MY MOTHER IN LAW....well, she was EXACTLY like that. And not only her, but my father in law as well. I, like your boyfriend (congrats to him on the job, by the way), refused to get engaged before living with someone. I'm really picky about a lot of things and I like my life a certain way...I needed to know my future husband and I wouldn't kill each other before I made a huge commitment like marriage.

 

Well, his parents are crazy religious (I'm talking Harry Potter is the devil's work, kind of crazy), and obviously were against living together "in sin" (gasp). But my boyfriend wanted it and knew I NEEDED it, so we did it. His parents cut him off financially second year of college, literally through his car payment book in his face (which they had told him they would handle the payments while he was in college, since they couldn't pay for any education expenses) and telling him he had until the next payment to pay it off because he couldn't insure the car himself if it wasn't in his name (and in our state, you have to have insurance). Both he and I worked in college and both needed a car. Thankfully, his grandparents stepped up and paid it off and he just paid them back over time. Anyway, he hated them for trying to control his person beliefs and they hated him for going "against God." They didn't speak for almost a year and things are still rocky 3 years (and a marriage) later.

 

This is an issue of YOUR HAPPINESS. You have to ask yourself, "what is more imporant, MY happiness, or my MOM'S happiness?" And then you also have to say, "will I be UNHAPPY if my MOM is unhappy?" or "will I be MORE UNHAPPY without this guy in my life?" Next, ask if she is being a good parent by not wanting YOU to be HAPPY.

 

In my opinion, a parent should want for their child's happiness above all, including their own. Your mother is being a bad mother by not asking herself if what she wants for you will truly make you happy. We all want things for our children, but we all also have to accept that it's ultimately their decision, and we should love them anyway, even if they don't live exactly how we want them to. If your mother won't do that, then she's not a very good mother.

 

A lot of people are very anti-conflict, which just makes me so mad. People lie back and take all kinds of crap and then just complain about it later. NOW IS THE TIME FOR ACTION! Don't let other people make you unhappy, even if it is in some small way. If her nagging you forever after making the choice to move is going to upset you, simply tell her calmly and rationally, that if she continues to try to control you and if she can't accept your decisions, then you simply won't come around as much anymore. She wants grandkids so bad? Well, I finally told my husband's parents that there was no way in hell I was letting my children around bigots like them who weren't going to respect other adults and the boundaries we had drawn when it comes to raising our children, and that they'd better get a serious attitude adjustment if they ever wanted that.

 

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, remove it from your life. But if you keep letting things build up, it will be A HUGE BLOWOUT when you finally do get sick enough of it to push back. Also, you should think about your boyfriend in all this. If he is the one you spend your life with, how is he going to feel that you made your mother happy over him? A spouse is supposed to be higher on the list than parents.

 

A lot of people think this is "giving ultimatums" and shouldn't be done. You should just try to maintain an even keel. Well, I say that you get ONE LIFE, and your happiness is the most important thing. You're not giving ultimatums, you're telling someone the way it is. She is making you unhappy...you can't be unhappy unless it stops. She needs to put you and your feelings first when it comes to your life. If she's not doing that then she's in the wrong and should you really be catering to the wishes of someone who is in the wrong?

 

Sorry for the long reply.

[Taramere]

I feel so stupid at almost 27 having to come on here. I know everyone will say, "You're grown. Just do what you want. It's her problem, not yours."

 

But she will guilt me, manipulate me, and throw this in my face from this day forward. She will go down fighting, bad mouthing me, my boyfriend, my relationship, my "stupid decisions." If I make the decision to leave, and I go behind her back and secure a job, and have my own finances, and just leave, then that's it. There will be no relationship between us from that day forward. We already don't have a relationship, it's highly strained, tense.

 

I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel like she is going to be the demise of my relationship. She can't accept that others have varying opinions and desires for the future.

 

 

Your mother sounds a little like a friend of mine who I fell out with some months ago. As I was reading over this, I could imagine she would be the same with a daughter - if she had one.

 

Horrible as it might sound, along with the pain of becoming estranged from your mother might come an incredible sense of relief. Elation, even. You don't necessarily undertand how good it is to break away from a controlling sort of person until it's happened. Whether it's a parent, a partner, a friend or a boss.

 

You'll have guilt, because that's an inevitable accompaniment to these situations. There will be times you'll miss her. Ultimately though, when the controlled breaks free of the controller, the controller is the one who suffers the real loss. Maybe experiencing that loss will make her seriously address the way she has tried to govern your life, but I'm doubtful. Control freaks have huge difficulty in letting anything go, including the traits that ultimately make them so unhappy.

[Lucky_One]

I would stay in my current job and gain some experience, while saving every penny I could. After 4-5 months, I would re-evaluate my desire to move versus my desire to stay in my current position. If I still wanted to be where my BF was, I would start looking for a job in his area. Once I had one, I would look for a very cheap apartment or living quarters and rent it, and I would not have a landline telephone installed.

 

For centuries, people have maintained separate living arrangements in order to keep family and society happy.

 

While your mother might be unhappy that you have moved away from home, she can't argue that you have given up a job without having a new one or that you are living with a man without a ring on your finger. Where you spend the night becomes your own personal business.

[goldmoon]

I am sorry that you are going through this. To me your case seems to be a textbook case of "daughters of narcissistic mothers".

If you google the above expression you will find a lot of free advice on the net, including book recommendations.

 

These can be really helpful with real explanations, solutions and healing effect. (I know from experience as I am also coming from a narcissistic family)

 

There are two links to youtube videos on the topic:

 

Author Karyl McBride: Will I Ever Be Good Enough?

 

How to handle a narcissistic mother - Julie Hanks, LCSW on KSL TV's Studio5

 

I hope this helps

Edited July 25, 2011 by goldmoon

[TurboGirl]

Your mother is looking after you best interest. She does not want to see you move to another state, quit your job, friends, etc., for some guy who doesn't think enough of you to put a diamond ring on your finger. An engagement ring is a promise for the future, and frankly if he can't muster it up and have enough faith in you and your relationship to ask you to marry him and THEN live together, then I would question his sincerity. You are 27, not a little kid. You don't have to set a date immediately, but darlin' if you move change all of your life for HIM he's getting everything for free with no commitment on his part. It is about respect. Since when does the man get to dictate when HE feels comfortable about getting engaged? You are letting him set the limits and the tone of the relationship and your future? Come on. that is absolute BS, and he's wanting all the goodies with no commitment... in case he changes his mind.

 

So blah blah blah we see ourselves together, etc., then man up and put a ring on the finger.

 

I think you should stay where you are for at least 6 months and see how things play out. It will either be out of sight out of mind, or absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

Again, your Mom is looking out after YOU and YOUR feelings.

[Dooda]

Your mother is looking after you best interest. She does not want to see you move to another state, quit your job, friends, etc., for some guy who doesn't think enough of you to put a diamond ring on your finger. An engagement ring is a promise for the future, and frankly if he can't muster it up and have enough faith in you and your relationship to ask you to marry him and THEN live together, then I would question his sincerity. You are 27, not a little kid. You don't have to set a date immediately, but darlin' if you move change all of your life for HIM he's getting everything for free with no commitment on his part. It is about respect. Since when does the man get to dictate when HE feels comfortable about getting engaged? You are letting him set the limits and the tone of the relationship and your future? Come on. that is absolute BS, and he's wanting all the goodies with no commitment... in case he changes his mind.

 

So blah blah blah we see ourselves together, etc., then man up and put a ring on the finger.

 

I think you should stay where you are for at least 6 months and see how things play out. It will either be out of sight out of mind, or absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

Again, your Mom is looking out after YOU and YOUR feelings.

 

I hardly see her mother's behavior as looking out for her daughter. She is manipulating her daughter with whatever amount of control she has left.

OP, you must make a choice. I believe, inevitably, that you need to gain separation from your mother as soon as possible. You'll be surprised as to how much of what she says is simply emotional blackmail. You are her clutch, she needs you. Chances are she won't ignore you if you decide to move, because she needs you too much to do so. You will two things that are quite surprising. One, that she will quickly be finding ways to gain your love and attention, and 2, a great feeling of relief and peace of mind from your separation.

Regardless of your decision, you need independence so that, in the future, when situations like this arise, you can make your own decision and not be guilt tripped/patronized/blackmailed into making a decision that you would not be satisfied with.

[goldmoon]

Goldmoon, may I ask why you constantly mention NPD?

 

Lady Day: I don't mention NPD at all, let alone constantly.

 

I only referred to the disorder one time -when I wrote that my brother clearly shows all symptoms of that disorder, and sadly he really does.

 

The term "narcissistic" is not the same as NPD. Even though the disorder is also spreading, it is only one extreme on a wide scale of narcissistic traits.

(If you don't know the difference between the two I can recommend doing research)

 

I mention the term "narcissistic" is because that's the official term for it, and I do so whenever there are chances that such parental behaviour is the reason behind a family dysfunction. Whenever I see that there are obvious signs of narcissistic/toxic parental behaviour - and there are plenty of such signs in other posts too - I am trying to point it out as a possibility. The probability is high because narcissistic / toxic parental behaviour is a national - and worldwide - epidemic.

 

And - as I said - based on what KatZee has shared here, her mother seems someone who displays the typical behaviour of a narcissistic mother.

 

Btw: I just mention that there is a chance it is the case, but it is up to the individual - in this case to KatZee - to decide by doing the research and compare all the details of the symptoms with her actual family case.

Edited July 26, 2011 by goldmoon

[Lucky_One]

Your mother is looking after you best interest. She does not want to see you move to another state, quit your job, friends, etc., for some guy who doesn't think enough of you to put a diamond ring on your finger. An engagement ring is a promise for the future, and frankly if he can't muster it up and have enough faith in you and your relationship to ask you to marry him and THEN live together, then I would question his sincerity. You are 27, not a little kid. You don't have to set a date immediately, but darlin' if you move change all of your life for HIM he's getting everything for free with no commitment on his part. It is about respect. Since when does the man get to dictate when HE feels comfortable about getting engaged? You are letting him set the limits and the tone of the relationship and your future? Come on. that is absolute BS, and he's wanting all the goodies with no commitment... in case he changes his mind.

 

So blah blah blah we see ourselves together, etc., then man up and put a ring on the finger.

 

I think you should stay where you are for at least 6 months and see how things play out. It will either be out of sight out of mind, or absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

Again, your Mom is looking out after YOU and YOUR feelings.

 

This.

 

Again, this is another thread where it would be great to see another family member's perspective. Most children feel put upon by their parents to a certain degree; most children chafe at parental control. When you become a parent yourself, you will see the other side of the 45 single; the flipside of life becomes a lot more grey than just black and white.

[goldmoon]

I think the most important thing is not to be right but to be correct.

 

When we have symptoms like pain or discomfort, we always want to find out the reasons for it. It is equally true when the symptoms are of the soul.

 

That's why I think that some advice here is not enough and I recommend a deeper research on this and/or individual therapy.

[goldmoon]

This.

 

Again, this is another thread where it would be great to see another family member's perspective. Most children feel put upon by their parents to a certain degree; most children chafe at parental control. When you become a parent yourself, you will see the other side of the 45 single; the flipside of life becomes a lot more grey than just black and white.

 

Another family member's perspective would only add to the fight for being the one who is right rather than for being correct.

 

There are objectively / scientifically defined symptoms of toxic families and narcissistic parental behaviours. Once a person - on either side - can identify such problem, there is a chance to heal - but only then.

 

The main problem remains this: even when the symptoms of family dysfunction are there and the cause is identified, it is always the person with the most narcissistic traits who rejects doing research on this, who rejects looking into herself and who would reject going into therapy by fear of finding out that she may not be perfect.

 

There is another issue here: people tend to believe that when they have children they are given the same absolute authority as their parents claimed above them. In other cases parents make the mistake of going to the other extreme to contrast their own parents' behaviour. Either way and from either perspective - both as a child or parent - the best is to learn from authentic sources the correct way of being a parent.

 

If one loves her kid - *love* is the reason to do so.

Edited July 26, 2011 by goldmoon

[Emme]

Although we have been dating for 2 years, he is not ready for marriage. He does see it with me, we have discussed it, but the time is just not right for it right now.

 

For the past year she has made comments such as, "So when are you having my grandchildren? You know, you should push your boyfriend into making a commitment. He needs to be pushed." Every single time my mother said this to me, it upset me. No guy appreciates being pushed and pressured into marriage. If they are not ready, they are not ready. In fact, my boyfriend and I just got over a two week terrible ordeal where we essentially almost broke up. He admitted he's been feeling extreme pressure from me (when my mother comes to me, I then go to him) and that although he sees it, it's not as if he can put a time period on when it will happen.

 

Well my mother talks to me (keep in mind I am a soon to be 27 year old woman) and flat out says, "You are NOT to move out of state, change your life, leave your job for a guy. If he made a commitment to you, then MAYBE we would agree to this situation."

 

My boyfriend has said to me, "I cannot be engaged to someone that I don't first live with." It seems to me that is a requirement to him, and I can get where he is coming from. Marriage is a huge deal and you shouldn't pressure or rush into a situation without fully knowing what you're getting yourself into.

 

So this is where this leaves me. 27 years old. In a WONDERFUL relationship, the guy I see my life with.

 

There is one person standing between me and my boyfriend. My mother. Her words exactly were, "You are NOT to do that. Period. End of story. That is STUPID and you would be making a stupid decision. You need to respect me. If you make that decision I will not respect you, I will not respect your boyfriend, and I will call him up and tell him that."

 

But she will guilt me, manipulate me, and throw this in my face from this day forward. She will go down fighting, bad mouthing me, my boyfriend, my relationship, my "stupid decisions." If I make the decision to leave, and I go behind her back and secure a job, and have my own finances, and just leave, then that's it. There will be no relationship between us from that day forward. We already don't have a relationship, it's highly strained, tense.

 

I'm stuck. My boyfriend can't be engaged unless we live together, and I'm not "allowed" to live with him. I have no idea where to go from here or what to do.

 

You’re not stuck. You have a great mum. She’s got fire in her belly. Your mother knows what you are worth and she’s not willing to accept someone who will think you are less. That’s all.

 

She can’t rule your life she can give her input even when you don’t want it.

 

You said things weren’t so great a few weeks back. Your relationship is not all wonderful.

 

I want you to understand the difference between a man wanting to be with you and saying he wants to be with you. You are putting your life on hold so that he can have his career. On hold, I mean you are willing to do a long distance relationship for a man who feels he’s being pressured. That’s not the response from a man who’s looking to have a future with you. Marriage is nothing but pressure.

 

You don’t know what will happen in two years. He might change and not want to be in a relationship in that 2 year time frame. If you are willing to risk putting your life on hold for 2 years so be it. I wish you the best and it’s your choice to make not mommies.

 

I will tell you one thing though. You don’t move out to another state and leave you family behind with Mrs. Being your first name. That living condition stuff is bullsh*t.

 

They all ask for babies asap.

[Dooda]

Please excuse Emme. She is full of poop and likes everybody to know about the poop that surrounds her.

Whatever the bf does, or whatever you do does not entitle your mother to be manipulative, overbearing, insulting and emotionally blackmailing.

You have to make your own choices and accept the repercussions thereof.

It sounds like your mother is afraid and does not want you to make the same mistakes she did, which is understandable.

There is a vital difference between looking out for someone you love, and being emotionally abusive.

"She's got fire in her belly". Bull****. Its another way of saying she's a manipulating, angry, and controlling person.

[twopurringcats]

I am the daughter of two Narcissistic, abusive people. Their way or the highway, and they will blame/shame/attack/nitpick to death if they don't get their way. My advice for you is to run. Run far and wide, but run. Distance yourself the best that you can..temporarily or permanently - that is up to you and you only. Therapists told me to do this years ago when I was your age and I didn't listen..but now at 47 it's what I had to do..distance myself from people who have no respect for my own views on life, who MUST control at any cost. It is detrimental to your health and self-esteem to be around them when they are not respectful of your wishes and dreams.

 

You do what YOU want, without apologies, without question. It is YOUR life. You are an adult, and do not feel guilty for what your choices in life are. My mother is Hitler in a dress..I know what I am talking about and have been in recovery from serious child abuse for a long time. Controlling parents want to dominate, have power over you. Your independence can be threatening and that is just tough..go ahead and be proud of your decisions and don't let others influence them. You are not being selfish, rather you are being strong and decisive.

 

PS. Don't let your mother control your dating life or tell you how to have your relationship..it WILL kill it if you do. I know, mine did it to me. She hated this guy or that, and tried telling me how to do things. I listened and lost out on a wonderful man because she didn't like him. The men she liked were pompous idiots. Long story short..keep her OUT of your relationships, don't let her squeeze information out of you about your relationships. The more she knows, the more she can get in the middle and try to manage/control it. Keep it light and superficial with her, establish strong boundaries. I did and it made life a lot easier. You are the best judge of what is right for you, don't forget it. In time, years of experience will strengthen your confidence. Trust me on that.

 

Expect resistance from your mother as you assert your independence. It's not in HER plan for you to disobey her..but her plan isn't important here, yours is. I am not being mean. I feel for you and know the confusion and hurt caused by parents like this. I wish you only the best.

Edited July 27, 2011 by twopurringcats

[Chocolat]

What strikes me is that you do not articulate what YOU want, beyond 6 months experience in your current job.

 

He admitted he's been feeling extreme pressure from me (when my mother comes to me, I then go to him) and that although he sees it, it's not as if he can put a time period on when it will happen.

 

Hmmmm. How does mom force you to put pressure on your bf? Are you sure it's her agenda only and not your own?

 

I'm stuck. My boyfriend can't be engaged unless we live together, and I'm not "allowed" to live with him. I have no idea where to go from here or what to do.

 

Is the problem here mom or is it that you are not comfortable with your bf's requirement of living together prior to marriage? To be honest, I would be wary of pulling up roots, leaving a job, etc., all to move in with someone who isn't willing to make a commitment. But that's me and you are you. If this is fine with you, then do it. Mom will get over it.

[goldmoon]

I am the daughter of two Narcissistic, abusive people. Their way or the highway, and they will blame/shame/attack/nitpick to death if they don't get their way. My advice for you is to run. Run far and wide, but run. Distance yourself the best that you can..temporarily or permanently - that is up to you and you only. Therapists told me to do this years ago when I was your age and I didn't listen..but now at 47 it's what I had to do..distance myself from people who have no respect for my own views on life, who MUST control at any cost. It is detrimental to your health and self-esteem to be around them when they are not respectful of your wishes and dreams.

 

You do what YOU want, without apologies, without question. It is YOUR life. You are an adult, and do not feel guilty for what your choices in life are. My mother is Hitler in a dress..I know what I am talking about and have been in recovery from serious child abuse for a long time. Controlling parents want to dominate, have power over you. Your independence can be threatening and that is just tough..go ahead and be proud of your decisions and don't let others influence them. You are not being selfish, rather you are being strong and decisive.

 

PS. Don't let your mother control your dating life or tell you how to have your relationship..it WILL kill it if you do. I know, mine did it to me. She hated this guy or that, and tried telling me how to do things. I listened and lost out on a wonderful man because she didn't like him. The men she liked were pompous idiots. Long story short..keep her OUT of your relationships, don't let her squeeze information out of you about your relationships. The more she knows, the more she can get in the middle and try to manage/control it. Keep it light and superficial with her, establish strong boundaries. I did and it made life a lot easier. You are the best judge of what is right for you, don't forget it. In time, years of experience will strengthen your confidence. Trust me on that.

 

Expect resistance from your mother as you assert your independence. It's not in HER plan for you to disobey her..but her plan isn't important here, yours is. I am not being mean. I feel for you and know the confusion and hurt caused by parents like this. I wish you only the best.

 

I confirm every word of this.

Thank you for posting it.

[Almond_Joy]

Hey KatZee,

 

Everyone's relationships have a different dynamic, and I'm sure you and your bf have had plenty of healthy discussions about how you will go about building your future....but I'd recommend that you give TurboGirl's advice and the advice of others' similar to hers some thought. They make some really good points. Whether their points are the motives for your mom acting the way she's acting, I don't feel it's my place to say.

 

Whatever you decide to do, make sure that you feel it's the best decision for YOU - not your boyfriend and not your mom. And whatever that decision turns out to be, stand by it at all costs - whatever repercussions come from your decision will work themselves out in time.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Almond_Joy