How Can I "Respect Her Relationship" with OM??

[jaymz]

MM4: This is the hard part. I am in a similar situation and I absolutely hate it, 100%. But listen to the advice here, there is nothing you can do about certain things so instead of getting angry and arguing with her, just ignore it. While she can still provoke a reaction out of you, she is going to keep doing it: whether its for fun, a test, validation etc, who cares what.

 

A name is just a name, she doesn't deserve it, you both know that. She will always be a part of your family through your son, nothing you can do about it, so accept it. If she wants to keep the name because it annoys you, too lazy to change, waiting to get remarried etc, who cares. My stbxw having my name is the least of my worries!

 

If you have agreed money then pay it, have an agreement written up so you both know where you stand. I pay mine through the bank, so I don't have to see her.

 

Keep contact and conversation with her to an absolute minimum, don't tell her what your doing or where your going, don't ask after her. Be polite and business like.

[marqueemoon4]

yes, I realize my I have no say in any of these things.. if she wants to rewrite history and act like I was trying to short her $20, fine. the only thing I have is I KNOW THE TRUTH. no, she will never admit any fault at all.. not for cheating, lying, or just being a horrible person in general. apparently she feels justified for doing all these things. she's ****ed in the head. I've never in my life seen this level of selfishness, hypocrisy, and straight immaturity. I shouldnt have let her get to me (AGAIN) but I took serious offense to her implying I was trying to sidestep my responsibilities. no one else is surprised by her behavior, and after everything I've been through I have NO IDEA why I am still surprised at how awful she is. makes no sense.

 

so, last night I asked her: why exactly did you wait until I finished writing the check to tell me the amount was different?

 

her: oh no you're not gonna put this on me blah blah blah

 

me: why is everything about blame to you?? it was an HONEST QUESTION. I thought I was paying the right amount.

 

then she goes on about how I have a "selective memory" and how I said that I shouldn't have to pay anything because I'm unemployed. I never said this. She's crazy.

Edited August 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[LifesontheUp]

yes, I realize my I have no say in any of these things.. if she wants to rewrite history and act like I was trying to short her $20, fine. the only thing I have is I KNOW THE TRUTH. no, she will never admit any fault at all.. not for cheating, lying, or just being a horrible person in general. apparently she feels justified for doing all these things. she's ****ed in the head. I've never in my life seen this level of selfishness, hypocrisy, and straight immaturity. I shouldnt have let her get to me (AGAIN) but I took serious offense to her implying I was trying to sidestep my responsibilities. no one else is surprised by her behavior, and after everything I've been through I have NO IDEA why I am still surprised at how awful she is. makes no sense.

 

so, last night I asked her: why exactly did you wait until I finished writing the check to tell me the amount was different?

 

her: oh no you're not gonna put this on me blah blah blah

 

me: why is everything about blame to you?? it was an HONEST QUESTION. I thought I was paying the right amount.

 

then she goes on about how I have a "selective memory" and how I said that I shouldn't have to pay anything because I'm unemployed. I never said this. She's crazy.

 

I'm going to ask you in the nicest possible way MM4. But why are you bothering to ask her these questions? You already know what she is, so why bother? Why interact other than about the kids? It only leads to more arguments and hurt for you.

 

Take control and stop perpetuating the hurt?

[marqueemoon4]

I'm going to ask you in the nicest possible way MM4. But why are you bothering to ask her these questions? You already know what she is, so why bother? Why interact other than about the kids? It only leads to more arguments and hurt for you.

 

Take control and stop perpetuating the hurt?

 

i have no idea. i have NO IDEA why I even care what this person thinks, none. some part of me wants positive reinforcement from her and I never got it when we were married and I'm sure as hell not getting it now.

 

I am terrible at this game and my opponent A. doesn't care B. Is a heartless person to begin with.

Edited August 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[dreamingoftigers]

I will try to explain it AGAIN.

 

Your opinions aren't wrong. You wanting her name changed back isn't right or wrong, the $20 dollar difference and it being annoying and her acting like you were trying to intentionally short her is aggravating.

 

Telling her that she's the greediest person ever: actually open character assault.

 

Saying to her that no one in your family wants her to have that last name: shaming, big time.

 

And all this during a pick-up.

 

Your kid is probably not going to understand why or how his Mom left. He probably is going to grow up living with her dumb justifications. But he will remember how neither one of his parents could keep it together at probably 50% of their interactions and how they hated one another. BOTH of them.

 

You can play the "she's worse" card. That being the case, I wouldn't let a moral slug bait me. It is never worth it.

 

I'd go into the situation (like I do every night at home) in front of my kid or otherwise knowing that this person is going to test me and push my buttons because they want to have more info to tell everyone (including the courts at custody time - hint, hint) that I can't keep it under control.

 

She's got about a zillion texts of the same thing: she does something self-serving that to the outside observer who has heard from her that you are abusive, considers it understandable: and then via text you lose it.

 

Sure everyone gets WHY you are pissed off knowing the situation. But every small incident and every last pick-up and text don't need to have the potential to turn into World War 3.

 

There have been dozens of "don't get into it with her" posts. That isn't because we love HER. It's because by getting into it you are never going to be able to move on from this crap point in your life when you think about the couple times a week you have to keep up this conflict cycle you've been in for years and years with her. Just because you don't fight with her doesn't make you a pussy. It makes you a much better parent.

 

As soon as you tell yourself that you aren't going to let this moral slug push your buttons and follow-through with it, you'll feel about 60x times better and more in control of yourself and your situation.

[PegNosePete]

Dude. She knows exactly how to push your buttons. And you rise to it, every time! You need to relax and just turn it around without reacting emotionally. Be smart not angry, it will P!SS her off SO MUCH. Right now she thinks she is winning, and she is right, because her goal is to p!ss you off and she succeeds every time.

 

So she says she's going to keep your name for ever and ever, that her next husband is going to change his surname to it too, and all her other 27 kids and grandkids are going to have your name as well! She's trying to p!ss you off. Tell her so what! Tell her OK cool soon my name will take over the world, thank you for the help. What is she going to reply to that? "Whatever" and walk away probably. You win.

 

So she tells you that your cheque is $20 short after you wrote it out in front of her. She doesn't really care about $20, she's trying to p!ss you off. Tell her fine e-mail or post me the proof of what it should be and I will make up the shortfall next month. And if you want next month's not to be short, tell me how much it is in advance. It's her own fault it's short because she failed to tell you how much it should be. What's she going to reply to that? "Fine" and walk away probably. You win.

 

And cut out all unnecessary conversation. Why did you ask her last night why she didn't tell you about the $20? What were you hoping to achieve? What do you think she is going to say? "Oh, I just did that to p!ss you off"? She is NEVER going to admit that even though we all know it is the truth. At best you will stupid excuses, at worst you'll get blame-shifting and made to feel guilty and angry. She wins. That conversation was totally unnecessary, you already knew the answer dude!

[LifesontheUp]

i have no idea. i have NO IDEA why I even care what this person thinks, none. some part of me wants positive reinforcement from her and I never got it when we were married and I'm sure as hell not getting it now.

 

Every minute you are focusing on her is a minute wasted which you could be spending on your future.

 

Yes your ex is a liar and a cheat. You were wronged. It hurt. It wasn't fair. All of those things. She may never apologise, or admit to all her mistakes so don't expect it to happen.

 

But you need to make a conscious effort to move on for your own sake. You can do it.

[dreamingoftigers]

Back to the name thing briefly: I have already changed my name back and we haven't even started proceedings. But I do feel sad because it is my daughter's last name.

 

It's a bit different because H and I hyphenated last names so I still have "half" my daughter's last name. He has kept his "married" name for now instead of dropping my last name.

[dreamingoftigers]

please someone answer since dot has thrown out judgement and conveniently left. is it abnormal for me to want this person who has caused me more pain and agony than anything or anyone else in my existence to change her name back? From my perspective thats the LEAST she could do.

 

I may be on here a lot, but until they come up with a version of iPhone dictate for Loveshack I may not be able to get back to every point at the speed of light.

 

Plus the jibe about my credibility pissed me off slightly when I was trying to point about something I thought was pertinent. To me it looked like you starting an argument. If I want an argument, I'll breathe in the same room as my husband.

[marqueemoon4]

no i don't let her get to me every time, in fact this is the first drama in a while. i fail miserably in this situation when someone is purposely trying to bait me, or maybe she wasn't, who knows.

 

so, dot, thank you for your feedback and it does make sense. i think what I said about the name thing (in person) was changing your name back since we are no longer married was the least you could do. i followed later by text saying no one in my family wants her to have it. they don't. how is that shaming exactly? is it a surprise that the people who care about me and see what this has done to me would not want her to keep OUR family name? this seems like common sense. I have no idea what her true reasons are for not changing it after clearly stating through her attorney that "she wants nothing to do with me".. I would think she'd want to change her name ASAFP. again, she is in the business of knowing what you want and doing everything in her power NOT to give it to you. i've never seen anything like it, honestly.

 

as for the character assasination, I'm not sure there is anything there to assasinate.

[PegNosePete]

She is a stupid immature child. Telling her to do something (eg. change her name) will make her all the more determined NOT to do it, because it p!sses you off (and your whole family - bonus!).

 

Best way to get her to change her name back is to say you don't give a crap what she calls herself.

Edited August 18, 2011 by PegNosePete

[marqueemoon4]

She is a stupid immature child. Telling her to do something (eg. change her name) will make her all the more determined NOT to do it, because it p!sses you off (and your whole family - bonus!).

 

Best way to get her to change her name back is to say you don't give a crap what she calls herself.

 

i didn't tell her to do it.. I simply asked if she had changed her name back, when I was writing the check. Yes, I had hoped she would say at the very least not yet but she was going to. She, of course took this as "me giving her attitude". I think it was a legit question for numerous reasons. Women with children who are divorced PLEASE chime in.. isn't it normal for a woman to go back to their real name once the divorce is final? especially in such a contentious, nasty divorce?

[dreamingoftigers]

In my personal opinion it's about 60-40 for not changing your name back.

 

Actually all of the older divorced women I know are still Mrs. So and so.

 

But it could be culturally normative for my area.

[marqueemoon4]

I may be on here a lot, but until they come up with a version of iPhone dictate for Loveshack I may not be able to get back to every point at the speed of light.

 

Plus the jibe about my credibility pissed me off slightly when I was trying to point about something I thought was pertinent. To me it looked like you starting an argument. If I want an argument, I'll breathe in the same room as my husband.

 

well, I posted what happened, you posted that "i was so out of line". you are welcome to your opinion, but as I'm on here to vent, I didn't feel that your summary was helpful. yes, I was super f-in pissed yesterday. I love ya Dot, and believe me I empathize with what you're going through and your advice is almost always spot on. I AM going to be wrong from time to time, I am human.

[PegNosePete]

You clearly expressed a desire for her to change it back. Even if you didn't tell her to directly, you made it clear that is what you wanted her to do. So she knows that not doing it, will p!ss you off.

 

Of 2 divorced women I know, both have kept their married name, due to the kids names being the same. Most women do not value their maiden names like us men do. Most women assume from a young age that they will not die with the same name they were born with anyway. I do hope my ex will change hers back but I'm not going to talk to her about it. What would it achieve? If she is wants to change it then she will. If she doesn't, then she won't. Nothing I say can change her mind.

 

Best way to get her to change it back is to never mention it again. If she mentions it tell her you don't give 2 short *****s what she calls herself.

[Mauschen]

The thing about insulting your ex (even if she deserves it) and asking her to change her name is that it doesn't do you or your child(ren) any good. In fact, having texts like those (or emails or recordings) can really come back to haunt you in the future if there is a custody dispute.

 

My ex, who was the one who did the cheating and lying, emailed and texted me all sorts of crap about me being a thief (referring to child support he was ordered to pay) and that I was trying to steal "his children" by filing for a modification of parenting time (based on 5 child protection reports made against him by the kids' school). In any case, the custody evaluator found these statements very disturbing and even stated to me that they qualified as emotional abuse.

 

So, yes, your situation is WAY different, but you need to keep your cool and not provide documentation to your ex that could be construed as abusive in any way by a custody evaluator or the court. I treat my interactions with my ex as business transactions. If he says something nasty, sends me a nasty email, etc. I simply do not reply to him. If he asks me a question about the children within the email, I respond only to that.

 

Here's an example: "Stupid b##ch, I know you have enough money with all that I pay you - so I don't understand why you haven't signed the kids up for soccer."

My reply: Would you like me to sign the kids up for soccer?

Him: Obviously

Me: Ok, no problem.

 

Of course, I would love to shoot back insults at him, but I don't. Just not a productive use of my time - or of yours in your situation.

 

If you're into books, I'd recommend 2:

Divorce Poison by Warshak - while I am not a huge fan of the concept of "parental alienation" I think the book is helpful in describing how the actions (and reactions) of parents in a high-conflict post-divorce situation can affect a child.

 

Child Custody A to Z by Guy White - this is if you'd like to gain more custody in the future. It has been immensely helpful for me during the process of asking the court to modify parenting time in my case.

[marqueemoon4]

I don't call her names. i was NOT trying to insult her. again, I simply asked if she had changed her name. it seems like a no brainer to me, but I have to consider who I'm dealing with.

 

thank you for the feedback Mauschen. i will continue to get destroyed by this person, as I am clearly outmatched. i've never seen someone so proficient at NOT CARING. i will never get anything I want or hope for, no matter what. I sure as hell don't want her back, and obviously that will never be an option anyway. I DO want the best for my son. do I think its healthy for him to be living with this OM? of course I don't and conventional wisdom says its not good for him.

 

i f-ed up. my son asked me why I yelled at his mommy last night.. obviously he didn't hear her screaming on the other end.. so I'm again the bad guy. i explained that dadas made a mistake, and told him I was sorry for that.

Edited August 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[Mauschen]

Hi MM,

 

I don't think you're wrong for being angry. My ex often makes me angry. But the fact of the matter is, these people are not likely to change. And you will make yourself (and your son) crazy by fighting, yelling, and insulting his mother (even if she really deserves it). In your posts, it is easy to sense how angry you are - it is going to chew you up and devour you. You have to let go of any desire you have for your ex to be nice to you, to care, to be reasonable. Do you have to put up with her crap? Well, kind of. But the crap my ex spews at me has really decreased since I show NO emotional response EVER. Try it out, and at first I think her behavior will get worse (to grab your attention), but when she realizes that you're not going to give her an emotional response, she will stop trying. It's kind of like when my son is grabbing my daughter's baby doll. He doesn't even want the doll, but the reaction he gets from my daughter is what motivates him to do it. If she just had no reaction to it, he would grab the doll, take a look at it, and then put it down.

 

I realize that you're not trying to insult her with the last name deal, but most people (i.e. a court) will not understand why it is so important to you. And eventually, she will probably change her last name. And if not...well, it just insults the OM and any other dude(s) she dates. No idea why the OM is okay with her keeping your name...

 

Your son living with the OM - no, not healthy. This is why I recommended the book by Guy White. Very helpful. This book helped me figure out what the court finds relevant in custody situations. Not sure if you'd like more custody, but if you do, then read this book.

[marqueemoon4]

I'm past angry unfortunately.. I would say seriously disturbed by the whole thing. I feel like I can't do this anymore. I really, really don't like how things are. After getting emotionally and financially beaten down the last year or so, I'm just worn out and I'm in a deep hole that everytime I start making progress, someone or something knocks me to the bottom again.

 

I would like more custody but will likely not get it due to some dirty tricks my ex and her lawyer pulled. I have lost a ton because of this.. and I have NO idea where to draw the line in the sand between getting treated like a doormat and sticking up for myself and just not caring... I really don't. I've never dealt with someone like this before or a situation like this. she knows she can hurt me and is very good at it.

Edited August 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[Surfer203]

Dude, you are breaking my heart. Please wipe your hands clean of what happened, how she treats you, what you PERCEIVE of yourself and your life. Let it all go, it's over. Start fresh. You have to consciously do that for yourself and your son. I know it's easier said than done but you have to force yourself to do it.

 

debtman.... we need some of your motivational words of wisdom right about now.

[Lexygirl]

This is how I see it MM4....

 

I believe that it's been so hard for you because it's hard to accept that you have no control over many things that are going on around you... including her reactions and feelings... You wanted her to feel bad when you said your family hates her so she might as well give up your name... you wanted a certain reaction but you didn't get the reaction you wanted and so you became more upset and made the situation even more volatile than it needed to be... inside of yourself. This only works against you. The fact that she is a greedy biatch may be VERY true but I think that what gets to you most is that you cannot convince HER of that no matter how hard you try. Again... you can't control her thoughts and feelings.. You can only control how YOUR expectations and your reactions. There is nothing worse than 'expecting' things to go one way and they go so totally different.

Not having control is VERY hard for us humans. It leaves us feeling lost and floundering to find a sort of compass.

Now losing your job is one more item piled on of things you couldn't control but what you CAN control is the direction your life goes from here.

 

You deserve some sense of normalcy and control now but the sooner you stop fighting the irrefutable facts about your life, the sooner you can let go and concentrate soley on the things you CAN control in your life.

 

You need to begin a new normal for you and your son. You need a compass and a routine that has ZERO to do with her. Make it your mission every day to let go of what you CANNOT control (make a list if you need to) and embrace what you CAN control.

 

Hope this helps you.

[andyg99]

comments in BOLD

 

I DO want the best for my son. do I think its healthy for him to be living with this OM? of course I don't and conventional wisdom says its not good for him.

 

ok - you may not like to hear this but here goes... if you want what is best then get that notion out of your head that his living situation is not healthy... tons of kids are in the same situation and they turn out ok. Accept that this guy may be his step-dad for a LONG time, maybe they'll marry and they'll be happy... accept that! I know it's not what you want but if you don't let go of it, and I told you this before, you'll be setting yourself up as the "unstable" parent. We all KNOW your pain all too well, we know you were wronged big-time but doing the best for your son right now means eating a lot of crap! you have to REALLY let her go!!!

 

i f-ed up. my son asked me why I yelled at his mommy last night.. obviously he didn't hear her screaming on the other end.. so I'm again the bad guy. i explained that dadas made a mistake, and told him I was sorry for that.

 

then make sure it never happens again... we're all puling for you, don't give her ammo to dicate visitation, if you keep doing this you may find yourself in front of a judge who could care less why you felt like yelling at your ex in front of your kid...

 

and BTW - you have tons of things on your plate right now that are way more important than a last name...

 

[marqueemoon4]

This is how I see it MM4....

 

I believe that it's been so hard for you because it's hard to accept that you have no control over many things that are going on around you... including her reactions and feelings... You wanted her to feel bad when you said your family hates her so she might as well give up your name... you wanted a certain reaction but you didn't get the reaction you wanted and so you became more upset and made the situation even more volatile than it needed to be... inside of yourself. This only works against you. The fact that she is a greedy biatch may be VERY true but I think that what gets to you most is that you cannot convince HER of that no matter how hard you try. Again... you can't control her thoughts and feelings.. You can only control how YOUR expectations and your reactions. There is nothing worse than 'expecting' things to go one way and they go so totally different.

Not having control is VERY hard for us humans. It leaves us feeling lost and floundering to find a sort of compass.

Now losing your job is one more item piled on of things you couldn't control but what you CAN control is the direction your life goes from here.

 

You deserve some sense of normalcy and control now but the sooner you stop fighting the irrefutable facts about your life, the sooner you can let go and concentrate soley on the things you CAN control in your life.

 

You need to begin a new normal for you and your son. You need a compass and a routine that has ZERO to do with her. Make it your mission every day to let go of what you CANNOT control (make a list if you need to) and embrace what you CAN control.

 

Hope this helps you.

 

It makes perfect sense. It made perfect sense when two different therapists told me too, along with about 20 friends, family and numerous people on this board. I am stuck in the worst rut of my life and I can't get out. I was in quicksand reaching my hand out to her and she walked away over and over and over. I sure can't convince her to care about me, that much is clear. What makes me crazy is that I couldn't convince her the sky is blue, when it clearly is. I can't handle that. My God I want to be understood so bad.. i felt so comfortable for 8yrs knowing that if every person on this earth judged me and hated me, she would be the one person who would understand. I don't know if she had ulterior motives or an agenda... I don't know if she ever loved me. I am just an uber sensitive person with crap coping skills. I hate being alone, I hate missing my son. I hate that 15yrs of work getting myself established is pretty much gone. I hate that women pay 0 attention to me. I hate that I have to sell myself to people. I hate this person can get under my skin. I am so at a loss right now, this may be the lowest point of my life.

[Surfer203]

F*** dude... the lowest point is dead and gone. That was your marriage and end of your marriage. Now you are in a transition period, that's all. Will take a little time to get your life sorted out. Have no fear, it will get sorted out.

 

You are talking s*** about yourself, from what I know of you, you are an awesome guy.. big heart (clearly), nice, funny. Don't sell yourself short.

 

Don't let this sad excuse for a human being taint your view of the world and yourself. She is clearly a psychopath who is not worth a second thought.

[Lexygirl]

God. I'm so sorry. I hope each day gets brighter for you. Please try to pull every ounce of strength from whatever source you have there and just know that you are allowed to be happy. Soon there will be more good days than bad. You just have to get through the crap and make a new future for you and your son.

Have your therapists told you about the 5 stages of grief? If not, google it... This knowledge has got me through a few really traumatic times in my life.

You have definitely been going through the anger part and that's ok. The key is letting it out in a healthy way (you need an outlet).... perhaps a unisex gym

 

Just know that the 5 stages of grief aren't a straight line. There is a bit of back and forth. Then the final one is acceptance and I truly believe you will find peace once you reach it. TC