Consolidated Discussion - Older/younger woman/man and age gap dating

[RonaldS]

I have dated overweight men. Most are not physically active. I have come across a couple who ARE physically active... Even run marathons. They chub up in the winter when not in training. They like their beer, lol.

 

I have dated bald men too. Actually, I don't find bald men any less attractive than men with hair... Provided they don't sport the comb over or bozo the clown look.

 

I have dated a guy with a legitimate micropenis. As big as my pinkie. I am not kidding. I really liked him... Instead of talking with me about it, he got mean. Very mean.

 

I have dated rich men and poor men. Tall and short.

 

But I won't date a much older guy. Having worked around them my entire life. I have had the benefit of seeing that dynamic upfront and personal. I say benefit... Because I didn't need to date them to see what it was all about.

 

Nor will I date a man with a history that demonstrates lack of discipline or responsibility... In all the myriad ways that manifests itself. Including men with a history of dating much younger women. They lose all credibility with me.

 

Like I said... Lots of guys are used to not being judged for their dating choices... Well, too bad. Smart women are not going to overlook it.

 

I'm curious about some of the metrics you use to determine date-worthiness. For instance, what constitutes 'a history of dating much younger women?'. Are we talking 50 year old guys going after 20 year old girls, or what? Wait, you wouldn't date a 50 year old, so in your eligible pool of guys roughly your age or younger (I'm guessing you're probably 35 or so), we're talking about, what? 35 year old guys dating 25 year olds? What are the ranges?

 

If a guy is late 30s and has dated some women who are 10+ years younger, does he not make the cut? Has he demonstated a history of dating much younger women? Do you know the story behind that man dating younger women? Or is it just easier to write a person off for violating one of the infractions in your date-worthiness handbook?

 

I say this because it seems like you've dated a lot of guys. It doesn't appear any of them have worked out. OK...now what's the common denominator in all of your dating experiences?

 

And are you helping or hurting your self by cutting people out automatically based on general metrics that may or may not really even be relevant?

[RedRobin]

But did they actually get anywhere?

 

 

No, they didn't. You'll need to see the other thread... or maybe it is earlier in this thread... since it was merged.

 

 

Look, most of the time, the only message these women you think I should give credit to, is usually some older guy feeding them BS about how much better they are than men their same age and younger. Society packs in that message too, since most movies and media are owned by men.

 

 

So, I think it is time women get to hear another message.

 

 

At least that way they are making an informed choice. By having this discussion, a few get to witness the hypocrisy spouted by these guys and know what to look for if/when an older guy does approach them.

 

 

I hope these guys keep talking... talk, talk, talk. Their true colors come out soon enough.

[thefooloftheyear]

But did they actually get anywhere?

 

Older men tried when I was in my 20s. They didn't get anywhere. In some cases, looking back with maturity, I took advantage of them in small ways, knowing full well that they were helpful because of my youth and beauty. I even got free legal services

 

Give women credit. They aren't children, and they aren't fools.

 

Good point....and it reminded me of a period of my past....

 

When I was in college, I worked the door as a bouncer in a bunch of well known NYC nightclubs...Also tended bar..I couldnt count the amount of times I was handed telephone numbers on the back of cocktail napkins from coked up party girls looking for fun...And most of them were 30+(I was in my early 20's)...

 

I made my own decisions and acted in a gentlemanly manner...It never altered my view on women, nor did I carry it around like some of the other posters do...In fact, It had just about erased from my memory before reading this post...

 

Its no big deal....Just another chapter in one's life..

 

 

TFY

[RedRobin]

I'm curious about some of the metrics you use to determine date-worthiness. For instance, what constitutes 'a history of dating much younger women?'. Are we talking 50 year old guys going after 20 year old girls, or what? Wait, you wouldn't date a 50 year old, so in your eligible pool of guys roughly your age or younger (I'm guessing you're probably 35 or so), we're talking about, what? 35 year old guys dating 25 year olds? What are the ranges?

 

If a guy is late 30s and has dated some women who are 10+ years younger, does he not make the cut? Has he demonstated a history of dating much younger women? Do you know the story behind that man dating younger women? Or is it just easier to write a person off for violating one of the infractions in your date-worthiness handbook?

 

I say this because it seems like you've dated a lot of guys. It doesn't appear any of them have worked out. OK...now what's the common denominator in all of your dating experiences?

 

And are you helping or hurting your self by cutting people out automatically based on general metrics that may or may not really even be relevant?

 

 

These are questions for your (as you say) Tinder hoes...

[RedRobin]

Good point....and it reminded me of a period of my past....

 

When I was in college, I worked the door as a bouncer in a bunch of well known NYC nightclubs...Also tended bar..I couldnt count the amount of times I was handed telephone numbers on the back of cocktail napkins from coked up party girls looking for fun...And most of them were 30+(I was in my early 20's)...

 

I made my own decisions and acted in a gentlemanly manner...It never altered my view on women, nor did I carry it around like some of the other posters do...In fact, It had just about erased from my memory before reading this post...

 

Its no big deal....Just another chapter in one's life..

 

 

TFY

 

 

Did any of them threaten to have you fired or your career put in jeopardy if you didn't go along with their requests?? Imagine the finesse I've had to develop over the years to successfully wiggle out of these situations with not only my integrity intact, but my career intact too...

 

 

I've listed a number of incidents where it wasn't merely an inconvenience... and in different work environments, both work and school.

 

 

This is not uncommon among women in an all male field. We just don't talk about it.

 

 

You can't even begin to compare yourself to me or them... although you'd like to try.

 

 

But go ahead and minimize it, say it doesn't exist, say my experience is an anomaly, tell me I'm jealous, whatever else it takes to exempt you from personal responsibility, dude.

 

 

You have a daughter, so I know it is only a matter of time before you get a clue. Or at least, I hope so.

[Under The Radar]

Good point....and it reminded me of a period of my past....

 

When I was in college, I worked the door as a bouncer in a bunch of well known NYC nightclubs...Also tended bar..I couldnt count the amount of times I was handed telephone numbers on the back of cocktail napkins from coked up party girls looking for fun...And most of them were 30+(I was in my early 20's)...

 

I made my own decisions and acted in a gentlemanly manner...It never altered my view on women, nor did I carry it around like some of the other posters do...In fact, It had just about erased from my memory before reading this post...

 

Its no big deal....Just another chapter in one's life..

 

 

TFY

 

 

 

I get your post ......

 

 

However, it's doubtful the women offering up their phone numbers were in a position of power or played a mentorship role in YOUR life.

 

 

RR's biggest gripe is that HER experiences have been very much the opposite ...... men using positions of power, authority, or teaching to take advantage of her for their own gain.

 

 

EDIT: Looks like she beat me to it.

[thefooloftheyear]

I get your post ......

 

 

However, it's doubtful the women offering up their phone numbers were in a position of power or played a mentorship role in YOUR life.

 

 

RR's biggest gripe is that HER experiences have been very much the opposite ...... men using positions of power, authority, or teaching to take advantage of her for their own gain.

 

 

EDIT: Looks like she beat me to it.

 

Fine...

 

But really..? On the one hand, she comes across as a very strong and self assured woman....then talks about how douchebag guys manipulated her and destroyed her trust in all men..Doesnt make that much sense......In the workplace, the stuff shes talking about would put a guy on the 5 O' clock news these days...Its not the 50's anymore...

 

I dunno..Nowhere was I minimizing her experiences...Id never disrespect her in that way..Dont know why she is being so defensive...*shrug*

 

There are women in my life that I am very close with that have been absolutely shyt on by men..,Yet, you never hear them chirping or carrying a chip on their shoulders....or dismiss all men as aszholes..

 

 

TFY

[RedRobin]

Fine...

 

But really..? On the one hand, she comes across as a very strong and self assured woman....then talks about how douchebag guys manipulated her and destroyed her trust in all men..Doesnt make that much sense......In the workplace, the stuff shes talking about would put a guy on the 5 O' clock news these days...Its not the 50's anymore...

 

I dunno..Nowhere was I minimizing her experiences...Id never disrespect her in that way..Dont know why she is being so defensive...*shrug*

 

There are women in my life that I am very close with that have been absolutely shyt on by men..,Yet, you never hear them chirping or carrying a chip on their shoulders....or dismiss all men as aszholes..

 

 

TFY

 

 

No, I don't dismiss all men as aszholes... Guess you choose to selectively ignore the parts where I say positive things about the men in my life. Was I manipulated? No. That's the point. I shouldn't have had to deal with it at all.

 

The ones who need to date or go after much younger women... yes... I consider them aszholes... absolutely.

 

I believe that their 'preferences' create a negative dating, work, and educational environment for the vast majority of women due to the still prevalent idea that we women are somehow responsible for that attention... and that younger women (of any age) are merely sexual objects.

 

Here is something else you are obviously clueless about... It's not the 1950's?? Sure, there are a handful of prominent cases that made life very difficult for a few men. But what I can attest to, what I've witnessed, and other women have experienced is this...

 

 

Unless you have a video and umpteen firsthand witnesses of a guy basically attempting rape or the equivalent, she had better keep her mouth shut... because it goes nowhere. All she has done is open herself up to more harassment and people claiming she made it up, or she is oversensitive (like this thread), or she did something to invite it.

 

 

The military is proof. Columbia University is another recent example I heard in the news just yesterday.

 

 

You are so damn clueless. Better wake the eff up soon for your daughter's sake.

Edited April 26, 2014 by RedRobin

[RonaldS]

These are questions for your (as you say) Tinder hoes...

 

Haha! Good to see you're paying attention. You were part of the target market I had in mind when I made that comment. That being said, I just enjoyed a low-key Friday night. No Tinder ho busting.

 

Back to the post....

 

No, those are actually questions specifically for you. That's why I asked you. When you reveal interesting, relevant information about yourself, it's natural that it will evoke curiosity from people reading your posts.

 

So, I just wondered what your framework for judgement on that matter is. That's all. Unlike others here, I'm not trying to rattle your cage. Just curious.

Edited April 26, 2014 by RonaldS

[123321]

Statistics show that 7% of marriages are between people with large age gaps. I consider that statistic to be valid.

 

If someone told you your odds of dying tomorrow were 1 in 14, would you consider that a small number? It's all about perspective and personally 1 in 14 works fine for me. I suspect many others feel similarly, even if that statistic is accurate, which based on some of your previous sources I have reservation about.

[123321]

.... the only message these women you think I should give credit to, is usually some older guy feeding them BS about how much better they are than men their same age and younger. Society packs in that message too ...

 

Well I know I'm dating hotter women the last decade than I was when I was 19, and really my experience is the one I know best and care most about. I sure as hell don't intend to use OLD to date my way across America, of all the pathetic plans.

[Under The Radar]

Fine...

 

But really..? On the one hand, she comes across as a very strong and self assured woman....then talks about how douchebag guys manipulated her and destroyed her trust in all men..Doesnt make that much sense......In the workplace, the stuff shes talking about would put a guy on the 5 O' clock news these days...Its not the 50's anymore...

 

I dunno..Nowhere was I minimizing her experiences...Id never disrespect her in that way..Dont know why she is being so defensive...*shrug*

 

There are women in my life that I am very close with that have been absolutely shyt on by men..,Yet, you never hear them chirping or carrying a chip on their shoulders....or dismiss all men as aszholes..

 

 

TFY

 

 

I respect your viewpoint and don't believe you are minimizing RR's experiences ......

 

 

I suspect the most egregious scenarios for RR, that we are discussing, occurred years ago ...... when she was younger, less experienced, and far more naïve.

 

 

I have no doubt that situations with would be offenders, sexual harassment, and violations of power ...... originating from men in her workplace, still exist ...... requiring her to be "on guard". However, it seems as if she has learned, the hard way, to survive in that type of environment. It's incredibly frustrating to be unsure of people's intentions, all while remaining stoic, every day of one's life. Purposely being mislead, by seemingly trustworthy individuals, can no doubt become exhausting over time.

 

 

I am not always a fan of the delivery, but the message is loud and clear: Women can and will be taken advantage of by older men in positions of power (especially in a male dominated field). Not by all men, but by SOME men, and that is enough for younger women to be forewarned (something RR was not privy to as a nubile inductee to life, dating, and her chosen career).

 

 

 

Yes, things have improved greatly for women, in this country, since the 1950's ...... just like racism has improved dramatically since the 1960's. Nevertheless, we can all agree that their is a difference between overt, in your face racism, and covert institutional racism. Both are clearly not good, but it's much harder to defend oneself against the latter. Despite significant advances towards shattering the "glass ceiling", many women can experience discrimination, of a sexual nature, by higher ups in the corporate world or universities ...... similar to my institutional racism analogy.

 

 

RR is passionate in spreading the message to others who may be harmed because of this lack of experience. I'm positive RR isn't a misandrist ...... just a little frustrated.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Training Revelations

[RedRobin]

If someone told you your odds of dying tomorrow were 1 in 14, would you consider that a small number? It's all about perspective and personally 1 in 14 works fine for me. I suspect many others feel similarly, even if that statistic is accurate, which based on some of your previous sources I have reservation about.

 

 

All about perspective, you say?

 

 

OK. In the US, roughly 1 in 20 people are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.

 

 

About 1 in 25 men are on the sociopath/psychopath scale according to a recent article in Psychology Today.

 

 

So, if there were 28 totally random people in a room... then, theoretically, one of them would be a psychopath....At least one would be LGBT, and two would be in large age gap relationship/marriage.

 

 

... and that is assuming that they don't fit multiple criteria. I mean, it is possible (these days) that the large age gap marriages occur between same sex. Right?

 

 

Maybe the large age gap guy is a sociopath/psychopath too... That certainly has been MY experience anyway.

[RedRobin]

I sure as hell don't intend to use OLD to date my way across America, of all the pathetic plans.

 

 

Number one, you couldn't if you wanted to.

 

 

And number two, why not? A girl has to eat! (just kidding)

[ThaWholigan]

OK...

 

Can a older man/younger woman dynamic ever be organic? I ask the same of older woman/younger man seeing as my mother is in a similar relationship.

 

It seems we only ever reference the "predators" as though this is the only dynamic that exists. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're biologically predisposed to equate youth to beauty at all times. But I suppose I reserve judgement on age-gap relationships at first.

[RonaldS]

Number one, you couldn't if you wanted to.

 

Oh, that's cold.

[thefooloftheyear]

I respect your viewpoint and don't believe you are minimizing RR's experiences ......

 

 

I suspect the most egregious scenarios for RR, that we are discussing, occurred years ago ...... when she was younger, less experienced, and far more naïve.

 

 

I have no doubt that situations with would be offenders, sexual harassment, and violations of power ...... originating from men in her workplace, still exist ...... requiring her to be "on guard". However, it seems as if she has learned, the hard way, to survive in that type of environment. It's incredibly frustrating to be unsure of people's intentions, all while remaining stoic, every day of one's life. Purposely being mislead, by seemingly trustworthy individuals, can no doubt become exhausting over time.

 

 

I am not always a fan of the delivery, but the message is loud and clear: Women can and will be taken advantage of by older men in positions of power (especially in a male dominated field). Not by all men, but by SOME men, and that is enough for younger women to be forewarned (something RR was not privy to as a nubile inductee to life, dating, and her chosen career).

 

 

 

Yes, things have improved greatly for women, in this country, since the 1950's ...... just like racism has improved dramatically since the 1960's. Nevertheless, we can all agree that their is a difference between overt, in your face racism, and covert institutional racism. Both are clearly not good, but it's much harder to defend oneself against the latter. Despite significant advances towards shattering the "glass ceiling", many women can experience discrimination, of a sexual nature, by higher ups in the corporate world or universities ...... similar to my institutional racism analogy.

 

 

RR is passionate in spreading the message to others who may be harmed because of this lack of experience. I'm positive RR isn't a misandrist ...... just a little frustrated.

 

 

Thats all fine, its a well written post and I agree with all of it..but we really are veering wayyy off the track here...

 

The most laughable part of all of this is someone like myself will always be the last one on any "predators" list...I dont hit on women and never have...I know it sounds shocking...I just dont..I feel ridiculously uncomfortable with it and the thought of it makes my skin crawl...I am dead serious..And I have ALWAYS acted in an appropriate and gentlemanly manner around women...

 

I guess all I wanted to point out is why do people(middle aged women particularly) care if a middle aged guy decides to be with a younger woman? Why does it touch such a nerve? Again, lets leave out the predators...Lets just talk about just regular people now..Why do they get stigmatized?...

 

Im not saying this is true of any poster here..but this is something I have gleaned from my years of experience on this planet and dealing with people on an everyday basis..

 

When women are at their peak in terms of desirability, they have absolutely NO problem playing "unfair"....They have the attention of every swinging dick within a 100 mile radius, so they will totally ignore good but average guys their own age, will drop guys for practically no or frivolous reasons, date older men, date rich guys, whatever their little hearts desire...Its their game and they are the gatekeepers...

 

But then as they have gotten older,have a few miles, and maybe the guys arent falling at their feet anymore, its like all of a sudden, now the rules have to be fair and equitable so they dont get slighted...If a good and deisirable guy their age prefers the company of a younger woman, they are douchebags and "emotionally stunted"...It just reeks of sore loser mentality...

 

.02

 

TFY

Edited April 26, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[gaius]

Can a older man/younger woman dynamic ever be organic? I ask the same of older woman/younger man seeing as my mother is in a similar relationship.

When I did OLD briefly I got winked at by a 54 year old. Which I think makes her older than my mother? She was cute so I sent her a message and she turned out to be so argumentative and pigheaded that I most certainly would have dated her if my ex and I didn't end up kind of getting back together. I had a distinct urge to talk to her over any of the other younger women I interacted with.

 

But I guess that would have been wrong.

[ThaWholigan]

When I did OLD briefly I got winked at by a 54 year old. Which I think makes her older than my mother? She was cute so I sent her a message and she turned out to be so argumentative and pigheaded that I most certainly would have dated her if my ex and I didn't end up kind of getting back together. I had a distinct urge to talk to her over any of the other younger women I interacted with.

 

But I guess that would have been wrong.

If it makes you feel any better, I had a few women in their 30s to 50s on OLD contact me about f-cking them while their husbands watched them with a "black bull" .

[Keenly]

Oh I see you got the memo.

 

1. Even though they passed you up for all the "bad" boys and friendzoned you in your 20s... That doesn't matter.

 

2. It's not their fault they are that way, it's solely the mans.

 

3. Your punishment for being a man is to subject yourself to lifetime of no sex, bitching, complaining and be her whipping boy.

 

4. Your preferences don't matter when it is inconvenient to her.

 

5. Your lot in life is to date women your age or older no matter what.

 

Now that they are starting to come to terms with their aging and declining value in the dating game... She is turning to her "sure thing", you. She is making her final stake for lifetime security and provisioning. (But they will tell you they are not being superficial or shallow when selecting a victim... I mean mate by his annual income)

 

It's about her and selfish needs. Love has nothing to do with it. If she can't have it, you or anyone else isn't either if she has her way.

 

You have a thing for lists, don't you?

 

 

It would seem the only answer we keep getting about two people being together that want to be together is because its its icky.

[RedRobin]

If a good and desirable guy their age prefers the company of a younger woman, they are douchebags and "emotionally stunted"...It just reeks of sore loser mentality...

 

 

My opinion about men who prefer the company of a younger woman has never changed. Not when I was younger, and not now.

 

 

I didn't want the attention of every single swinging dick in a 100 mile radius (still don't), nor did I act like the women you talk about. Ever.

 

I don't consider those men to be good and desirable. In fact, one of the bonuses of OLD is that I can avoid them... the ones with the skewed age ranges...... even if they are in MY target age range. I don't have to go on however many dates to figure out what their real preferences are.

 

There are still lots of old coots I could shack up with anytime I like. How does that make me jealous exactly??

 

Mostly, I think some of you guys want us to feel afraid of dying old and alone and just settle for your sorry asses... THAT is more like it...

Edited April 26, 2014 by RedRobin

[gaius]

Oh I see you got the memo.

 

1. Even though they passed you up for all the "bad" boys and friendzoned you in your 20s... That doesn't matter.

 

2. It's not their fault they are that way, it's solely the mans.

 

3. Your punishment for being a man is to subject yourself to lifetime of no sex, bitching, complaining and be her whipping boy.

 

4. Your preferences don't matter when it is inconvenient to her.

 

5. Your lot in life is to date women your age or older no matter what.

 

Now that they are starting to come to terms with their aging and declining value in the dating game... She is turning to her "sure thing", you. She is making her final stake for lifetime security and provisioning. (But they will tell you they are not being superficial or shallow when selecting a victim... I mean mate by his annual income)

 

It's about her and selfish needs. Love has nothing to do with it. If she can't have it, you or anyone else isn't either if she has her way.

I think you might be projecting a little bit. I've never had any issues with friendzones or older women. Except when I was fat. And I might like argumentative women but I always win in the end.

If it makes you feel any better, I had a few women in their 30s to 50s on OLD contact me about f-cking them while their husbands watched them with a "black bull" .

I can't figure out whether I'd like that or not if I was in your place. haha.

[Under The Radar]

Thats all fine, its a well written post and I agree with all of it..but we really are veering wayyy off the track here...

 

The most laughable part of all of this is someone like myself will always be the last one on any "predators" list...I dont hit on women and never have...I know it sounds shocking...I just dont..I feel ridiculously uncomfortable with it and the thought of it makes my skin crawl...I am dead serious..And I have ALWAYS acted in an appropriate and gentlemanly manner around women...

 

I guess all I wanted to point out is why do people(middle aged women particularly) care if a middle aged guy decides to be with a younger woman? Why does it touch such a nerve? Again, lets leave out the predators...Lets just talk about just regular people now..Why do they get stigmatized?...

 

Im not saying this is true of any poster here..but this is something I have gleaned from my years of experience on this planet and dealing with people on an everyday basis..

 

When women are at their peak in terms of desirability, they have absolutely NO problem playing "unfair"....They have the attention of every swinging dick within a 100 mile radius, so they will totally ignore good but average guys their own age, will drop guys for practically no or frivolous reasons, date older men, date rich guys, whatever their little hearts desire...Its their game and they are the gatekeepers...

 

But then as they have gotten older,have a few miles, and maybe the guys arent falling at their feet anymore, its like all of a sudden, now the rules have to be fair and equitable so they dont get slighted...If a good and deisirable guy their age prefers the company of a younger woman, they are douchebags and "emotionally stunted"...It just reeks of sore loser mentality...

 

.02

 

TFY

 

 

Understood.

 

 

I will say that on a *personal* level, discounting any possible manipulation or abuse, I'm not against age gap relationships.

 

 

If both parties are willful participants and treat each other well ...... that's their prerogative ...... live and let live.

 

 

It's not *my* "cup of tea", but I would not expect everyone else to share my preferences.

[Weezy1973]

The thing is, the "angry" women in this thread actually have a lot right - at least in terms of stats:

 

Large age gap relationships are indeed much less likely to succeed than those aged closer together. This is also just common sense - similarities tend to have better results in relationships than do differences. Interestingly, in terms of large age gaps relationships, older woman - younger man is the least successful.

 

Men that are only attracted to or want a relationship with younger women, women that are only attracted to or want a relationship with older men, women that are only attracted to or want a relationship with a younger man and men that are only attracted to or want a relationship with an older woman are all likely to have some sort of issue when it comes to relationships.

 

Put into simpler terms, people whose preference is for someone that is a bad choice in terms of relationship success, are likely bad relationship partners themselves. Another example of this would be people that are attracted to emotionally unavailable partners.

 

That being said, I've never actually met anyone where age is a major attractor one way or the other. I mean, I'm sure they exist - and they probably come to the fore in OLD, but in the real world, I've never met one. I really think people are making a much bigger deal of something that really doesn't happen much in the real world. And as Kathy has pointed out, only about 7% of marriage are of large age-gaps, so why the big fuss?

[melodymatters]

Originally Posted by ThaWholigan :

"Can a older man/younger woman dynamic ever be organic? I ask the same of older woman/younger man "

 

 

 

CAN it be ?!? Darling, that is the only way for it to be, for it happen in the first place, for it to evolve and be healthy and enriching for both parties....GEE it sounds a little bit like..... every other damn relationship !

 

I argue it is MORE organic because in the very beginning everyone is ignoring their usual "laundry lists" a little more and not putting too many expectations on it. So, that when it does turn out to be amazing and magical it's like "WOW, HOLY SHYTE:eek:

 

I'm starting to think about talking to the mods about possibly separating this thread into two. One for people's theoretical thoughts, feelings and opinions about age gap matters. And a second more practical one, for people living their lives daily withing a permanent age gap relationship and the actual good, bad, and funny parts of it. Give each other real advice and share our experiences. I could personally benefit from that, rather than continue to be aggravated by peoples wildly speculative projections and prejudices.