Consolidated Discussion - Older/younger woman/man and age gap dating

[RedRobin]

No, I mean they subconsciously view their age as a fault. They're insecure about it, but they don't realize they are, so then they project blame onto others for making value judgements of them based on their age, and then get mad at others (eg men who prefer younger women).

 

The reality is that they're actually the ones making the value judgements of themselves, and don't realize that it isn't the age that's turning men off....it's the attitude.

 

I have no issue at all with women my age or older, from an attraction POV. I have a client who is 53, and I would absolutely DESTROY her. That's 13 years older, and 'old' by most metrics. But in my experience in dating older women, many have that sh*tty aforementioned attitude, and it's just a turn off. All things being equal, I would rather spend my time with a woman who isn't penalizing me for her perceived lack of interest from men due to her age...self-fulfilling prophetic as it typically is. I'll just hang out with a 28 year old who isn't bitter yet.

 

Some might, sure. To be fair, I have witnessed both men and women exhibit plenty of insecurity about their age... It just manifests itself indifferent ways.

 

When women feel old, they get plastic surgery and become introspective. That is how we are socialized.

 

When men feel old, they get a young girlfriend, instead of... And perhaps to avoid being introspective.

 

Here is something else I noticed. My standards have not changed one bit as I have gotten older. The only difference is that guys with your preferences are more likely to do that work for a 28 year old... Heck... Even MORE work. At least for a little while until you think you have her hooked... Then you slip back into your same old ways.

 

Take that same woman... Tack 20 years onto her... Same personality... Same values... Same interests... Same 'fun' .... And you would perceive her as bitter, jaded, or whatever, for having those exact same values and her expecting you to earn her love (and vice versa) as much as that same 28 year old might. Not to mention having the wisdom to see through guys who are less than sincere in their goals. That is definitely something that comes with age. For both men and women.

 

Thing is, you expect women your own age and older not to have standards. You expect them to be grateful that you even considered them. So it is you who is projecting.

[RedRobin]

So 'debonair' George has been 'tamed', while 'tragic' Jen was 'saved' ? no surprise there | Hadley Freeman | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

 

 

This. There's an age gap there, so that's on-topic for this thread, but I love the entire article, that goes along with similar jabs that are made towards women all over these boards, and offline.

 

I agree with you about the difference in coverage between Jennifer and George.

 

That's too bad for George's fiancée. She could have done better. I have no idea why any woman with half a brain would settle for a guy like George... At any age.

 

Could be wrong, but don't be surprised if she doesn't follow through with it. It is a lot more likely that someone in her position and her heritage did not wish to be viewed as one more of George's playthings. I look at this as more like dating with a deadline, lol.

 

It was either buy a ring or adios... Is my bet.

[melodymatters]

In a last, desperate, futile attempt to get this misbegotten thread back on topic:

 

IS ANYONE HERE IN AN EXCLUSIVE AGE GAP RELATIONSHIP where one of you is at least 10 yrs older ? Like, a REAL relationship, not a story about a friend of a nephew or a past stalker, or the fact that "you could if you wanted to" or " were offended when they tried", are you in a real BF/GF or H/W age gap relationship ?

 

If not, it's fine, but please realize, it's 80 something pages of blind people talking about the color purple to me...

 

Guess my age gap marriage is smooth sailing so I'll step back and watch people debate hypotheticals and post in the normal, every day marriage thread if we DO happen to have any every day, normal marriage problems.

 

Good luck all ! I'll probably keep perusing this for my car crash of the day fix !

[123321]

IS ANYONE HERE IN AN EXCLUSIVE AGE GAP RELATIONSHIP where one of you is at least 10 yrs older ? Like, a REAL relationship, not a story ...

 

*Raises hand.*

 

I'm late 40s, she's mid 20s.

[RedRobin]

Interestingly, it is men's abuse of the older man/younger woman dynamic that has made things tougher for everyone...

 

 

There are very, very few incidents of predatory older women, pedophiles, rapists, harrassers, violent, etc. at any age.

 

 

Therefore, I don't view relationships between older women and younger men to be nearly is lopsided or sick as the opposite.

 

 

I agree with the other poster who pointed out the lopsided tendency for some women to overlook older men's baggage... which tends to support my observation that women who end up with older men ARE more insecure, desperate, and settling... even if they don't see themselves that way. Not the strong, empowered 'catches' (who happen to be younger) that these older men would like to believe they have attracted.

 

 

So, single ladies. Take a look around. Take a look at how these guys really feel... and act. And have acted. Toward lots of women. Before you date that older guy... and especially before you marry one.

 

 

Ask yourself why oh why you'd want to make life better for a guy who wouldn't do the same for you if you were his same age or had his experience or 'baggage'.

 

 

On the other hand, if you also want to believe that your older sisters are jealous, jaded... or anything else these guys want to pitch in order to get you to go along with them and feel 'special'... well, then you deserve what you get. Don't ask us to feel too sorry for you later on when these dirtbags turn out to be exactly what I and others told you they are.

[Weezy1973]

There are very, very few incidents of predatory older women, pedophiles, rapists, harrassers, violent, etc. at any age.

 

That has nothing to do with age. There are just way more male sexual predators than women.

 

And as has been said explicitly before - NOBODY condones the behaviours in your quote. I would love for those people to all be locked up.

 

But, as has also been said - that is also totally unrelated to age-gap relationships. Why can't you figure that one out?

[MidwestUSA]

There's a South American tribe in the Amazon rain forest that actually practices a form of this (saw it on PBS years ago). An older adult female will have 2 husbands for a year or so, one of them much younger, so he can learn what the requirements for a good husband are, while the older male helps w/the children & gets a break from hunting all the time. Why are we so "civilized"? This is essentially what the polygamous marriages they show on tv are doing (not to mention the FLDS compounds in the western U.S.). If it's good enough for men then why not us women too?

 

Very interesting, but not sure how it fits into this thread. I will say that the poster you quoted sounds like a user who has no respect for men. I hope you pulled that old quote (2011, really?) from a thread about fantasies.

[RedRobin]

Interesting. Plenty of posts from men claiming age doesn't matter... when in their posts, they explain in great detail why age clearly DOES matter.

 

 

Her age matters. His doesn't.

 

 

... and I agree that anyone teaches them how to treat him/her. A younger woman who dates or marries an older man is teaching herself that, for some reason, she is not worthy of a same age peer she can spend her life with. She is teaching that older man and any older man she is with that he can succeed at stealing her youth for his own benefit.

 

 

These men who claim that younger women are more attractive, happy, fun, or less damaged... have done plenty to create the kind of damage they supposedly hate in women when witnessed.

 

 

The reason they go younger is so that it easier to create more. Much like owners of sweat shops who need to keep going to poorer countries for cheaper and cheaper labor.

 

 

If I read about the experiences of men with these preferences on this thread, alot of them seem to be going through women like toilet paper. Or trying to. Not sure how that makes them worthy of the 'love' they seek to claim or manipulate from younger women.

[KathyM]

 

One of the perks of a woman in her 20s... How screwed up can she really be?

 

This is one of the attractions / advantages and why older men like them excluding they are more attractive, happy, more fun and still "loves" love.

Of the women I know who were in relationships with much older men (15+ years older), who are in their 20s currently, all of those women are very attractive women, but they are all really screwed up. One is schizophrenic. One has BPD. One has long term depression and low self esteem. One was abandoned by both parents at an early age. One (my niece) has daddy issues because her father was absent in her life. Not a single one is emotionally healthy. That's not to say that no young person in an age gap relationship is emotionally healthy, but likely many of them are not.

[thefooloftheyear]

Interesting. Plenty of posts from men claiming age doesn't matter... when in their posts, they explain in great detail why age clearly DOES matter.

 

 

Her age matters. His doesn't.

 

 

... and I agree that anyone teaches them how to treat him/her. A younger woman who dates or marries an older man is teaching herself that, for some reason, she is not worthy of a same age peer she can spend her life with. She is teaching that older man and any older man she is with that he can succeed at stealing her youth for his own benefit.

 

 

These men who claim that younger women are more attractive, happy, fun, or less damaged... have done plenty to create the kind of damage they supposedly hate in women when witnessed.

 

 

The reason they go younger is so that it easier to create more. Much like owners of sweat shops who need to keep going to poorer countries for cheaper and cheaper labor.

 

 

If I read about the experiences of men with these preferences on this thread, alot of them seem to be going through women like toilet paper. Or trying to. Not sure how that makes them worthy of the 'love' they seek to claim or manipulate from younger women.

 

 

I agree with most of your post.....however see the bolded part..

 

While its certainly plausible that what you are saying is true, its also equally plausible that she doesnt find what she needs from her peers that are age "appropriate"....Doesnt necessarily mean she is settling or lowering her standards by seeking a man from a different age bracket..

 

Lets face it...You even said it yourself..You claim you cant find guys your age that meet your requirements...If you continue to have no success, then why woud it immediately be a crime if you went older/younger??

 

Not sure I get it...

 

PS...I do see your point in the guys that immediately target the much younger women..To each his own, but I dont really get that...

 

TFY

[Keenly]

Since the dawn of time.

 

Hot Potato didn't seem to be aware of that so I was just educating her.

 

From what she has said, she is often times surprised when a man tells her that he is interested in her, propositioned for sex, guys touch her inappropriately, etc.

 

If she is accepting dates, going to movies with these guys, going to dinners and letting them buy her things and think these men are doing it "just because" with no hope in a romantic or physical relationship in in mind... I think that naive.

 

If this is the case, am I the only one is surprised she is experiencing what she is?

 

Interesting. Plenty of posts from men claiming age doesn't matter... when in their posts, they explain in great detail why age clearly DOES matter.

 

 

Her age matters. His doesn't.

 

 

... and I agree that anyone teaches them how to treat him/her. A younger woman who dates or marries an older man is teaching herself that, for some reason, she is not worthy of a same age peer she can spend her life with. She is teaching that older man and any older man she is with that he can succeed at stealing her youth for his own benefit.

 

 

These men who claim that younger women are more attractive, happy, fun, or less damaged... have done plenty to create the kind of damage they supposedly hate in women when witnessed.

 

 

The reason they go younger is so that it easier to create more. Much like owners of sweat shops who need to keep going to poorer countries for cheaper and cheaper labor.

 

 

If I read about the experiences of men with these preferences on this thread, alot of them seem to be going through women like toilet paper. Or trying to. Not sure how that makes them worthy of the 'love' they seek to claim or manipulate from younger women.

 

 

So.... we are blaming men for a young woman that chooses to Marry an older man now? He is responsible for the damage?

 

 

 

You just don't seem to grasp that women other than you will have different opinions. You seek to believe that all women MUST hate older men as much as you do, or else there is something mentally wrong with them.

 

.I think they have a word for that. Intolerance.

[gaius]

I was looking at a game of thrones cast picture with all the women and the one I felt myself most drawn to was Michelle Fairley. The mother. And there are some pretty attractive younger women in there.

 

Not everyone is going to have the same value system when it comes to partners. You can't think someone automatically has self-esteem issues because they don't follow your value system. I'd admire the guts of any woman in your social circle who showed up with an older guy on her arm Red.

[RonaldS]

 

Here is something else I noticed. My standards have not changed one bit as I have gotten older. The only difference is that guys with your preferences are more likely to do that work for a 28 year old... Heck... Even MORE work. At least for a little while until you think you have her hooked... Then you slip back into your same old ways.

 

Take that same woman... Tack 20 years onto her... Same personality... Same values... Same interests... Same 'fun' .... And you would perceive her as bitter, jaded, or whatever, for having those exact same values and her expecting you to earn her love (and vice versa) as much as that same 28 year old might. Not to mention having the wisdom to see through guys who are less than sincere in their goals. That is definitely something that comes with age. For both men and women.

 

Thing is, you expect women your own age and older not to have standards. You expect them to be grateful that you even considered them. So it is you who is projecting.

 

Nothing you said here makes any sense.

[gaius]

Hey, Gaius, since you like older women, Margaret Richard, famous PBS fitness guru for many years, lives in Boston now. She is divorced and available! At least take a class with her in Brookline not only to get into shape but you might meet other women as well.

 

She is very sweet and funny.

of her talking about fitness was done on her laptop and is NOT a flattering angle (one reason why I want to get a separate webcam when I buy a laptop). She is much prettier in person. She has a "hard core" following of younger men who comment about how hot she looks on every youtube clip she has.

 

Then come back and tell us about your amazing age gap relationship with her.

Eh if I was gonna start shelling out hundreds of dollars to meet someone it would be on a ticket to California to try and get you to meet me. I can't recall any dating stories out of you since that famous guy you were following on twitter.

 

Not that she hasn't kept in amazing shape. I actually started talking to a woman who says she's 45 and lives not too far from her a week ago. That definitely doesn't meet Red's acceptable age bracket.

[MidwestUSA]

Nothing you said here makes any sense.

 

Sure it does. She's describing her experience, that's all.

[RonaldS]

Interesting. Plenty of posts from men claiming age doesn't matter... when in their posts, they explain in great detail why age clearly DOES matter.

 

 

Her age matters. His doesn't.

 

 

... and I agree that anyone teaches them how to treat him/her. A younger woman who dates or marries an older man is teaching herself that, for some reason, she is not worthy of a same age peer she can spend her life with. She is teaching that older man and any older man she is with that he can succeed at stealing her youth for his own benefit.

 

 

These men who claim that younger women are more attractive, happy, fun, or less damaged... have done plenty to create the kind of damage they supposedly hate in women when witnessed.

 

 

The reason they go younger is so that it easier to create more. Much like owners of sweat shops who need to keep going to poorer countries for cheaper and cheaper labor.

 

 

If I read about the experiences of men with these preferences on this thread, alot of them seem to be going through women like toilet paper. Or trying to. Not sure how that makes them worthy of the 'love' they seek to claim or manipulate from younger women.

Again, I can only speak to my own experiences....

 

I've dated women my age and older. I've dated women a few years younger. I've dated women 15 years younger.

 

Typically, what I find when I am dating a woman my age is one of two dynamics:

 

1. Divorced with kids- these women seem to be fine overall, and while they often bear the scars of a bad marriage, or at least a bad ending to a marriage, they are often resilient and thankful to have a new lease on life. That being said, if they were the one effed over in the marriage, they can bring a lot of resentment to the table on a date. That's not really a big deal, because anybody over the age of 30 is going to be shouldering some failures somewhere.

 

Often they have kids, which is nice. It keeps them from obsessing over a guy, for the most part.

 

The only negative is when you meet those that want to make up for one failure by trying to recreate the life they had, but with a new person. The guy becomes a means to an end. They want that security set up as they age, that partner, the life they had, etc. Sometimes they try too hard to get it.

 

2. Women who have never been married, never had kids- this gets treacherous. We get a lot of what Charles Barkley did late in his career....run around signing contracts with teams just trying to win that NBA championship before his career ends. The motivations for their actions are not nearly as opaque as the women want them to be. The clock is ticking, and moves have to be made.

 

On top of that, having not been married, they often seem to have gone from one short LTR to another. By that, I mean a string of 2 or 3 year relationships (if that), with a ton of dating and screwing around going on for 20+ years. They have little patience for anything but that relationship that is to hopefully be their last. No time for games anymore.

 

Here's the problem....if they are going after similarly aged men, a lot of times, those men are like me: divorced, kids, and in absolutely no hurry to lock in with somebody again. And if the man is like me and totally independent (ie can manage his household, cooking, cleaning, paying bills, taking care of kids, doesn't need much companionship), then they're even less likely to lock into a relationship with any woman, but particularly one who has all of these items yet to be crossed off on her 'life list'.

 

Those are incongruent modalities. For me, it just doesn't work. And unless a woman had a very compelling reason for having not gotten married/had kids by a certain age (eg tracking blue whale migration patterns across the Pacific her entire adult life), then I become leery of that woman as a prospect. What they say is, 'I haven't met the right man yet', but whT they mean is 'No man is good enough for me and I'm not going to compromise one iota'. That has left them without that life they seem to want, and then they become bitter. Then they meet a guy like me who doesn't want that stuff, and then I'm just 'playing games', and they don't have time for games.

 

That incongruency is almost unnavigable for me. Really not even worth the time. Better in my life stage to just hang out with some younger women who just don't care as much. Hanging out can be relaxing and fun, and without a ton of pressure.

 

Again, these are my experiences.

[RedRobin]

So.... we are blaming men for a young woman that chooses to Marry an older man now? He is responsible for the damage?

 

You just don't seem to grasp that women other than you will have different opinions. You seek to believe that all women MUST hate older men as much as you do, or else there is something mentally wrong with them.

 

.I think they have a word for that. Intolerance.

 

 

Absolutely. He should know better.

 

 

... and I don't hate older men at all. I just don't feel the need or desire to sexualize my interactions with them.

Edited May 1, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[RedRobin]

Nothing you said here makes any sense.

 

 

Sure it does. Here is an example. You meet two women. One is in her 40's, the other in her 20's. Her personality is the same. Values the same. 'Fun' loving the same. Both are fit and healthy.... You go out on a few dates....

 

 

Middle aged woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = potentially menopausal, bitter, jaded.

 

 

20 something woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = high standards, high quality, 'relationship material'.

 

 

same woman, same values.... middle aged man projects negative attributes to the middle aged woman's behavior based on what his own fears and desires are that have nothing whatsoever to do with the woman.

[sillyanswer]

Absolutely. He should know better.

 

Can't the woman also be responsible for her actions and decisions and choices?

[Keenly]

Absolutely. He should know better.

 

 

... and I don't hate older men at all. I just don't feel the need or desire to sexualize my interactions with them.

 

So she has no personal responsibility whatsoever?

 

 

I thought you were a big advocate of independent women... but here it sounds like you make women out to be helpless and unable to think for themselves.

[RedRobin]

Again, I can only speak to my own experiences....

 

I've dated women my age and older. I've dated women a few years younger. I've dated women 15 years younger.

 

Typically, what I find when I am dating a woman my age is one of two dynamics:

 

1. Divorced with kids- these women seem to be fine overall, and while they often bear the scars of a bad marriage, or at least a bad ending to a marriage, they are often resilient and thankful to have a new lease on life. That being said, if they were the one effed over in the marriage, they can bring a lot of resentment to the table on a date. That's not really a big deal, because anybody over the age of 30 is going to be shouldering some failures somewhere.

 

Often they have kids, which is nice. It keeps them from obsessing over a guy, for the most part.

 

The only negative is when you meet those that want to make up for one failure by trying to recreate the life they had, but with a new person. The guy becomes a means to an end. They want that security set up as they age, that partner, the life they had, etc. Sometimes they try too hard to get it.

 

2. Women who have never been married, never had kids- this gets treacherous. We get a lot of what Charles Barkley did late in his career....run around signing contracts with teams just trying to win that NBA championship before his career ends. The motivations for their actions are not nearly as opaque as the women want them to be. The clock is ticking, and moves have to be made.

 

On top of that, having not been married, they often seem to have gone from one short LTR to another. By that, I mean a string of 2 or 3 year relationships (if that), with a ton of dating and screwing around going on for 20+ years. They have little patience for anything but that relationship that is to hopefully be their last. No time for games anymore.

 

Here's the problem....if they are going after similarly aged men, a lot of times, those men are like me: divorced, kids, and in absolutely no hurry to lock in with somebody again. And if the man is like me and totally independent (ie can manage his household, cooking, cleaning, paying bills, taking care of kids, doesn't need much companionship), then they're even less likely to lock into a relationship with any woman, but particularly one who has all of these items yet to be crossed off on her 'life list'.

 

Those are incongruent modalities. For me, it just doesn't work. And unless a woman had a very compelling reason for having not gotten married/had kids by a certain age (eg tracking blue whale migration patterns across the Pacific her entire adult life), then I become leery of that woman as a prospect. What they say is, 'I haven't met the right man yet', but whT they mean is 'No man is good enough for me and I'm not going to compromise one iota'. That has left them without that life they seem to want, and then they become bitter. Then they meet a guy like me who doesn't want that stuff, and then I'm just 'playing games', and they don't have time for games.

 

That incongruency is almost unnavigable for me. Really not even worth the time. Better in my life stage to just hang out with some younger women who just don't care as much. Hanging out can be relaxing and fun, and without a ton of pressure.

 

Again, these are my experiences.

 

 

Ok, I can see that.

 

 

What I tell men is that I'm open to marriage, but it is not a hard goal. I've been married before, and had a fiancée who died. So, I know what it is like to be married and I know what it is like to be single.

 

 

Thing is, what I've observed from either the never married guys past a certain age or the divorced ones with kids is that their relationships really aren't relationships.... as in, anything with any real intimacy. They come across more like fancied up FWB or f*ckbuddies.

 

 

That's my definition of playing games.

 

 

Long story short...'hanging out' with non-committal men is just boring most of the time. I really could care less about locking any man down.

 

When a guy says something along those lines about women wanting to tame him, or whatever, I just have to roll my eyes. Yea, like, get over yourself dude. What makes them think they are that special that I'd want to lock them down, lol.

[RonaldS]

Sure it does. Here is an example. You meet two women. One is in her 40's, the other in her 20's. Her personality is the same. Values the same. 'Fun' loving the same. Both are fit and healthy.... You go out on a few dates....

 

 

Middle aged woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = potentially menopausal, bitter, jaded.

 

 

20 something woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = high standards, high quality, 'relationship material'.

 

 

same woman, same values.... middle aged man projects negative attributes to the middle aged woman's behavior based on what his own fears and desires are that have nothing whatsoever to do with the woman.

Hmmmmm....intersting.

 

I guess I don't see it that way. At that point, on an 'all things being equal basis', if I have to pick between them, I pick whichever one I get along with better, which one I'm more attracted to (being younger doesn't ensure they're more attractive), whichever one I understand better and whichever one understands me better.

 

You're inferring that I, and men in general, are totally black-and-white and unnuanced in these situations and default to 'younger'. Being insecure about your age, you assume the guy picks the younger version.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't subconsciously carry that assumption into your own dating experiences and subsequently and inadverdently create a self-fulfilling prophecy by acting out the stereotypical part.

[ltjg45]

Middle aged woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = potentially menopausal, bitter, jaded.

 

You, I, and any sane man and woman in this world all knows this is false and, in fact, should be glad he thinks of you that way because you don't have to waste a second more with this guy.

 

If a woman wants to run away because I am a 27-year old virgin, I am certainly isn't going to try and stop her.

 

I really don't know why you care so much about this particular subject. I care about this as much as I care about almost anything else that goes around me, which is very little to none at all.

[MidwestUSA]

Sure it does. Here is an example. You meet two women. One is in her 40's, the other in her 20's. Her personality is the same. Values the same. 'Fun' loving the same. Both are fit and healthy.... You go out on a few dates....

 

 

Middle aged woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = potentially menopausal, bitter, jaded.

 

 

20 something woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = high standards, high quality, 'relationship material'.

 

 

same woman, same values.... middle aged man projects negative attributes to the middle aged woman's behavior based on what his own fears and desires are that have nothing whatsoever to do with the woman.

 

If you find the right man, he won't blame you keeping to your standards on the fact that you've hit menopausal years.

 

Just as you surely found 20 something's back in the day who considered your standards prudish and probably dumped you for it. Don't choose to write them out of your history now.

 

Bottom line, you need to reevaluate why you're finding no one up to your standards. Have you considered moving? Maybe you'll see, on your trip, that there are locations out there that hold promise for you.

[ltjg45]

Middle aged woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = potentially menopausal, bitter, jaded.

 

20 something woman who doesn't sleep with a guy early = high standards, high quality, 'relationship material'.

 

same woman, same values.... middle aged man projects negative attributes to the middle aged woman's behavior based on what his own fears and desires are that have nothing whatsoever to do with the woman.

 

Besides, what you posted is a fantasy. There is no such thing as you meeting with 2 people of the opposite sex in a short time period where both is completely equal in all aspects of the things you are looking for in a partner except for age so we don't have to worry about that in the actual dating world.

 

Unless your standards is low, in which case, that will be your undoing, not the people you are comparing.

 

You can't even find that in twins.

 

In reality, each person does something up to a certain point. Some people does it better than others. It is up to you to decide which ones does the most of the things you care about the most or whichh one you can get along the best.