Consolidated Discussion - Older/younger woman/man and age gap dating

[Rejected Rosebud]

Why should I care? I have family and friends your age. I would hate to see them brainwashed into thinking they are actually compatible with someone much older than them. I'd consider it a great tragedy for them.

Um ... it's very insulting that you keep on insisting that only an older lady such as yourself is capable of making a conscious decision without being "brainwashed." Maybe when YOU were young you couldn't. That doesn't mean it's like that for all of us. Anyway, please stop it. Thanks.

[RedRobin]

Maybe I am

 

Research speaks to group patterns, not individual results. Some individuals will have positive outcomes. This particular research doesn't shed light on the factors that contribute to a positive or negative outcome within age gap groups.

 

 

Actually, it did. I just didn't attach it.

 

 

And for the other poster... I'm very well acquainted with the organization that did that study. They don't turn out garbage...

 

 

... but hey, hope springs eternal, I guess.

[todreaminblue]

i feel if more people worried about how people treat people starting with themselves...legal age consenting adults falling in love ...would not be really worried about, or any more of a concern, in sociology or psychology, about and or of a person, who is attracted dates and subsequently marries an older or younger person......deb

[blackcat777]

I'm not sure how this translates to older men/younger women, but as an older woman with a younger man, my solution to any potential power differential in our relationship presented by the age gap was to explore more traditional elements of gender roles and masculine/feminine polarity.

 

It was the best decision ever.

 

I was always cut off from my feminine energy growing up, so it's been a spiritually fulfilling quest to explore another side of myself. Learning to trust and when to surrender, learning how to articulate my emotions and place more faith in them... instead of always struggling for control. It works wonders for ME.

 

It also works for him. If I appreciate my man for his masculine qualities, especially his decision making, and always allow him to call the shots and take the lead... the power is in his hands, where it should be.

 

(Then I can just melt like hot caramel while he carries me upstairs, and... See how this is great?)

 

By allowing my boyfriend to always be in charge, it's win-win. He figures his life out at his own pace (rather than me trying to control, nag, or force elements of a life stage he's not ready for... which kills relationships ANYWAY, regardless of ages involved)... and the mutual trust and respect involved in that exchange creates nothing but upward spirals.

 

If anything, I also think me trusting him to make all the decisions inspires him to contemplate the decisions he makes more seriously. We bring out the best in each other.

 

He blows all the other guys I've ever known out of the water because he's responsible and holds his own. His peer group routinely seeks him out for advice. He is so ridiculously alpha. It gets me hot because he's a leader... not because I want to be his mom. These two things are mutually exclusive: I don't want to control someone, I want someone who can handle being in control, and control wisely.

 

When his age consequently comes up in conversation, I still laugh because I can't believe it.

 

We joke around about playing games like "lion and gazelle"... but it's true. I look up to him. He's my hunter and warrior. He's a man I respect.

 

He happens to be younger. It's not what brought us together or why we stay together. We're really just enjoying some good old-fashioned Jane and Tarzan. No diaper roleplay involved. Not once. Not ever.

 

But alas, I'm sure there are diaper roleplayers out there. I just beg you kindly not to lump me in with them.

[joseb]

I know you will deny it op, but I really suspect that something bad happened to you in order to bring about this level of anger towards age gap relationships.

 

You say you find anyone 5 years older than you disgusting. This sounds pretty odd to me.

Personally I don't usually go for older women but if Selma Hayek cracked on to me I doubt I'd be disgusted.

 

So your brain is in such a constant state of change that the same age guys you found repulsive a few years ago are now fine? We don't change that much and that quickly as adults. I don't buy it.

 

Your constant assertion that it's all some big power thing for guys is way off too. Any of the guys I know (myself include) that sometimes date younger women do it simply because we find them attractive.

 

And why are you so bothered what others do anyway?

Live and let live.

[Lois_Griffin]

I've always believed that most older men simply don't own mirrors.

 

Because what they think they're entitled to - and what they're actually capable of getting - are two dramatically different things.

 

I've lost count of how many times over the years I've seen older, not very attractive guys trying to hit on younger women or hitting on me. I found them completely unappealing but I was always gracious about turning them down.

 

But I've actually been embarrassed for some of these men as I watched the openly disgusted looks these young women would be giving their friends as the older guy was trying to interact with them - and they wouldn't even be discrete about it. If I could see their looks of revulsion from 3 tables over, he surely could. Yet most of the time, these guys would continue trying until the young lady finally told him to beat it.

 

One time I saw these two obviously newly divorced guys (that's how they appeared, anyway) in their late 40's/early 50's who showed up at a younger, edgy nightclub I was at with my friend from work, back when I was 30. I swear, they reminded me of the characters from SNL - Steve Martin and Dan Akroyd, thinking they were studs and 'wild and crazy guys.' Just their leisure suits gave them away (to say nothing of their haggard faces and thinning or non-existent hair). They really stood out like they didn't belong in that particular club. One of them tried to buy me a drink but I declined. It was kind of sad watching them try to work the room for the next couple of hours and it was painfully clear none of the women were interested in whatever they were selling.

 

I'm not quite sure who told them it was a good idea to go hit on 20-somethings when they both looked like middle-aged used car salesman, but someone steered them horribly, horribly wrong.

[buck3200]

In some sub-cultures it's fairly common for 40-50 yr old men to be with 10-15 year younger women. Your considered OG and get respect younger guys don't get from women and other men. Hair is often worn very short (fades) so gray isn't obvious and a bit of grey in facial hair is considered attractive. Guess it pays to run it certain crowds once you age a little.

[Timshel]

Since I was a teenager, older men have 'hit' on me, I guess. I say I 'guess' because I have never experienced anything beyond gentlemanly behavior. They were always polite and respectful; there was nothing vulgar, insulting or aggressive about their demeanor. I knew that they were chatting with me because they found me attractive, yet an interesting conversation would occur. These older men were charming, intelligent and funny. I felt as though I was engaging in an interesting, amusing conversation.

I never gave them (or anyone for that matter) my number and would walk away without having been groped or propositioned. I don't know....obviously some older men and women are aggressive and 'hunting' leaving younger folk feeling uncomfortable and preyed upon. That is a different situation than I have experienced.

 

I have never been immediately dismissive of anyone who approaches me respectfully. Not because they have a chance with me, more that I am willing to listen and always aware there is opportunity to learn something from others, even with a few minutes of conversation. Maybe it was nice for them to talk to a pretty young thing and not be treated like useless poop. Maybe that was enough for them to laugh with and have a conversation with someone, idk.

 

In my entire life I have never went out with any intention to meet anyone and have never once been on the prowl, looking for love or attention. Maybe this attitude enabled me to be open to enjoy meeting people without feeling a need to be condescending or dismissive.

 

I agree that compatibility should not be based on age, physical appearance or social status. Some of the most grounded and loving relationships I have seen are not matched to social 'norms'.

[Els]

In some sub-cultures it's fairly common for 40-50 yr old men to be with 10-15 year younger women. Your considered OG and get respect younger guys don't get from women and other men. Hair is often worn very short (fades) so gray isn't obvious and a bit of grey in facial hair is considered attractive. Guess it pays to run it certain crowds once you age a little.

 

In the cultures that I know of where older man - younger woman pairings of 10+ years difference are very common in society, it isn't because older men are considered physically more attractive. It's usually because the culture places an extremely high value on the man's ability to provide. As your ability to provide typically increases with age, that is why the older men are often considered more desirable by the woman and her family.

 

I agree that compatibility should not be based on age, physical appearance or social status. Some of the most grounded and loving relationships I have seen are not matched to social 'norms'.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but personally I have zero issue with couples who just happen to fall in love with someone much older/younger. Yes, age does not always matter for compatibility, and yes, love can defy social norms. However, if someone ONLY wants to date people >10 years older/younger than them, especially if they attempt to qualify that preference with generalizations and insults against their opposite-gendered counterparts, then it does raise some red flags about the character of the person.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Elswyth

[thefooloftheyear]

I think the entire premise here is that older men "prey on" and/or game stupid/naive younger women...Does that happen? Sure..

 

But then, nothing is said of "normal" older guys who are actively pursued by younger women...

 

Newsflash....It happens...more than one thinks..

 

And this is the part that older women cant stand...They know they are at a competitive disadvantage because guys do place a lot of emphasis on physical appearance and beauty above other traits..And these are the guys that are probably higher on the food chain of older guys in their peer group...hence they would be more desirable to the similarly aged woman..

 

I still contend this dynamic occurs because younger guys aren't sufficiently meeting the needs of younger women...whatever they may be..I hear it all the time...

 

TFY

Edited October 15, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[stillafool]

I kinda have to agree with you TFOTY because here on LS there are more and more threads of young women falling for their boss, professors and older men in general. Then again, I also see more younger men falling for older women. Would this also mean that younger women aren't meeting the needs of younger men?

[Timshel]

 

I still contend this dynamic occurs because younger guys aren't sufficiently meeting the needs of younger women...whatever they may be..I hear it all the time...

 

TFY

 

I agree. In my own experience, younger/equal aged men have been the most physically, intellectually and economically arrogant. Now that these same men are in their 40's I am seeing more humility and respect toward women.

 

My most recent relationship is the only younger man I have ever dated. So much of this debate is qualified by attitude and need. There are people who are ego driven and people who are in abundance. The question will divide the two.

[JustGettingBy]

You also have to remember that people don't walk around with their age tattooed on their head, so people can easily develop feelings for someone who looks of equal age, but is actually older or younger.

[Woggle]

The way I see it is that if no young women were interested in older men then no woman would care. If they were just fools embarrassing themselves it would not bother anybody when they see an older man with a younger woman. People tend to get angry and bothered about things when they are intimidated in some kind of way.

 

This is not a diss on older women because there are many who have plenty to offer a man and know that a younger woman can never compete with them but for some women who don't how to naturally inspire a man to give her his best they resent when they see a man happy with another woman young or not. I have usually not dated younger women and when I was single my coworkers talked crap about the dates I introduced them to all the time and I would say it was mostly jealousy.

[RedRobin]

The way I see it is that if no young women were interested in older men then no woman would care. If they were just fools embarrassing themselves it would not bother anybody when they see an older man with a younger woman. People tend to get angry and bothered about things when they are intimidated in some kind of way.

 

This is not a diss on older women because there are many who have plenty to offer a man and know that a younger woman can never compete with them but for some women who don't how to naturally inspire a man to give her his best they resent when they see a man happy with another woman young or not. I have usually not dated younger women and when I was single my coworkers talked crap about the dates I introduced them to all the time and I would say it was mostly jealousy.

 

Not true at all. I really could care less when I see a large age gap couple walking by. When I was doing OLD, I just put the emails of those outside my age range in a filter. No problem.

 

My concern comes from the EXPECTATION that more and more men seem to have that they are entitled to being with much younger women based on movies and media. This fuels the kind of obnoxious behavior I have witnessed my entire life.

 

Why is it so hard for the men here to acknowledge that? Could it be that they feel a sense of entitlement as well?

 

Why is it that the OP is considered damaged for not wanting men old enough to be her dad to hit in her? How about the men change their behavior and realize it is inappropriate? How come every suggestion that men get a clue is faced with 'that's just how men are'. Seriously??? Is that how you see yourselves? Just big stupid lugs incapable of managing your behavior, and, um, 'desires'??

 

That's not how I see men and never have. Maybe it's because I have so many GREAT examples of manhood in my life, that I know what ridiculous behavior looks like. Has nothing to do with jealousy at all. Sheesh.

[Woggle]

Nobody is entitled to anything but if two people of different ages consent to being together I see nothing wrong with it. I see nothing wrong with women dating younger men either. More power to J lo and Madonna. I think most men have no problem being with a woman their age but we like that stuff like this gets male bashers so bent out of shape. I

[loveflower]

sigh......listening to songs of my native language and I can't help miss that guy who is 6-8 younger than me, knowing he used to live in my native region for 2 years, while I only spent a couple weeks there in the last 2 decades.

 

I am so curious about his experience there. he is so mysterious. yes, I am not confident. I wish I could be younger, smarter and prettier.

[RedRobin]

I think the entire premise here is that older men "prey on" and/or game stupid/naive younger women...Does that happen? Sure..

 

But then, nothing is said of "normal" older guys who are actively pursued by younger women...

 

Newsflash....It happens...more than one thinks..

 

And this is the part that older women cant stand...They know they are at a competitive disadvantage because guys do place a lot of emphasis on physical appearance and beauty above other traits..And these are the guys that are probably higher on the food chain of older guys in their peer group...hence they would be more desirable to the similarly aged woman..

 

I still contend this dynamic occurs because younger guys aren't sufficiently meeting the needs of younger women...whatever they may be..I hear it all the time...

 

TFY

 

Is it also possible that some of these young ladies are also getting an unrealistic sense of entitlement?

 

I see lots of examples of hardworking, good natured young men all around me....Those ladies who want fancy trips and expensive things that they haven't earned themselves... Well,that's not young men letting them down. At all.

 

It is some young women who are just as lazy (in their own way) as the older men who can't take responsibility for their lack of emotional maturity.

 

Too many young people these days are raised to value material things. Or who have absent parents. this is one of the outcomes.

[xxoo]

I think it's odd when anyone rejects their own age group, whether that is men or women or younger or older.

 

Wherever you go, there you are. If you can't find a decent partner in your age group, what are the chances that you'll find one in a different age group? Maybe the problem is you.

[Woggle]

Is it also possible that some of these young ladies are also getting an unrealistic sense of entitlement?

 

I see lots of examples of hardworking, good natured young men all around me....Those ladies who want fancy trips and expensive things that they haven't earned themselves... Well,that's not young men letting them down. At all.

 

It is some young women who are just as lazy (in their own way) as the older men who can't take responsibility for their lack of emotional maturity.

 

Too many young people these days are raised to value material things. Or who have absent parents. this is one of the outcomes.

 

I think some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of millenial men are sort of emasculated acting. They don't have a masculine kind of energy to them that on a subconcious level even feminist women respond to. I think some of the attraction to bad boys is a misguided desire to have that masculine energy in a man that so lacking in many men these days.

[lollipopspot]

And this is the part that older women cant stand...They know they are at a competitive disadvantage because guys do place a lot of emphasis on physical appearance and beauty above other traits..And these are the guys that are probably higher on the food chain of older guys in their peer group...hence they would be more desirable to the similarly aged woman..

 

I don't know, maybe some women are like this, but I don't think I'm alone in my thoughts: I don't consider any guy a prize who places "a lot of emphasis on physical appearance and beauty above other traits." I don't care about any "competitive disadvantage" because some guys may place an inordinate emphasis on appearance. I don't want those guys anyway. When their trophy woman cheats on them with someone more handsome, exciting, or with a bigger wallet, they will have earned that.

 

I look at partners in their totality, and I expect that of the people who want to be partners with me too. I'm told I'm attractive, but I'm not going to do some of the things that signal high maintenance or trophy because that's exactly the kind of guy I don't want to attract. He can find someone else

[RedRobin]

I think it's odd when anyone rejects their own age group, whether that is men or women or younger or older.

 

Wherever you go, there you are. If you can't find a decent partner in your age group, what are the chances that you'll find one in a different age group? Maybe the problem is you.

 

X 10............... And basically what I have been saying all along.

[Timshel]

Not true at all. I really could care less when I see a large age gap couple walking by. When I was doing OLD, I just put the emails of those outside my age range in a filter. No problem.

 

My concern comes from the EXPECTATION that more and more men seem to have that they are entitled to being with much younger women based on movies and media. This fuels the kind of obnoxious behavior I have witnessed my entire life.

Why is it so hard for the men here to acknowledge that? Could it be that they feel a sense of entitlement as well?

 

Why is it that the OP is considered damaged for not wanting men old enough to be her dad to hit in her? How about the men change their behavior and realize it is inappropriate? How come every suggestion that men get a clue is faced with 'that's just how men are'. Seriously??? Is that how you see yourselves? Just big stupid lugs incapable of managing your behavior, and, um, 'desires'??

 

That's not how I see men and never have. Maybe it's because I have so many GREAT examples of manhood in my life, that I know what ridiculous behavior looks like. Has nothing to do with jealousy at all. Sheesh.

 

In my opinion RR, there is no more expectation now than any other time, in fact, less so.

My mom was as ripe as they come for this line of thinking but she achieved a Phd from Brown and headed the ERA movement in N. Fl, had two kids and adopted three. There wasn't an age gap between my dad and mom but there was a principle taught. Married close to 50 yrs. btw, until my dad passed.

 

Respect. If it is not there then there is nothing. She never told me to stay away from older or younger but to stay away from anyone keeping you from being the best you are capable of, come hell or high water.

[thefooloftheyear]

Is it also possible that some of these young ladies are also getting an unrealistic sense of entitlement?

 

I see lots of examples of hardworking, good natured young men all around me....Those ladies who want fancy trips and expensive things that they haven't earned themselves... Well,that's not young men letting them down. At all.

 

It is some young women who are just as lazy (in their own way) as the older men who can't take responsibility for their lack of emotional maturity.

 

Too many young people these days are raised to value material things. Or who have absent parents. this is one of the outcomes.

 

I wont disagree with most of this...

 

Here is the thing, though....And this is coming from someone who hires predominantly males ages 18-40....And have been for decades..

 

Ive never seen it this bad...No drive...Very little ambition..They work to get out and make enough money to pay the shared rent on the dumpy apartment they co-habitate with a couple of their equally unmotivated buddies...

 

Most seem quite content to let their 20/30 something gf's carry the mail...They don't want to settle down, don't see marriage kids/house in their future..The women play along for a while, then when they feel like they are nothing but a sex toy and a paycheck, or they get baby envy, they bail out...and who can blame them?

 

I think that's when they start seeing the guy in his 40's+. thats in good shape, has a good career and money, maybe a house as a viable option...I mean, even if a guy, say is 47 and gets together with a 30 year old woman, as long as the guy takes care of himself, he can keep up as they age together.....

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't know, maybe some women are like this, but I don't think I'm alone in my thoughts: I don't consider any guy a prize who places "a lot of emphasis on physical appearance and beauty above other traits." I don't care about any "competitive disadvantage" because some guys may place an inordinate emphasis on appearance. I don't want those guys anyway. When their trophy woman cheats on them with someone more handsome, exciting, or with a bigger wallet, they will have earned that.

 

I look at partners in their totality, and I expect that of the people who want to be partners with me too. I'm told I'm attractive, but I'm not going to do some of the things that signal high maintenance or trophy because that's exactly the kind of guy I don't want to attract. He can find someone else

 

Lolli...

 

ALL men are motivated heavily by looks..ALL men place a heavy emphasis on looks...If they dont they are lying...period...Even ugly ones..The only difference is that men are pragmatic enough to know what league they need to play in to get in the game...

 

Think about it this way...

 

Its very rare to see a good looking man with an unattractive mate, whereas the other way around (good looking woman-unattractive man( is actually quite common..

 

TFY