Consolidated Discussion - Older/younger woman/man and age gap dating

[KathyM]

People who REALLY care about other peoples lives DO NOT try to control the people.

 

Allowing a person to follow their own path and learn their own lessons, and then to be there for them if it goes bad OR good, is the ONLY way to be a real supportive person.

 

I have left a tight knit religious community. Where a girl is TOTALLY protected from ANYTHING outside. Like you seem to believe girls and women need.

 

You have no idea how hard it was for my parents to accept my choice to go. They still love me. They might think I will burn in hell, but I really don't think they do. They know that their job is to teach and then to let the young people choose.

 

I am naive and inexperienced and young, for sure, but I am probably more in touch with the idea that I have FREEDOM to make choices and to maybe crash and burn and it is so awesome. I do other dangerous things besides date an older man, too, like drive a car and walk on the street in a city at night. I DO NOT NEED YOU OR ANYBODY TO PROTECT ME and neither to my friends. Unless a murderer is running at us or something.

 

I don't think you have any kids. That is a good thing since you do not believe in letting people live and choose. And what if it were a boy. Scary.

Parents and people who care about their friends and loved ones do try to protect and counsel their children/family members/friends to make wise choices. They don't just throw their loved one into the unknown and hope he can find his way. They don't just look the other way when someone they love is about to screw up badly. They guide him, counsel him, give him feedback and help him to make good choices. That's what parents do, and relatives, friends, and people who care about the person.

[joystickd]

Parents and people who care about their friends and loved ones do try to protect and counsel their children/family members/friends to make wise choices. They don't just throw their loved one into the unknown and hope he can find his way. They don't just look the other way when someone they love is about to screw up badly. They guide him, counsel him, give him feedback and help him to make good choices. That's what parents do, and relatives, friends, and people who care about the person.

 

I think the question is with you ladies is are you genuinely wanting to help or you have an agenda

[janedoe67]

Ok. Sure. If you think it is so great.. Lets all line up your daughters to date men old enough to be their dads.

 

 

Starting with yours. If you have any.

 

 

Lets have a meet and mingle 40+ something men and high school or college dance. Any takers?

 

 

Another idea... 40+ guy speed dating event at the local roller skating rink, yogurt shoppe, or wherever they meet these days. You be the first to encourage all your female relatives to give it a shot.

 

Completely irrational.

[GorillaTheater]

Parents and people who care about their friends and loved ones do try to protect and counsel their children/family members/friends to make wise choices. They don't just throw their loved one into the unknown and hope he can find his way. They don't just look the other way when someone they love is about to screw up badly. They guide him, counsel him, give him feedback and help him to make good choices. That's what parents do, and relatives, friends, and people who care about the person.

 

I think there's a significant difference between trying to protect loved ones and trying to declare a certain kind of relationship verboten across the board for everybody.

 

I've mentioned earlier that I'd hit the roof if my daughter dated a man my age, but I'd also warn my kids against getting involved with people with even partially unresolved child abuse issues, financial issues, radically different outlooks in life, certain mental issues, and other issues.

 

But I'm far from prepared to state across the board that people with those issues should never enter into relationships. It's none of my business. The problem I see with the your outlook and that of Red is that you do see it as your business, for reasons I'm totally unable to fathom.

[sillyanswer]

Lets have a meet and mingle 40+ something men and high school or college dance. Any takers?

 

High school? Wouldn't those people be children? I think the debate (as per the title) has revolved around men and women; adults not children.

 

(I lose track about exactly what "college" means in different English-speaking countries wrt the age of the students.)

[Babolat]

Parents and people who care about their friends and loved ones do try to protect and counsel their children/family members/friends to make wise choices. They don't just throw their loved one into the unknown and hope he can find his way. They don't just look the other way when someone they love is about to screw up badly. They guide him, counsel him, give him feedback and help him to make good choices. That's what parents do, and relatives, friends, and people who care about the person.

 

I think all of us can agree to this. The key here is protect and counsel IMHO. I am an ISTJ type so it's natural for me to protect and counsel those close to me. I also think logically, I am not a Feeler. So it's easy for me to "jump in" and want to help, fix. solve problems for those close to me. What I have learned though is most people do not want you to solve their problems; they simply want to talk and have an ear to listen.

 

We do what we can, in the end though, it's their decision, their choices, and it should be. Not someone forcing their opinion down their throat and then judging and criticizing them for their decisions, when we feel they made the wrong decision. That's a very good way to push people away and lose respect for you. Which, in case you have noticed, is what has happened to you and some of the other ones who preach to us on this thread and other threads.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Babolat]

I saw an young Amish woman sneaking a cigarette when getting off the train recently. .

Or, maybe like a lot of us, she was curious and experimenting? Isn't that how we learn? She's seen her friends smoke, sees it on TV, see's it in public, so she is curious? Is that wrong?

[KathyM]

I think the question is with you ladies is are you genuinely wanting to help or you have an agenda

For me, I am wanting to help to give a perspective on issues to consider in large age gap relationships because I think women who enter into them often do not consider the long term implications, the frequent power imbalance you find in such relationships, the underlying motivation which is often present, but the younger person doesn't have the self awareness to understand. For the same reason I talked to my niece after she ran off to meet some guy 30 years her senior, I wanted her to consider the consequences and potential consequences to her because I care about her. On a larger scale, I do like to see marriages survive for the long term, and so I do encourage people to take issues of short term and long term compatibility into consideration before commiting to a person.

[KathyM]

I think there's a significant difference between trying to protect loved ones and trying to declare a certain kind of relationship verboten across the board for everybody.

 

I've mentioned earlier that I'd hit the roof if my daughter dated a man my age, but I'd also warn my kids against getting involved with people with even partially unresolved child abuse issues, financial issues, radically different outlooks in life, certain mental issues, and other issues.

 

But I'm far from prepared to state across the board that people with those issues should never enter into relationships. It's none of my business. The problem I see with the your outlook and that of Red is that you do see it as your business, for reasons I'm totally unable to fathom.

So you think that expressing your concerns about such issues to your daughter is perfectly O.K., but expressing such concerns to the general public on a message board is not O.K.? So people should only be concerned about those we love, and not care at all about anybody else? I don't see the reason for the objection to some women expressing their concerns about such relationships on a thread that is about such relationships. Is everyone who posts here supposed to think large age gaps are not a problem, or else they are not allowed to post, or not allowed to have an opinion on the topic? We are all expressing our opinions on the topic. That's all.

[joystickd]

So you think that expressing your concerns about such issues to your daughter is perfectly O.K., but expressing such concerns to the general public on a message board is not O.K.? So people should only be concerned about those we love, and not care at all about anybody else? I don't see the reason for the objection to some women expressing their concerns about such relationships on a thread that is about such relationships. Is everyone who posts here supposed to think large age gaps are not a problem, or else they are not allowed to post, or not allowed to have an opinion on the topic? We are all expressing our opinions on the topic. That's all.

 

There is a question of the intention of the women talking against it

[janedoe67]

I think it is fine to express concern on a message board.

 

I find the assumption that all women who engage with older men "must" be damaged arrogant.

[joystickd]

For me, I am wanting to help to give a perspective on issues to consider in large age gap relationships because I think women who enter into them often do not consider the long term implications, the frequent power imbalance you find in such relationships, the underlying motivation which is often present, but the younger person doesn't have the self awareness to understand. For the same reason I talked to my niece after she ran off to meet some guy 30 years her senior, I wanted her to consider the consequences and potential consequences to her because I care about her. On a larger scale, I do like to see marriages survive for the long term, and so I do encourage people to take issues of short term and long term compatibility into consideration before commiting to a person.

 

Funny how you women on this thread paint women as the victims. What about men that get taken for a ride with younger women. No its not going to be talked about because you all love shytting on men.

[melodymatters]

I had a VERY interesting conversation today with an educated, successful professional couple who are tangentially involved with my theater company. She is a journalist and radio personality and he is a climate scientist, they have been married 25 yrs and are the same age.

 

We were talking about a couple who just broke up with a 20 yr age difference where the parties are exactly the same age as my H and I, but in that case the guy was older.

 

It was bizarre because they know my husband, know my situation, but they were talking in front of me like one might have discussed "The Negro problem" 100 yrs ago in front of the "help".

 

So after listening and not saying anything for a bit, I just started laughing and said " What about Me ? H and I have the same age gap, do you feel the same way with the sexes reversed ?" (The wife writes nationally about woman's issues so she is very gender neutral on everything else we have discussed for the last 15 years.)

 

Oddly enough, and I don't think she was just covering a faux pas, she actually came right out and said that she felt it was different when the man was older because of.....I started to write it out here, but it basically was a calmer, less personal yet more intellectual version of what RR, and Kathy et al were saying. I WAS SHOCKED !!!

 

She makes her living tearing down gender walls, but here, she felt that when it was an older man it was more of a "predatory" situation.

 

I am actually pretty insulted ! A guy 20 yrs older can take advantage of his younger female partner, but *I* don't have the POWER to do the same ? When I was the younger partner *I* wasn't afforded the respect to make my own choices, i was "led' but my husband is "man" enough to make the same choice and it's all good ?

 

If anything woman are told we lose out value ( looks) sooner and harder, complete bs if you've been to any high school reunions lately, lol, but I am not powerful enough to prey, use or manipulate my husband ?

 

I don't of course, it's great, respectful, passionate and we both grow daily, but I really don't get it !?!

 

Maybe it's because I am "pretty", maybe it's because "all men want any sex they can get", like when more people give the Hot Female Teacher a pass when a guy would be hung by heels ?

 

The only thing that makes ANY sense to me is that men tend to be physically more powerful, and it's hard to look at my 6'6 hairy azz husband and 99 lb me and think in a primitive sense "she can't hurt him physically ?"

 

Bottom line, giving a 24 yr old man the respect and autonomy to make his own decisions while saying a woman can't do the same is extremely patronizing to me. BUT, I AM glad that older woman/younger man relationships are becoming so much more socially acceptable as they make sense on a lot of levels, depending on the people involved of course !

 

Just thought I'd share that on here and would like to hear feedback !

[GorillaTheater]

and would like to hear feedback !

 

I think you ROCK.

 

Or were you looking for something else?

[gaius]

Bottom line, giving a 24 yr old man the respect and autonomy to make his own decisions while saying a woman can't do the same is extremely patronizing to me. BUT, I AM glad that older woman/younger man relationships are becoming so much more socially acceptable as they make sense on a lot of levels, depending on the people involved of course !

 

Just thought I'd share that on here and would like to hear feedback !

Seems like as society becomes more accepting of one thing they have to become less of another. Us age gappers are getting all the angst once reserved for gay people. Even though few of the arguments make any sense whatsoever.

[thefooloftheyear]

I had a VERY interesting conversation today with an educated, successful professional couple who are tangentially involved with my theater company. She is a journalist and radio personality and he is a climate scientist, they have been married 25 yrs and are the same age.

 

We were talking about a couple who just broke up with a 20 yr age difference where the parties are exactly the same age as my H and I, but in that case the guy was older.

 

It was bizarre because they know my husband, know my situation, but they were talking in front of me like one might have discussed "The Negro problem" 100 yrs ago in front of the "help".

 

So after listening and not saying anything for a bit, I just started laughing and said " What about Me ? H and I have the same age gap, do you feel the same way with the sexes reversed ?" (The wife writes nationally about woman's issues so she is very gender neutral on everything else we have discussed for the last 15 years.)

 

Oddly enough, and I don't think she was just covering a faux pas, she actually came right out and said that she felt it was different when the man was older because of.....I started to write it out here, but it basically was a calmer, less personal yet more intellectual version of what RR, and Kathy et al were saying. I WAS SHOCKED !!!

 

She makes her living tearing down gender walls, but here, she felt that when it was an older man it was more of a "predatory" situation.

 

I am actually pretty insulted ! A guy 20 yrs older can take advantage of his younger female partner, but *I* don't have the POWER to do the same ? When I was the younger partner *I* wasn't afforded the respect to make my own choices, i was "led' but my husband is "man" enough to make the same choice and it's all good ?

 

If anything woman are told we lose out value ( looks) sooner and harder, complete bs if you've been to any high school reunions lately, lol, but I am not powerful enough to prey, use or manipulate my husband ?

 

I don't of course, it's great, respectful, passionate and we both grow daily, but I really don't get it !?!

 

Maybe it's because I am "pretty", maybe it's because "all men want any sex they can get", like when more people give the Hot Female Teacher a pass when a guy would be hung by heels ?

 

The only thing that makes ANY sense to me is that men tend to be physically more powerful, and it's hard to look at my 6'6 hairy azz husband and 99 lb me and think in a primitive sense "she can't hurt him physically ?"

 

Bottom line, giving a 24 yr old man the respect and autonomy to make his own decisions while saying a woman can't do the same is extremely patronizing to me. BUT, I AM glad that older woman/younger man relationships are becoming so much more socially acceptable as they make sense on a lot of levels, depending on the people involved of course !

 

Just thought I'd share that on here and would like to hear feedback !

 

I guess the real question is why do you care what other people think?? Do you need validation of your choices??

 

Just sayin'

 

TFY

[joystickd]

 

I am actually pretty insulted ! A guy 20 yrs older can take advantage of his younger female partner, but *I* don't have the POWER to do the same ? When I was the younger partner *I* wasn't afforded the respect to make my own choices, i was "led' but my husband is "man" enough to make the same choice and it's all good ?

 

If anything woman are told we lose out value ( looks) sooner and harder, complete bs if you've been to any high school reunions lately, lol, but I am not powerful enough to prey, use or manipulate my husband ?

 

I don't of course, it's great, respectful, passionate and we both grow daily, but I really don't get it !?!

 

Maybe it's because I am "pretty", maybe it's because "all men want any sex they can get", like when more people give the Hot Female Teacher a pass when a guy would be hung by heels ?

 

The only thing that makes ANY sense to me is that men tend to be physically more powerful, and it's hard to look at my 6'6 hairy azz husband and 99 lb me and think in a primitive sense "she can't hurt him physically ?"

 

Bottom line, giving a 24 yr old man the respect and autonomy to make his own decisions while saying a woman can't do the same is extremely patronizing to me. BUT, I AM glad that older woman/younger man relationships are becoming so much more socially acceptable as they make sense on a lot of levels, depending on the people involved of course !

 

Just thought I'd share that on here and would like to hear feedback !

 

One of my biggest issues with feminism. They pick and choose the things they want to be equal with men on and the things they want to keep support aspect of what they call the patriarchy. This being one of them even. We all can look at the countless number of young women that have used older men. Donald Sterling is a prime example. He got a younger women she got what she wanted and wanted more. The crazy thing is more than likely she ruined his public image because she couldn't get more. She is a grown a$$ woman and is fully aware of what's going on.

[joystickd]

I guess the real question is why do you care what other people think?? Do you need validation of your choices??

 

Just sayin'

 

TFY

I think she was seeing if anyone else agreed that it's insulting to women to say men use and manipulate younger women in older man/younger woman relationships but younger men are given more respect in younger man/older women relationships.

 

It's also hypocritical of these women that are against it because it's that man's preference. They have preferences and no one insults their preferences in what they want in a man. Like I always say preferences are cool until someone gets excluded

[RedRobin]

It's also hypocritical of these women that are against it because it's that man's preference. They have preferences and no one insults their preferences in what they want in a man. Like I always say preferences are cool until someone gets excluded

 

 

Maybe, but not all preferences are the same.

 

 

What kills me, is that I'd be the first to exclude a man who tends to prefer or has a history of dating much younger women. I really don't want those guys, so it's not like I'm pissed that some younger woman is taking them off my hands. I'd prefer not to deal with those guys at all. They gross me out.

 

 

Unless I am using online dating, there is no way for me to tell though.

 

 

IRL, lots of those men are happy to try and weasel attractive same age women into FWB arrangements while they groom a much younger one for commitment.

 

 

It is just easier for me to try to avoid men with that history altogether, no matter what they SAY they are looking for with me.

[joystickd]

Maybe, but not all preferences are the same.

 

 

What kills me, is that I'd be the first to exclude a man who tends to prefer or has a history of dating much younger women. I really don't want those guys, so it's not like I'm pissed that some younger woman is taking them off my hands. I'd prefer not to deal with those guys at all. They gross me out.

 

 

Unless I am using online dating, there is no way for me to tell though.

 

 

IRL, lots of those men are happy to try and weasel attractive same age women into FWB arrangements while they groom a much younger one for commitment.

 

 

It is just easier for me to try to avoid men with that history altogether, no matter what they SAY they are looking for with me.

A preference is a preference. It's just YOU are excluded and you are sensitive about it.

[joystickd]

 

 

IRL, lots of those men are happy to try and weasel attractive same age women into FWB arrangements while they groom a much younger one for commitment.

 

 

It is just easier for me to try to avoid men with that history altogether, no matter what they SAY they are looking for with me.

 

What kills me is women like you that constantly shyte on men and never have any accountability about the reason you can't have a relationship. It's hard out here but at some point you can't point the finger at the opposite sex all the time. Also men do what women let them. No man forces a woman into an FWB. These women are adults and make the choice to do that. You are an insult to women because you see them as not having your beliefs then the lack proper decision making skills. Only one woman in this thread that talked against older men/younger women I have respect for and it's not you. She at least is able to admit her role in her relationship problems. I think women like you are the ones easily influenced because you let the actions of a few men bother you.

[RedRobin]

A preference is a preference. It's just YOU are excluded and you are sensitive about it.

 

 

I'm not sensitive about it. I'm totally fine with men having that preference. I don't want those men.

 

 

If that is their preference, they should stick to it. Not try to weasel me into a FWB while they continue to troll for younger women or whatever.

 

 

What kills me is women like you that constantly shyte on men and never have any accountability about the reason you can't have a relationship. It's hard out here but at some point you can't point the finger at the opposite sex all the time. Also men do what women let them. No man forces a woman into an FWB. These women are adults and make the choice to do that. You are an insult to women because you see them as not having your beliefs then the lack proper decision making skills. Only one woman in this thread that talked against older men/younger women I have respect for and it's not you. She at least is able to admit her role in her relationship problems. I think women like you are the ones easily influenced because you let the actions of a few men bother you.

 

 

There are plenty of men who lie about their intentions up front though. And keep a woman around for sex while they continue to play the field. They rarely or never say up front that all they are looking for is a FWB. If you ask them, lots lie. You see guys here all the time asking for advice on how to turn a woman into a FWB. For some guys, that is the only way they would ever get laid. They have to lie about wanting a relationship. That's fine. I've got lots of ways to sort them out that seems to piss you off.

 

But you don't like it when women ask too many questions. Or decides not to get involved with men unless it is within a committed monogamous relationship. You seem to have a problem with that... you seem to have a problem with women who have standards too.

 

 

And I'm happy to help other women sort out men who are confused or insincere, and that bothers you. You think it's manipulative for women to make men of any age... older or younger... prove their sincere interest. I think it just makes good sense. Of course, she does too. I've never asked for anything I can't offer. I expect reciprocity. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I think more men ought to demonstrate responsibility for their choices, not simply "whatever women let them do". This is what little boys do. Not real men.

 

 

If they choose to have FWB or date much younger women, I will choose to reject them because their values are not in line with mine. If they can't demonstrate some restraint and responsibility for their sexuality before a relationship, they won't demonstrate it afterward.

 

 

Not every woman believes that 'boys will be boys' and let them off the hook for that. *shrug*

Edited May 19, 2014 by RedRobin

[joystickd]

I'm not sensitive about it. I'm totally fine with men having that preference. I don't want those men.

 

 

If that is their preference, they should stick to it. Not try to weasel me into a FWB while they continue to troll for younger women or whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of men who lie about their intentions up front though. And keep a woman around for sex while they continue to play the field. They rarely or never say up front that all they are looking for is a FWB. If you ask them, lots lie. You see guys here all the time asking for advice on how to turn a woman into a FWB. For some guys, that is the only way they would ever get laid. They have to lie about wanting a relationship. That's fine. I've got lots of ways to sort them out that seems to piss you off.

 

But you don't like it when women ask too many questions. Or decides not to get involved with men unless it is within a committed monogamous relationship. You seem to have a problem with that... you seem to have a problem with women who have standards too.

 

 

And I'm happy to help other women sort out men who are confused or insincere, and that bothers you. You think it's manipulative for women to make men of any age... older or younger... prove their sincere interest. I think it just makes good sense. Of course, she does too. I've never asked for anything I can't offer. I expect reciprocity. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I think more men ought to demonstrate responsibility for their choices, not simply "whatever women let them do". This is what little boys do. Not real men.

 

 

If they choose to have FWB or date much younger women, I will choose to reject them because their values are not in line with mine. If they can't demonstrate some restraint and responsibility for their sexuality before a relationship, they won't demonstrate it afterward.

 

 

Not every woman believes that 'boys will be boys' and let them off the hook for that. *shrug*

 

You can't put this all on the man to as you say demonstrate responsibility. If a woman knows what she wants she should stick by that. It's immature to place all this on the man because two people are in that interaction. I just don't like women that put men through too many hoops. I don't mind standards. I have said this numerous times. The problem is you live in fear. You standards are a way to keep from being too invested. It's a way to have some type of control. Standards are not the problem it's the reason why a person has them that's the problem. No man really would want a judgmental woman like you if the truly saw what you really are so essentially you are a liar just like the men you talk about.

[RedRobin]

You can't put this all on the man to as you say demonstrate responsibility. If a woman knows what she wants she should stick by that. It's immature to place all this on the man because two people are in that interaction. I just don't like women that put men through too many hoops. I don't mind standards. I have said this numerous times. The problem is you live in fear. You standards are a way to keep from being too invested. It's a way to have some type of control. Standards are not the problem it's the reason why a person has them that's the problem. No man really would want a judgmental woman like you if the truly saw what you really are so essentially you are a liar just like the men you talk about.

 

 

You are right. My standards ARE a reason to avoid becoming too invested... with the wrong kind of man. I AM sticking by what I want.

 

 

Men with standards themselves don't have any problems with women who have standards. Those men aren't sleeping with everything that walks just to see if they can either. Not sure about what hoops you are talking about. These 'hoops' are ones that I've already jumped through in my life. Why shouldn't I expect a peer and an equal??

 

 

I'm sure it bugs some men that they are being judged for the same things they judge women about. Lots of men believe they can do whatever they want, and some woman will just overlook it. When he wouldn't overlook the same in her.

 

 

Not sure why you and others can't believe that there are lots of women who don't want same age men who prefer younger women or have a habit of dating them. I'm pissed that they are wasting my time, frankly. I'm not here to be their 'filler' or to kill time with. If they really prefer women younger than me, then please do that. I seriously don't want them. I'm not here to prove anything to those men.

Edited May 19, 2014 by RedRobin

[joystickd]

You are right. My standards ARE a reason to avoid becoming too invested... with the wrong kind of man. I AM sticking by what I want.

 

 

Men with standards themselves don't have any problems with women who have standards. Those men aren't sleeping with everything that walks just to see if they can either. Not sure about what hoops you are talking about. These 'hoops' are ones that I've already jumped through in my life. Why shouldn't I expect a peer and an equal??

 

 

I'm sure it bugs some men that they are being judged for the same things they judge women about. Lots of men believe they can do whatever they want, and some woman will just overlook it. When he wouldn't overlook the same in her.

 

 

Not sure why you and others can't believe that there are lots of women who don't want same age men who prefer younger women or have a habit of dating them. I'm pissed that they are wasting my time, frankly. I'm not here to be their 'filler' or to kill time with. If they really prefer women younger than me, then please do that. I seriously don't want them. I'm not here to prove anything to those men.

Lol. I really have to laugh at this. I think it's all men you are afraid of. We all meet the wrong people that helps us appreciate the right one when they come