Consolidated Discussion - Older/younger woman/man and age gap dating

[romeosadventure]

My advice is to seek out those with poor self esteem... pretend you care about her as a person. Use flattery, gifts... lie about your life plans or the people you are acquainted with and places you have traveled.

 

If she has few friends or doesnt get along well with her family.... thats some low hanging fruit right there.

 

Orbit until a life crisis comes along and do the whole 'here baby, I'm sure a back rub will make things all better'... then make your 'move'

 

It's not that tough... you know.... all the things other men do but women closer to your own age have figured out how to see through

 

Excellent advice! But maybe I should even look for those with some history of abuse as well...that would really do the trick!..... Please, give me a break. I'm not trying to single anyone out or go for low hanging fruit, I'm just approaching those who appeal to me regardless of age. As stated several times, most of the time it is those who are in their mid 20s to mid 30s that fit the criteria but once more, would also be interested in a woman in her 40s if she was what I was looking for. Honestly, one cannot be living into their 40s and not have some kind of issues, etc. ....including myself! But it is more the way that they deal with it that makes the difference!

[romeosadventure]

The friend-zone doesn't exist. If a woman isn't attracted to you, she won't hook up with you regardless of approach.

 

Oh I beg to differ! The friend zone really does exist! Just ask any early 20s guy. The thing is, a woman will put a guy in either the potential friend or potential boyfriend pile very quickly. You can't be a completely "nice guy" or you get friend zoned very fast. On the other hand, if you are confident and just a little cocky, then it is possible that a woman who didn't necessarily feel physical attraction right away, will step back and say...hmmmm. This is especially true with eastern european/russian women. A guy who doesn't take the lead and "be the man" has absolutely no chance with these women....believe me they have told me before (about other guys, not me!).

 

It comes down to not if they are attracted or not, it comes down to if they experience an "attraction killer" from the guy. This happens to guys too. If they spot a physically attractive woman and come to find out she's bitchy, boring, self centered, high maintenance, etc., those are attraction killers for the guy yet he may be friends with the person. I know one girl like that myself...very attractive and fun, but huge issues...and has a cat...hahaha... so for me, no attraction but I'm still friends with her

[Mascara]

The reason why women say the "friend zone" doesn't exist is because we know what we're really saying. It used to be called just good old fashioned rejection, but in these days of social media, where everyone is a "friend", younger people especially don't seem able to just reject and move on - they soften the blow by saying "let's be friends".

 

It's frustrating because men have turned that into something they think they can actively avoid. It's almost as if they don't want to say "she turned me down", they'd rather save face by saying "she friendzoned me".

 

Therefore, the OP is asking entirely the wrong question to most female ears. The way to avoid the "friendzone" is to accept it for what it is.... and move on.

[RedRobin]

Excellent advice! But maybe I should even look for those with some history of abuse as well...that would really do the trick!..... Please, give me a break. I'm not trying to single anyone out or go for low hanging fruit, I'm just approaching those who appeal to me regardless of age. As stated several times, most of the time it is those who are in their mid 20s to mid 30s that fit the criteria but once more, would also be interested in a woman in her 40s if she was what I was looking for. Honestly, one cannot be living into their 40s and not have some kind of issues, etc. ....including myself! But it is more the way that they deal with it that makes the difference!

 

What the others have told you is that women who would be ok with an age gap you prefer have issues, by default.

 

Absolutely... find a woman who has a history of abuse too... especially by men much older than her... They often have something to prove to themselves and are hungry to trust an older man.

 

We realize that you don't like to view yourself as a person who can only attract vulnerable women... but that is the reality. What a few of the posters tried to tell you (before those posts were deleted) is that those women don't stay 'vulnerable' and naïve forever.... That wisdom you call 'baggage'.

 

I believe you give yourself too much credit for being able to recognize that moment before she might... and perhaps finding a replacement in advance.

 

Like the others have stated... your marketability has it's limits too. Even Hugh Hefner doesn't get sex from the women he claims to date... for instance... and I don't know what circles you run in, but George Clooney isn't viewed as a sex symbol or even admirable to anyone I know. He's seen as a grasping, desperate old guy. Same as Hugh. The days of the aging swinging d*ck playboy are long gone.

[romeosadventure]

George Clooney isn't viewed as a sex symbol or even admirable to anyone I know.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. Poor Stacy Keibler just couldn't attract anyone else and had to settle for old man Clooney. Can't help but feel sorry for her...

 

Really??? Well, don't know who you know but I'm guessing there are millions of women (straight) out there that would disagree! I can't think of any women I know who aren't attracted to him...which are plenty btw!

[Carenth]

I'm not really sure what advice to give you. All I know is most of my female friends around the age you speak of get incredibly creeped out when someone old enough to be their father makes advances on them. Where I used to work in retail several older male staff were fired for making inappropriate advances to the younger female staff members.

 

The baggage you talk about seems more like you are after someone who might be a bit naive in the ways of the world.

 

Either way their is only one friend of mine who is 24 who is actually attracted to older men. However I do believe it's mostly because of their status and wealth, to be specific some of the most talented surgeons in the world (she is a surgeon herself). She admires them a lot.

 

She was telling me about she is basically having an emotional affair with a 50 year old surgeon last week and that she felt horrible about it. She has never actually done anything with these older men other than flirting but yeah. So even then she doesn't really want to do anything physical with these guys.

 

So unless you got a bucket of money and/or talent in a field. Your pickings may be very slim.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I'd be curious to hear you address the question that's already been asked many times: what do you have to offer a woman in her 20's?

 

I am not asking this bitterly or with snark. I truly would like to know what you believe you can contribute to a relationship that would make a young woman in her 20's choose to be with you romantically instead of someone at least remotely close to her own age.

 

You already have stated that you do not want marriage or children. Most women in their 20's, while not yet under the effects of "my clock is ticking" syndrome, do have marriage and kids on their eventual radar. Mid-20's is when a lot of women stop just "dating around" and start looking for a real Mr. Right. Husband material. I'm 26 myself, and engaged, preparing to build a life with someone. A 45-year-old perma-singleton would not even register on my dating radar if I were single. I've been hit on by plenty of them, and have always left the situation feeling more sad for them than creeped out. It's almost a bit depressing, if I'm being honest.

 

Again, none of this is intended with hostility. I have dated older men (not more than ten years, though) and my fiancé is 7 years older. I just genuinely want to know what it is that you can offer these women. We already know it is not marriage, a family, or the promise of a future. We know it is probably not searing physical attraction or youthful excitement due to your age. So, what is it? Please be mindful that offerings such as "companionship," "intelligent conversation," and even "maturity" and "life experience" can all be offered by someone ten years or more your junior.

 

The only I advice I can leave you with is based on the few acquaintances I have who do date much older men. And what those older men offer them is simple: money. Gifts and vacations; frequent dates at expensive restaurants, galas and high-class social events. Sad when it's all black and white, but it's true. I'm not saying they might not see other things in these men; heck, some of them seem to genuinely enjoy each other's company. But the common denominator is certainly wealth and status.

Edited October 18, 2013 by kiss_andmakeup

[RedRobin]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Poor Stacy Keibler just couldn't attract anyone else and had to settle for old man Clooney. Can't help but feel sorry for her...

 

Really??? Well, don't know who you know but I'm guessing there are millions of women (straight) out there that would disagree! I can't think of any women I know who aren't attracted to him...which are plenty btw!

 

Insecure women, or women with issues come in all shapes, sizes, and ages...

 

About George... don't know what to tell you. I guess the people I hang with have different values. If they ever did consider him attractive, it was before he decided to be a tool. I personally never did. He's got dead eyes and doesn't seem to be particularly intelligent.

[Criticality]

I'd be curious to hear you address the question that's already been asked many times: what do you have to offer a woman in her 20's?

 

I think the answer to that is rather obvious, isn't it? Maturity, life experiences, conversations and wisdom you can't find in a guy is in his twenties or thirties.

 

And of course in most cases, much bigger disposable income and financial stability than younger guys.

 

Those things is probably what accounts for most of the twenty-something's that would be interested. The need for a father-figure or a complicated relationship with her own father, is what accounts for the rest.

 

It's weird that you'd even need to ask that question, as the answer is rather obvious. And yes, lots and lots of young women are attracted to men in their forties.

 

You might think it's "icky" just like most guys in their twenties find the thought of having sex with a woman in her forties or fifties.

 

But plenty of women in their twenties either doesn't find it creepy, or think its creepy until it happens to themselves. It happens all the time, and I often see couples out in town, where the woman clearly isn't the guys daughter, though she might be young enough to be.

 

 

The more interesting question I think, is why there is such a strong reaction to this. Especially from women it seems.

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

I really find it interesting though odd, that there is such a strong and vehement reaction to relationships of this kind, when the parties concerned are two adults over the age of consent.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I think the answer to that is rather obvious, isn't it? Maturity, life experiences, conversations and wisdom you can't find in a guy is in his twenties or thirties.

 

And of course in most cases, much bigger disposable income and financial stability than younger guys.

 

Those things is probably what accounts for most of the twenty-something's that would be interested. The need for a father-figure or a complicated relationship with her own father, is what accounts for the rest.

 

It's weird that you'd even need to ask that question, as the answer is rather obvious. And yes, lots and lots of young women are attracted to men in their forties.

 

You might think it's "icky" just like most guys in their twenties find the thought of having sex with a woman in her forties or fifties.

 

But plenty of women in their twenties either doesn't find it creepy, or think its creepy until it happens to themselves. It happens all the time, and I often see couples out in town, where the woman clearly isn't the guys daughter, though she might be young enough to be.

 

 

The more interesting question I think, is why there is such a strong reaction to this. Especially from women it seems.

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

I really find it interesting though odd, that there is such a strong and vehement reaction to relationships of this kind, when the parties concerned are two adults over the age of consent.

 

Did you even read the rest of my post? Please go back and read it, then comment.

 

Trust me, there are plenty of twenty and especially thirty-somethings who can offer maturity, intellectual stimulation, great conversation, and life experience. There are even some who can offer wealth. But I covered that in my post, so like I said, you might want to actually read what I wrote beyond the very first sentence.

[Mascara]

How does "accepting it for what it is" prove it doesn't exist?

 

This is pretty blatant self-contradiction. Obviously friend zone exists, you can say it is pretty insulting or disingenious to call it "friendship", and I'm not gonna argue that because it's not even relevant - the very fact that you give these issues a consideration proves the existence of friendzone. Because if it didn't exist, what would be even the point of such random musings?

 

It's not a contradiction, women wanting only friendship DOES exist. I'm just saying that what most guys call "the friend zone" is actually just the woman rejecting them.

 

Therefore, to answer the OP's question, the way he can avoid this "friend zone" is to understand that he's simply being rejected. My advice - Save his time and effort, and move on.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I think the answer to that is rather obvious, isn't it? Maturity, life experiences, conversations and wisdom you can't find in a guy is in his twenties or thirties.

 

And of course in most cases, much bigger disposable income and financial stability than younger guys.

 

Those things is probably what accounts for most of the twenty-something's that would be interested. The need for a father-figure or a complicated relationship with her own father, is what accounts for the rest.

 

It's weird that you'd even need to ask that question, as the answer is rather obvious. And yes, lots and lots of young women are attracted to men in their forties.

 

You might think it's "icky" just like most guys in their twenties find the thought of having sex with a woman in her forties or fifties.

 

But plenty of women in their twenties either doesn't find it creepy, or think its creepy until it happens to themselves. It happens all the time, and I often see couples out in town, where the woman clearly isn't the guys daughter, though she might be young enough to be.

 

 

The more interesting question I think, is why there is such a strong reaction to this. Especially from women it seems.

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

I really find it interesting though odd, that there is such a strong and vehement reaction to relationships of this kind, when the parties concerned are two adults over the age of consent.

 

Also, I'm under 30 and happily engaged (another thing you'd know if you had actually read my post), so I'm really not speaking from a place of bitterness.

[romeosadventure]

We know it is probably not searing physical attraction or youthful excitement due to your age. So, what is it? Please be mindful that offerings such as "companionship," "intelligent conversation," and even "maturity" and "life experience" can all be offered by someone ten years or more your junior.

 

Actually, good question and no, I don't think you're being hostile...no offense taken! Yes, all the things you mention above but what most women tell me is that I make them feel special. I don't think that chivalry is dead and still do the things that make a difference. Just the other night I was walking with a girl-friend of mine who is 29 and saw she seemed cold. Without asking her, I took off my jacket and wrapped it over her shoulders. She was just amazed and said she'd never had anyone do that for her before. I was just being thoughtful and concerned but it had a huge effect on her.

 

So can't other guys do this that are younger? Yes, can't other guys give her the things that you mention above? Yes. What I do is actually give it, and yes I do take women to places that are nice, but I also take them bowling or go on hikes, or get ice cream, etc. I'm not rich but I'm stable.

 

By the way, most people under guess my age about 10 years. I am active, workout, fit into 28in jeans comfortably, and laugh a bunch...

 

So I ask you, if I can give all the same things that the younger guy can that you mention, isn't it just a matter of a women wanting these things from a man regardless of age and perhaps I'm lucky enough to be the one to introduce them to it?

[theothersully]

People keep asking what an older guy had to offer. Let me help you out...

 

Stability, life experience, fun at a different level, new experiences, new perspectives.

 

An older guy challenges a younger woman in ways guys her own age often can't. It's an enjoyable novelty and learning experience for the younger woman and an enjoyable interaction for the older man. We older guys aren't just learning how to treat a woman properly. We learned way back and bring that to the table, along with mature and intellectually stimulating vacations, a positive attitude and plenty of self confidence.

 

Guys in their 20s, for the most part, are still establishing themselves and are unable to provide this.

 

Don't underestimate the ability of this unique dynamic to light a fire in a younger woman's brain (the ultimate erogenous zone) and cause true feelings to develop. A lot of times, we are able to make a younger woman's dreams come true. Age ceases to be a factor at this point.

 

On our side, we older guys enjoy the fun, energetic, new youthful experiences she brings (like going to Ultra in Miami in my case). Had the most amazing time there, jet skiing with the younger woman there, going out to clubs with her, checking out art exhibits, eating local and organic foods, soaking up the sunshine in the middle of winter together.

 

This is why it works.

[Mascara]

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

For my part, no. I'm equally put off if it's a man - lets say 55 - who only wants to meet women between 35 and 50. I fall well within that range, but I'm put off.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I think the answer to that is rather obvious, isn't it? Maturity, life experiences, conversations and wisdom you can't find in a guy is in his twenties or thirties.

 

And of course in most cases, much bigger disposable income and financial stability than younger guys.

 

Those things is probably what accounts for most of the twenty-something's that would be interested. The need for a father-figure or a complicated relationship with her own father, is what accounts for the rest.

 

It's weird that you'd even need to ask that question, as the answer is rather obvious. And yes, lots and lots of young women are attracted to men in their forties.

 

You might think it's "icky" just like most guys in their twenties find the thought of having sex with a woman in her forties or fifties.

 

But plenty of women in their twenties either doesn't find it creepy, or think its creepy until it happens to themselves. It happens all the time, and I often see couples out in town, where the woman clearly isn't the guys daughter, though she might be young enough to be.

 

 

The more interesting question I think, is why there is such a strong reaction to this. Especially from women it seems.

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

I really find it interesting though odd, that there is such a strong and vehement reaction to relationships of this kind, when the parties concerned are two adults over the age of consent.

 

I think my other response to your post got lost in the thread merge, but if you actually read my post beyond the first line (you obviously didn't), I covered a lot of what you just said. I wrote an entire paragraph about the disposable income part, in particular.

 

And yeah...men in their 30's (and maybe even some in their 20's) can certainly offer all of those immaterial things that you mentioned. But I'm happy for you guys to keep telling yourselves that they can't.

[kiss_andmakeup]

People keep asking what an older guy had to offer. Let me help you out...

 

Stability, life experience, fun at a different level, new experiences, new perspectives.

 

An older guy challenges a younger woman in ways guys her own age often can't. It's an enjoyable novelty and learning experience for the younger woman and an enjoyable interaction for the older man. We older guys aren't just learning how to treat a woman properly. We learned way back and bring that to the table, along with mature and intellectually stimulating vacations, a positive attitude and plenty of self confidence.

 

Guys in their 20s, for the most part, are still establishing themselves and are unable to provide this.

 

Don't underestimate the ability of this unique dynamic to light a fire in a younger woman's brain (the ultimate erogenous zone) and cause true feelings to develop. A lot of times, we are able to make a younger woman's dreams come true. Age ceases to be a factor at this point.

 

On our side, we older guys enjoy the fun, energetic, new youthful experiences she brings (like going to Ultra in Miami in my case). Had the most amazing time there, jet skiing with the younger woman there, going out to clubs with her, checking out art exhibits, eating local and organic foods, soaking up the sunshine in the middle of winter together.

 

This is why it works.

 

Even if that's true, why would a woman need to date up in age that much? You keep comparing men in their 40's to men in their 20's, but what about men in their 30's? They're often established, experienced, and still lovely on the eyes.

[Mascara]

So you basically admit the phenomenon called by some "friend zone" does exist, whether you think the name is accurate or not.

 

No, it does not exist.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Actually, good question and no, I don't think you're being hostile...no offense taken! Yes, all the things you mention above but what most women tell me is that I make them feel special. I don't think that chivalry is dead and still do the things that make a difference. Just the other night I was walking with a girl-friend of mine who is 29 and saw she seemed cold. Without asking her, I took off my jacket and wrapped it over her shoulders. She was just amazed and said she'd never had anyone do that for her before. I was just being thoughtful and concerned but it had a huge effect on her.

 

So can't other guys do this that are younger? Yes, can't other guys give her the things that you mention above? Yes. What I do is actually give it, and yes I do take women to places that are nice, but I also take them bowling or go on hikes, or get ice cream, etc. I'm not rich but I'm stable.

 

By the way, most people under guess my age about 10 years. I am active, workout, fit into 28in jeans comfortably, and laugh a bunch...

 

So I ask you, if I can give all the same things that the younger guy can that you mention, isn't it just a matter of a women wanting these things from a man regardless of age and perhaps I'm lucky enough to be the one to introduce them to it?

 

Sure! Thanks for responding rationally and non-hostilly and you made some great points. And I think in a way, you kind of answered your own question...it will be a bit like finding a needle in a haystack. Not to say it can't be done, but it will be difficult.

 

So I have a counter-question for you. Say you meet this girl in her 20's who thinks you're the bee's knees, and vice-versa. And you two date for a while. And one day she mentions that she would really like to be married and have a family one day. How do you respond to that?

[theothersully]

Even if that's true, why would a woman need to date up in age that much? You keep comparing men in their 40's to men in their 20's, but what about men in their 30's? They're often established, experienced, and still lovely on the eyes.

 

I'm in my 30's! Pretty much done them though.

 

Turning 40. ugh

 

This is about older/younger, not exact ages. Exact ages are irrelevant.

Edited October 18, 2013 by theothersully

[RedRobin]

The more interesting question I think, is why there is such a strong reaction to this. Especially from women it seems.

 

Is it just jealousy, and the fact that the opposite situation wi women in the forties is so rare? or do you find it wrong for moral or religious reasons?

 

Is it because the number of eligible bachelors for women age 30 and up is smaller because of this, and you really don't care for the competition?

 

I really find it interesting though odd, that there is such a strong and vehement reaction to relationships of this kind, when the parties concerned are two adults over the age of consent.

 

I'll answer that question...

 

Because, once the initial shock of having a guy twice one's age view you as a sex object wears off, it is replaced by anger at being put in that position to begin with.

 

Then, when it happens over and over in every sphere of your life (work, personal, friend's H's)... one starts to wonder where this shyte came from.

 

When I was in my 20's, I'd often question myself "what am I doing to attract this kind of attention?" Because not only was it unwanted... it felt like a betrayal. Just one example of many... My 50+ year old chiropractor hit on me when I was 19. Tried to kiss me. He'd seen my nearly naked body (at least topless) since I was 16. Tell me that isn't a violation.

 

Won't even tell you all of the much older men I've worked with who thought my professional interaction with them somehow earned them the right to hit on me too. This might be expected from someone my own age... but at some point, women don't want to feel like every *&^% conversation or interaction they have with a man is going to be interpreted or twisted as sexual.

 

So, what I learned is that I wasn't doing anything to attract it. It was them being a-holes and some elements of society telling them it was ok.

 

I know where it comes from now. It comes from pathology and social dysfunction. The fact that it exists and is legal doesn't make it healthy.

 

Another poster asked what these guys have to offer... and the fact remains that to many put together 20 something women, the marketing doesn't match the reality... and thanks to the internet, even the women who might previously been isolated enough to believe he's their only option think twice when they witness the fallout from other women and choose not to go there themselves.

 

... in other words... it is getting harder and harder for a 45 year old man to attract a 20 something for anything other than occasional sex... not easier... despite the access to social media... while at the same time... it is getting easier for a 45 year old woman to attract a 20 something man simply because of the novelty factor.

 

So the hottest 45 year old isn't as likely to settle for the 45 year old commitment phobe either.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I'm in my 30's! Pretty much done them though.

 

Turning 40. ugh

 

This is about older/younger, not exact ages. Exact ages are irrelevant.

 

It's not really irrelevant though, because it began as a post by a 45-year old man looking to date 25(ish)-year old women. That's a very large age gap, and carries a different weight and a whole different set of challenges than say, a 35-year-old in the same scenario would. A 45-year-old is likely past his child-and-family years (of course, anything is possible and I'm aware there are men even older than this who go on to have families, but generally speaking, the vast majority of people have children before turning 40), and could be viewed as more of a "father figure" to someone 20 years his junior. These things are not the case with a 35-year-old.

 

Now that it's been merged into the "general" older/younger thread, the scope is a little bit broader. But I was still responding to romeosadventure's original thread.

[Mascara]

There is no such thing as a friend zone as a separate entity. That's just a name men give "being rejected." Being rejected exists. A friend zone doesn't. I'm not going to discuss the semantics of the name some men choose to give " being rejected".

[RedRobin]

I do think the OP's best option is just to be upfront about it. Will save everyone a lot of time and avoid the situation I just described where, what was believed to be a legitimate professional or platonic relationship turns out to be nothing but a ruse.

 

Although, I also get it that some guys do that on purpose just to try to anger or hurt women. I don't take that personally anymore either.

 

Lots of effed up people out there, for sure.

[theothersully]

This is how you view life and the dance between women and men?

 

You have some strong reasons for your negative posts, but this isn't at all healthy.

 

 

I'll answer that question...

 

Because, once the initial shock of having a guy twice one's age view you as a sex object wears off, it is replaced by anger at being put in that position to begin with.

 

Then, when it happens over and over in every sphere of your life (work, personal, friend's H's)... one starts to wonder where this shyte came from.

 

When I was in my 20's, I'd often question myself "what am I doing to attract this kind of attention?" Because not only was it unwanted... it felt like a betrayal. Just one example of many... My 50+ year old chiropractor hit on me when I was 19. Tried to kiss me. He'd seen my nearly naked body (at least topless) since I was 16. Tell me that isn't a violation.

 

Won't even tell you all of the much older men I've worked with who thought my professional interaction with them somehow earned them the right to hit on me too. This might be expected from someone my own age... but at some point, women don't want to feel like every *&^% conversation or interaction they have with a man is going to be interpreted or twisted as sexual.

 

So, what I learned is that I wasn't doing anything to attract it. It was them being a-holes and some elements of society telling them it was ok.

 

I know where it comes from now. It comes from pathology and social dysfunction. The fact that it exists and is legal doesn't make it healthy.

 

Another poster asked what these guys have to offer... and the fact remains that to many put together 20 something women, the marketing doesn't match the reality... and thanks to the internet, even the women who might previously been isolated enough to believe he's their only option think twice when they witness the fallout from other women and choose not to go there themselves.

 

... in other words... it is getting harder and harder for a 45 year old man to attract a 20 something for anything other than occasional sex... not easier... despite the access to social media... while at the same time... it is getting easier for a 45 year old woman to attract a 20 something man simply because of the novelty factor.

 

So the hottest 45 year old isn't as likely to settle for the 45 year old commitment phobe either.