If MM told BW we just had an inappropriate friendship, why is she stalking me on FB?

[2sunny]

and i can tell you that in order to live with an active drinking alcoholic - someone usually takes control (takes charge) and it obviously looks like it's his wife. he's out of control so she spends a ton of time and energy making things "appear normal" - or at least as much as she can...

 

would you really want to be with an out of control man - meanwhile trying to control his chaos? i'd think long and hard before answering to yourself.

 

 

please find an available and healthy man. life is much more simple that way.

[MissBee]

BULL BULL BULL and that's not the word I really want to use. I am jumping up and down and waving my arms at you right now. YOU NEED A BIG REALITY CHECK on that my friend.

 

Take it from someone who has married a recovering alcoholic. He went through rehab, a year of counseling, became a board member of our local AA chapter...all before I agreed to marry him. We had the talks too, the ones where he'd come to me if he ever felt he needed a drink, I'm his accountability partner, etc.

 

Guess what? A sober alcoholic thinks like that. One who is wanting a drink DOES NOT. One who feels he will let someone down but wants to take the drink anyway will HIDE it at all costs.

 

I speak from experience. My H is holed up in a hotel room RIGHT NOW nursing a bottle after almost two years of sobriety. I will spare you all the ugly details but trust me when I tell you it's a train wreck. The only reason he's in a hotel is because I will NOT let that happen here. He was promptly escorted off the property. I will NOT let my children be subjected to that. I made him that promise when we got married, and he just found out that I was totally serious about it. And he did all the hard work, proved to me how serious he was, etc., and we're STILL here anyway.

 

I have a 7 year old and 4 year old (not his). The 4 year old considers him his daddy. For two nights now I've had to lie to my son as to why daddy is not here. He asks if we're having dinner with daddy and I have to tell him no. It's heartbreaking and it's so stressful for me right now hoping and praying that he doesn't decide to leave that hotel room and get behind the wheel of his truck. The truck that has both of our names on the title. The one that if wrecked while he is drunk will cause me to lose everything I have ever worked for, not to mention, oh, the innocent people he could KILL because of his drunken decisions.

 

I have hardly been on this site in a week because of what's been going on, but I popped on a little yesterday and today to try to get my mind off of things and I see this post. I was meant to see this post and I'm sorry I've taken a really long way to say this: YOU CAN'T SAVE HIM. You can love him all you want. You can be the best wife or girlfriend in the world. He will still drink if he chooses to. You will HAVE to accept that as reality. So stop thinking *you* can magically make him do something different. You can't. Only he can.

And I'm really not trying to put you down in any way. But PLEASE understand that what you believe could not be FARTHER from the truth.

 

The bolded is 100% true! Please take heed browndog.

 

I'm really sorry to hear about that situation you're going through SIT. I can only imagine how nerve racking that must be. It's sobering and empowering however, to see someone take a stand for themselves, set healthy boundaries and live by them, albeit difficult. I applaud you for that and I've sent up a blessing for you and your situation. I hope things work themselves out with as little damage as possible.

 

(((hugs)))

[alexandria35]

Thank you, this is one area that scares me a lot. He is a highly functional alcoholic. He manages through life without most people knowing. And our work environment really develops this behavior. For some reason.

 

I do think about it a lot. He is a good man - I have talked to him about it and he said fi we would up together he would never hide from me the way he hides from BW. I told him I wouldn't let him. I think I'm stronger than his wife, believe it or not, and could save him. I've often wanted to Email his BW to just explain some of his drunken behavior on the road. But I haven't. Not my place

 

browndog how old are you? What experience do you have with alcoholism? I spent 8 years with an alcoholic and let me tell you there is no such thing as saving an alcoholic. An alcoholic has to hit rock bottom and then he has to save himself. Alcoholics aren't just life of the party, good guys who get drunk a little too much. There is so very much more to it than that. Even high functioning non violent alcoholics can be childish, unreliable, irresponsible, dishonest, unpredictable, tempermental, emotionally unavailable, angry, depressed, immature and mean spirited. People who don't actually live with the alcoholic often don't see all poison the alcoholic brings to his family. It's not unusual for the partner of an acoholic to come across to outsiders as cold, controlling and bitchy. The non-alcoholic partner is usually hanging onto their sanity by a very thin thread. Trying to have a mature intimate relationship with an alcoholic is like trying to have a mature relationship with a 5 year old. Alcoholics are sick people and if their family is not receiving outside support and professional help they become sick too. You think you are stronger than his wife and you can save him? You have no freaking idea of what it entails just to survive day to day life with an alcoholic and still retain your sanity.

 

He told you he wouldn't hide like he does from his wife? Why's that? Does he figure you have low expectations? That wouldn't surprise me. Did you know that when an alcoholic is in full blown mode that they deliberately surround themselves with people who won't judge them or hold them to any standards? This is usually other low lifes that they meet at the bars but really anyone who will feel sorry for them and enable them will do. Your alcoholic cheating MM is lapping up your sympathy and understanding. Alcoholics simply love that kind of stuff. You say you are going to save him but in fact you are playing right into his sickness. You sound like the classic codependant enabler.

[browndog319]

BULL BULL BULL and that's not the word I really want to use. I am jumping up and down and waving my arms at you right now. YOU NEED A BIG REALITY CHECK on that my friend.

 

Take it from someone who has married a recovering alcoholic. He went through rehab, a year of counseling, became a board member of our local AA chapter...all before I agreed to marry him. We had the talks too, the ones where he'd come to me if he ever felt he needed a drink, I'm his accountability partner, etc.

 

Guess what? A sober alcoholic thinks like that. One who is wanting a drink DOES NOT. One who feels he will let someone down but wants to take the drink anyway will HIDE it at all costs.

 

I speak from experience. My H is holed up in a hotel room RIGHT NOW nursing a bottle after almost two years of sobriety. I will spare you all the ugly details but trust me when I tell you it's a train wreck. The only reason he's in a hotel is because I will NOT let that happen here. He was promptly escorted off the property. I will NOT let my children be subjected to that. I made him that promise when we got married, and he just found out that I was totally serious about it. And he did all the hard work, proved to me how serious he was, etc., and we're STILL here anyway.

 

I have a 7 year old and 4 year old (not his). The 4 year old considers him his daddy. For two nights now I've had to lie to my son as to why daddy is not here. He asks if we're having dinner with daddy and I have to tell him no. It's heartbreaking and it's so stressful for me right now hoping and praying that he doesn't decide to leave that hotel room and get behind the wheel of his truck. The truck that has both of our names on the title. The one that if wrecked while he is drunk will cause me to lose everything I have ever worked for, not to mention, oh, the innocent people he could KILL because of his drunken decisions.

 

I have hardly been on this site in a week because of what's been going on, but I popped on a little yesterday and today to try to get my mind off of things and I see this post. I was meant to see this post and I'm sorry I've taken a really long way to say this: YOU CAN'T SAVE HIM. You can love him all you want. You can be the best wife or girlfriend in the world. He will still drink if he chooses to. You will HAVE to accept that as reality. So stop thinking *you* can magically make him do something different. You can't. Only he can.

 

And I'm really not trying to put you down in any way. But PLEASE understand that what you believe could not be FARTHER from the truth.

 

Thank you for this. I am so sorry you are going through this. I hope your husband is okay and fixes himself. But I am impressed by your strength in protecting your children and yourself. Wow. That is a lot to think about. It is amazing that someone you have never met can tell you something that really makes you think about something very differently. Thank you.

[browndog319]

browndog how old are you? What experience do you have with alcoholism? I spent 8 years with an alcoholic and let me tell you there is no such thing as saving an alcoholic. An alcoholic has to hit rock bottom and then he has to save himself. Alcoholics aren't just life of the party, good guys who get drunk a little too much. There is so very much more to it than that. Even high functioning non violent alcoholics can be childish, unreliable, irresponsible, dishonest, unpredictable, tempermental, emotionally unavailable, angry, depressed, immature and mean spirited. People who don't actually live with the alcoholic often don't see all poison the alcoholic brings to his family. It's not unusual for the partner of an acoholic to come across to outsiders as cold, controlling and bitchy. The non-alcoholic partner is usually hanging onto their sanity by a very thin thread. Trying to have a mature intimate relationship with an alcoholic is like trying to have a mature relationship with a 5 year old. Alcoholics are sick people and if their family is not receiving outside support and professional help they become sick too. You think you are stronger than his wife and you can save him? You have no freaking idea of what it entails just to survive day to day life with an alcoholic and still retain your sanity.

 

He told you he wouldn't hide like he does from his wife? Why's that? Does he figure you have low expectations? That wouldn't surprise me. Did you know that when an alcoholic is in full blown mode that they deliberately surround themselves with people who won't judge them or hold them to any standards? This is usually other low lifes that they meet at the bars but really anyone who will feel sorry for them and enable them will do. Your alcoholic cheating MM is lapping up your sympathy and understanding. Alcoholics simply love that kind of stuff. You say you are going to save him but in fact you are playing right into his sickness. You sound like the classic codependant enabler.

 

I'm 39 and luckily, I have 0 experience with alcoholism. This is my first. I do have experience with chronic mental illness in my family. My sister is bipolar (3 suicide attempts before the age of 20) and my mother has long bouts of depression that have created depression. My other sister has some serious undiagnosed psychological disorder that has caused me to not even speak with her anymore.

 

I am the only person in my immediate family who even drinks socially. MM and I drink together a lot. I am always an ear for him, never judgmental. This is the second time on this site where someone has suggested that I'm co-dependent and an enabler. I ordered a book someone suggested. I never even thought about that previously, but it may explain a lot.

 

I will turn 40 in less than a month.

[whichwayisup]

I have talked to him about it and he said fi we would up together he would never hide from me the way he hides from BW. I told him I wouldn't let him. I think I'm stronger than his wife, believe it or not, and could save him. I've often wanted to Email his BW to just explain some of his drunken behavior on the road. But I haven't. Not my place

 

You're right, it isn't your place.

 

And, you can't "save" him.

 

How do you know you're stronger than his wife? You CAN NOT save someone who doesn't want to be saved.. People with drinking problems, like drugs, MANIPULATE and LIE. Sure, he is a good guy, but on the inside he has big issues and crap going on inside of him. He didn't stop drinking for his wife, his children, his family unit, he ain't gonna stop drinking for you. IF he stops it'll be because he chose to, for himself.

 

You think he wouldn't hide stuff from you, you're fooling yourself. I'm sorry, but because you're in the midst of an affair with him, you can't see what we see.

[freestyle]

here's one more point about the alcoholism, browndog.

 

If you meet an alcoholic, and become involved with them, while they are still drinking---you don't know the real person. Not at all.

 

I've had a lot of experience around alcoholics (unfortunately). I've seen a handful of them sober up---and it's uncanny........

 

The person they are (or SEEM to be) when they're still drinking regularly---is NOTHING like the person who has quit and maintained sobriety for a long stretch of time. The personality differences can be ENORMOUS.

 

The point I'm trying to make is---you don't really know him, if he's been a drinker for the duration of your connection with him. ( he doesn't even know himself, because he's actively drowning out the voice of his own conscience)

 

All of his thoughts and feelings, perceptions, are being filtered through the lens of him hiding from himself. Alcoholics and addicts lie to themselves every day---you can be certain that they also lie to those around them. Nothing they say can be believed, until they've maintained sobriety, and truly healed their own wounds..........

 

It's a sickening roller coaster ride, being involved with an alcoholic. It's a progressive disease, that only gets worse with time........and it's heartbreaking for the ones closest to them.Heartbreaking like you wouldn't believe--one broken promise after another, endless worry about whether or not they'll make it home safe, or of they'll end up on a bender that lasts a few days. Then you get to deal with the grumpy hungover person, who can't find a smile for you , until they have had their first drink of the day----life of the party for everyone else, and the person at home gets the crabby leftovers. And if you express any concern, or call them out on it at all---you get painted as "the enemy" (the killjoy who just doesn't want them to have any fun)

 

If you enable him---you're really not doing him any favors.Or yourself, for that matter.

[whichwayisup]

Do you drink with him? If so, then you're enabling him. If you don't drink and he does drink around you, do you have the courage inside of you to ask him not to drink around you?

 

I don't know why some women (and men) feel they can be the knight in shining armour, swoop in and change everything. A person doesn't change unless they want to.

 

That old saying, you can lead a horse to water...

[browndog319]

You're right, it isn't your place.

 

And, you can't "save" him.

 

How do you know you're stronger than his wife? You CAN NOT save someone who doesn't want to be saved.. People with drinking problems, like drugs, MANIPULATE and LIE. Sure, he is a good guy, but on the inside he has big issues and crap going on inside of him. He didn't stop drinking for his wife, his children, his family unit, he ain't gonna stop drinking for you. IF he stops it'll be because he chose to, for himself.

 

You think he wouldn't hide stuff from you, you're fooling yourself. I'm sorry, but because you're in the midst of an affair with him, you can't see what we see.

WWIU, fair question. The reason I sense this is because of how he locks himself in his office when he is not in the road and it's just okay. I would never allow it - I know I wouldn't because my ex-H tried to avoid interactions with me in our marriage (no alcohol, just a passive aggressive) and after years of trying to get him to change that I finally said, "you know what, I've got to tell you, every time you shut me out, my heart closes to you a bit more and a bit more. One day, it's just going to be closed for good and I'm going to be finished. You can work on this while there is still something opened for you or you can wait and I'm going to be gone and you won't be able to stop me." I tried for 6 more months and then after 6 months, I told him I was leaving. He freaked out, opened up the floodgates of love, affection and I had nothing for him. I left. It sucked to do that to him but I knew what I couldn't put up with anymore and I knew he would return eventually to Mr. Withdrawn Passive Aggressive. Bitter because his mother died. Only talked to his family, not me.

 

Different from alcoholism, but still a broken, emotionally isolated dude and I tried to fix it, tried to get him to go to counseling and after he wouldn't help, I just said, see you. Be alone if that is what you want to do anyway. If you don't want to be an active participant in this couple, go be single.

 

It was hard to choose to be alone, but I did it because the alternative sucked more.

[browndog319]

here's one more point about the alcoholism, browndog.

 

If you meet an alcoholic, and become involved with them, while they are still drinking---you don't know the real person. Not at all.

 

I've had a lot of experience around alcoholics (unfortunately). I've seen a handful of them sober up---and it's uncanny........

 

The person they are (or SEEM to be) when they're still drinking regularly---is NOTHING like the person who has quit and maintained sobriety for a long stretch of time. The personality differences can be ENORMOUS.

 

The point I'm trying to make is---you don't really know him, if he's been a drinker for the duration of your connection with him. ( he doesn't even know himself, because he's actively drowning out the voice of his own conscience)

 

All of his thoughts and feelings, perceptions, are being filtered through the lens of him hiding from himself. Alcoholics and addicts lie to themselves every day---you can be certain that they also lie to those around them. Nothing they say can be believed, until they've maintained sobriety, and truly healed their own wounds..........

 

It's a sickening roller coaster ride, being involved with an alcoholic. It's a progressive disease, that only gets worse with time........and it's heartbreaking for the ones closest to them.Heartbreaking like you wouldn't believe--one broken promise after another, endless worry about whether or not they'll make it home safe, or of they'll end up on a bender that lasts a few days. Then you get to deal with the grumpy hungover person, who can't find a smile for you , until they have had their first drink of the day----life of the party for everyone else, and the person at home gets the crabby leftovers. And if you express any concern, or call them out on it at all---you get painted as "the enemy" (the killjoy who just doesn't want them to have any fun)

 

If you enable him---you're really not doing him any favors.Or yourself, for that matter.

 

That is a scary thought that he might be a completely different guy sober. Wow.

[browndog319]

Do you drink with him? If so, then you're enabling him. If you don't drink and he does drink around you, do you have the courage inside of you to ask him not to drink around you?

 

I don't know why some women (and men) feel they can be the knight in shining armour, swoop in and change everything. A person doesn't change unless they want to.

 

That old saying, you can lead a horse to water...

 

I do drink with him - he seems to drink less with me. His drinking seems far worse and out of control at home. He seems more peaceful with me. He also sleeps (I mean actually SLEEPS) with me - he can't seem to sleep at home.

[freestyle]

That is a scary thought that he might be a completely different guy sober. Wow.

 

I do tend to ramble, but I hate for anyone to go through that kind of needless heartache.

 

The main thrust of what I was saying is---a person who isn't honest with himself, can't possibly be honest with anyone else. Their entire demeanor is based on hiding.................If you ever threaten that, by shining the light of truth in his face---I can almost guarantee that you'll see a very different person---An alcoholic will get very cold, and potentially nasty with anyone who threatens their bubble of illusion.

 

Until he's maintained sobriety for a LONG time---you don't know him.

[whichwayisup]

I do drink with him - he seems to drink less with me. His drinking seems far worse and out of control at home. He seems more peaceful with me. He also sleeps (I mean actually SLEEPS) with me - he can't seem to sleep at home.

 

You are enabling him, don't you see this? You allow him to have his way, and yes, OF COURSE he's at peace with you.. Your affair has no responsibility nor is it based on realistic life. It's hidden and taboo, he can do whatever he pleases with you, no pressure. No questions asked since you are not involved in his daily life which consists of the good the bad and the ugly. DO you not see this is an escape for him? You may just be his safe haven..A fantasy away from "real life" when things get too tough and rough for him.

 

This guy WILL drain you of your energy..You're going to continue to give to him, you heart, your love, your energy, your time..Seems your whole world revolves around him and you're just a tiny part of his.. sorry that may read harshly but the reality is .. Harsh and sadly one day it's going to come bite you real hard and you'll be left heart broken.

[whichwayisup]

The reason I sense this is because of how he locks himself in his office when he is not in the road and it's just okay. I would never allow it

 

You wouldn't allow it but when you're dealing with someone who has a disease, an alcoholic, they WILL turn on you eventually, especially if you're trying to control him and tell him what to do..

 

Which leads me to my question again that you didn't answer.

 

DO you have it in you to ask him not to drink around you? To stay sober? Or are you afraid of standing up to him, in fear that he may show you the door?

[browndog319]

You wouldn't allow it but when you're dealing with someone who has a disease, an alcoholic, they WILL turn on you eventually, especially if you're trying to control him and tell him what to do..

 

Which leads me to my question again that you didn't answer.

 

DO you have it in you to ask him not to drink around you? To stay sober? Or are you afraid of standing up to him, in fear that he may show you the door?

 

WWIU - I don't think I'll ever see him again. But I don't know if I honestly do have it in me at this point. The A is I think over at this point - I've gotten some Emails from him but we haven't actually spoken in almost two weeks which might be a record for us.

 

I hope I have the strength to NOT continue this relationship PERIOD. The drinking would be the next step. I don't know the answer to either of those questions - I've come to this site to try to help me.

[browndog319]

BD..............this has trouble, big trouble written all over it. You should run away from this and him as fast as you can.

 

Others have made many good points that I hope you are listening to.

 

I'm the daughter of a alcoholic serial cheating father who molesting me when I was 14. Was he always like that.......NO, but the booze was a devil on his shoulder that helped him to do things that the great dad I knew as a small child would never have done. The booze came first, then the women, then all the other nasty stuff that is almost unspeakable.

 

OMG, I'm so sorry you went through that. That is unspeakable. I can't even imagine going through that.

 

I am listening. My eyes are opening to the red flags around MM.

[browndog319]

You are enabling him, don't you see this? You allow him to have his way, and yes, OF COURSE he's at peace with you.. Your affair has no responsibility nor is it based on realistic life. It's hidden and taboo, he can do whatever he pleases with you, no pressure. No questions asked since you are not involved in his daily life which consists of the good the bad and the ugly. DO you not see this is an escape for him? You may just be his safe haven..A fantasy away from "real life" when things get too tough and rough for him.

 

This guy WILL drain you of your energy..You're going to continue to give to him, you heart, your love, your energy, your time..Seems your whole world revolves around him and you're just a tiny part of his.. sorry that may read harshly but the reality is .. Harsh and sadly one day it's going to come bite you real hard and you'll be left heart broken.

 

 

It has revolved around him but that is changing because he hasn't been around lately bc he's working on his marriage (do I sound bitter?) He had back surgery in early June and leading up to it he was in enormous pain and he sent me an Email thanking me for being the only person in his life that was able to comfort him completely and being the only person he wanted to go to when the pain was too much. I thought that was sweet, but now I'm seeing this differently - I didn't have to deal with any of the other stuff in their life. So of course I could just coddle him and be kind.

 

My heart is already broken. I feel disposable since Dday #2. I used that word with him. He said I was anything but disposable, but I said how else could he explain him just forgetting about me like I was a toy when he got in trouble. Put me in the closet until his punishment was over.

 

A lot of your advice, everyone here, you might feel like you're being harsh with me, but it has been really eye opening. I've needed to hear it. In case I sound like it's too much, please ignore that - keep it coming. I need it. This has really screwed me up and I've avoided a lot of these issues. I want to be well and happy again. I don't want the next decade of my life to be miserable!

[fooled once]

Did you actually hear her, first hand? Or did he tell you? He is painting her into the evil wicked witch.. The woman he said vows to, in front of family and friends.. Look how he's treating her.. Lying to her, betraying her, gaslighting her, deceiving her.. How do you respect someone who knowingly hurts their spouse and continues to live a big fat lie, yet makes it seem like she's the one who has issues.

 

Yep

 

I go through my phone/utility bills, and I'm not cheating on myself I do it because I have been falsely charged for things way too many times. It's not some freakishly ridiculous thing to do FO!

 

 

Good for your Silly. I can say I have never gone through a phone bill checking to see who called what numbers. I have better things to do with my time than that. Nowadays, most cell plans are set plans. If the bill looks higher, it is probably from data, not phone calls, unless there is a set plan of only xx amount of minutes to use.

 

I can understand looking over a credit card bill, but a phone bill? Nope. Like I said, how is she going to know what number is work related, what number is not for utilities, etc. I don't recall reading how the wife knows the MM is cheating.... maybe I missed that. But like someone else said, I would be upfront and ask instead of checking through a cell phone bill.

 

Thank you, this is one area that scares me a lot. He is a highly functional alcoholic. He manages through life without most people knowing. And our work environment really develops this behavior. For some reason.

 

I do think about it a lot. He is a good man - I have talked to him about it and he said fi we would up together he would never hide from me the way he hides from BW. I told him I wouldn't let him. I think I'm stronger than his wife, believe it or not, and could save him. I've often wanted to Email his BW to just explain some of his drunken behavior on the road. But I haven't. Not my place

 

You are kidding right? He is going to be an out in the open alcoholic instead of hiding it? Do you really think his wife has no idea how much he drinks? Do you think she can CONTROL that? Who cares if you are 'stronger', how does that relate to HIM drinking? You wouldn't let him hide his drinking? I sure hope you don't have kids you want to expose to this. What do you mean by explaining some of his drunken behavior? You can't explain a drunks behavior.

 

i can tell you from experience that living with an actively drinking alcoholic is extremely painful - at best.

 

why would you even choose this for yourself? as the OW or anything else.

 

even IF you were dating him as a single guy - i'd advise against this.

 

Agree.

 

and i can tell you that in order to live with an active drinking alcoholic - someone usually takes control (takes charge) and it obviously looks like it's his wife. he's out of control so she spends a ton of time and energy making things "appear normal" - or at least as much as she can...

 

would you really want to be with an out of control man - meanwhile trying to control his chaos? i'd think long and hard before answering to yourself.

 

 

please find an available and healthy man. life is much more simple that way.

 

Agree.

 

Those of us that have lived with alcoholics know we can't CHANGE them.

[fooled once]

You are enabling him, don't you see this? You allow him to have his way, and yes, OF COURSE he's at peace with you.. Your affair has no responsibility nor is it based on realistic life. It's hidden and taboo, he can do whatever he pleases with you, no pressure. No questions asked since you are not involved in his daily life which consists of the good the bad and the ugly. DO you not see this is an escape for him? You may just be his safe haven..A fantasy away from "real life" when things get too tough and rough for him.

 

This guy WILL drain you of your energy..You're going to continue to give to him, you heart, your love, your energy, your time..Seems your whole world revolves around him and you're just a tiny part of his.. sorry that may read harshly but the reality is .. Harsh and sadly one day it's going to come bite you real hard and you'll be left heart broken.

 

Great post. I found out when I divorced my ex who was a drunk that life is so much freer, happier and more stable. NOTHING worse than dealing with an abusive drunk!

[browndog319]

SIT, that would've been the magic act of the year, making your dead wife appear. "It's a Christmas miracle"?! Wow, you're right, their minds just don't work rationally.

 

I will check out some Al-Anon sites - this is an area I know nothing about. And maybe it will help me stay clear of it. Or, at least if I did wind up with this person down the road, fully understand what I'm signing up for.

 

Good luck - I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. I hope the good that was your marriage is able to help you through this.

[browndog319]

Fooled once, I think you made some good points that were supported by a lot of other posters. Thank you.

 

One point of clarification on the cell phone bill - most of our conversations were on the company cell phone, that bill never went to the home. However, they have a family plan and he did call me and I him a few times from that phone.

 

If I were a suspicious person, as she is, I would go through that list to see if there were weird numbers and see the times and duration of calls. I know when he called me on that phone and the length of time of some of those conversations.

 

If you are just friends with someone, you don't speak to them for 3 hours at a time in the middle of the night, sometimes until the sun is coming up. Or first thing in the morning. You just don't. Especially just good professional friends.

 

If I were suspicious, I would be checking that out and tracking that garbage. That would be one of the first things I'd throw in his face in lieu of credit card bills. All of our rendezvous were company meetings so there were rarely out of pocket expenses that would show up on a credit card. All gifts were home made CDs, a favorite Tshirt, etc. No credit card trails.

[IzzyB]

Everyone has given such good information and good for you for listening and taking it seriously BD. Now my two cents. You mentioned that your family members have serious mental illness including a mother who suffers from severe depression. Your family dynamic, in this case, can be very similar to the dynamics in an alcoholic household. You may have had to change your behavior to make sure your mom or sister didnt get more upset, or had to caretake either one in order to keep the family functioning, etc. Either way, you have no reference for a healthy, adaptive family much less a man/woman relationship. In addition to checking out Al-anon online, I very strongly recommend individual therapy PLUS a 12 step group like Al Anon (in person) or codependents anonymous. If there was any doubt about enabling being an issue, the fact that you said "I can save him" is a give away. That is the mantra of THE FIXER in any dysfunctional family, whether it be due to addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, or pretty much anything that sets up an unhealthy dynamic. Even if you do succeed in letting go of your current AP, you will keep recreating unhealthy romantic relationships until you get to the route of the dynamic - you.

 

All the best to you. Awareness is a huge step. You are on your way.

[browndog319]

Its funny, when DDay happened, I started thinking to just get over him, I needed to seek IC. And now through this forum I'm seeing I have a whole BOATLOAD of reasons I even fell for this dude. I think I'm going to go on my insurance website and search out IC.

 

I have ALWAYS been the strong, stable one in my family (haha!!!) My mother even apologized a few years ago for treating me like an adult as a kid, for relying on me. She feels like she robbed me of a childhood. My mother is actually a really good person and has had such a hard life, so I have no grudges towards her.

 

If you want to really delve into some fun psychoanalysis, my dad was a serial cheater. When I was 3 my parents separated because my dad's OW committed SUICIDE. They got back together and from the ages of 4 - 7, to get out of the house, my dad used to tell my mother we were going bowling and we would go on dates. I knew my dad's third wife 2 years before my parents split up. I haven't even talked to that d-bag since I was 19. I've lately wanted to find him, but I don't really know why or what can of worms that would open. So I just leave it there.

 

So I do THIS type of self-destructive BS. I am the consummate people pleaser - at work, at home, with men. Oh, this might be TMI, but I am such a great lover because I am so attentive to their needs and what makes them feel good. I make their favorite desserts. I made new beach guy his favorite PIE. Cherry, the hardest of all of the pies because you have to pit cherries.

 

I just thought this was because I was a VIRGO!

 

Who knew I had codependency issues?!?! It's almost a relief. I would love to have a name for it and to remove this burden. It is a burden to be a PLEASER. To be the woman who must take care of everyone. No one takes care of me and every now and then I do snap and freak out and demand that someone please pay attention to my needs. The MM, ex-H, whoever will pause, will try, calm me and then I'll get embarrassed and then will try to please them again to take the embarrassment from ME!

 

[pureinheart]

Just because it was from her location and house, it actually doesn't mean it's her. It could be him...There's no way of 'proving' it is her physically doing the online stalking. If they have kids, older ones...Never say never.. There was a thread not too long ago about the son intercepting messages between his mom and the OM..So, never say never..

 

Why not create another facebook page with your name, add all your friends and then set your setting to "no one can find you" or "friends only" and block her, this way she won't see your page. I still can't figure out how she is able to see your fb page if all your settings are private (friends only can see your page).. Or, is it possible you added her without knowing?? A different name?

 

Yes, when it happened to me, I was told by the cop shop in my area that I would have to file charges and at that point whoever the account was under, they would be the one that would have to prove it wasn't them. Hoping this makes sense...lol...this was a "myspace" account and his kids started it under his name and stalked me. Because the "account" was in his name he would be the one that weould have to prove it was his kids.

 

I would say this works with just about anything like cell phones etc.

[NoIDidn't]

Its funny, when DDay happened, I started thinking to just get over him, I needed to seek IC. And now through this forum I'm seeing I have a whole BOATLOAD of reasons I even fell for this dude. I think I'm going to go on my insurance website and search out IC.

 

I have ALWAYS been the strong, stable one in my family (haha!!!) My mother even apologized a few years ago for treating me like an adult as a kid, for relying on me. She feels like she robbed me of a childhood. My mother is actually a really good person and has had such a hard life, so I have no grudges towards her.

 

If you want to really delve into some fun psychoanalysis, my dad was a serial cheater. When I was 3 my parents separated because my dad's OW committed SUICIDE. They got back together and from the ages of 4 - 7, to get out of the house, my dad used to tell my mother we were going bowling and we would go on dates. I knew my dad's third wife 2 years before my parents split up. I haven't even talked to that d-bag since I was 19. I've lately wanted to find him, but I don't really know why or what can of worms that would open. So I just leave it there.

 

So I do THIS type of self-destructive BS. I am the consummate people pleaser - at work, at home, with men. Oh, this might be TMI, but I am such a great lover because I am so attentive to their needs and what makes them feel good. I make their favorite desserts. I made new beach guy his favorite PIE. Cherry, the hardest of all of the pies because you have to pit cherries.

 

I just thought this was because I was a VIRGO!

 

Who knew I had codependency issues?!?! It's almost a relief. I would love to have a name for it and to remove this burden. It is a burden to be a PLEASER. To be the woman who must take care of everyone. No one takes care of me and every now and then I do snap and freak out and demand that someone please pay attention to my needs. The MM, ex-H, whoever will pause, will try, calm me and then I'll get embarrassed and then will try to please them again to take the embarrassment from ME!

 

 

Hugs, Browndog.

 

I can relate to much of what you say about your own family - the mental illness, the serial cheating, the depression. BUT, I was never a people pleaser - I have some other dysfunction I'm sure. I can so relate to your feeling relief at possibly having a label for what you feel is a burden. I've gone to a couple of professionals with my family history to see if I had a label of some sort. Every time I was told my label was 'normal in a sea of crazy'.

 

I'm really glad that you have been honest with us and now with yourself. Sites like these only help with a level of honesty (of course, not complete transparency since we are strangers). I'm so glad you brought up his drinking and revealed the huge red flag that it is in this A.

 

I hope you do find the time to follow up with finding IC. It will seem difficult and be difficult in the beginning, but the payback is well worth the emotional discomfort you experience initially.

 

I wish you the best of luck. You seem like a truly lovely person.