Women who put up walls

[singlelife]

This post is proof that the women in this thread have no idea what OP is talking about, which is basically solid evidence that OP really is on to something with his claims.

 

Nowhere did OP say anything about wanting to get around walls for a quickie. What he is talking about, is that a lot of women have these walls up, but not only are these women hard to get close to, they can sometimes even be mean and harsh to the men they are supposedly interested in. A guy will only put up with so much of that before he feels disrespected and moves on.

 

I don't think having walls is a bad idea.. but when it gets to the point when a girl is either directly telling a guy to go away or being rude to him, then there's a real issue.

 

Feelsgoodman knows what I'm talking about. He alluded to it in his first post.

 

 

Thanks for understanding my posts . Am really wanting people to think about this dating stuff.

[LilThalie]

We all know that most women have been hurt and they put up a huge wall that protects their heart. Sadly a lot of times they come off as not being protective but hurtful to people who care for them or are trying to care for them. I was wondering do these women even realize that they are pushing a person away? When noone is trying to hurt you and you keep being harsh to them then you are the jerk in the situation. My question is do women realize they do this and are they really wanting to be left alone? I mean really?

 

I'll try to answer this from my own perspective. I have my walls up and almost nothing can bring them down. I'm all outgoing, talkative and generally open to meet new people. I flirt, go out, have fun, date. But I back off as soon as anything gets more serious. I run as fast as I can. I only ever get into longer 'relationships' with guys who are emotionally unavailable to some degree because it gives me the chance to have something that's labeled exclusive, but in the end is not that serious at all. There are various reasons why I am this way. I don't want to list them here.

 

I do know that I'm pushing guys with good intentions away, mostly by being unfair to them, I blame them for something that's absolutely my fault. To give an example, I am not particularly affectionate, not physically, not emotionally. I hardly ever tell anyone 'I like you'. I haven't in the 20 years of my life told any person that I loved them. Basically, I have a hard time to let anyone get close to me. I'm terribly scared of it. That does not mean I don't want it to happen, I just don't know how.

 

Maybe communication would be key here, but telling someone about this issue would mean to let them see very deep into my soul and I don't let anyone do this.

 

This is a big issue, I have to work on that alone. So, basically I don't want to be left alone, I would love for that prince to come and solve all my issues. But I'm not a little girl anymore, I know this won't happen. Any guy who wants to experience the lightheartedness of a new relationship is not for me. It's a warning sign for you, take it for that, you will be better off to really listen to it.

 

Let me share something with you: I was 19 and he was a really good guy. He had a lot of good things going for him in his life. We met, he pursued me and I finally gave in. We started to date, we had a good time, our conversations were of the best I ever had with a guy. He did wonderful, sweet stuff for me. And I liked him a lot that scared me like hell. One night we were hanging out at my place, we made a really fancy dinner. Later that night I'm eating strawberries in my very particular way, he looks me in the eyes and says: "I love the way you eat strawberries, no wait, actually I'm in love with you." I look at him and reply very distantly: "Why do you think this would affect me?" It's cruel, I know. He did not deserve that at all.

 

Of course you cannot generalize this, but be wary of people who push you away because of their own issues. They are warning you that you might get into something that will hurt you a lot more than you can even imagine.

[SteelWall]

Yea see.. what if the guy isn't trying to test you? What if he's just naturally smart and witty? So now you're putting your defenses up because he has qualities you look for in spades? Not only are you getting defensive, you're attacking this guy for being himself?

 

I'm not saying you do this per se, Steel Wall, but I have known women that do exactly that. Self-destructive behavior if you ask me.

 

See, men just do not understand that there are 2 types of females. The ones who are self destructive have low low self esteem and personality issues, you will be constantly having to re assure her of your love for her. These women make it tough on women like myself, who are self reserved and not just looking for any bloke/attention to validate our self worth.

Men after experiencing the disordered seem to group all women...all actions into one group, the disordered. Big mistake which leads to misunderstanding.

Men make the huge pricely mistake of taking advice from other men...and men can be grouped into 2 groups as well. If you take the advice of the disordered you will learn to play women....this advice will work on the disordered women, BUT will FAIL with the healthy females. That is why I will 'Kill Bill,' when I sense my intelligence being played with, but the difference between myself and a female who is needing validation...is I will later have insight to my overkill, and deal with it in a healthy way. A girl needing validation will not have insight and will continue in search for unhealthy roles and relationships.

[mo mo]

I'll try to answer this from my own perspective. I have my walls up and almost nothing can bring them down. I'm all outgoing, talkative and generally open to meet new people. I flirt, go out, have fun, date. But I back off as soon as anything gets more serious. I run as fast as I can. I only ever get into longer 'relationships' with guys who are emotionally unavailable to some degree because it gives me the chance to have something that's labeled exclusive, but in the end is not that serious at all. There are various reasons why I am this way. I don't want to list them here.

 

I do know that I'm pushing guys with good intentions away, mostly by being unfair to them, I blame them for something that's absolutely my fault. To give an example, I am not particularly affectionate, not physically, not emotionally. I hardly ever tell anyone 'I like you'. I haven't in the 20 years of my life told any person that I loved them. Basically, I have a hard time to let anyone get close to me. I'm terribly scared of it. That does not mean I don't want it to happen, I just don't know how.

 

Maybe communication would be key here, but telling someone about this issue would mean to let them see very deep into my soul and I don't let anyone do this.

 

This is a big issue, I have to work on that alone. So, basically I don't want to be left alone, I would love for that prince to come and solve all my issues. But I'm not a little girl anymore, I know this won't happen. Any guy who wants to experience the lightheartedness of a new relationship is not for me. It's a warning sign for you, take it for that, you will be better off to really listen to it.

 

Let me share something with you: I was 19 and he was a really good guy. He had a lot of good things going for him in his life. We met, he pursued me and I finally gave in. We started to date, we had a good time, our conversations were of the best I ever had with a guy. He did wonderful, sweet stuff for me. And I liked him a lot that scared me like hell. One night we were hanging out at my place, we made a really fancy dinner. Later that night I'm eating strawberries in my very particular way, he looks me in the eyes and says: "I love the way you eat strawberries, no wait, actually I'm in love with you." I look at him and reply very distantly: "Why do you think this would affect me?" It's cruel, I know. He did not deserve that at all.

 

Of course you cannot generalize this, but be wary of people who push you away because of their own issues. They are warning you that you might get into something that will hurt you a lot more than you can even imagine.

 

Wow this post was trippy for me to read.

 

I seriously thought you were someone I know. Same age and everything. I dated this girl that put me through the same exact thing. I thought it was her until the dinner at your place and strawberry part.

 

Surreal.

 

Yea anyways, sucks you have to be that way, but I appreciate your honesty. It helps put things in perspective for me.

[mo mo]

See, men just do not understand that there are 2 types of females. The ones who are self destructive have low low self esteem and personality issues, you will be constantly having to re assure her of your love for her. These women make it tough on women like myself, who are self reserved and not just looking for any bloke/attention to validate our self worth.

Men after experiencing the disordered seem to group all women...all actions into one group, the disordered. Big mistake which leads to misunderstanding.

Men make the huge pricely mistake of taking advice from other men...and men can be grouped into 2 groups as well. If you take the advice of the disordered you will learn to play women....this advice will work on the disordered women, BUT will FAIL with the healthy females. That is why I will 'Kill Bill,' when I sense my intelligence being played with, but the difference between myself and a female who is needing validation...is I will later have insight to my overkill, and deal with it in a healthy way. A girl needing validation will not have insight and will continue in search for unhealthy roles and relationships.

 

AH HA

 

Ok now we are really on to something here. I get what you are saying now, thanks for sharing.

 

If ya'll can't tell, this topic hits really close to home for me.

[singlelife]

See, men just do not understand that there are 2 types of females. The ones who are self destructive have low low self esteem and personality issues, you will be constantly having to re assure her of your love for her. These women make it tough on women like myself, who are self reserved and not just looking for any bloke/attention to validate our self worth.

Men after experiencing the disordered seem to group all women...all actions into one group, the disordered. Big mistake which leads to misunderstanding.

Men make the huge pricely mistake of taking advice from other men...and men can be grouped into 2 groups as well. If you take the advice of the disordered you will learn to play women....this advice will work on the disordered women, BUT will FAIL with the healthy females. That is why I will 'Kill Bill,' when I sense my intelligence being played with, but the difference between myself and a female who is needing validation...is I will later have insight to my overkill, and deal with it in a healthy way. A girl needing validation will not have insight and will continue in search for unhealthy roles and relationships.

 

 

Interesting. Did you get a lot of your info about men from talking to men or from other women?

[SteelWall]

Interesting. Did you get a lot of your info about men from talking to men or from other women?

 

I have always had a keen sense of intuition, 'except' for my last relationship in which I was conned by a skillfully played 'act' during months of courtship and when the ball dropped, 'bleh', a horror show began.

Society today is made of up of many many disordered individuals, and many many gamers. Online dating is a cesspool of these disingenuinuous characters and has made it unfortunately 'easier' for these disordered individuals to spread there diseased minds unto others and play out their craziness unto and into others lives. It is like ennie meanie minnie moe who gonna be my fool/tool today...lol.

That is where my problem comes into play, these disordered women have made it a mindset for men to play certain games....and I will not put up with the sh*t, nor put up with unpoliteness....I do not need to think, "oh why doesn't he love me," 'what is wrong with me that he does not care," "why am I not good enough?" The best quote ever is it is not how we think "they" are, but it is how we think "WE'" are. Meaning you have to love yourself and be confident in who you are which leads to F*off to those who treat you badly and not think, "THEY," meaning do not have the mindset of I wonder why they do not like me, I wonder what THEY. It should be why would I ME....put up with.....why would I.....))) This leads to a healthy mindset.

[zengirl]

What constitutes "walls"?

 

Boundaries are one thing, baggage another. Both can create walls. The difference with boundaries is they are walls with doors. The doors may be locked, but as you get to know a woman, many of them will open (not all---we ALL, male or female, have some boundaries that can never be crossed, but those are mostly things people wouldn't do anyway if they were also healthy etc). Baggage is like a wall with barbed wire and blood all over it already. Who wants to climb that thing? Only crazy people. So the women get more baggage from the few crazy people who try to get over. Vicious cycle.

[Ginger Beer]

Such women are damaged goods. Avoid them at all cost.

 

Can you elaborate on this please?

[carhill]

The typical walls I've seen are when a woman responds positively to my empathy and care and then, completely unannounced and without reason, flips a switch, turns bitch and pushes me away, generally in a painful manner. It's appears to me like the care they seek is poison to them and it gets vomited out and flushed down the toilet. Perhaps a bit graphic but that's how I often feel after such encounters; flushed.

 

So far, the overriding commonality in such data points is a history of childhood abuse and/or molestation. Like I said, they do open up, to a point, so I get such information.

 

Having had a couple of relationships with such people, I can only opine that they were 'thinking the relationship' rather than 'feeling the relationship' as the walls apparently disallowed any meaningful investment or connection but social skills allowed the appearances of such. That's probably the best way to describe my M. My exW foreshadowed a lot by talking about personality types and 'masks'. So true.

[Rinas]

A man needs to be agressive or very persistent to get through these walls. I just can't do it. I'm not strong enough.

 

I'm not difficult to be around at all, It's more of a trust issue, I have to feel comfortable, and a good guy doesn't put pressure on that.

 

Note to self: dating Rinas requires mountaineering equipment.

 

Sound's about right.

 

Not for a guy like me. I'll give up at the first sign of resistance, and assume she's not interested.

 

I show interest, it's not a I won't let people try and get close to me thing, just a hesitant to trust. A good guy would be able to shine through.

 

But that's not unreasonable, always good to move on if you feel theres no interest!

[Shaun-Dro]

This post is proof that the women in this thread have no idea what OP is talking about, which is basically solid evidence that OP really is on to something with his claims.

 

Nowhere did OP say anything about wanting to get around walls for a quickie. What he is talking about, is that a lot of women have these walls up, but not only are these women hard to get close to, they can sometimes even be mean and harsh to the men they are supposedly interested in. A guy will only put up with so much of that before he feels disrespected and moves on.

 

I don't think having walls is a bad idea.. but when it gets to the point when a girl is either directly telling a guy to go away or being rude to him, then there's a real issue.

 

Feelsgoodman knows what I'm talking about. He alluded to it in his first post.

 

The so-called walls built around these women are an act. Years ago when I was younger, I thought it was me. Now that I've grown wiser beyond my years, the problem lies within them.

 

The best way to bust their walls down is to direct what she's doing right back at her. It's worked for me and I know it would do the same for other men with the resiliency and the spine to do so.

[Disillusioned]

My question is do women realize they do this and are they really wanting to be left alone? I mean really?

 

Yes and no. I have yet to meet a woman who feels empathy, and who really acts like she understands love (as opposed to schadenfreude). To be female is to feel pleasure by withholding love, not giving or getting it. If you're going to beat me up, go ahead... but it's what my experiences taught me.

[mo mo]

The so-called walls built around these women are an act. Years ago when I was younger, I thought it was me. Now that I've grown wiser beyond my years, the problem lies within them.

 

The best way to bust their walls down is to direct what she's doing right back at her. It's worked for me and I know it would do the same for other men with the resiliency and the spine to do so.

 

It's not that I don't have resiliency, or a spine, but I think that having to act like some kind of ******* just to take the next step in a relationship is just wrong. If you are acting like someone you are not then you are manipulating interest, and that is absolutely not what I want to do.

 

I don't put up with this crappy behavior from women. I call them out on it. If they act like they did nothing wrong then to hell with them. If they concede that they were being irrational then maybe I'll push forward. Maybe.

 

Throwing the **** they give me back at them isn't going to do anyone any favors. I do not want to be part of that kind of relationship.

[zengirl]

It's not that I don't have resiliency, or a spine, but I think that having to act like some kind of ******* just to take the next step in a relationship is just wrong. If you are acting like someone you are not then you are manipulating interest, and that is absolutely not what I want to do.

 

I don't put up with this crappy behavior from women. I call them out on it. If they act like they did nothing wrong then to hell with them. If they concede that they were being irrational then maybe I'll push forward. Maybe.

 

Throwing the **** they give me back at them isn't going to do anyone any favors. I do not want to be part of that kind of relationship.

 

Agree. Doesn't that just sound exhausting? Being single really isn't bad, a nurturing loving relationship is better, but that scenario just sounds like hell to me. No thank you! Why would any man or woman put themselves through that?

[JHS]

We all know that most women have been hurt and they put up a huge wall that protects their heart. Sadly a lot of times they come off as not being protective but hurtful to people who care for them or are trying to care for them. I was wondering do these women even realize that they are pushing a person away? When noone is trying to hurt you and you keep being harsh to them then you are the jerk in the situation. My question is do women realize they do this and are they really wanting to be left alone? I mean really?

 

I know you're asking for women's opinions but I have enough experience being on the receiving end of some jerky behavior. In some instances the women have admitted that it was jerky (like once when I was assaulted) and sometimes the women think that all they do is perfect and beyond reproach. In that instance they will never know that they are being a jerk or hurtful.

 

I don't think that the desire to be alone is the motivator. In my experience it was a defense mechanism in response to a perceived and imagined threat. One woman was being a jerk to me (but couldn't see it) and when I would respond in some way, I was the bad guy. I started a thread titled "Victim Mentality" that is a little informative on this. What can really suck is if the jerk-behavior starts after you've invested yourself emotionally. It's hard to sever yourself from someone then and it can devolve into an abusive relationship...

Edited July 24, 2011 by JHS

[JHS]

Yes and no. I have yet to meet a woman who feels empathy, and who really acts like she understands love (as opposed to schadenfreude). To be female is to feel pleasure by withholding love, not giving or getting it. If you're going to beat me up, go ahead... but it's what my experiences taught me.

 

Wow, this is either extremely cynical or extremely scary (meaning scary if it's true). I think I have found females with empathy but it's not a common trait, I will say...

 

But what about Mother Theresa? Surely she had empathy.

[Disillusioned]

Wow, this is either extremely cynical or extremely scary (meaning scary if it's true).

 

In my experience, it is true.I've known other men to express empathy and love, but they keep it to themselves; I've never known a woman to express empathy or love.

 

But what about Mother Theresa? Surely she had empathy.

 

Now you're just being silly.

[Fondue]

Why do men think they have to break down walls? Just go along with the ride, man. All these dudes think they have to be knights in shinning armor are not understanding the point.

 

If she has walls, then let them fall on their own. Let her deal with it. Once she's ready, she'll be ready. Till then, just go with the flow.

[Shaun-Dro]

Why do men think they have to break down walls? Just go along with the ride, man. All these dudes think they have to be knights in shinning armor are not understanding the point.

 

If she has walls, then let them fall on their own. Let her deal with it. Once she's ready, she'll be ready. Till then, just go with the flow.

 

I agree and that's what I wanted to get across, but I was misunderstood. I never said anything about throwing crap back at them as a poster said, but to let them be and to withhold your "better" self until she shows hers.

[misssmartypants]

Great topic! and so far there hasn't been much "hating" being aimed at either gender.

 

Op: I agree with a few of the posters who said you weren't specific enough about walls and jerky behavior. What one person percieves as jerky another feels is justified. Communication is part of that, and differing frames of reference is another.

 

On the topic of walls, I know they are real and can play a role in how people act. I have walls. I have MAJOR WALLS. That doesn't mean I don't love the people I love. That doesn't mean I don't feel for people who are hurting, it just means that I am slow to show my true self and tell all my secrets.

 

The people who are close to me in my life got that way, not by trying to break through my walls, but by respecting them and my boudries until I felt I could trust them.

 

I always try to be very honest and direct with people. I recently ended a relationship and I am sure from his point of view I let him get invested and then pushed him away. From my point of view I had spoken to him several times about something he did that made me feel cheap and like a booty call. When he did it again I let him know I was upset. When he pushed me about talking to him RIGHT NOW about it, I ended things. I need space to process my feelings sometimes, if I can't get it in a relationship, then that isn't the relationship for me.

 

There certainly are co-dependant personalities out there that play the "go away, no come back" game. They tend to end up in these relationships full of cheating, breaking up, making up, and cycling all over again. I have very little sympathy when a man or a woman complains about being in that sort of pattern, because it takes two people to keep it going.

 

As to my own walls, they manifest in kind of a cool courtesy. I'm friendly with co-workers, neighbors and most people. But they don't really know much more than what they need to know. Sometimes I give them "information" without feeling. Its hard to explain.

 

To me, the absolutely scariest thing in the world would be laying out all my secrets, all my traumas and guilts for a stranger to see and know about. I'd rather be naked in public. I'd rather have sex with a stranger, than do that.

 

Am I messed up? Probably. Am I evil or looking to take advantage of someone or hurt them? No, not at all.

[stillafool]

We all know that most women have been hurt and they put up a huge wall that protects their heart. Sadly a lot of times they come off as not being protective but hurtful to people who care for them or are trying to care for them. I was wondering do these women even realize that they are pushing a person away? When noone is trying to hurt you and you keep being harsh to them then you are the jerk in the situation. My question is do women realize they do this and are they really wanting to be left alone? I mean really?

 

I guess you are talking about people who are "emotionally unavailable". Most women have this same complaint about men they are interested in. I think when someone is pushing you away it is because they don't want you. Stop trying to read something else into their behavior. If she is pushing you away, lleave her alone.

[carhill]

I think when someone is pushing you away it is because they don't want you.

 

I agree with this and learned many years ago to accept it; nevertheless, the surprise and severity with which it hits can be disconcerting psychologically when one is in a supposedly mutually loving and emotionally invested relationship. I've become more attuned to the nuances, the 'foreshocks' if you will, but the main 'earthquake' still can be sudden and unexpected, both in timing and scope. The difference with time and acceptance is that, when experiencing those 'foreshocks', I can prepare psychologically for the 'main event' to accept its potential.

 

As a result of such data points, once a woman reveals disturbing details of past experiences (one of the 'foreshocks'), especially out of order with our level of intimacy, I expect the inevitable irreconcilable incompatibility. The requisite 'test' to determine her growth is the care and empathy she proactively shows regarding my life. That sounds simple but you'd be surprised at how few women I've met who have that capacity or show that expression. Those are the 'walls' I look for. When they're clear, I wish them well and move on.

[Disillusioned]

I also know that you are too smart to believe, that the essence of being a woman, is to enjoy witholding love.

 

I'm not that smart. I wish I could say I'm lying, but experience has taught me otherwise.

 

Fair's fair though... I don't have to share my good times with anyone.

[mo mo]

I agree and that's what I wanted to get across, but I was misunderstood. I never said anything about throwing crap back at them as a poster said, but to let them be and to withhold your "better" self until she shows hers.

 

This is what you said

 

The best way to bust their walls down is to direct what she's doing right back at her. It's worked for me and I know it would do the same for other men with the resiliency and the spine to do so.

 

Since this thread is not just about women putting up walls, but going to extreme lengths, to the point where she is directly telling a guy to go away and/or is being rude, insensitive, and harsh, "going with the flow" is not really an option.

 

I mean, "going with the flow" with a girl who is rude to you for absolutely no reason is the definition of spineless.