ilikesunita Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Tell me this, why do mental health professionals state things that most people don't do, think or even believe? most of them state to eat healthily - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14253921 - read the hyperlink and go figure, so much for their advice most say exercise - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html - go figure again most say to be spiritual - whilst most in the world are religious, some parts are are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Studies_and_statistics so, since mental health beliefs are not descriptive, does the entire practice make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Tell me this, why do mental health professionals state things that most people don't do, think or even believe? most of them state to eat healthily - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14253921 - read the hyperlink and go figure, so much for their advice most say exercise - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html - go figure again most say to be spiritual - whilst most in the world are religious, some parts are are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Studies_and_statistics so, since mental health beliefs are not descriptive, does the entire practice make sense? Wow. Never thought of it that way. That is one well thought-out, airtight argument. Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Wow. Never thought of it that way. That is one well thought-out, airtight argument. Eh, I disagree. First of all psychiatrists and psychologists give advice. Giving someone advice isn't a command, and it's a choice whether you accept it or not. Just because most people don't practice healthy living with a sound diet and regular exercise, doesn't make the people that do in the wrong. It is proven eating healthy and regular exercise makes you happier, but all psychiatrists/psychologists can do is advise people to do so. The real changes rely on the individual considering the advice. It's like going to the dentist, and a dentist advising you to floss more regularly because it promotes healthy gums. I'm sure the majority of people don't floss as much as they should, but does that make the dentist wrong? So I guess you're one of those people that would jump off the bridge if everyone else was doing it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Eh, I disagree. First of all psychiatrists and psychologists give advice. Giving someone advice isn't a command, and it's a choice whether you accept it or not. Just because most people don't practice healthy living with a sound diet and regular exercise, doesn't make the people that do in the wrong. It is proven eating healthy and regular exercise makes you happier, but all psychiatrists/psychologists can do is advise people to do so. The real changes rely on the individual considering the advice. It's like going to the dentist, and a dentist advising you to floss more regularly because it promotes healthy gums. I'm sure the majority of people don't floss as much as they should, but does that make the dentist wrong? So I guess you're one of those people that would jump off the bridge if everyone else was doing it? You're making excuses for the mental health profession. lol. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Wow. Never thought of it that way. That is one well thought-out, airtight argument. /sarcasm helps! Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 You're making excuses for the mental health profession. lol. And it sounds like you're blaming other people for your own problems. Baaahhh Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 And it sounds like you're blaming other people for your own problems. Baaahhh no, i simply think psychiatry is bunk and should be outlawed. When perchance did I say I am blaming others for my own problems? Do mental health professionals make comments with grounding or substantiation? Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 no, i simply think psychiatry is bunk and should be outlawed. When perchance did I say I am blaming others for my own problems? Do mental health professionals make comments with grounding or substantiation? Your behavior is enough grounding to make that claim. Why would you want it outlawed? Are you fat/out of shape/athiest, or generally just insecure, and trying to make yourself feel better about it? How are they hurting anyone by suggesting healthy living? Can you produce an actual argument rather than your own opinion? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Your behavior is enough grounding to make that claim. Why would you want it outlawed? Are you fat/out of shape/athiest, or generally just insecure, and trying to make yourself feel better about it? How are they hurting anyone by suggesting healthy living? Can you produce an actual argument rather than your own opinion? Outlawed since it serves no purpose other than to push forward subjective beliefs of life. Are YOU so insecure, in that others' beliefs offend you and phase you? Why do you let a stranger's attitudes rile you? Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Outlawed since it serves no purpose other than to push forward subjective beliefs of life. Are YOU so insecure, in that others' beliefs offend you and phase you? Why do you let a stranger's attitudes rile you? If it pushes people towards living more healthy, who is it hurting? If people suggesting living and eating healthy makes you feel insecure and unsure of yourself, then I guess your current beliefs aren't very strong to begin with. I'm not letting anyones attitudes offend me, all I did was provide a response to your "argument". Does that make me insecure? I did it more for amusement. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 If it pushes people towards living more healthy, who is it hurting? If people suggesting living and eating healthy makes you feel insecure and unsure of yourself, then I guess your current beliefs aren't very strong to begin with. I'm not letting anyones attitudes offend me, all I did was provide a response to your "argument". Does that make me insecure? I did it more for amusement. lol... I don't care either way. Man in my estimation is the measure of all things, and it simply is the psychiatric profession pushing people to act as they think is right. This hardly occurs in other branches of medicine, so there is no reason for psychiatry to be the odd one out. Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I guess you should make a thread about outlawing every factor in the world that is trying to influence you to act a certain way . It's way more then just "psychiatry". Regardless, people can influence you to act a certain way but in the end you're the one making the decision. I guess my accusations about you proved correct after all. "It's like going to the dentist, and a dentist advising you to floss more regularly because it promotes healthy gums. I'm sure the majority of people don't floss as much as they should, but does that make the dentist wrong?" - Theres another branch of medicine for ya. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 I guess you should make a thread about outlawing every factor in the world that is trying to influence you to act a certain way . It's way more then just "psychiatry". Regardless, people can influence you to act a certain way but in the end you're the one making the decision. I guess my accusations about you proved correct after all. "It's like going to the dentist, and a dentist advising you to floss more regularly because it promotes healthy gums. I'm sure the majority of people don't floss as much as they should, but does that make the dentist wrong?" - Theres another branch of medicine for ya. lol.. no. Flossing is proven to work. Everybody knows that. Everybody also knows that eating too many fatty foods is bad, drinking too much alcohol, not exercising enough, etc.. But normalcy in behaviour, thought and action is completely subjective. this is why psychiatry is just belief, and not fact. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 /sarcasm helps! Yeah - I like to think my command of the English language is so concrete and precise that I can make an obviously extreme statement like that without needing an emoticon or a closing tag as a signpost, but.... lol.. no. Flossing is proven to work. Yeah, that's what my psychiatrist told me, anyway. Everybody also knows that eating too many fatty foods is bad, drinking too much alcohol, not exercising enough, etc.. You realize you just eviscerated two of the 3 arguments of your opening post? But normalcy in behaviour, thought and action is completely subjective. this is why psychiatry is just belief, and not fact. Too bad you didn't start the thread with that thesis. You might have sounded somewhat coherent, and maybe sparked an interesting discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
PelicanPete Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Never thought of it that way. That is one well thought-out, airtight argument. I quickly discovered it was sarcasm, but in the moment of posting I never really read any of your posts prior and I didn't want to bank on it in case you were actually serious But normalcy in behaviour, thought and action is completely subjective. this is why psychiatry is just belief, and not fact. Of course normalcy is subjective, the goal of a psychologist/psychiatrist isn't to make you "normal", but to help you change behaviors about yourself you have trouble living with. Some people are forced to those professionals against their will because if ignored their "beliefs" could be a threat to themselves or other people. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Tell me this, why do mental health professionals state things that most people don't do, think or even believe? most of them state to eat healthily - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14253921 - read the hyperlink and go figure, so much for their advice most say exercise - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html - go figure again most say to be spiritual - whilst most in the world are religious, some parts are are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Studies_and_statistics so, since mental health beliefs are not descriptive, does the entire practice make sense? The goal of mental health professionals is to help the individual to become their best self. Their healthiest, their most fulfilled and actualized. They encourage people to plan their life and make goals in life to become the best they can be. They help people deal with and overcome the problems, set backs and hurdles that they are dealing with. They encourage people to explore their spirituality in order to find meaning in life. And, of course, they treat mental illness and mental disorders. Obviously, there are a lot of people in the world that are not interested or motivated to improve their lives and are content to stay the same. But for those that want help to improve their lives, psychologists and psychiatrists provide a valuable service. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 When you open the front door and smell the doggy doo, look down so you don't step in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Feelin Frisky Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 This thread title is not only wrong, it's dangerous advice. Psychiatry is not what it used to be and has no connection at all to the way it had been portrayed in movies in eras passed. A psychiatrist is not an analyst. A psychiatrist is an M.D.--a physician. He or she's job is not to sit there and listen to you and try to blame your mother or whatever. If anyone does that it is a psychologist which is something very different. A psychiatrist is simply gears to address the physiology of your mind/brain and prescribe medication where appropriate to help level the playing field for a person with off-kilter chemical issues in the brain which manifest as emotional or behavioral problems. A good psychiatrist will ask you about your current sleep patterns, nutrition, and how if at all you've responded to previously prescribed medication. That's about it. There's no "bunk" to it--it's all about chemicals and whether yours are working in harmony or eating you alive. Psychology or psychoanalysis is where there is a lot of what could be called "bunk". Practitioners try to apply reason to your reason--to me that's an outdated idea. All psychological issues are driven by chemistry. And until one sees a psychiatrist and arrests the chemical disarray that is involved in such things as overreaction, phobia, obsession, paranoia etc, trying to meat those extremes with simply reason is like pissing in the wind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 The goal of mental health professionals is to help the individual to become their best self. Their healthiest, their most fulfilled and actualized. They encourage people to plan their life and make goals in life to become the best they can be. They help people deal with and overcome the problems, set backs and hurdles that they are dealing with. They encourage people to explore their spirituality in order to find meaning in life. And, of course, they treat mental illness and mental disorders. Obviously, there are a lot of people in the world that are not interested or motivated to improve their lives and are content to stay the same. But for those that want help to improve their lives, psychologists and psychiatrists provide a valuable service. And via the way of improving it is simply based on the personal beliefs of psychiatrists. You realize you just eviscerated two of the 3 arguments of your opening post? That is proven via research. There is no research to state that eating fatty foods is bad for mental health. It is because psychiatrists wish to push a given way of behaving onto people. An individual should, and frankly has to, choose how s/he conducts himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Trishi Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) Tell me this, why do mental health professionals state things that most people don't do, think or even believe? most of them state to eat healthily - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14253921 - read the hyperlink and go figure, so much for their advice My psychiatrist have advised me to eat more fat food. He even highlighted McDonalds as a good place to go for fastfood. My medications are making me lose weight fast, and I have trouble keeping the kilos. They don't blindly advise anyone to eat healthy - They advise you based on you, and who you are. If you are fat, of course they will advise you to eat more healthy - if you have a mental trauma, losing weight can help make your mood better. most say exercise - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html - go figure again Exercise builds muscles, which is positive weight. What's more, it increases adrenaline production (or something in that vein) that helps making you more energic, and therefore more positive in general. For this reason, I assumed doing exercise 3 hours a day was a good thing, so I did. I have gotten better at keeping my body fat, and are actually feeling better, after he advised me to reduce it to a maximum of 1 hour a day. Less than I did previously most say to be spiritual - whilst most in the world are religious, some parts are are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Studies_and_statistics Being spiritual isn't a good thing in itself. The point is that it helps you mentally to believe there are some greater power watching over you. Not everyone needs it, and if you don't, that's good for you. so, since mental health beliefs are not descriptive, does the entire practice make sense? The entire pratice makes perfect sense. You know, it's funny. The thing I was told before being send to a psychiatrist for the first time, was, and I quote: I can send you to someone I know is good, but I need to know if you really want help, and want to believe in this person - Because if you don't, he can't help you. It's simple, really. I was send there because of a severe depression, and this guy have helped me more than I had ever imagined he possibly could. If I had refused to believe this guy could help me, he wouldn't have had a chance. I did, and that's why it helped. If you are talking from experience, I dare ask... Had you expected to just sit in a chair, and have him magically cure you of your mental problems? He have advised me on my eating behavior, my exercise, or rather, lack thereof, and he advised me, by giving me stacks of different hand-outs from different religions and the like, and advised me to find shelter in some sort of religion. All of these things have helped me, the exact same things you are using as arguments for why the pratice is "bunk". They don't give advise based on what is the "norm". They give advise based on you and what you can do to improve your mental health. If you suffer from the normal problems, of course they will advise you to do the "normal" - The exact things you have said are "bunk". Ironic isn't it? Edited July 25, 2011 by Trishi Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 My psychiatrist have advised me to eat more fat food. He even highlighted McDonalds as a good place to go for fastfood. My medications are making me lose weight fast, and I have trouble keeping the kilos. They don't blindly advise anyone to eat healthy - They advise you based on you, and who you are. If you are fat, of course they will advise you to eat more healthy - if you have a mental trauma, losing weight can help make your mood better. Exercise builds muscles, which is positive weight. What's more, it increases adrenaline production (or something in that vein) that helps making you more energic, and therefore more positive in general. For this reason, I assumed doing exercise 3 hours a day was a good thing, so I did. I have gotten better at keeping my body fat, and are actually feeling better, after he advised me to reduce it to a maximum of 1 hour a day. Less than I did previously Being spiritual isn't a good thing in itself. The point is that it helps you mentally to believe there are some greater power watching over you. Not everyone needs it, and if you don't, that's good for you. The entire pratice makes perfect sense. You know, it's funny. The thing I was told before being send to a psychiatrist for the first time, was, and I quote: It's simple, really. I was send there because of a severe depression, and this guy have helped me more than I had ever imagined he possibly could. If I had refused to believe this guy could help me, he wouldn't have had a chance. I did, and that's why it helped. If you are talking from experience, I dare ask... Had you expected to just sit in a chair, and have him magically cure you of your mental problems? He have advised me on my eating behavior, my exercise, or rather, lack thereof, and he advised me, by giving me stacks of different hand-outs from different religions and the like, and advised me to find shelter in some sort of religion. All of these things have helped me, the exact same things you are using as arguments for why the pratice is "bunk". They don't give advise based on what is the "norm". They give advise based on you and what you can do to improve your mental health. If you suffer from the normal problems, of course they will advise you to do the "normal" - The exact things you have said are "bunk". Ironic isn't it? No, it's just psychiatrists pushing their own beliefs of life onto society. Nobody needs religion, millions eat unhealthily, so what these people say doesn't even reflect the norms of society. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 The goal of mental health professionals is to help the individual to become their best self. Their healthiest, their most fulfilled and actualized. They encourage people to plan their life and make goals in life to become the best they can be. They help people deal with and overcome the problems, set backs and hurdles that they are dealing with. They encourage people to explore their spirituality in order to find meaning in life. And, of course, they treat mental illness and mental disorders. Obviously, there are a lot of people in the world that are not interested or motivated to improve their lives and are content to stay the same. But for those that want help to improve their lives, psychologists and psychiatrists provide a valuable service. Which service? they essentially are saying that given behaviours are optimally good, without any substantiation behind it. Mental health professionals must be autistic or otherwise duped, since they cannot relate to society as it is. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Psychology or psychoanalysis is where there is a lot of what could be called "bunk". Practitioners try to apply reason to your reason--to me that's an outdated idea. All psychological issues are driven by chemistry. And until one sees a psychiatrist and arrests the chemical disarray that is involved in such things as overreaction, phobia, obsession, paranoia etc, trying to meat those extremes with simply reason is like pissing in the wind. I disagree. My inability to speak Spanish is just because I have the wrong brain chemistry to do so, but I'll change that brain chemistry by talking with someone. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ilikesunita Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Never thought of it that way. That is one well thought-out, airtight argument. So it means that most persons in the world are mentally unhealthy. That said, I don't detest anything that can enhance people's wellbeing. Link to post Share on other sites
Trishi Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 No, it's just psychiatrists pushing their own beliefs of life onto society. Nobody needs religion, millions eat unhealthily, so what these people say doesn't even reflect the norms of society. They aren't pushing their own beliefs onto anyone. They are schooled to know how to handle different individuals. So if anything, it's the teachers who are pushing their beliefs onto others. I'll play along - What are "the norms of society"? And more importantly, would you prefer to follow "the norms of society", no matter how stupid it is? Link to post Share on other sites
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