Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[Star Gazer]

I would keep communication going at a low key level and end it in person after he gets back.

 

This. Please do not ruin his vacation. That would be a horribly cruel thing to do. Don't say, "We need to talk" either. Just tell him to enjoy himself, and end it IN PERSON when he gets back.

[BetheButterfly]

OK, so I have made the decision to end it.

 

While I am sad to read this, it is for the best. You are not ready for a relationship with any man until you have healed from the emotional wounds you carry.

 

 

It's not even the current lack of contact - he has personality traits that I don't want in a long term partner. Sure - so do I, but I am not deciding if I should dump myself. I will never be at inner peace if I don't end something that I intuitively know is not right for me.

 

You will never find a perfect man. Perfect men do not exist. Perfect women don't exist either. The answer is to learn how to love and respect each other. The answer is not focusing on if a person is perfect or not, because the fact of the matter is... nobody is perfect.

 

Not sure how to go about it. We have been together for 5 months and he has 17 days left in Europe. He is a good person despite his flaws and I am sure he will make a great partner for someone that is highly secure but aggressive and doesn't mind living with inconsistency and a weak man.

 

You are a weak woman. You let your mind run wild. You need to learn how to control your emotions and thought patterns, so that they won't control you. I do not say this to offend you and I hope you don't take it as an insult. Rather, I hope you take it as a realization that you need to work on how you use your brain, so that you can have a successful relationship.

 

Practical details are that he has left me all of his keys. To his car, his apartment (all copies) - so I will need to wait for him at the airport I am also half-way through cleaning up his apartment, doing his washing etc (he hasn't asked me to do this, it was my idea). I plan to finish it fully despite the break-up.

 

That's nice of you to do his wash.

I have learned something from this. For the first time in years, I have gone past the dating stage, past the small talk, and truly opened up to someone on a deeper level. It is a big thing for me.

 

That's why it saddens me that you are just going to take the easy way out. However, again, you are not ready for a relationship, since you still need to work on how you think about relationships. Your mental process is destructive at the moment. though I'm glad you're doing better, you still have a ways to go.

I don't want to punish him or make this any harder than it needs to be. Should I break with him the next time we Skype?

 

I would suggest for you to just wait till he is home, because it will probably hurt him. I would wait till he has the support of his family around him.

 

I know it would be better to do it in person but it's hard for me to go through the motions of keeping in even limited contact with him. I have been unable to even respond to his yesterday's long e-mail. Today, my friend (who incidentally knows him quite well too) - so I haven't told her anything about our relationship - posted this song about a couple that are in LDR and missing each other like crazy - then she tagged me and the bf. I just inwardly cringed I can't keep this up for the next 2 weeks or so. I also want him to make the most out of his possible opportunities and hook ups in Europe.

 

You really have no idea what love is, do you? "make the most of his possible opportunities and hook ups in Europe" What??? If you truly knew what love is, you would understand that a man who truly loves a woman would not think about the above!

 

True love doesn't think of women in some other place as "possible opportunities and hookups" No. True love is faithful and trusting. You have much to learn about love. Love is not lust or sex with random people. Relationship love between a man and woman is profoundly caring for one person, excluding others. How do you think marriage vows came to such a conclusion? Because there are people who do experience true love.

Any ideas on how to go about this break-up are welcome. There is probably a simple solution but my mind just can't seem to grasp it at the moment.

 

If you absolutely feel you have to right now, then write him a reply to his email, telling him you want to break up with him and that you need to work on yourself. Then, make sure not to take him back even if he pleads with you.

 

If you can think of him too and care for him too, then wait till he gets back, unless you think that breaking up with him will make him happy.

[oaks]

OK, so I have made the decision to end it.

 

ES, I'm sorry that it didn't work out.

[Star Gazer]

I do agree with you that I need professional help. Howewer, what you fail to realize is that it's only about 50% of the battle (if that). The rest is finding the right guy. Even if I were emotionally healthy, my current bf is not right for me.

 

THAT is where you are dead wrong, ES.

 

Until you become emotionally healthy, you will never know if any guy - this one included - is the right one for you.

[BetheButterfly]

THAT is where you are dead wrong, ES.

 

Until you become emotionally healthy, you will never know if any guy - this one included - is the right one for you.

 

100% true.

 

You need to work on yourself, ES, before getting into any other relationship.

 

Being weak isn't a permanent state. How does one who is physically weak get strong? By working out. You need to work out your mind and how you think concerning relationships and men. You can become strong and healthy, but it takes work. It's not always fun and it's not always easy. Sometimes it hurts, but it is very worthwhile.

 

Work on yourself. Learn what true love is. If you do, you won't regret it.

[Nexus One]

Get ready, this is going to be long. I am sorry if I am repeating myself, I have spoken to few people about this issue privately so I have forgotten what exactly have I posted publicly.

 

I do admit to my own issues all the time. I call myself f-ed up, crazy etc.

 

I KNOW that I have anxiety problem coupled with having low self-esteem. BUT my bf being the way he is, is only triggering my anxieties. He admits himself that he is hot and cold and that his emotions change constantly. This is simply a bad match for an anxious person.

 

As for high level of contact, no I wouldn't need it as long as it was CONSISTENT. It's hard to see someone bombarding you with over the top loving declarations every hour one week, to having barely any contact next week (and the little contact is formal and cold). You can't help but wonder "What the hell happened?". He does this ALL the time.

 

His first major lie (that I am aware of) and being deceitful was at 2 months mark. It should be noted that in the first 2 months, we had no arguments. He wasn't aware then that I am anxious or insecure or that my reactions are over the top. He asked me for a short break in a relationship. This didn't sit right with me and I decided to break up. He then turned around and started crying, begging for forgiveness, insisting that he had absolutely no doubts about our relationship. That the only reason he asked for a break was that he was single for a long time and he is having trouble adjusting to being in a relationship, not seeing his friends as much as he used to etc. Again, nothing to do with me, he really liked me and was 100% that he wants to be with me long term. I forgave him and we got back together.

 

Him asking for a break never quite left my mind. His explanation just didn't sit well with me. A friend of his showed me a text where bf was having major doubts at 2 months mark and that he was then considering "other girls".

 

So I decided to start detailed snooping. I looked through his e-mails and found a bunch of them where he e-mailed his best friend that lives in UK and describes our relationship in great detail. I looked for some from around that time. The news wasn't good. There were apparently 2 other girls that were interested in him at around the time he met me. He asked me to be exclusive at 1 one month mark, but he was seriously considering pursuing one of the two girls for a whole month after he asked me for exclusivity. He was even in flirty text contact with her. At the time he asked for a break, he did it because he was thinking of breaking up with me so that he can pursue that girl.

 

I was gutted when I read that. Yet, as you can see above, his reasons for a break were all LIES. Also, while begging me to take him back - he was e-mailing his friend and telling him that he now has more doubts about us than ever. Yet assuring me that he is 100% sure and invested in our relationship.

 

It should also be noted that his doubts had nothing to do with me being crazy (at that stage he didn't know) or me not being into him or something. He even wrote to his friend that he thinks I am really into him but he just feels that the other girl is slightly hotter and more outgoing and he thinks he prefers that

 

Anyway, e-mails to his friend abruptly stop around that time so now I have nothing else to go on. I strongly suspect that he either opened up another account or started deleting them.

 

I confronted him over that (he cried again) and said that at the time he wasn't in love with me yet but that he is in love with me now so that those issues are irrelevant. He also claimed to have no contact with that girl - a fact I can't verify 100%.

 

My issue is the sheer deceit around that episode. While having those serious doubts he did the following:

 

1. Asked me to be exclusive

2. Sent me a formal FB "in a relationship" thing

3. Changed his FB profile picture to the one of us

 

I would have no issue with multi-dating during the non-exclusivity time. I could have even forgiven the whole episode if he admitted everything honestly. But the outright lies on why he wanted the break and the outright deceit in leading me to believe that the relationship was stronger and more serious than it really was is what really gets to me.

 

How can I trust anything now? How can I know that there are no other girls, no serious thoughts of breaking up when he gets this distant?

 

I can tell you all honestly, if that 2 months episode didn't happen - I would have settled into the relationship by now, relaxed a bit and stopped over-analyzing.

 

I did think that I could perhaps get over it but it turns out that I can't. I would much prefer someone that is consistent and trustworthy than over the top romanticism, tears and other nice little things he does for me. His latest bout of inconsistency makes me even more sure that I am making the right decision in not staying with him.

 

My mum, who desperately wants me to get married and have kids ASAP and who absolutely loved my bf when she met him - has told me yesterday to get out of this, that he isn't treating me right and that I can do better.

 

I still have more time to think, just to make sure that this is what I really want (i.e. ending it). This time if I end it, there will be no going back. At this stage, there is absolutely nothing he can say or do to change my mind in staying with him. I won't be breaking up over a single issue or a couple of issues. It will be that his whole character just doesn't mesh with mine. He has some deal breakers that I can't get over (mainly dishonesty, inconsistency and having generally weak and wimpy character).

 

I'm glad you posted this ES, because it shows that you do have a coherent perspective on things, which I previously thought perhaps might not have been the case, because your posts seemed erratic. I kept in mind that perhaps you in your mind had a picture of how those erratic posts/situations are woven together. And in my opinion this post shows that that is indeed the case. That's why I said earlier on that I thought it probably wasn't as black and white as most posters thought.

 

People have been bashing you because what they see is the erratic posts, but not the rationale that weaves them together, so they fill in the blanks themselves and they do it the easy way by thinking you're crazy. I have to give props to TBF for seeing that through. While I don't agree with everything she says on this issue, she did see that through and I didn't or at least I wasn't prepared to jump to that conclusion just quite yet.

 

When I was reading your threads I was baffled by the fact that a highly educated 33 year old woman could be so erratic and jump in her mind from one extreme to another. The reason for me being baffled I think is that you often don't explain the connection between those "jumps", which like I said causes people to not understand you, because they're missing the information that will make sense of your thought pattern, hence they fill in the blanks by thinking you're crazy. That's why I'm always such a huge proponent of people explaining the rationale behind the things they say and do, because otherwise people WILL get the wrong idea of you, people will always and have always been filling in the blanks when it comes to other people in order for them to make sense of the world.

 

I every now and then poke fun at you too, I don't mean it in a mean-spirited way though, more in a way to throw some humor into the thread.

 

That being said, I still think you're quite a perfectionist, you might over-analyze, but I think you do that because you're longing for the perfect man and relationship. So you react intensely to everything that's a blemish to that perfection. I can't tell you whether that's wrong or right, I'm not wise enough to answer that. What I do know is that that could be compared to winding a guitar string too tight, which causes the string to snap. Which in my experience is what I think I'm sometimes witnessing in your threads. I can't tell you whether I'm correct on that or not, only you could tell that by observing your own mind by taking a few steps back and looking at it. That in my opinion is one way of how wisdom is formed, we're all learning, in that respect we're not any different from each other. Life is learning and once we think we have it all figured out that life ends, that's ironic, mais c'est la vie.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Nexus One

[threebyfate]

This guy's shady so you're making the right decision, ES. But do wait until he comes home before you break up with him.

[torn_curtain]

As I've said before, I think it's strange that anyone can judge the guy and his intentions towards ES based upon what we know. We ONLY know what she tells us. When she wants support for the relationship, she tells us lovey dovey stuff. When she wants support in being a victim, she trash talks the guy.

 

Isn't it epically clear that we are getting a profoundly biased picture of boyfriend?

 

Of course we only get one side of EVERY story here on LS but in this poster's threads, it's extreme.

 

We do, however, get a pretty intense picture of ES and how she thinks, and what she does, and what she considers a problem and what's worthy of some good pot stirring.

 

I think we really can ONLY comment with any reasonable basis upon ES herself and how she's comporting herself, with the information we get. Which is plentiful.

 

Hmm. I"m not sure i agree.

 

I read the old thread she started on this relationship and the thing that stuck out most to me about her boyfriend was that earlier in the relationship long after they were committed he lied to her repeatedly and even contacted a few other women he was interested in while he desperately begged ES to take him back. Isn't that reason enough for her to break it off? If I found out a guy I was seeing exclusively had done this I would never trust him again.

 

I'm not denying that ES has issues but people seem to be using that to excuse her boyfriend's behavior. Is it fair to say that someone who has problems of their own should accept poor treatment from a partner? If anything wouldn't being with someone who is also troubled create codependency?

 

I agree with you that it would be good for ES to take some time off and sort her issues out but I disagree that she should settle for a BF she isn't in love with who has proven himself untrustworthy. Actually that seems like a terrible idea.

[zengirl]

THAT is where you are dead wrong, ES.

 

Until you become emotionally healthy, you will never know if any guy - this one included - is the right one for you.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much my whole point.

 

Not that this guy sounds like a bowl of cherries or anything. And likely anyone who could be in a relationship with ES in her current state wouldn't be the right one for a healthy relationship with her.

 

So it really is a Catch-22 in some ways. I think that's always true when we're learning/growing, but what bothers me is that I haven't yet seen any growth from ES in this relationship. Dismissing it as "That guy's shady" allows ES to decide not to grow.

 

I suppose there could be some growth if she actually has a mature breakup. That would be a new change.

 

I just think the whole, "Look at all the things this guy did wrong way back when" is weird. Well, you decided to let those go by continuing on with him and then posting about something he's doing now (not Skyping all the time from vacation) that isn't actually a problem for most healthy people. This whole relationship as a score sheet doesn't really work out for either of them: they've BOTH done things that many healthy people would find downright unacceptable in a partner. That doesn't mean you stay with him, but it does mean you throw the whole score sheet notion out, I think, and look at the underlying patterns and problems in your own life, rather than basing it on the wrong/right guy scenario.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Hmm. I"m not sure i agree.

 

I read the old thread she started on this relationship and the thing that stuck out most to me about her boyfriend was that earlier in the relationship long after they were committed he lied to her repeatedly and even contacted a few other women he was interested in while he desperately begged ES to take him back. Isn't that reason enough for her to break it off? If I found out a guy I was seeing exclusively had done this I would never trust him again.

 

I'm not denying that ES has issues but people seem to be using that to excuse her boyfriend's behavior. Is it fair to say that someone who has problems of their own should accept poor treatment from a partner? If anything wouldn't being with someone who is also troubled create codependency?

 

I agree with you that it would be good for ES to take some time off and sort her issues out but I disagree that she should settle for a BF she isn't in love with who has proven himself untrustworthy. Actually that seems like a terrible idea.

 

I'm not going back to find quotes and fact check, but as I recall:

 

There was ONE "lie by omission." The time he encountered an ex at a club and did not tell ES about it at the time. He told her the following day. Are there more?

 

Recently, she got bf's friend to "share" texts with her from the relationship's early days, where he evidently said that he was interested in 2 other girls and that he was not sure he was really into ES. Is there more?

 

Whether there is more or not,

 

1) they were "dating." True love had not been fallen into yet.

 

2) the circumstances under which she discovered that stuff are truly suspect. WHAT guy shows texts from his friend to the friend's girlfriend? What guy even saves such texts, or realizes he has them, months later? I've never heard of such a thing.

 

3) RE the above - what if he were to have been privy to all her doubtful, "meh," NSA sex offer, etc. posts here on LS? Would this not cast her in just as dubious a light as his alleged shared texts cast him? And / or depict the two of them as "just right" for one another?

 

4) Any time ES feels insecure, she dabbles with the idea of going out with other men. The dabbling is not just a passing and quickly dismissed thought - it extends to phone number exchanges, entire threads on LS, telling her (probably completely at wits' end) bf about it.

 

Does this make it okay for him to do it? No. But it also makes it unwise for him to be judged harshly for it, if he indeed does it (which I have never seen evidence of). Really, it makes it sound like they are two peas in a pod, as far as their "standards" are concerned, if he DOES do that. People who do stuff like that SHOULD find each other.

 

I do agree that if she is not in love with him, the relationship is a sham - since she has declared her deep love for him many, many times both here and to him (if she's honest here.)

 

So, she is either in love with him - or SHE is dishonest and untrustworthy, herself.

 

Anyway, it's been determined that she will be dumping the guy. Very disturbing, after the recent thread she started about "Girls and boys beware" where she cautioned all of us against drowning "good" relationships in a quagmire of negativity, as she perceived that she'd done.

 

And, here she is - drowning her own relationship in a quagmire of negativity, and deciding to (mercifully) end it.

 

We'll see, though. Rather than ending the relationship, I would suggest that the real goal here would be to extract vehement protestations of love, self debasement, abandonment of any pursuits outside of paying attention to his gf.

 

Maybe he'll even cut his trip short and come rushing back.

 

That might appease ES for a week.

[Mme. Chaucer]

This guy's shady so you're making the right decision, ES. But do wait until he comes home before you break up with him.

 

Helping ES to "blame" this on the guy ...

 

Is not helping her at all. This has nothing to do with "tough love" or love of any kind. It has to do with personal accountability being at the core of all successful interpersonal relationships. At the core of all successful LIVES, in my opinion.

 

Maybe he is "shady" and maybe he is princely. We have no idea. We know that ES cannot function within this relationship. That's what we know.

[Eternal Sunshine]

There has been no growth in this relationship because I found out that I can't trust him and I have struggled with it for a long time. It's not paranoia, I saw it in black and white and he straight up admitted to it (after my questioning).

 

Before I knew what was happening exactly, just the fact that he asked for a break after 2 months was weird. I had this little voice in my head tell me over and over again, no matter what loving thing he did or said "but he asked for a break". This lead to snooping and what I found left me even more uneasy. Why did I stay with him? Good question. I couldn't trust myself to make the right decision, I kept making excuses for him in my mind. I thought that I could get over it in time but I have since realized that I can't. I tend to be too idealistic so I often thought "Perhaps I am thinking too much and nobody is perfect".

 

Another thing is that when I initially asked him on why he wanted a break and told him that his reasons just don't ring true - he said "Are you trusting your intuition again? You are a negative and pessimistic person so you are assuming the worst. I can tell you right now that you are completely wrong". As it turns it, it really was the "worst".

 

Now, if I have behaved this way and the 2 month thing never happened, I would agree with all of you that think that I am bat**** insane. But this way, I feel like even most emotionally healthy women would have trouble trusting him. My only mistake really is not ending it sooner.

 

So yeah, I am surely not going to look back at this relationship and think one day "Wow, I let this great guy go because I had serious issues".

[Eternal Sunshine]

Sigh. He asked for a 30-minute Skype session tomorrow. Now I will have to go through the motions of pretending that everything is fine

 

I really want to put this whole mess behind me ASAP

[EricaH329]

Hey ES! I just found this thread. I haven't read through all of it (there's alot!) but I get the main idea.

 

I don't want to add too much, considering I don't have all the facts, but I would like to say that I hope you are staying strong through this. Whether other people think you are right, or wrong, you are the only one that has to live with your decisions. If you feel this isn't something you can live with, then I stand by you in your decision to break up with him.

 

I do ask, though, to take a little time and try to understand what exactly it is that you are feeling and whether breaking up is the best choice. Whatever you decide to do, I truly wish you the best and hope you stay strong!!

[zengirl]

You could feel free to tell him you're too busy to Skype. I think that's an acceptable LWL.

 

There has been no growth in this relationship because I found out that I can't trust him and I have struggled with it for a long time. It's not paranoia, I saw it in black and white and he straight up admitted to it (after my questioning).

 

Then why didn't you break up with him? Why be in a relationship with someone you cannot trust? And why use completely innocuous things later to justify your not trusting him for the larger issues you've supposedly "forgiven"?

 

I'm not saying the guy is great --- I'm saying you constantly mix up real screw ups with non-screw ups (not Skyping constantly from vacation in Europe) so it's impossible to assess. . . I mean, you seem to treat a missed Skype session with the same urgency as him wanting a break, based on the way you get when you write. You fixate on all the wrong things, and that's part of my point.

 

And when I said growth: I meant growth in YOU, not growth in the relationship. With how you end it, you still have a chance to grow, but the fact that you deleted his # the other day (a symptom of a persistent habit of yours) shows how little growth you've seen personally. Which is a shame. Flawed guy or no, this relationship could've been a chance for much more growth from you, which would've served you better.

 

Why did I stay with him? Good question. I couldn't trust myself to make the right decision, I kept making excuses for him in my mind. I thought that I could get over it in time but I have since realized that I can't. I tend to be too idealistic so I often thought "Perhaps I am thinking too much and nobody is perfect".

 

I don't think you're too idealistic. I think, it's as I said, you fixate on bizarre things sometimes. And you confuse thinking with feeling with knowing, all in one big anxiety fest. I'm sure it's frustrating and exhausting. (It's frustrating and exhausting to read, ES. Living it must be worse.) But my point is that brushing it all aside as, "This guy is just wrong for me," is missing the point, particularly of the topic of this thread. Had I been here when your guy wanted a 'break' (I am on and off LS as life allows), I probably would've said, "Never get back together with anyone who wants a break." So I'm not saying this guy is above reproach. I'm saying using things that were genuinely objectionable from the past to make things that are not really objectionable in the future "bad signs" = faulty logic.

 

Again, my point has never been, "Don't break up with him!" It's been, "Get YOUR house in order."

 

And I never called you crazy. Anxious? Yes. And avoiding growth? Absolutely. But I don't think you can find a post by me calling you "bat**** insane" and I don't think that. I do think playing the blame game with him allows you to escape responsibility for your own actions.

[Star Gazer]

There has been no growth in this relationship because I found out that I can't trust him and I have struggled with it for a long time. It's not paranoia, I saw it in black and white and he straight up admitted to it (after my questioning).

 

Before I knew what was happening exactly, just the fact that he asked for a break after 2 months was weird. I had this little voice in my head tell me over and over again, no matter what loving thing he did or said "but he asked for a break". This lead to snooping and what I found left me even more uneasy. Why did I stay with him? Good question. I couldn't trust myself to make the right decision, I kept making excuses for him in my mind. I thought that I could get over it in time but I have since realized that I can't. I tend to be too idealistic so I often thought "Perhaps I am thinking too much and nobody is perfect".

 

Another thing is that when I initially asked him on why he wanted a break and told him that his reasons just don't ring true - he said "Are you trusting your intuition again? You are a negative and pessimistic person so you are assuming the worst. I can tell you right now that you are completely wrong". As it turns it, it really was the "worst".

Now, if I have behaved this way and the 2 month thing never happened, I would agree with all of you that think that I am bat**** insane. But this way, I feel like even most emotionally healthy women would have trouble trusting him. My only mistake really is not ending it sooner.

So yeah, I am surely not going to look back at this relationship and think one day "Wow, I let this great guy go because I had serious issues".

 

This is all new.

 

You snooped, but said you didn't find anything to be concerned about, that all you found was stuff about how in love with you he is, and exchanging compliments with his friends over you. What else did you find that's so terrible?

 

Not being sure about where a relationship is headed at 2 months is reasonable. So I'm not sure what you've found that you've been hiding from us that is "the worst"??

 

I'm not saying this guy is peachy, but not ending it sooner is NOT the only mistake you made.

[Star Gazer]

Again, my point has never been, "Don't break up with him!" It's been, "Get YOUR house in order."

 

And I never called you crazy. Anxious? Yes. And avoiding growth? Absolutely. But I don't think you can find a post by me calling you "bat**** insane" and I don't think that. I do think playing the blame game with him allows you to escape responsibility for your own actions.

 

Along with everything else you've said in this thread, ZG... Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!

[Nexus One]

I think this thread is also a classroom example of that women regularly use emotional arguments to come to a conclusion rather than just rational arguments. For guys that's soooo hard to understand, men very very rarely use emotional arguments to come to a conclusion. This is a huge reason why men and women don't always mesh that well, it's a major cause of many arguments between partners, I'm sure of that.

 

If a woman tells a guy that she has come to a certain conclusion, yet provides an emotional argument to support her conclusion, then most likely the guy will see that as an irrational argument and hence in his eyes as an invalid argument and hence in his eyes he'll see her conclusion as incorrect and if the woman then stands by her conclusion then the guy will most likely think she's (somewhat) crazy. On this point men tend to not understand women, but in my opinion women are also partly to blame for that because getting an explanation from them that explains how they exactly structured their arguments to come to a certain conclusion is like pulling her teeth.

 

I've very rarely witnessed a woman give a thorough structured explanation of how she comes to certain seemingly irrational conclusions, but the very few times that I have witnessed it were enough for me to know that women do indeed have a coherently structured reasoning for their conclusions, albeit they often inject emotional arguments to build up that structure of reasoning.

 

I know I sound like Spock right now, but that's such a fundamental difference between men and women that it needs to be explained like that, otherwise one of either genders will not get it.

 

I think it's why many women are drawn to gay men as friends, because gay men get that or sometimes women are drawn to guys they don't feel physically attracted to, but they do feel emotionally attracted to them, because those guys seem to understand their emotional reasoning while the guys they're physically attracted to might not. Players also tend to understand this and that is partly why they have so much success with women, but they exploit it for their very own purposes.

 

One tends to be a lot more tolerant for a person and their opinion when you understand their reasoning behind it.

 

While perhaps not entirely relevant to the thread I think it was relevant enough to mention this. Some might think this is an obvious difference between men and women, that doesn't mean we always recognize it and realize it at the exact moment when there's an issue between a man and a woman.

[Hot Chick]

Nah....he won't fly home over another one of her episodes. I think both of them know that this isn't going to end up being for the long term. He isn't going to be dumb enough to ruin a life-changing trip over this.

He probably is actually going to dump HER over Skype tomorrow. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

Oh, again?

 

 

ES ends it over Skype or in a text message.

 

Bf is shocked, flies back the next day.

 

 

They have lots of drama. 12 hours of psycho terror come to mind.

 

Then....they are back together, and he learned his lesson: Never deprive ES of the constant attention she needs.

 

Yay.

 

Though maybe she still cheats on him with the hot coffee guy.

[Eternal Sunshine]

zengirl,

 

No, you never called me insane. I do respect your opinion (even though I don't always agree with you) and your input in this thread has been valuable. I don't feel as bashed over the head as I do with other posters.

 

You are right - the overwhelming anxiety that I feel when I start dating anyone is not normal. But, my pattern in the past (pre-LS) has been to slowly relax few months in if there are no major red flags. You haven't seen evidence of this because I didn't really date anyone for long enough in the last few years (until this guy).

 

My plan is to take a couple of months (maybe more) break from dating. Not because I really need much time to get over this break-up - I am pretty much over it already. Just that at present, I can't take anymore anxiety that dating someone new would generate. I even think that I got so severely ill with a simple bacteria - points out that the anxiety/stress of what has been happening has taken a toll on my body. As soon as I remove "dating" component from my life, everything else magically falls into place. I function well in just about any other area.

 

P.S. I will say that I am having an insanely busy week and that I have no time to Skype.

[denise_xo]

I think this thread is also a classroom example of that women regularly use emotional arguments to come to a conclusion rather than just rational arguments. For guys that's soooo hard to understand, men very very rarely use emotional arguments to come to a conclusion. This is a huge reason why men and women don't always mesh that well, it's a major cause of many arguments between partners, I'm sure of that.

 

If a woman tells a guy that she has come to a certain conclusion, yet provides an emotional argument to support her conclusion, then most likely the guy will see that as an irrational argument and hence in his eyes as an invalid argument and hence in his eyes he'll see her conclusion as incorrect and if the woman then stands by her conclusion then the guy will most likely think she's (somewhat) crazy. On this point men tend to not understand women, but in my opinion women are also partly to blame for that because getting an explanation from them that explains how they exactly structured their arguments to come to a certain conclusion is like pulling her teeth.

 

I've very rarely witnessed a woman give a thorough structured explanation of how she comes to certain seemingly irrational conclusions, but the very few times that I have witnessed it were enough for me to know that women do indeed have a coherently structured reasoning for their conclusions, albeit they often inject emotional arguments to build up that structure of reasoning.

 

I know I sound like Spock right now, but that's such a fundamental difference between men and women that it needs to be explained like that, otherwise one of either genders will not get it.

 

I think it's why many women are drawn to gay men as friends, because gay men get that or sometimes women are drawn to guys they don't feel physically attracted to, but they do feel emotionally attracted to them, because those guys seem to understand their emotional reasoning while the guys they're physically attracted to might not. Players also tend to understand this and that is partly why they have so much success with women, but they exploit it for their very own purposes.

 

One tends to be a lot more tolerant for a person and their opinion when you understand their reasoning behind it.

 

While perhaps not entirely relevant to the thread I think it was relevant enough to mention this. Some might think this is an obvious difference between men and women, that doesn't mean we always recognize it and realize it at the exact moment when there's an issue between a man and a woman.

 

This sounds like complete and total bullcrap to me. Firstly, it doesn't chime at all with my experience - I hear men talk totally irrationally and emotionally all the time. Secondly, the kind of separation that you outline between emotion and rationality is partially a fiction built up by Western thinking that has historically relegated 'emotional' to something 'inferior' and 'female'. Brain research (see e.g. the work of Antonio Damasio) shows that emotion is actually very intricately linked with the execution of so called rational decisions.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Nah....he won't fly home over another one of her episodes. I think both of them know that this isn't going to end up being for the long term. He isn't going to be dumb enough to ruin a life-changing trip over this.

He probably is actually going to dump HER over Skype tomorrow. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

Heh, I do think this is a real possibility. It makes me want to Skype tomorrow, I would much rather he do it.

 

I guess if this is his intention, he will insist on talking even if I cancel.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Nexus One - there are females like TBF who are very rational and logical. I have rarely seen her use an emotional argument.

[utterer of lies]

Nah....he won't fly home over another one of her episodes. I think both of them know that this isn't going to end up being for the long term. He isn't going to be dumb enough to ruin a life-changing trip over this.

He probably is actually going to dump HER over Skype tomorrow. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

He didn't end it after 12 hours of mental torture by her. Why now?

[lemonlegs]

Heh, I do think this is a real possibility. It makes me want to Skype tomorrow, I would much rather he do it.

 

I guess if this is his intention, he will insist on talking even if I cancel.

 

You WANT your boyfriend to break up with you? Seriously, you should do him a favour and do it so he can actually enjoy the remainder of trip.