Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[snug.bunny]

Just from my own observations, based on things you've written, both of you were equally deceitful with one another (you both just demonstrated it in different ways) and he just chose to end it, instead of carrying on with the charade. How he ended it, was pretty harsh and for that, I am sorry you had to endure that.

 

If there is something to take away from this experience, it is that you gave the relationship a shot, and you are a step closer to identifying things you will tolerate, and things that you won't. Certain characteristics to seek out, and letting the surface superficials, take a back seat and instead focusing on the entire package as a whole.

[zengirl]

Brilliant TBF. 100% spot on.

 

Even our mutual friends (that we have spent a LOT of time with) thought that he is crazy about me. Many have told me that they wish they would find a guy who is in love with them like that. He acted this perfect major love story, in words and MINOR actions. He insisted on taking 100s of pictures of us that are all over Facebook.

 

But every now and then, he would do something that would jolt me into thinking "Hang on, this doesn't gel with that picture he is presenting". For the longest time I thought that I am just being insecure and paranoid. But more and more negative evidence was emerging, until it became impossible to ignore. And then how he ended things - it's just further confirmation on who he truly is.

 

I don't know what makes the bad things he does any more his true self than the good things he does. That whole "true self" thing is kind of like how the "gut" of someone is always the part that was right.

 

At any rate, it's over; it was a brutal end, but you wanted it over anyway. I'm not sure it confirms he never meant any of the nice things he does etc. That's just the retroactive story that will be created in your head.

 

This doesn't mean he was a swell guy. But I think there's something to what snug.bunny said. And also you're doing exactly what I worried you would: retroactively re-writing.

 

If your mutual friends thought he was really in love with you, that further confirms what I thought might be possible: this guy was probably in love with you. Crap current actions or not, I don't think it was all some crazy deceitful act. If you wanted a romantic man, perhaps you found one. The guys who jilt girls are usually the most (overly) romantic ones. Romantic people tend to be like Marianne from Sense and Sensibility; they are ruled by their emotions and poor long-term lovers indeed (until they're given a bit of sense by near-dying, I guess? After all, she ends up with nice Colonel Brandon once she learns her lesson).

[Eternal Sunshine]

Zengirl, I will agree that there seems to be correlation between over the top romanticism and craziness.

[Mme. Chaucer]

ES, the man you got involved with is most definitely truly mentally ill ... or else you have been dishonest here.

 

Either way, I am sincerely sorry - even horrified, and truly hope that you will do whatever you need to do so that such situations never are a part of your future life.

 

 

I don't know what makes the bad things he does any more his true self than the good things he does. That whole "true self" thing is kind of like how the "gut" of someone is always the part that was right.

 

At any rate, it's over; it was a brutal end, but you wanted it over anyway. I'm not sure it confirms he never meant any of the nice things he does etc. That's just the retroactive story that will be created in your head.

 

That's what I think, too.

 

 

Also, this:

 

Just from my own observations, based on things you've written, both of you were equally deceitful with one another (you both just demonstrated it in different ways) and he just chose to end it, instead of carrying on with the charade. How he ended it, was pretty harsh and for that, I am sorry you had to endure that.

This doesn't mean he was a swell guy. But I think there's something to what snug.bunny said. And also you're doing exactly what I worried you would: retroactively re-writing.

 

Not to threadjack, but now I have a question for your most vocal supporter, TBF. Vocal and supportive when things go bad for you, that is.

 

TBF:

 

Why are you SILENT during ES's threads where she waxes extremely romantical and happy about a guy - this one, for now? When she is ASKING OUTRIGHT for people to be happy and supportive of her in her relationship, rather than naysaying?

 

Why don't you offer her SUPPORT in her happy times?

 

Or, since you are so very "right" about your opinion of this guy being "shady" and bad in so many ways ...

 

WHY did you choose to remain silent about THAT rather than trying to alert her and save her from all of this pain?

 

I don't understand why you ONLY pipe in to back her up in trashing a guy, while claiming that you always knew that he was a baddie. And also admonishing every person who is involved in her threads whose approach to her & her situation does not concur with yours - which I find ridiculously inappropriate.

 

Do you somehow revel in it when she is miserable and you can be the "hero" without having to make any real efforts, besides agreeing with her when she's badmouthing a guy?

 

You rarely give any hints that you are even familiar with the ongoing history that's here.

 

You did the exact same thing with her old friend, SP/ N_S / TC.

 

Is it all part of another sociological experiment of yours?

[Kamille]

ES, I'm really sorry for what happened. I know I was the first to defend him, but I do think Zengirl is onto something though. If a guy acts so erratically that you spend most of your time wondering which one of you is crazy, you're probably better off without him. Relationships are so much better without drama.

[threebyfate]

Brilliant TBF. 100% spot on.

 

Even our mutual friends (that we have spent a LOT of time with) thought that he is crazy about me. Many have told me that they wish they would find a guy who is in love with them like that. He acted this perfect major love story, in words and MINOR actions. He insisted on taking 100s of pictures of us that are all over Facebook.

 

But every now and then, he would do something that would jolt me into thinking "Hang on, this doesn't gel with that picture he is presenting". For the longest time I thought that I am just being insecure and paranoid. But more and more negative evidence was emerging, until it became impossible to ignore. And then how he ended things - it's just further confirmation on who he truly is.

While I've said this a billion times on LS, this is a prime example of why words and actions have to mesh. If they don't, there's usually a reason you don't want to know about but need to know about.

[Star Gazer]

For those who are having difficulty following along or are getting lost or fixated on detail, here's how I see this relationship.

 

I'm having absolutely no trouble following along, nor am I lost or fixated on detail. How YOU summarize this relationship is not how the majority of people see it. How you see it is not gospel.

 

Yet again, you refuse to acknowledge her role in any of this. Such a shame.

[vsmini]

I'm having absolutely no trouble following along, nor am I lost or fixated on detail. How YOU summarize this relationship is not how the majority of people see it. How you see it is not gospel.

 

Yet again, you refuse to acknowledge her role in any of this. Such a shame.

 

I was about to say the same thing. I think TBF is more in denial about ES's issues and roles in this relationship than ES herself.

[Star Gazer]

I was about to say the same thing. I think TBF is more in denial about ES's issues and roles in this relationship than ES herself.

 

It's time for ES to cut the puppet strings. ES's life shouldn't be treated like a social experiment for one to entertain herself with, to see how much power she yields.

[LittleTiger]

Not that it matters to the outcome, but ES how did that last Skype conversation you requested go?

 

I'm really sorry ES but this is where you start to lose all credibility with me.

 

If everything you say is gospel truth then I am very sorry for you. If none of what you say is true, then I am even more sorry for you.

 

It's just that, when enormous gaping holes start to appear in the narrative, and you seem to ignore requests to fill them, it makes me wonder if you, yourself, can distinguish fact from fiction, never mind the rest of us.

 

Whatever has being going on in reality, since this relationship is now apparently over for good, I do hope that you will start to focus on making yourself emotionally strong and healthy.

 

You really need to be in a much healthier mental state before embarking on another quest for true love. If you aren't, you will just turn things full circle and be back on here with another very similar story in the not too distant future.

[Professor X]

I'm really sorry ES but this is where you start to lose all credibility with me.

 

If everything you say is gospel truth then I am very sorry for you. If none of what you say is true, then I am even more sorry for you.

 

It's just that, when enormous gaping holes start to appear in the narrative, and you seem to ignore requests to fill them, it makes me wonder if you, yourself, can distinguish fact from fiction, never mind the rest of us.

 

Whatever has being going on in reality, since this relationship is now apparently over for good, I do hope that you will start to focus on making yourself emotionally strong and healthy.

 

You really need to be in a much healthier mental state before embarking on another quest for true love. If you aren't, you will just turn things full circle and be back on here with another very similar story in the not too distant future.

 

The sad truth is, she will never go seek professional help, she will just keep making excuses as to why it will not work, and therefor, all her future relationships, just her past ones, will be doomed to fail.

 

She will probably reach her late 40s before waking up, because humans tend to get their "wake up" call to late, way to late - if at all.

 

Truth be told, she's quite similar to one goal: she never listens to those who confront her but rather agree and go along with those who trigger her unstable side.

 

one goal: should I buy x a card?

Everyone says no but one - than he quotes that 1 individual and asks him what size of card....

 

ES: BF lack of contact is getting to me

Everyone: 3h a day?!?!? it's to much; He's fine; He's on a vacation!; etc etc..

One person: He's selfish!

ES: quotes that person and replies: "Yes! I knew it!"

[threebyfate]

It's time for ES to cut the puppet strings. ES's life shouldn't be treated like a social experiment for one to entertain herself with, to see how much power she yields.

Quite frankly, this is beyond paranoid and bizarre. Really.

[torn_curtain]

If you wanted a romantic man, perhaps you found one. The guys who jilt girls are usually the most (overly) romantic ones. Romantic people tend to be like Marianne from Sense and Sensibility; they are ruled by their emotions and poor long-term lovers indeed (until they're given a bit of sense by near-dying, I guess? After all, she ends up with nice Colonel Brandon once she learns her lesson).

You actually make a good point about romantic men. This has been my observation of overly romantic types as well. What is the phrase-- the candle that burns too bright goes out fast? Or something along those lines. I wonder if Eternal would do better with a guy who was more cerebral and less heart driven.

 

And I actually don't see a view of this guy being potentially deceitful in a planned way. If anything, he seems overly romantic---as in prone to romantic whims. Romantic/passionate and dedicated/reliable are usually traits that are at odds IME.

No it wasn't planned but he was still deceitful, habitually so. The impression I get is of a shapeshifter who is not only labile in his emotions but also extremely two-faced in order to hedge his bets and avoid confrontation. In sum I'd say his behavior during the relationship was some combination of flimsy unstable emotions and downright deception when he had doubts but couldn't assert them. We know on at least three occasions he deliberately misled her--at the two month mark, then when he had his boys night out, and the last being when he met up with this woman and failed to immediately call things off. He strung the OP on for a week without telling her about his new "love". If my memory is correct that three hour skype session must have happened after he already met this other woman since he says he met her a week ago. It seems fair to assume that he pheated on her before sending her the break up text. He did say they were serious already. Then there's the keys bit which is downright sociopathic.

 

Just an all around slime ball.

 

Should she dismiss all of the nice things he said in retrospect? The problem is who knows what is true with somebody who is crazy and a proven liar. Probably like most deceitful people his words were some amalgamation of the truth and a whole lot of crapola. I don't think he intentionally deceived her in order to hurt her--although his sociopathic turn at the end does give me some pause--but he lied when he needed to for the reason most people do because it was the path of least resistance to meet his selfish needs.

[A O]

The problem is who knows what is true with somebody who is crazy and a proven liar.

Tell us TC - what do you want for ES and how do you propose she achieve this?

 

 

.

[Star Gazer]

You actually make a good point about romantic men. This has been my observation of overly romantic types as well. What is the phrase-- the candle that burns too bright goes out fast? .

 

Aren't you "in a relationship" with a romantic man and made declarations of love (romantic!) for someone whom you've never met?

[torn_curtain]

Tell us TC - what do you want for ES and how do you propose she achieve this?

 

 

.

 

I actually agree that therapy would do her good. But right now I imagine she's in the midst of recovering from this awful blow on top of being physically sick.

 

So my advice to her would be to take some time off and recover from this--get support from friends and family if she feels like she's being battered on here. Then once she's feeling sober again I' might take a relationship break and sort out some of her issues.

 

I would also urge her to trust her gut in the future if a guy's words and actions aren't aligning and just end things without looking back. If there's anything good to come out of this it's that at least she knows her instincts were spot on.

[torn_curtain]

Aren't you "in a relationship" with a romantic man and made declarations of love (romantic!) for someone whom you've never met?

 

Yes and I have some growing doubts about him for that reason. But that's off topic.

[A O]

I actually agree that therapy would do her good. But right now I imagine she's in the midst of recovering from this awful blow on top of being physically sick. So my advice to her would be to take some time off and recover from this--get support from friends and family if she feels like she's being battered on here. Then once she's feeling sober again I' might take a relationship break and sort out some of her issues. I would also urge her to trust her gut in the future if a guy's words and actions aren't aligning and just end things without looking back. If there's anything good to come out of this it's that at least she knows her instincts were spot on.

That's all well and good (if not debatable) but I'm interested in knowing what you actually want for her in the long term and proposals, ideas from you as to how she actually gets there.

 

What do you want for ES?

 

 

.

[Ms. Joolie]

Mind boggling. I still can't believe it. No guy in his right mind would leave his keys with one girlfriend but then be in Europe for two weeks and pick up another woman to take home. AND ask his now ex-GF to pick them up??

 

In my confusion, I went back to read more about how this relationship has progressed month to month by reading ES's past threads... so let's have a review!

 

Thread titles by ES in bold. ES's words in quotes.

 

3/12/11 Met this guy…but he tried to pick up my friend first

Calls him “terribly picky and judgmental”

“He is definitely not a player”

He cancelled a date because of his sore throat.

3/17 He asked ES to be his GF

 

3/18/11 Sense of stability vs sense of instability

Claims her “sense of stability” with new BF

 

3/23/11 Being cautious

No sex yet with BF

 

4/9/11 Is this proof that he is not all in??

Talks about his upcoming trip to Europe. Asked about them each having a “hall pass”

 

4/12/11 OMFG he thinks I said “I Love You”

 

4/21/11 I initiate seeing each other most of the time

Mentions she usually plans the dates out in advance, but “other than that, he initiates most of the contact”

 

4/23/11 boring nights w/ BF… normal?

“This has always been my problem”

 

5/3/11 This is kind of bothering me… seriously L

“I can tell that he is a good guy. His character and integrity are rock solid.”

 

5/22/11 What is the best strategy when your partner is being distant in a relationship?

“My boyfriend has a tendency to pull back a bit and be distant every now and again.”

 

5/29/11 Contact frequency in a relationship

“He has a pattern of being hot/cold...and that's a problem for me. (he also admitted to hot/cold thing so I am not just imagining it).

In our long talk, he told me few of the things that bother him (that I never called and that I never invited him to my place).”

 

6/6 Nearly 4 months update

After talking, he now contacts ES “every hour”

Spent night for first time at ES’s place now

ES finally has initiated one phone call

 

6/19 He LOVES me!

 

6/25 He lied to me

 

 

This relationship did NOT start off strong at all and right as they finally decided mutually that, yes, they DID *love* each other (about 6/19) then things started to be terribly off again.

 

So my best guess is this: ES had her hot chocolate guy and seriously considered accepting this flirtation, after weighing matters in her relationship. She was also open to going out with other men.

 

Meanwhile, her now ex-BF was going through the same thing. Surely he considered the relationship. Then he made his choice. It's unfortunate but things were just never strong, for either of them.

[torn_curtain]

That's all well and good (if not debatable) but I'm interested in knowing what you actually want for her in the long term and proposals, ideas from you as to how she actually gets there.

 

What do you want for ES?

 

.

 

I'm not sure how this is different from what I already answered but I think therapy would be the best approach for her as I don't think a forum like this can adequately address her issues because posters aren't professionals and egos get inevitably wrapped up in responses.

 

What do I want for her? I want what I would hope most people to achieve in their lives--happiness and peace of mind.

[A O]

I'm not sure how this is different from what I already answered but I think therapy would be the best approach for her as I don't think a forum like this can adequately address her issues because posters aren't professionals and egos get inevitably wrapped up in responses.

Your earlier answer is short-term and deals with the situation at hand. Short-term solutions have their place, but when the problem is on-going, and this situation is yet another unhappy, problematic experience to befall ES over many years now, then long-term solutions are what's needed.

 

What do I want for her? I want what I would hope most people to achieve in their lives--happiness and peace of mind.

Let me rephrase - what do you want for ES relationships wise? And ofcourse, how do you propose to get there?

 

I ask these questions because among other things, they put the focus more on ES's needs than whatever point posters here care to talk about.

 

If we want to prevent this type of situation occurring again then we need to know where we're going. Once we plot a course, we start asking the necessary questions as to how to get there.

 

 

.

[Star Gazer]

Mind boggling. I still can't believe it. No guy in his right mind would leave his keys with one girlfriend but then be in Europe for two weeks and pick up another woman to take home. AND ask his now ex-GF to pick them up??

 

In my confusion, I went back to read more about how this relationship has progressed month to month by reading ES's past threads... so let's have a review!

 

Thread titles by ES in bold. ES's words in quotes.

 

3/12/11 Met this guy…but he tried to pick up my friend first

Calls him “terribly picky and judgmental”

“He is definitely not a player”

He cancelled a date because of his sore throat.

3/17 He asked ES to be his GF

 

3/18/11 Sense of stability vs sense of instability

Claims her “sense of stability” with new BF

 

3/23/11 Being cautious

No sex yet with BF

 

4/9/11 Is this proof that he is not all in??

Talks about his upcoming trip to Europe. Asked about them each having a “hall pass”

 

4/12/11 OMFG he thinks I said “I Love You”

 

4/21/11 I initiate seeing each other most of the time

Mentions she usually plans the dates out in advance, but “other than that, he initiates most of the contact”

 

4/23/11 boring nights w/ BF… normal?

“This has always been my problem”

 

5/3/11 This is kind of bothering me… seriously L

“I can tell that he is a good guy. His character and integrity are rock solid.”

 

5/22/11 What is the best strategy when your partner is being distant in a relationship?

“My boyfriend has a tendency to pull back a bit and be distant every now and again.”

 

5/29/11 Contact frequency in a relationship

“He has a pattern of being hot/cold...and that's a problem for me. (he also admitted to hot/cold thing so I am not just imagining it).

In our long talk, he told me few of the things that bother him (that I never called and that I never invited him to my place).”

 

6/6 Nearly 4 months update

After talking, he now contacts ES “every hour”

Spent night for first time at ES’s place now

ES finally has initiated one phone call

 

6/19 He LOVES me!

 

6/25 He lied to me

 

 

This relationship did NOT start off strong at all and right as they finally decided mutually that, yes, they DID *love* each other (about 6/19) then things started to be terribly off again.

 

So my best guess is this: ES had her hot chocolate guy and seriously considered accepting this flirtation, after weighing matters in her relationship. She was also open to going out with other men.

 

Meanwhile, her now ex-BF was going through the same thing. Surely he considered the relationship. Then he made his choice. It's unfortunate but things were just never strong, for either of them.

 

Don't forget that in the first 1-2 months when he was being cautious and wasn't quite sure if a relationship with ES was what she wanted, she was still upset about the guy she offered NSA sex to (while dating this BF, but pre-exclusivity). She also broke up with him TWICE ("He's rock solid," "Oh wait, no he's not, I can't take it," "Actually, I made him cry so I took him back") before this final ending when he broke up with her.

[Star Gazer]

Yes and I have some growing doubts about him for that reason. But that's off topic.

 

If the comments you're making bashing on her now-exBF would apply just as equally to you in your current relationship, I believe it deserves mention.

 

Carry on.

[Imajerk17]

I was about to say the same thing. I think TBF is more in denial about ES's issues and roles in this relationship than ES herself.

 

I agree. I think threebyfate's sticking up for ES all the time is actually creepy.

[Imajerk17]

Don't forget that in the first 1-2 months when he was being cautious and wasn't quite sure if a relationship with ES was what she wanted, she was still upset about the guy she offered NSA sex to (while dating this BF, but pre-exclusivity). She also broke up with him TWICE ("He's rock solid," "Oh wait, no he's not, I can't take it," "Actually, I made him cry so I took him back") before this final ending when he broke up with her.

 

Both ES and her ex have similar levels of maturity. Although (to ES's credit) I think she would have handled breaking up with more kindness than he did.