Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[Star Gazer]

Wrong. ES does do her own thing. Had she listened to me prior, she would have ditched him sooner.

 

She did! She broke up with him TWICE! Don't you remember?

 

Star, you create these conspiracy theories out of thin air. Really.

 

I didn't come up with this theory, actually. But I do believe it to be true. You speak, she acts.

 

She cannot act without direction. She can't even decide if something bothers her without direction.

[threebyfate]

She did! She broke up with him TWICE! Don't you remember?

On her own cognizance. I told her to break up at different times and she didn't listen. Which is fine with me.

 

I didn't come up with this theory, actually. But I do believe it to be true. You speak, she acts.

 

She cannot act without direction. She can't even decide if something bothers her without direction.

You're making this all up. This isn't the first, nor will it be the last time you've fabricated something about me where it's gotten beyond creepy. Really.

[A O]

AO, I want her to be happy, the way that makes sense to her. Beyond that, your questions are moot. Even a psychiatric specialist wouldn't touch your questions with a ten foot pole and if they did offer this up, they should have their licenses revoked.

First off, we're not shrinks so we can ask any questions we want. Second, your way of dealing with things simply hasn't worked so a fresh approach is needed. Finally, what makes sense to her is akin to asking an alcoholic whether alcohol makes sense to them.

 

She's an addict. She's addicted to drama. This drama affects her ability to maintain healthy relationships. This in turn makes her unhappy.

 

Something has to change!

 

This is her learning curve and her own life. ES has to decide for herself where she wants to go. She and I are different people so I cannot, should not and will not try to control her actions.

You spend a great amount of time molly coddling her. You spend a lot of time enabling her. You often like to control the input she receives. All these actions impede on her ability to learn and grow.

 

Things need to change. We need to know where we're going because where we are and where we have been simply isn't cutting the mustard!

 

 

.

Edited July 28, 2011 by A O

[Star Gazer]

You're making this all up. This isn't the first, nor will it be the last time you've fabricated something about me where it's gotten beyond creepy. Really.

 

Ha! I have fabricated NOTHING, EVER, on LS.

 

There are many people who have said the same exact thing about your "interesting" level of apparent control over ES and the manner in which you participate in her threads. A few have alluded to it in this very thread.

 

I know it's uncomfortable when people see what's really going on, but unfortunately, you're going to have to get used to it.

[bittersweet memories]

Apparently ES cannot think or take action on her own without your summaries. But the rest of us really don't need them. Perhaps your one-on-one directed-at-one-poster conversations can take place, well, in private, as directed by the guidelines.

 

 

Wow SG! Why do ES bug you so much? Put her on ignore. Leave her alone. Go look for someone else to obsess over. GEEZ!!

[Star Gazer]

Wow SG! Why do ES bug you so much? Put her on ignore. Leave her alone. Go look for someone else to obsess over. GEEZ!!

 

Nah, the puppet show is fascinating and I'm learning a LOT about human nature, to my benefit.

[Star Gazer]

There are many people who have said the same exact thing about your "interesting" level of apparent control over ES and the manner in which you participate in her threads. A few have alluded to it in this very thread.

 

ETA:

 

An example:

 

You spend a great amount of time molly coddling her. You spend a lot of time enabling her. You often like to control the input she receives. All these actions impede on her ability to learn and grow.

[threebyfate]

First off, we're not shrinks so we can ask any questions we want. Second, your way of dealing with things simply hasn't worked so a fresh approach is needed. Finally, what makes sense to her is akin to asking an alcoholic whether alcohol makes sense to them.

 

She's an addict. She's addicted to drama. This drama affects her ability to maintain healthy relationships. This in turn makes her unhappy.

 

Something has to change!

Ah yes, now here comes the blame fest which is exactly what yourself and many members have done to her. Pinned all the blame on one person where the mob has done nothing and said nothing so you're responsible for nothing. Spin away AO but all the evidence is in her threads through thousands of posts which include yours and everyone else's.

 

You spend a great amount of time molly coddling her. You spend a lot of time enabling her. You often like to control the input she receives. All these actions impede on her ability to learn and grow.

 

Things need to change. We need to know where we're going because where we are and where we have been simply isn't cutting the mustard!

 

 

.

I have stepped in when people abuse her. But if there's any attempted controlling of her being done, it's all the battering she's receiving for not allowing others to control her.

[threebyfate]

Ha! I have fabricated NOTHING, EVER, on LS.

 

There are many people who have said the same exact thing about your "interesting" level of apparent control over ES and the manner in which you participate in her threads. A few have alluded to it in this very thread.

 

I know it's uncomfortable when people see what's really going on, but unfortunately, you're going to have to get used to it.

You have fabricated tons, all the time on LS. Really.

[Star Gazer]

You have fabricated tons, all the time on LS. Really.

 

And here is your attempt to "discredit" me. All because I disagree with you.

 

Please, enlighten allllll of us to the "tons" of things I have fabricated "all the time" on LS. Actually, name one. Just one.

[Star Gazer]

Ah yes, now here comes the blame fest which is exactly what yourself and many members have done to her. Pinned all the blame on one person where the mob has done nothing and said nothing so you're responsible for nothing.

 

:lmao::lmao:

 

YOU have pinned all the blame on one person: her now-exBF!

 

Goodness gracious, this is just crazy now!

[threebyfate]

It's time for ES to cut the puppet strings. ES's life shouldn't be treated like a social experiment for one to entertain herself with, to see how much power she yields.

 

Apparently ES cannot think or take action on her own without your summaries. But the rest of us really don't need them. Perhaps your one-on-one directed-at-one-poster conversations can take place, well, in private, as directed by the guidelines.

 

And here is your attempt to "discredit" me. All because I disagree with you.

 

Please, enlighten allllll of us to the "tons" of things I have fabricated "all the time" on LS. Actually, name one. Just one.

I didn't have to go far to find your fabrications. They're within this thread and easy to locate.

 

This will be the last time I respond to you in this thread SG. It's an exercise in futility to reason with you.

[A O]

Ah yes, now here comes the blame fest which is exactly what yourself and many members have done to her. Pinned all the blame on one person where the mob has done nothing and said nothing so you're responsible for nothing. Spin away AO but all the evidence is in her threads through thousands of posts which include yours and everyone else's.

None of this explains what is constantly happening to ES. None of this solves what is constantly befalling ES. The same thing(s) consistently happens to ES. End result is on-going unhappiness. Things must change.

 

What can we do. What changes can we make. Where should we go!

 

I have stepped in when people abuse her. But if there's any attempted controlling of her being done, it's all the battering she's receiving for not allowing others to control her.

You step in as much for yourself as you do for her.

 

.

[Star Gazer]

I didn't have to go far to find your fabrications. They're within this thread and easy to locate.

 

So, there are none, is what you're saying. Glad we cleared that up.

 

Also, thanks for responding so promptly. I need to go get a quick spray tan for my vacation, but wanted to be here to defend myself against inaccuracies, or, as you'd call them, "fabrications." Much appreciated.

[OliveOyl]

None of this explains what is constantly happening to ES. None of this solves what is constantly befalling ES. The same thing(s) consistently happens to ES. End result is on-going unhappiness. Things must change.

Nothing has to change. Only ES can decide if she wants to change. There's no "must" about it.

 

What can we do. What changes can we make. Where should we go!

 

Nothing. Nothing, and nowhere.

 

It's not up to anyone else but ES. Nobody else can control her. We can watch, on the distant pixelated sidelines, we can make comments, suggestions, we can groan, cheer, laugh, moan, shake our head, whatever. But in the end, it's not our problem.

Edited July 28, 2011 by OliveOyl

[threebyfate]

None of this explains what is constantly happening to ES. None of this solves what is constantly befalling ES. The same thing(s) consistently happens to ES. End result is on-going unhappiness. Things must change.

 

What can we do. What changes can we make. Where should we go!

What we can do is to offer our advice and if she decides not to take it, allow her to proceed with her life as she wants.

 

You step in as much for yourself as you do for her.

 

.

Wrong. Had I been acting on my own behalf, it would be to my benefit to allow the abuse to go on, rather than turning it on me.

[zengirl]

I wonder if Eternal would do better with a guy who was more cerebral and less heart driven.

 

Heart-driven and romantic are not the same thing to me. Being sensible does not impede the heart IME, nor is being romantic necessarily the opposite of cerebral. I think someone who had more compassion than passion would be better for her, but I don't think she's ready for such a man either.

 

No it wasn't planned but he was still deceitful, habitually so.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this (the habitually particularly). I think the fact that he came forward relatively quickly and completely clean is a show that he does not actually intend deceit. Deceit was a byproduct of his circumstances and one he sought to remedy quite quickly, and it sounds as though he was unprompted in his confession and NEEDED to confess it (thus meaning he felt guilty) and explain it. This coincides with a particularly romantic temperament and all the things ES both liked and dislike about this guy. As does his "love at first sight" with random girl. That's a very romantic thing; it's the thing romantic novels are made of. And while certainly not ideal, particularly since it seems like something physical happened (though we cannot know how much), I'm not sure it makes a bad person.

 

Leaving someone for someone else does not, to me, a bad person make, particularly if you aren't married. (And particularly if the other person was having doubts in the relationship; likely, they were both having doubts. While he couldn't know this, it does speak to the overall vibe.) Expecting ES to still pick him up from the airport, IMO, is worse. But breaking up with her because of his love-at-first-sight-ness is really just a romantic thing to do. I hate that type of romance, but it's a temperament thing really, more than a morality thing. He and ES were not married and if he wants to break up with her to be with someone else, that does not really make him a scumbag. And if he did cheat, he clearly didn't want to be a cheater or carry on any deceit.

 

I find it hard to imagine --- falling in love at first sight when already entangled with someone --- because I don't have a romantic temperament, but I'm not sure what the "good" course of action is, in order to get what the romantic heart wants. And I don't think his pursuing the other girl was really wrong. Whatever level of avoidance he demonstrated was, but he did step forward to actively be honest. Deceit is not, IMO, the issue.

 

Granted, I still think he's a crazy person. I just don't think he's hedging his bets. Someone who was would never tell ES before coming home. If he was hedging his bets, he wasn't very good at it.

 

Should she dismiss all of the nice things he said in retrospect? The problem is who knows what is true with somebody who is crazy and a proven liar.

 

I don't see many deliberate lies from him. I see a lot of confusion, a few kneejerk lies in the moment that are quickly corrected (in some case of his own accord, which is rare for someone to come out and admit such things really), and emotional instability. That doesn't change the good things he said and did, especially since we have objective observers who had the impression he loved ES. I'd bet he did. But he loved her as a romantic does, which means "in the moment." That's the romantic soul.

 

But people always re-write history like this. ES is not unique. It's not a habit I really understand, as it seems drastically unhealthy to re-write over the good stuff because of the bad. Most people are a mix of both.

 

This relationship did NOT start off strong at all and right as they finally decided mutually that, yes, they DID *love* each other (about 6/19) then things started to be terribly off again.

 

So my best guess is this: ES had her hot chocolate guy and seriously considered accepting this flirtation, after weighing matters in her relationship. She was also open to going out with other men.

 

Meanwhile, her now ex-BF was going through the same thing. Surely he considered the relationship. Then he made his choice. It's unfortunate but things were just never strong, for either of them.

 

That's what I think too. Only I think he's a bit nutty for wanting to bring home some girl he never met and saying it was love at first sight. But I'm not a romantic, so MMV on that.

 

If deleting his phone number from her phone and just refusing to respond to any contact is the kinder way, sure.

 

To be fair to ES, she looked to be ready for a more mature breakup. What she would've done is unclear, of course, but she was showing some improvement in this area.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I am not "blaming" ES if i want to hold her (just like anybody else, including myself) absolutely accountable for HER part in whatever situation she's posting about.

 

It's not a "mob" or "ganging up" if many people react to what ES posts. She posts a herculean amount, and I believe that much of it is to garner attention ... so it has to be controversial, or else people wouldn't pay attention. If she were not extremely hungry for all this attention (drama), she would not post stuff like her "temptation" thread, or the NSA sex conundrum, or telling how she constantly violated the privacy of the man she was "in love" with.

 

Of course everyone knows what the general reaction to such posts is going to be.

 

If you were shopping at Nordstrom and there was a completely naked woman sitting in the shoe department trying on Doc Martens, would you get up on your soapbox and shout down anybody who you caught looking at her? I think that is a valid comparison.

 

And, this "help" is really, really not doing ES any favors. The person who said that this "help" is akin to "helping" an alcoholic get booze, and telling the alcoholic that they don't have any problem with booze at all, is right on.

 

NO MATTER WHAT, all we can do about ANYTHING is to work on OURSELVES. Help ES to do that. We should ALL be helping one another to do that.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Woah. I just caught up on last few pages.

 

TBF doesn't control me. I never broke up with him when TBF suggested. In fact, the first time I broke up with him was before the first time TBF suggested I did. Plus, I took him back each time. Do you think TBF would suggest that?

 

I did my own thing, although I now wish I got rid of him a long time ago.

 

I have to admit, that every time I posted about a guy and about million posters signed up to tell me I am over-reacting and TBF posted that it's a flag - yes, it turned out to be a flag. She has been spot-on in pinpointing personality traits of the guys involved.

[Star Gazer]

Woah. I just caught up on last few pages.

 

TBF doesn't control me. I never broke up with him when TBF suggested. In fact, the first time I broke up with him was before the first time TBF suggested I did. Plus, I took him back each time. Do you think TBF would suggest that?

 

I did my own thing, although I now wish I got rid of him a long time ago.

 

I have to admit, that every time I posted about a guy and about million posters signed up to tell me I am over-reacting and TBF posted that it's a flag - yes, it turned out to be a flag. She has been spot-on in pinpointing personality traits of the guys involved.

 

Your characterization of everyone saying you're overreacting is off.

 

Everyone said, "Look at what YOU are doing TOO."

 

Both you and TBF refuse to acknowledge your part in any of this drama. Instead, history will be written the way you want it. 'Tis the way of the ES.

[A O]

Nothing has to change. Only ES can decide if she wants to change. There's no "must" about it.

If you’re happy with how things are working out for ES then ignore my advice. If ES is living the sort of relationship life you, yourself live or would aspire to, then again, ignore my advice. If, however, you want something different for her, maybe something better then change needs to occur.

 

And that change – and I’m primarily talking about the advice she receives – that is what needs to change.

 

We cannot change ES and I realize it’s been very remiss of me to not emphasize this point often enough in my posts. What we need to change is ourselves and the advice that we give her. And we need to change this because it has simply not worked at all (assuming that a happy, respectful, meaningful relationship is the goal of you and most folk here).

 

 

 

What we can do is to offer our advice and if she decides not to take it, allow her to proceed with her life as she wants

See above

 

You step in as much for yourself as you do for her.

Wrong. Had I been acting on my own behalf, it would be to my benefit to allow the abuse to go on, rather than turning it on me.

The abuse gets to you, you get really annoyed, therefore it is as much to your benefit to deal to those posters as it is to ES's. Continually taking these posters to task is your way of dealing with this.

 

 

 

 

.

[OliveOyl]

If you’re happy with how things are working out for ES then ignore my advice. If ES is living the sort of relationship life you, yourself live or would aspire to, then again, ignore my advice. If, however, you want something different for her, maybe something better then change needs to occur.

 

And that change – and I’m primarily talking about the advice she receives – that is what needs to change.

 

We cannot change ES and I realize it’s been very remiss of me to not emphasize this point often enough in my posts. What we need to change is ourselves and the advice that we give her. And we need to change this because it has simply not worked at all (assuming that a happy, respectful, meaningful relationship is the goal of you and most folk here).

 

The abuse gets to you, you get really annoyed, therefore it is as much to your benefit to deal to those posters as it is to ES's. Continually taking these posters to task is your way of dealing with this.

Sure, I want people, including ES, to be happy. However, other people's happiness is not anything I can control. I can offer my personal insight and the absolute most I could hope for is it causes one person to see things from a slightly different viewpoint. But I'm detached from the outcome. And I really see no point in continually beating ES over the head with a 2 by 4, as it obviously doesn't help.

 

It bothers me when I see people reacting with what appears to be a complete lack of compassion, but I know my efforts to induce compassion will be about as effective as others' efforts to get ES to change. It's out of my hands. And it's not really my business how other people react.

[Eternal Sunshine]

He texted me this:

 

"I waited for you for 1 hour on Skype yesterday. I thought you wanted to talk...?"

 

Me: "I changed my mind, I am good. BTW I will give Y your keys. I will also get my stuff and return yours while you are away."

 

Him: "That's it? Don't you want more explanation? Aren't you upset?"

 

Me: "Nope. Losing someone like you is a blessing."

 

Him: "Don't you need closure?"

 

Me:"I beleive that closure somes from within and I have mine. Good luck with everything."

 

Him:"You are wishing me luck?"

 

....I stopped responding. What a f-ing jerk.

[A O]

Sure, I want people, including ES, to be happy. However, other people's happiness is not anything I can control.

It's not about control, its about influence and people like you have influence. You have influence over the decisions that ES makes. In her case, you allow her, you help her feel comfortable with the choices she makes thus the feelings and behavior that stems from them.

 

The trick is to workout (for yourself) whether she is making the right choices. If you believe that she is, if you believe that she's heading down the right path, that she's edging closer towards 'long-term happiness' then by all means carry on comforting her, carry on supporting these choices. If not, then you need to have a look at yourself and the role that you play, the influence that you exert and whether you're helping or hindering her towards the goal - relationship bliss and personal happiness.

 

And I really see no point in continually beating ES over the head with a 2 by 4, as it obviously doesn't help.

Agreed. There's little to be gained in directly addressing ES when discussing change. She is not in that mind space. That is why it's her supporters that I'm trying to influence, trying to change. Trying to get them to see that whatever support they've offered her over the years has not led to meaningful, long-term relationship bliss/happiness.

 

They have the power to influence ES. I just want them to use it for her long-term betterment. But again, that is not happening.

 

It bothers me when I see people reacting with what appears to be a complete lack of compassion, but I know my efforts to induce compassion will be about as effective as others' efforts to get ES to change.

Compassion has its place. But sooner (rather than later) we must look past it. We must look towards a future where moments that induce compassion become extremely rare, far less frequent than what has become the norm here.

 

 

.

[Cracker Jack]

That was pretty funny to read.