Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[torn_curtain]

Doesn't sound like it; Sounds more like he knows ES is torn on the inside (strangely enough - cause she wanted to break up with him before he did so!) and he's a bit worried cause she's known to be unstable.

 

He did, after all, come with a new chick, so I highly doubt he's going crazy

 

I am convinced that this place is full of trolls.

[torn_curtain]

Not sure I agree. There are posters here who have been especially vitriolic in their opinions. One or two seem to find it necessary to go out of their way to say things that are rude and hurtful... things they would never consider helpful if they were on the receiving end. These are forum bullies, who not only insist their pov is correct, but denigrate anyone who dares have an opposing view. And no, this is not you ZG.

 

Totally. People who don't see the undercurrent of vitriol need to open their eyes. I am actually shocked by some of the responses the OP has gotten even for the internet.

[torn_curtain]

This is a good observation. It sounds like your ex either did not understand his nature or tried to minimise it by asserting what he knows is the healthier reponse. As you point out, even though he may have known intellectually that kindness is what he should desire, the reality is that he was drawn to the intensity of drama.

 

FWIW, I think this is a common mistake for many people -- they think the intense highs and lows than come with a dramatic r/s indicate love. This blinds them to the fact that, at times, love can be pretty quiet!

 

People will often write a narrative about themselves in their heads that has little bearing on the truth. It's not that they are deliberately lying; they just do not see themselves. I believe you learn more about someone by reading between the lines and also observing their actions. The narrative may be a helpful guide to discovering deeper truths about them but it can also lead you astray if you take it purely at face value or assume it depicts the real essence of their lives. It's more a more useful source for subtext than anything. What I find helpful is to take the facts of what they tell you at face value but view the rest with a grain of salt. I guess there are people who would argue you can't even take the facts at face value but I'd prefer not to be that cynical unless someone gives me reason to be.

Edited July 28, 2011 by torn_curtain

[Professor X]

I am convinced that this place is full of trolls.

 

Yes, and ES is probably one of those.

 

And the reason people are hating on her is because, same as one goal, she comes here, whining, asking for advices, takes NONE and carries on with her whining afterwards.

 

The same cycle of the same problem over and over and over again.

 

Now, before you go on with something like "than don't respond" - well, guess what, she does it in an open forum and as such, I am free to write whatever I want, however I want to whoever I want.

 

P.S. When I first joined here I also responded to her kindly and gave her my opinion on matters but I quickly learned it was futile.

[Star Gazer]

The lack of self-awareness on your part....is painful.

few weeks of peace? you have to be kidding.

 

Let's not forget that she equates drama with passion. Yet again, she's just as responsible, but refuses to see it.

[Star Gazer]

Then you know what ES? How about you and TBF go and have a little tea party to yourselves? The two of you can bask in the glory of denial about your part in this disaster of a relationship. TBF can assure you (like a real friend) that you weren't overreacting and that it's always on the 'other guy' you're with.

 

So from now on listen to TBF - follow her advice, like you have been doing.

 

BTW - how is that working out for you? You have a barrage of excuses why everything is at the fault of someone else. Every once in a while you'll sprinkle in an "I know I'm f*cked up and have issues" but you don't really do anything about it - you seem to think just recognizing it is enough but your spoiled selfish butt doesn't seem to think you actually have to DO anything about it. Like you're some kind of GD exception - wake up. I think your string of relationships is a reminder that what you're doing is not working out. What sucks is that you'll probably just look back on this relationship and learn nothing from it because he dumped you in a crappy way (yes, it was crappy) and just blame ALL of it on him. You're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

 

Give me a break - you value what TBF has to say because it's the easy way out, a get out of jail free card, validation. No hard work is necessary to work on yourself when you listen to TBF.

 

((standing ovation))

[Mme. Chaucer]

ES -

 

Is there any possibility that your ex does NOT really have a new girlfriend, or maybe did not even actually want to break up with you, but had some kind of fit of pique (not blaming - it's all on him) - but possibly in response to hearing about your insecurities, etc.?

 

I can imagine a certain type of person responding to all of that with something like,

 

"Fine! YES! I have a new girlfriend, alright? I'm madly in love! I'm bringing her home! Pick us up at the airport! SO THERE!"

 

Not that it would make any difference (except maybe hurt your feelings less); I know you were already done with him and ready to dump without this ... grand finale.

[Chocolat]

Yes, and ES is probably one of those.

 

And the reason people are hating on her is because, same as one goal, she comes here, whining, asking for advices, takes NONE and carries on with her whining afterwards.

 

The same cycle of the same problem over and over and over again.

 

Now, before you go on with something like "than don't respond" - well, guess what, she does it in an open forum and as such, I am free to write whatever I want, however I want to whoever I want.

 

P.S. When I first joined here I also responded to her kindly and gave her my opinion on matters but I quickly learned it was futile.

 

What your argument posits is that those posters who are so certain that ES is mentally unhealthy and incapable of taking the advice she receives nonetheless believe it is ok to denigrate her because, hey, it's an open forum on the internet. In essence, she brings it on herself, so it's fair play.

 

It seems to me that if all those claiming that ES is in dire need of psychiatric help were truly so well-adjusted themselves, they'd be able to say their piece and move on. The need to name-call and ridicule would be absent.

[Professor X]

In essence, she brings it on herself, so it's fair play.

 

 

Of course she does, who else?

 

You know, an old guy I once served with once told me:

"When 1 person calls you crazy, you can joke with him.

When 2 people call you crazy, you can ignore them.

When 3 people call you crazy, you can yell at them.

When 4 people call you crazy, you can curse them and call them crazy back.

When 5 people call you crazy... Well, you better get yourself checked."

 

And the best part is, you got people from both genders questioning her behavior, telling her she's just wrong in the way she's thinking, so it's not like you got here "men from Mars women from Venus" issue.

[thatone]

People will often write a narrative about themselves in their heads that has little bearing on the truth. It's not that they are deliberately lying; they just do not see themselves. I believe you learn more about someone by reading between the lines and also observing their actions. The narrative may be a helpful guide to discovering deeper truths about them but it can also lead you astray if you take it purely at face value or assume it depicts the real essence of their lives. It's more a more useful source for subtext than anything. What I find helpful is to take the facts of what they tell you at face value but view the rest with a grain of salt. I guess there are people who would argue you can't even take the facts at face value but I'd prefer not to be that cynical unless someone gives me reason to be.

 

she doesn't care how cynical people are. she is a combination of attention starved and delusional.

 

she comes here for attention when she has made up her mind to sabotage one of her relationships, because she can't get attention from the man she's driving away anymore, it's really that simple.

 

it doesn't matter what anyone in these threads says, as long as they're all 10+ pages long she'll be content.

Edited July 28, 2011 by thatone

[Chocolat]

Of course she does, who else?

 

 

I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I have seen posts (and posters) here I have little respect for, as well as those who I think bring on many of their own troubles, but my way of dealing with them is to ignore them. If I can't say something helpful in a reasonably pleasant way, I don't say anything at all. I don't think that just because someone posts on a public forum gives me the right to harrass them.

 

There are posters in ES's threads who seem practically hysterical in their need to stalk her and "prove" their rightness by whatever means available. I don't count you in this group, fwiw. I find this behavior appalling and contrary to the mission of the site.

[Ms. Joolie]

I don't know how conscious ES is about how her behavior affected this outcome, nor do I know how willing she is to be responsible.

 

However, I strongly abhor the bashing she gets. This isn't a forum of friends or therapists ready to listen to and assist her, but I just wish people could have a little more tact in what they say and really consider with what intention and in what way they are posting their comments. Is it to help or to attack? Is it as a contribution or is it for a personal gain?

 

This is someone's life that they are sharing, and that deserves to be listened and answered with respect. Give as you wish to receive.

[BetheButterfly]

Mind boggling. I still can't believe it. No guy in his right mind would leave his keys with one girlfriend but then be in Europe for two weeks and pick up another woman to take home. AND ask his now ex-GF to pick them up??

 

Agreed... that seems very questionable. It's hard to think you're not lying, ES, with stuff like this, but if you aren't lying, then I'm sorry. I hope you see how unbelievable this sounds, especially to those of us who know men who would never in a million years do things like this.

 

In my confusion, I went back to read more about how this relationship has progressed month to month by reading ES's past threads... so let's have a review!

Wow you are very thorough!

 

Thread titles by ES in bold. ES's words in quotes.

 

3/12/11 Met this guy…but he tried to pick up my friend first

Calls him “terribly picky and judgmental”

“He is definitely not a player”

He cancelled a date because of his sore throat.

3/17 He asked ES to be his GF

 

3/18/11 Sense of stability vs sense of instability

Claims her “sense of stability” with new BF

 

3/23/11 Being cautious

No sex yet with BF

 

4/9/11 Is this proof that he is not all in??

Talks about his upcoming trip to Europe. Asked about them each having a “hall pass”

 

4/12/11 OMFG he thinks I said “I Love You”

 

4/21/11 I initiate seeing each other most of the time

Mentions she usually plans the dates out in advance, but “other than that, he initiates most of the contact”

 

4/23/11 boring nights w/ BF… normal?

“This has always been my problem”

 

5/3/11 This is kind of bothering me… seriously L

“I can tell that he is a good guy. His character and integrity are rock solid.”

 

5/22/11 What is the best strategy when your partner is being distant in a relationship?

“My boyfriend has a tendency to pull back a bit and be distant every now and again.”

 

5/29/11 Contact frequency in a relationship

“He has a pattern of being hot/cold...and that's a problem for me. (he also admitted to hot/cold thing so I am not just imagining it).

In our long talk, he told me few of the things that bother him (that I never called and that I never invited him to my place).”

 

6/6 Nearly 4 months update

After talking, he now contacts ES “every hour”

Spent night for first time at ES’s place now

ES finally has initiated one phone call

 

6/19 He LOVES me!

 

6/25 He lied to me

 

 

This relationship did NOT start off strong at all and right as they finally decided mutually that, yes, they DID *love* each other (about 6/19) then things started to be terribly off again.

I don't think neither one of them know what true love is, but I had gotten the impression from her posts in the past that he was truly trying to make the relationship work and doing nice things for her.

 

So my best guess is this: ES had her hot chocolate guy and seriously considered accepting this flirtation, after weighing matters in her relationship. She was also open to going out with other men.

 

Meanwhile, her now ex-BF was going through the same thing. Surely he considered the relationship. Then he made his choice. It's unfortunate but things were just never strong, for either of them.

I don't think ES is capable of having a good strong relationship, not until she heals from her past. I think her past blinds her and makes her worry all the time and fear all the time, instead of just enjoying loving and being loved, and she needs to learn what true love is. After she heals and loses her addiction to fear and worry and learns what love is, then she will be capable of having a wonderful relationship.

[OliveOyl]

I don't really see anyone who's reacted with a complete lack of compassion, which would be, by definition....

 

Some people think the way to alleviate the suffering is different than what you think, is all. To me, all mollycoddling someone like ES does is to allow her to ignore her own problems, enable the suffering and perpetuate it. Clearly others disagree, and that's fine. We'll never really see who is right. But I really feel I could not be more compassionate than what I am. What you are speaking of is perhaps sympathy --- particularly the kind of sympathy where you portray a feeling of agreement towards the person, which to me is always kind of like funhouse empathy. Sympathy in the wrong context is often enabling IMO.

 

I posted a bit later: "Being compassionate has nothing to do with agreeing with someone or saying what they want to hear."

 

And I see a handful of people posting with what I consider to be a lack of compassion. Vsmini's #446 post as an example.

 

I do not necessarily 100% believe ES. I know, from my history of interacting with others on the internet, that many people make stuff up. It's extremely common. I've seen psychopathic liars run over people's hearts.

 

However while I post in a specific thread, I suspend judgement and give people the benefit of the doubt. If I don't there is no reason to post in the thread. None. If everything ES says is fabricated, then any input/suggestions/feedback are completely moot (including the barrage of "you/your ex-BF" are crazy posts). If her main point is to gather attention, then guess what? She's completely achieved her goal (and all the "all you want are attention posts" are guess what - more attention! Yay!)

 

But what IF... everything she has written is pretty much exactly what happened? Finding out your BF dumped you while "falling in love" over some young foreign thing while you are at home sick -- regardless of the previous circumstances of the relationship -- is horrific.

[BetheButterfly]

What your argument posits is that those posters who are so certain that ES is mentally unhealthy and incapable of taking the advice she receives nonetheless believe it is ok to denigrate her because, hey, it's an open forum on the internet. In essence, she brings it on herself, so it's fair play.

 

It seems to me that if all those claiming that ES is in dire need of psychiatric help were truly so well-adjusted themselves, they'd be able to say their piece and move on. The need to name-call and ridicule would be absent.

 

One thing i am curious of is why she posts on here? She is under no obligation to share anything with loveshack, and actually, it can do more harm than good. For example, if any man interested in her, including her ex, read her posts, I don't think that they would want to have anything to do with her.

 

The reasons I think this is because

 

1. Most men don't like their dirty laundry being aired, even in an anonymous setting.

2. Most men want to trust their partner.

3. Most men want their partner to trust them.

4. Most men want their partner to resolve issues with them, and not with getting lots of strangers involved.

 

So, I would advocate that it is better for ES to go to a counselor, as well as talk about these issues with friends, then to air them in a public forum.

 

She needs to get ahold of herself and make changes for the better. Even though her threads are fascinating and sometimes happy and most of the times sad, I think it isn't helping her any to post here.

 

However, it's a free forum. If she wants to, she can. If people want to react in any way, they can, as long as they don't break the rules of the forum.

[Chocolat]

ES owns her choice to post here. But each of us owns how we choose to respond. She does not force us to behave poorly. That's a choice.

[Ms. Joolie]

I like that ES posts so much detail, I think it's great. I wish everyone would do that. I wish I were brave enough to, hah! It really helps to air your personal stuff and get perspective. I don't know her personal motives, but it makes for great discussion on a board like this.

[Els]

What is it about ES's threads that always draws our most prominent posters in, and causes them to have a huge argument with each other over her head? I always wondered.

[tigressA]

What is it about ES's threads that always draws our most prominent posters in, and causes them to have a huge argument with each other over her head? I always wondered.

 

I wonder that as well. So much ego being thrown around.

[Els]

I wonder that as well. So much ego being thrown around.

 

Yeah. =/ While I don't agree with many of ES's choices myself, I just think it's really, really sad to come into a breakup thread, disbelieve and scold and insult the poster, and then have a huge argument about her over her head in her breakup thread. Not saying that any one person is the sole perpetrator of this, but rather a combined effort. The same thing happened in SG's thread, which disgusted me as well, but it appears SG was not hurt enough by it to refrain from doing the exact same thing in ES's thread. Oy vey.

 

I personally believe things like loss, betrayal, and breakups are sacred in the sense that when someone is facing one, anyone with a shred of humanity in them should feel obliged to be supportive, regardless of any beef they might have with the poster or their desire to be proven right. I would feel absolutely terrible if, fresh from a heartbreak, I posted my raw emotions on LS and received nothing but callous insults in return. Is there so much pain here that people have become desensitised to it?

[torn_curtain]

Yeah. =/ While I don't agree with many of ES's choices myself, I just think it's really, really sad to come into a breakup thread, disbelieve and scold and insult the poster, and then have a huge argument about her over her head in her breakup thread. Not saying that any one person is the sole perpetrator of this, but rather a combined effort. The same thing happened in SG's thread, which disgusted me as well, but it appears SG was not hurt enough by it to refrain from doing the exact same thing in ES's thread. Oy vey.

 

I personally believe things like loss, betrayal, and breakups are sacred in the sense that when someone is facing one, anyone with a shred of humanity in them should feel obliged to be supportive, regardless of any beef they might have with the poster or their desire to be proven right. I would feel absolutely terrible if, fresh from a heartbreak, I posted my raw emotions on LS and received nothing but callous insults in return. Is there so much pain here that people have become desensitised to it?

 

Hear, hear.

[zengirl]

I don't think my posting style differs in an ES thread than any other thread, so I cannot answer that question. I always tend to post a lot in posts where there are a lot of people responding to the topic I post about. In terms of why I post in one thread and not another, it comes down to whether I have anything to say on the subject and if I can even read the OP's stuff. ES may have her flaws, but she has lovely grammar. So her posts are usually easy enough to respond to. Once the conversation gets going, I suppose it snowballs?

 

Not sure I agree. There are posters here who have been especially vitriolic in their opinions. One or two seem to find it necessary to go out of their way to say things that are rude and hurtful... things they would never consider helpful if they were on the receiving end. These are forum bullies, who not only insist their pov is correct, but denigrate anyone who dares have an opposing view. And no, this is not you ZG.

 

I think there may be a couple, but none of them prominent or repeating. Those who are repetitively posting are all attempting to be compassionate in their own way, I think. My point was mostly that abrasiveness does not necessarily signal a lack of compassion.

 

I actually thought that by giving him few weeks of peace pre-Euro trip and being extra nice, I was doing something positive. It had exactly the opposite effect.

 

It's funny how people do not know themselves at all. He told me at the start "Just be kind to me, that's the key to my heart". Being kind and sweet to him doesn't work at all.

 

Well, plenty of people know themselves and plenty don't. Best to just develop a manner of treating someone that is indicative to you of a healthy dynamic than to try to figure out what's most effective on each person. I am curious about the phrasing "a few weeks of peace."

 

That's not at all what I get. Actually this conversation makes me more convinced that his break up text was deliberately cruel. Even though he was ending things he was still hoping to elicit some response from her--probably because he's insecure and needy as f#ck--and disappointed when he didn't get one.

 

You're again making this all about you and whether you were right or not. If you want to offer good advice then take your ego out of it.

 

I'm actually not. I'm making it about what I believe to be true in human nature. Very rarely is someone a mustache-twirling, black hat wearing villain in any situation. I think ES and her BF were both wearing shades of gray in this relationship, and he just gave it the final death knell.

 

People will often write a narrative about themselves in their heads that has little bearing on the truth.

 

I totally agree. It's why I caution against painting a black/white picture of things. I think that's been my point, actually.

 

I don't know ES's ex, but the fact that they have mutual friends, the same social circle for a significant time, and those people thought he loved ES (all getting a better view than any of us on LS and a more objective one than ES herself even) leads me to believe, he loved her. A person with an overly romantic temperament may well, when feeling disconnected from the relationship (as ES also felt, so it likely was a vibe that existed), fall in love with another; the way he did it demonstrates mental instability, which I found surprising since ES knew him through mutual friends, but there are secret crazies out there. But I don't see any evidence he deliberately tried to do anything in order to hurt her. Clearly, his actions were hurtful. But I just think people tend to go overboard in ascribing malice to other people's actions in relationships, particularly when they're over, to the detriment of learning the actual takeaway lessons. I think ES has shown a pattern of doing this to an even more strong degree.

 

But what IF... everything she has written is pretty much exactly what happened? Finding out your BF dumped you while "falling in love" over some young foreign thing while you are at home sick -- regardless of the previous circumstances of the relationship -- is horrific.

 

Not really that horrific when you consider ES was eager to be out of the relationship as well. Still definitely crappy on his part (though intent and details matter to determine how crappy) and a bummer, but I guess I cannot see how it's horrific. She didn't want to be with him either. I will give her props in that she was trying to be mature in how she ended it, and he certainly did an incredibly not graceful thing in the way he ended it --- but the result is basically the same.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What is it about ES's threads that always draws our most prominent posters in, and causes them to have a huge argument with each other over her head? I always wondered.

 

IMO, the "most prominent posters" are sort of a clique, and ES herself is a member of it. So, it's normal that the others will be posting on her threads.

 

There are "hot buttons" galore for many of us expressed in most of her threads. For me personally, as everybody is probably sick of hearing by now, the main one is personal accountability, or lack of it.

 

Honestly I don't pick on ES, but every time she, or any other member whose post I read, exhibits a tendency to avoid their responsibility, to refuse to "clean up their side of the street," to blame, and to orchestrate situations and then play the victim because of their own actions ... I am going to call them out on it.

 

This often results in some other posters stepping in to tell me (and anyone else who is not "supporting" the above behaviors) we are cruel. And, that the "blaming victim" poster is entitled to our sympathy and collusion.

 

Sometimes this dynamic escalates into true meanness.

 

I am not employing any kind of "tough love." I am just trying to keep the truth at the fore. Feelings are feelings - feelings are not facts. Just because someone is angry or hurt or insecure does not necessarily point to someone else doing them wrong. I truly believe that internalizing this is absolutely good for all people who want to have healthy emotional lives.

 

Also, I believe that internalizing it, owning ones own part of everything, will HELP every single person to identify and AVOID unhealthy, toxic people and relationships.

 

These lessons did not come easily for me. They did come, though, and I really do have the perspective of living my life that way, and now this way.

[sweetjasmine]

He texted me this:

 

"I waited for you for 1 hour on Skype yesterday. I thought you wanted to talk...?"

 

Me: "I changed my mind, I am good. BTW I will give Y your keys. I will also get my stuff and return yours while you are away."

 

Him: "That's it? Don't you want more explanation? Aren't you upset?"

 

Me: "Nope. Losing someone like you is a blessing."

 

Him: "Don't you need closure?"

 

Me:"I beleive that closure somes from within and I have mine. Good luck with everything."

 

Him:"You are wishing me luck?"

 

....I stopped responding. What a f-ing jerk.

 

Wow, what a huge d-ck. And a total drama junkie.

 

You know, that does make me wonder whether he exaggerated or was trying to test you to get a reaction out of you. Highly emotional, impulsive people are unpredictable enough that I can both see him actually doing what he said he did (meeting a girl at a club and wanting to take her to Australia within a few days) and actually making the whole thing up to see how explosive your reaction would be in order to figure out whether your relationship was still viable.

 

In any case, it's better that you two won't see each other anymore, and I'm sorry it ended like that. You have your own issues to work on, but no one deserves to be on the receiving end of that kind of break-up. I hope you'll take some time to heal and take care of yourself a bit.

[torn_curtain]

I don't know ES's ex, but the fact that they have mutual friends, the same social circle for a significant time, and those people thought he loved ES (all getting a better view than any of us on LS and a more objective one than ES herself even) leads me to believe, he loved her. A person with an overly romantic temperament may well, when feeling disconnected from the relationship (as ES also felt, so it likely was a vibe that existed), fall in love with another; the way he did it demonstrates mental instability, which I found surprising since ES knew him through mutual friends, but there are secret crazies out there. But I don't see any evidence he deliberately tried to do anything in order to hurt her. Clearly, his actions were hurtful. But I just think people tend to go overboard in ascribing malice to other people's actions in relationships, particularly when they're over, to the detriment of learning the actual takeaway lessons. I think ES has shown a pattern of doing this to an even more strong degree.

 

 

Eh. I don't put much stock in what people on the outside think of a relationship without knowing its intimate details. I've seen too many relationships fail that looked peachy from the outside to everyone within their social circles.

 

I also don't put much stock on the opinions of mutual friends. Somebody can be a great friend and a responsible person in other respects but a totally unmitigated dick to their SO. I've seen this as well. They are even abusers who are generally well liked and have a wide circle of friends who may seem like loving husbands or boyfriends from the outside to their friends. A romantic relationship requires an extreme level of intimacy and responsibility that platonic friendships generally don't, and it also keys into all of people's insecurities and hang ups from childhood. It's where the crazy tends to come out if there is any.