Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[Star Gazer]

If others were more honest about themselves, perhaps they too would be in relationships.

 

So those who are not currently in relationships are dishonest about themselves? That's pure comedy right there. I, for one, am not in a relationship (I ended the last one) because I'm painfully honest about myself and WITH myself.

 

What about those who are married and palpably disaware or wilfully ignorant of who they are? So convenient, as you were "not even in a relationship" not that long ago.

[threebyfate]

You were asked a question which you chose to ignore. However you made a comment about less than honest posters who were therefore not in relationships. I suspect I am probably not the only one who thinks that could be interpreted as an insult.

People will see what they want to see. And quite frankly, I have no idea who's in a relationship on LS since I barely read other peoples' threads or posts.

 

This is what is so frustrating abour ES. At times she does recognise where she is going wrong yet she does not change those behaviours. People are getting tired of yet another ES thread where she does not listen/learn

People are entitled to change what they choose to change within them. They're also entitled to post as they wish. Not sure why it's so necessary to abide by the will of others on LS. And quite frankly, if people are tired of reading her threads, they can also stop posting in them.

100% agree. Her thread this morning where she talked about her bf's comments about actresses as not bothering her yet she came to LS where she was bound to get feedback that would feed her insecurities.

It's her right to post as she wishes.

 

Again I agree but probably with a differing viewpoint. I see the bf as weak yet ES's behaviours are way too demanding for any man. She sets standards for contact etc that the man must follow yet she does not (until the last few days it would seem). She does not want the bf to play basketball (?) with an attractive girl, yet she considers going on dates with strangers she meets in bookshops. She snoops through his phone/email/etc.

 

ES needs to be on her own and to genuinely address the problems she has which make her incapable of having a happy and fulfilling relationship. She cannot do this on her own. Professional help is needed and she definitely needs to go 100% NC with LS.

ES is reactive. B/f pulls crap, she strongly reacts. The type of guy who would be better for her, at least in my opinion, is one who doesn't deliberately yank her chain, keeping her off-balance for the purposes of his own self-esteem.

 

That said, ES can help herself by not allowing him to yank her chain. But I suspect this guy wouldn't be happy in a more calm relationship. Bet he's perfectly aware of how his distancing is exacerbating her insecurities.

 

As far as professional help, I'm a firm believer that everyone can use an emotional tune-up now and then. I also believe that people who don't believe in psychiatry, will never benefit from sessions. In pushing people towards professional help, it will only cause them to refute it more since it's being used as a deliberately hurtful weapon in many instances.

[vsmini]

I have to say that E_S is one of the most honest posters on LS about her own personal issues. If others were more honest about themselves, perhaps they too would be in relationships.

 

No - I'm sorry - denial. Girl is in lots of denial. You assume just because she's a train wreck and others aren't that she's the honest one?

 

Please. ES couldn't be honest with HERSELF if she tried. Or maybe she could but being honest with one's self is really hard work....hard work she's just not willing to deal with.

[Professor X]

Ultimately, I want someone that is reliable, stable and consistent(doesn't go hot/cold all the time), is able to bring up issues that are bothering him (he is so conflict avoidant, he has never brought up anything).

 

 

You mean someone like... you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I WAS SARCASTIC.

 

What the hell you still doing with him? You guys should break up.

[Star Gazer]

ES is reactive. B/f pulls crap, she strongly reacts. The type of guy who would be better for her, at least in my opinion, is one who doesn't deliberately yank her chain, keeping her off-balance for the purposes of his own self-esteem.

 

Who's yanking the chain here? The person who's broken up with her SO TWICE in five months to get a reaction out of him and to test his love? The person who tells her SO that she's considering going on dates with other guys while the other is away on vacation, to punish him because she's not getting enough attention while he's 1000s of miles away? Because that would be ES, not her BF.

 

I'm really hoping you're not reading all her threads, as the rest of us are...

[Nexus One]

Yes he has. Read up on her other threads. He`s both outright lied and lied by omission.

 

He also gave a reason for why he did that, namely that he thought that ES would flip out over him bumping into his ex and having a chat with her, because ES had him on egg shells. That being said he STILL told her, albeit later in the day or the next day, can't remember the exact timeline. Then ES argued with him over it for 12 hours until he broke down crying.

 

Then when he went on vacation she posted a thread where she said she had the temptation of cheating on him. She also wanted to go out with a guy she previously dated on okcupid.

 

If I was in the shoes of ES's boyfriend, then I wouldn't have gone to my brother to use his internet connection to Skype with her on my vacation either. Some breathing room is what I would have wanted. What she wants from him is unreasonable.

 

I agree that ES is getting a pounding and I also think that it's probably not as black and white as many people think when it comes to ES, but the same goes for her boyfriend I think. I still give her the benefit of the doubt in the sense that she might have some valid points, but we can't judge that from afar. From where we are the scale seems to tip in the direction that ES is acting abnormal, but perhaps most of us have it wrong, that's still a possibility.

 

What's important? That's the question. My answer to that is what would make her and her boyfriend happy. Another question is if ES can be happy at all given the way she thinks. I stand by what I said, she needs to be able to let go. The question is, what's holding her back, why can't she just be happy, satisfied and carefree?

Edited July 25, 2011 by Nexus One

[threebyfate]

He also gave a reason for why he did that, namely that he thought that ES would flip out over him bumping into his ex and having a chat with her, because ES had him on egg shells. That being said he STILL told her, albeit later in the day or the next day, can't remember the exact timeline. Then ES argued with him over it for 12 hours until he broke down crying.

He fessed up the next day but that doesn't change his lying and lying by omission.

 

I too would make a man cry if he pulled that kind of garbage on me, confessing or not. Although most likely, I would have dumped him after a few minutes.

 

Then when he went on vacation she posted a thread where she said she had the temptation of cheating on him. She also wanted to go out with a guy she previously dated on okcupid.

Reactionary stuff. She thinks things but never goes through with them. He DOES things and then appeals for forgiveness.

 

If I was in the shoes of ES's boyfriend, then I wouldn't have gone to my brother to use his internet connection to Skype with her on my vacation either. Some breathing room is what I would have wanted. What she wants from him is unreasonable.

The impression I got was that he did it because he had some spare time to fill.

 

I agree that ES is getting a pounding and I also think that it's probably not as black and white as many people think when it comes to ES, but the same goes for her boyfriend I think. I still give her the benefit of the doubt in the sense that she might have some valid points, but we can't judge that from afar. From where we are the scale seems to tip in the direction that ES acting abnormal, but perhaps most of us have it wrong, that's still a possibility.

There are times where I disagree with her. But it's not important to me that she have to agree with me. I can only provide her with my perspective and advice and it's her life to live so she can either take it or leave it. Quite often she leaves it, which is fine. I don't need to beat her up if she doesn't agree.

 

What's important? That's the question. My answer to that is what would make her and her boyfriend happy. Another question is if ES can be happy at all given the way she thinks. I stand by what I said, she needs to be able to let go. The question is, what's holding her back, why can't she just be happy, satisfied and carefree?

Good questions and ones only she and her b/f can answer.

[Hot Chick]

Like someone said, traveling in Europe is a life-changing experience. What you should have done is planned to buy a ticket and somehow flew over there and spent part of his travels with him - Europe is even better with a significant other!

but...it really is amazing to travel in europe...don't ruin this experience for him by getting difficult about constant contact. considering he is in Europe, I would expect an email/text about once every few days....and if I didn't get that, I would understand (because I have traveled in Europe.)

I know you're sick, but what is he supposed to do? He did text his concern...leave the poor guy alone and don't nag him about this. You could have, like I said, arranged to fly over there and met him for some of it, but you didn't. You missed out!

I think when he returns, you should listen to his travel adventures and don't nag him or bring up the contact. Don't put a damper at all on this trip for him. He doesn't want to remember the trip remembering the "needy girlfriend" who hounded him when he got home. You do that, and he'll dump you.

What happened to the hot chocolate guy? Maybe there's some opportunity there and it will help you get your mind off your neediness. Also I don't mean to get you upset or anything, but European women are stick thin and naturally beautiful. Not all of them, but they, in general, are a lot hotter in Europe without even trying. If he gets the sense that he has needy annoying girlfriend back home, those hot women are going to be very tempting for him. Sorry but it's true. Be the cool girlfriend and let him enjoy his vacay, since you chose not to join him for any of it. He'll be grateful and his eye won't wander if you do...you'll be the winner by letting him enjoy his vacay.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Hot Chick

[zengirl]

My personal opinion of this guy is that he's very aware of your insecurities and stokes the fire for them, to make himself feel secure. This isn't good for you and neither is the battering given on LS.

 

But she always feels bad about herself. With this guy. With the other guys. Alone.

 

Whether this guy is Prince Charming Incarnate or The Worst Boyfriend Ever (and I think he's somewhere in between, likely), ES would be unhappy. Because ES doesn't have her own house in order and also acts badly in the relationship. ES can't change her BF, whatever he is, but she CAN change herself and her reactions.

 

Just dumping this guy, without also learning the lessons and changing her reactions, will not get ES anywhere. That's not to say "Don't dump him" --- hell, I don't know if he's the guy for her. He doesn't seem like a totally crap guy to me (I probably wouldn't date him, but if she were a man, I wouldn't date ES either), whatever his flaws.

 

Both ES and her bf have major issues revolving around serious insecurities, narcissism, anxiety, doormat behavior, and on and on.

 

I think I'm with Ruby. I won't pretend to diagnose what exactly these issues are. But that's what ES should be dealing with. Though that's been true for awhile, long before this guy.

 

So those who are not currently in relationships are dishonest about themselves? That's pure comedy right there. I, for one, am not in a relationship (I ended the last one) because I'm painfully honest about myself and WITH myself.

 

What about those who are married and palpably disaware or wilfully ignorant of who they are? So convenient, as you were "not even in a relationship" not that long ago.

 

I never understand this argument. I do take more advice from people who are in happy marriages that have survived for awhile --- as that's a bit of an accomplishment --- than anyone else, but I don't understand basing one's worth on his/her current relationship status. Being single is usually different than a continual pattern of the SAME kind of failure. Though I guess I'm successful at the moment, by that rubric? Good thing I'm not a single failure! Just seems odd. There's nothing horrific with being single, and it is often the product of self-honesty, as you say. Finding someone you want to spend forever with (that's the goal of all this dating for me anyway) is not an easy task.

[threebyfate]

But she always feels bad about herself. With this guy. With the other guys. Alone.

 

Whether this guy is Prince Charming Incarnate or The Worst Boyfriend Ever (and I think he's somewhere in between, likely), ES would be unhappy. Because ES doesn't have her own house in order and also acts badly in the relationship. ES can't change her BF, whatever he is, but she CAN change herself and her reactions.

 

Just dumping this guy, without also learning the lessons and changing her reactions, will not get ES anywhere. That's not to say "Don't dump him" --- hell, I don't know if he's the guy for her. He doesn't seem like a totally crap guy to me (I probably wouldn't date him, but if she were a man, I wouldn't date ES either), whatever his flaws.

Settling for a guy like this who uses her insecurities against her (what I believe is happening with his distancing whether now or in the past) as well as outright lying to her and lying by omission, won't help her view on relationships.

 

But this experience with a guy who blows hot and cold has taught her something that she's admitted. She needs consistency. This is the first time she's admitted this. That's progression, in my opinion.

[zengirl]

Settling for a guy like this who uses her insecurities against her (what I believe is happening with his distancing whether now or in the past) as well as outright lying to her and lying by omission, won't help her view on relationships.

 

But this experience with a guy who blows hot and cold has taught her something that she's admitted. She needs consistency. This is the first time she's admitted this. That's progression, in my opinion.

 

Where did I say she should "settle" for anything? I just want ES to realize the places where SHE is wrong on things and damaging both herself and the relationship.

 

I don't think (from what I've heard) that her BF is consciously using her insecurities against her. I certainly think his and her insecurities collide. And I think ES also lies to him, if not outright then definitely by omission. Again, I'm not saying this guy is perfect---though he does have the patience of a saint in so many ways---but rather that his flaws are not the point. Just like the last guys flaws were not the point. And the guy before. Because it's always the same story with ES.

 

I don't think this guy is "not BF material" anymore than ES is "not GF material." They definitely seem drama-fraught enough that I get the argument that the relationship is likely good for neither of them, but painting him as the villain does nothing to actually help ES. Because it'll just be the same story with the next guy. And besides, it neglects all the nice, good, lovely things this man has done. Like most people, his behavior is a mix. It's a mix you can easily find unacceptable, but so is hers.

 

ES may need consistency, but I think the LEVEL of attention and consistency she craves is unattainable. If she needed a consistent, low level of attention, consistency might be possible, but she also needs A LOT of attention. And it's just not possible to be perfectly consistent with that. What ES needs is to feel secure with ES first; that's where real consistency is found, not in other people. This idea of consistency is nothing new to her. She's always worried about any potential change: he texted me in 10 minute intervals yesterday, but today it took an hour? What does that mean? (This is a bit of hyperbole, but not a whole lot.) So, of course, consistency is what she craves, but highly difficult to attain consistency.

[threebyfate]

Where did I say she should "settle" for anything? I just want ES to realize the places where SHE is wrong on things and damaging both herself and the relationship.

You're right. You didn't say that. My apologies.

 

I don't think (from what I've heard) that her BF is consciously using her insecurities against her. I certainly think his and her insecurities collide. And I think ES also lies to him, if not outright then definitely by omission. Again, I'm not saying this guy is perfect---though he does have the patience of a saint in so many ways---but rather that his flaws are not the point. Just like the last guys flaws were not the point. And the guy before. Because it's always the same story with ES.

As previously expressed to Nexus, ES thinks things but she doesn't do them unlike the b/f who does things then expects to be forgiven. How does she lie to him? Is every thought or angry reaction necessary to divulge to a partner?

 

I don't think this guy is "not BF material" anymore than ES is "not GF material." They definitely seem drama-fraught enough that I get the argument that the relationship is likely good for neither of them, but painting him as the villain does nothing to actually help ES. Because it'll just be the same story with the next guy. And besides, it neglects all the nice, good, lovely things this man has done. Like most people, his behavior is a mix. It's a mix you can easily find unacceptable, but so is hers.

He's not a villain but he does mess with her and also lies to her, self-admittedly. As far as future relationships, there's no guarantee that her future relationships will fail with a better guy. It's also not taking into account anything she has learned in this relationship.

 

ES may need consistency, but I think the LEVEL of attention and consistency she craves is unattainable. If she needed a consistent, low level of attention, consistency might be possible, but she also needs A LOT of attention. And it's just not possible to be perfectly consistent with that. What ES needs is to feel secure with ES first; that's where real consistency is found, not in other people.

The more he blows hot and cold, the more insecure she becomes. Wonder how much attention she would need with a more secure and consistent man?

 

I recall getting involved with a guy who blew hot and cold for a little while. It was such a mindscrew. When I met H. who's Mr. Consistency, it was such an amazing contrast. I'd finally come home.

[zengirl]

As previously expressed to Nexus, ES thinks things but she doesn't do them unlike the b/f who does things then expects to be forgiven. How does she lie to him? Is every thought or angry reaction necessary to divulge to a partner?

 

She does do things. She deleted his number, for instance. And while EVERY angry thought is not necessary to divulge to a partner, I'd say she goes above and beyond. I don't know what her BF "did" that was so horrible, as I've only heard about it briefly in this thread and so far as I can tell, it amounts to his having a chat with an ex? I'd say that's MUCH less damning than deleting phone numbers and musing about potential hot chocolate guys (not that ANY of these things are totally damning), but I don't know the whole story. I just think you're brushing aside all the nice, patient, totally great things he's done and vilifying him, and I don't think that'll help ES.

 

Honestly, if this guy were perfect, he probably wouldn't date ES. Because she's not at a level of being comfortable with herself and creating her own productive behavior to get that guy. Not that there is any such guy anyway; all people mess up sometimes. I definitely don't believe this guy to be some kind of malicious dude who pushes all her buttons on purpose. I think there's much to appreciate in this guy. That doesn't mean I think he's perfect. But his behavior isn't really the larger issue here, in my view, because it's always the same with ES. This is her pattern. He's just once piece of it.

 

Wonder how much attention she would need with a more secure and consistent man?

 

But it isn't just this guy. I've never seen ES not obsessed about how often a guy texted or messaged her or whatever.

 

I think sometimes people fall into a relationship that just fits, but I think that's pretty hard to do when you haven't worked your own **** out first. And this insecurity in ES didn't start with this guy. Not at all. So I just don't see how he's "causing" it or at fault for it. This is ES acting like she's always acted. Heck, she may actually be a little more secure in this relationship at times than the others; who's to say that's not because he IS actually a good guy?

 

Which, of course, doesn't mean he's the perfect guy for her. I don't see a rosy ending here, but it's all a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy for her at the same time. Who's to say HE wouldn't be an even more awesome boyfriend with a more secure and less needy GF? ETA: This is not to say that it's "all ES's fault" as I don't believe it's ALL anyone's fault. I do believe that in order for ES to find the consistency she seeks, she needs to change. And that all data collected before she can feel safe and consistent with herself is poor data. I don't believe there's such a thing as a "consistent" man who will put up with any kind of neediness. I believe that being needy and being inconsistent are two aspects of the rubberband relationship phenomenon and one begets the other, and that both ES and her boyfriend have played both sides (each) of that phenomenon in this relationship. ES needs to find her own consistency, not wait for a man to bring it to her.

Edited July 26, 2011 by zengirl

[Mme. Chaucer]

As I've said before, I think it's strange that anyone can judge the guy and his intentions towards ES based upon what we know. We ONLY know what she tells us. When she wants support for the relationship, she tells us lovey dovey stuff. When she wants support in being a victim, she trash talks the guy.

 

Isn't it epically clear that we are getting a profoundly biased picture of boyfriend?

 

Of course we only get one side of EVERY story here on LS but in this poster's threads, it's extreme.

 

We do, however, get a pretty intense picture of ES and how she thinks, and what she does, and what she considers a problem and what's worthy of some good pot stirring.

 

I think we really can ONLY comment with any reasonable basis upon ES herself and how she's comporting herself, with the information we get. Which is plentiful.

[threebyfate]

She does do things. She deleted his number, for instance. And while EVERY angry thought is not necessary to divulge to a partner, I'd say she goes above and beyond. I don't know what her BF "did" that was so horrible, as I've only heard about it briefly in this thread and so far as I can tell, it amounts to his having a chat with an ex? I'd say that's MUCH less damning than deleting phone numbers and musing about potential hot chocolate guys (not that ANY of these things are totally damning), but I don't know the whole story. I just think you're brushing aside all the nice, patient, totally great things he's done and vilifying him, and I don't think that'll help ES.

No where have I said he was malicious or tried to vilify him. But I have brought to the forefront what I feel are dealbreakers. Perhaps other people view his lying as acceptable behaviour but I don't. Perhaps other people view blowing hot and cold as acceptable forms of relationship dynamics but I don't.

 

Honestly, if this guy were perfect, he probably wouldn't date ES. Because she's not at a level of being comfortable with herself and creating her own productive behavior to get that guy. Not that there is any such guy anyway; all people mess up sometimes. I definitely don't believe this guy to be some kind of malicious dude who pushes all her buttons on purpose. I think there's much to appreciate in this guy. That doesn't mean I think he's perfect. But his behavior isn't really the larger issue here, in my view, because it's always the same with ES. This is her pattern. He's just once piece of it.

 

But it isn't just this guy. I've never seen ES not obsessed about how often a guy texted or messaged her or whatever.

 

I think sometimes people fall into a relationship that just fits, but I think that's pretty hard to do when you haven't worked your own **** out first. And this insecurity in ES didn't start with this guy. Not at all. So I just don't see how he's "causing" it or at fault for it. This is ES acting like she's always acted. Heck, she may actually be a little more secure in this relationship at times than the others; who's to say that's not because he IS actually a good guy?

 

Which, of course, doesn't mean he's the perfect guy for her. I don't see a rosy ending here, but it's all a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy for her at the same time. Who's to say HE wouldn't be an even more awesome boyfriend with a more secure and less needy GF?

 

And none of this is to "attack" ES. I've no desire to tear her down. I just hate to see her spinning in circles and constantly justifying why her behavior is totally okay and it's just the "wrong men."

My perception of all this is to question the need to vilify ES, considering that she's not the one lying. As previously stated, he jacks around with her, she reacts by posting her thoughts on LS. But she doesn't put her thoughts to action, where his thoughts are being manifested in actions and then comes the beg for forgiveness.

 

Anyways, interesting discussion. We don't have to agree.

[zengirl]

No where have I said he was malicious or tried to vilify him. But I have brought to the forefront what I feel are dealbreakers. Perhaps other people view his lying as acceptable behaviour but I don't. Perhaps other people view blowing hot and cold as acceptable forms of relationship dynamics but I don't.

 

You said he intentionally exploited her insecurities. . . that, to me, is malicious, and it's painting him in the light of a villain. Hence villifying him. You also skip over all the ridiculously patient and nice things he does and the reasons behind his one (seemingly small? am I missing something here? He just neglected to tell her he spoke to an ex?) lie, which was likely conflict avoidance. And I can understand why someone would be terrified of conflict with a woman like ES is all.

 

I find neither his, nor ES's actions in this relationship acceptable forms of relationship dynamics, but I think it's not simply a matter of him being the wrong guy, is my point.

 

I don't feel I AM villifying ES. I did ETA to say I don't think it's her fault perse. That's not really how relationships work. I do think it's ES's fault that ES isn't happy, but that's because I believe it is someone's fault whenever they aren't happy in most cases and especially when they have a pattern of recurring behavior.

[threebyfate]

You said he intentionally exploited her insecurities. . . that, to me, is malicious, and it's painting him in the light of a villain. Hence villifying him. You also skip over all the ridiculously patient and nice things he does and the reasons behind his one (seemingly small? am I missing something here? He just neglected to tell her he spoke to an ex?) lie, which was likely conflict avoidance. And I can understand why someone would be terrified of conflict with a woman like ES is all.

 

I find neither his, nor ES's actions in this relationship acceptable forms of relationship dynamics, but I think it's not simply a matter of him being the wrong guy, is my point.

 

I don't feel I AM villifying ES. I did ETA to say I don't think it's her fault perse. That's not really how relationships work. I do think it's ES's fault that ES isn't happy, but that's because I believe it is someone's fault whenever they aren't happy in most cases and especially when they have a pattern of recurring behavior.

He didn't just neglect to tell her he spoke to an ex. You might want to go back to read the thread. It's not that simple.

 

Assuming that any future relationships won't work for ES without knowing the type of guy she will connect with, their relationship dynamic and also her state of mind, as at the point they connect, is vilifying ES.

[Star Gazer]

As previously expressed to Nexus, ES thinks things but she doesn't do them unlike the b/f who does things then expects to be forgiven.

 

She has broken up with him twice as punishment. She also went against her promise/MUTUAL agreement not to go clubbing. She also told him of her plans to see an old date from OKC. If that's not all "doing something," I don't know what is.

[Eddie Edirol]

ES loves to feel these emotions and thats when the drama carries to her posts. So she will never calm down reacting to her bf's actions, whether its this one, or the ones after him. She likes the feelings that come with the drama, thats why she keeps riling herself up. It will never change until she matures a lil more. She likes this drama, she will continue to vent here as a result. She wont listen to advise because listening means she would have to stop enjoying herself. If she thought rationally, she wouldnt be agonizing in the first place, and the relationship would be fine. Her bf wouldnt have omitted facts to her, because he would have known that she wouldnt give him shyt over his ex.

 

So everyone be ready for more threads like this....forever.

[Star Gazer]

I find neither his, nor ES's actions in this relationship acceptable forms of relationship dynamics, but I think it's not simply a matter of him being the wrong guy, is my point.

 

This.

 

Problem is, in TBF's view, ES is innocent. Purely innocent, and the BF is a malicious villain. She absolutely refuses to see ES's at-least-equal, if not greater share, in all this drama.

[zengirl]

I don't even know what thread it is. I will say, in the context of what she's described in this thread, I don't see a problem. If there was a past problem she was aware of, she apparently chose to move on from it. This guy has done so many wonderfully nice things. He may not be perfect, but I think he is far from the worst out there and far from a villain. Unless there's a thread that he slept with a hot chocolate girl or something out there.

 

Assuming that any future relationships won't work for ES without knowing the type of guy she will connect with, their relationship dynamic and also her state of mind, as at the point they connect, is vilifying ES.

 

So you think ES is an emotionally healthy human being who has done nothing to contribute to the toxicity in this relationship?

 

And she should just change nothing about her own issues and insecurities but instead wait around for a guy who happens to perfectly fit all her (really difficult to fit) guidelines, rather than actively look at her own mistakes and attempt to get help?

 

Hell, she might magically meet someone who things go perfectly with, I don't know, but it seems pretty damn unlikely to me. What seems more likely is more of the same, since none of this (as I said) is confined to this particular BF. It's her pattern emerging time and time again. Need for ridiculous amounts of contact and attention paired with persistent over-analysis combined with lack of trust are her modis operandi.

[threebyfate]

I don't even know what thread it is. I will say, in the context of what she's described in this thread, I don't see a problem. If there was a past problem she was aware of, she apparently chose to move on from it. This guy has done so many wonderfully nice things. He may not be perfect, but I think he is far from the worst out there and far from a villain. Unless there's a thread that he slept with a hot chocolate girl or something out there.

You should read the thread. It puts a big red sticker on his forehead.

 

So you think ES is an emotionally healthy human being who has done nothing to contribute to the toxicity in this relationship?

 

And she should just change nothing about her own issues and insecurities but instead wait around for a guy who happens to perfectly fit all her (really difficult to fit) guidelines, rather than actively look at her own mistakes and attempt to get help?

 

Hell, she might magically meet someone who things go perfectly with, I don't know, but it seems pretty damn unlikely to me. What seems more likely is more of the same, since none of this (as I said) is confined to this particular BF. It's her pattern emerging time and time again. Need for ridiculous amounts of contact and attention paired with persistent over-analysis combined with lack of trust are her modis operandi.

Wrong. I think ES has more than enough admitted to her own flaws. I also think that hammering her on her self-admitted flaws does nothing beyond alienating her.

 

Also my opinion is that staying with this guy doesn't help her to move forward on these issues. If anything, they exacerbate them.

 

And that is your opinion. What you're not admitting to, is the exacerbation caused by an unhealthy relationship dynamic which might or might not happen in a future relationship with an emotionally healthy guy.

[zengirl]

You should read the thread. It puts a big red sticker on his forehead.

 

Wrong. I think ES has more than enough admitted to her own flaws. I also think that hammering her on her self-admitted flaws does nothing beyond alienating her.

 

Also my opinion is that staying with this guy doesn't help her to move forward on these issues. If anything, they exacerbate them.

 

And that is your opinion. What you're not admitting to, is the exacerbation caused by an unhealthy relationship dynamic which might or might not happen in a future relationship with an emotionally healthy guy.

 

I really don't think this BF has made ES any worse, so I don't see this exacerbation.

 

I went and re-read one thread that said he'd thought about dating some other girls around the time they got together, but ES kinda did the same thing. . . so I'm missing the red sticker. Honestly, I cannot go back and read all of ES's old threads. Just the one thread stressed me out.

 

I think blaming her issues on this relationship does nothing to help her. ES brought these issues into the relationship, and she will leave with them. Thus: I really have no idea what quality her BF is because I get everything through an unreliable filter. But she's said enough nice things he does that I really seriously doubt he's a jerk. He may have made mistakes, but so did she.

 

I don't think ES has really admitted to her own flaws, so we disagree there. She sometimes admits to them, and she certainly honestly spews them out, but when it comes to actually confronting them, she then tells us why she 'knew this would happen' all along and self-justifies and stops herself from getting help (even in the one thread, not sure if it's the one you mean, I went to re-read, she gives 1000 reasons for why she can't do therapy or anything to help herself). Which is what vilifying this guy allows her to keep doing.

 

That's not to say I think she should stay in the relationship. I just honestly don't see how she can know anything about this relationship, as a relationship, and assess its merits in her present state. All she's going to be doing is reacting on a series of impulses that have created this big mess. As I said above (way above), if she breaks up with him, that's valid, so long as she does it in a mature way (i.e. no losing his # bull****).

Edited July 26, 2011 by zengirl

[Star Gazer]

I don't think ES has really admitted to her own flaws, so we disagree there. She sometimes admits to them, and she certainly honestly spews them out, but when it comes to actually confronting them, she then tells us why she 'knew this would happen' all along and self-justifies and stops herself from getting help (even in the one thread, not sure if it's the one you mean, I went to re-read, she gives 1000 reasons for why she can't do therapy or anything to help herself). Which is what vilifying this guy allows her to keep doing.

 

ES is open and "admits" her behaviors insofar as she's honest about what she's doing and how she's thinking.

 

What she does NOT do is "admit" that what she's doing and how she's thinking is a PROBLEM. A big, huge problem. In essense, she's not taking any responsibility. Rather, with TBF's "support," she's able to say/think, "This mess isn't my fault or responsibility. It's BF's. He's a bad, bad guy! Even all the bad stuff I did? Well, he made me do it!"

[threebyfate]

I really don't think this BF has made ES any worse, so I don't see this exacerbation.

Considering the number of threads about this guy, you don't see any exacerbation?

 

 

He went to a bar with his friends last night. He kept in touch through the night. He was updating me where they went and who with.

 

Today he confessed that they actually run into his ex. Then they went with her and her friends to another bar. He failed to mention it in his texts. I texted him right around that time and he said that he is "consoling his male friend after a break up". He also got really drunk which is unusual for him (I explicitly told him not to drink much and to have an early night because he is meeting my parents today).

 

My issue is, why dishonesty about running into his ex and hanging out with her? Sure he confessed the next day but why not right away when I was texting him at the time?

 

We argued over this. He claims that he didn't mention it at the time because he knew I would lay awake at home worrying over it. He didn't want to put me through that so he decided to wait till he saw me to tell me.

 

I feel like he lied that night and I am really not sure how to trust him on his next boy's night.

 

He is now sleeping in a bed next to me. I feel like I am disconnecting with him over this and my walls are going up

 

Am I over-reacting?

 

I went and re-read one thread that said he'd thought about dating some other girls around the time they got together, but ES kinda did the same thing. . . so I'm missing the red sticker. Honestly, I cannot go back and read all of ES's old threads. Just the one thread stressed me out.

Refer to above quote from ES. The thread title was "He lied to me" or somesuch, pretty hard to miss.

 

I think blaming her issues on this relationship does nothing to help her. ES brought these issues into the relationship, and she will leave with them. Thus: I really have no idea what quality her BF is because I get everything through an unreliable filter. But she's said enough nice things he does that I really seriously doubt he's a jerk. He may have made mistakes, but so did she.

I'm not blaming her issues on solely this relationship. Once again, she self-admits to her issues so hammering her on her issues, does nothing beyond alienate her. Quite a distinction.

 

I don't think ES has really admitted to her own flaws, so we disagree there. She sometimes admits to them, and she certainly honestly spews them out, but when it comes to actually confronting them, she then tells us why she 'knew this would happen' all along and self-justifies and stops herself from getting help (even in the one thread, not sure if it's the one you mean, I went to re-read, she gives 1000 reasons for why she can't do therapy or anything to help herself). Which is what vilifying this guy allows her to keep doing.

 

That's not to say I think she should stay in the relationship. I just honestly don't see how she can know anything about this relationship, as a relationship, and assess its merits in her present state. All she's going to be doing is reacting on a series of impulses that have created this big mess. As I said above (way above), if she breaks up with him, that's valid, so long as she does it in a mature way (i.e. no losing his # bull****).

I'm leaving it to her to address her own issues that she's well aware of. As far as vilifying this guy, he does quite well on his own.

 

Did her impulses cause the mess all on their own? Nope. Is this guy good for her? Nope. Is there potential for a better guy to be good for her? Yes.