Need to vent! DDay happen....

[TurningTables]

Oh, right... it was alll the Op's fault, wasn't it? The MM had nothing to do with it, correct? :laugh:

 

That is absolute BS, and OP... please don't identify yourself to the MM's wife, you will open doors you may regret later. She might come after you.

 

 

Turbo: I have no intention of contacting her. If she does come after me in any way, I am going to lay everything on the line and be truthful. I have nothing to gain by lying. What she does with the information is up to her.I do have two conversations I did keep ( deleting everything else that I could when I went to NC the first time) that would back some of what I have to say. Which is a good thing.

[herenow]

Since there was no PA, is it possible that the MM doesn't even think he has something to hide? Is it possible that he told his wife the truth as he believes it to be? Is it possible that he really does not believe or intended the "EA" to even be an affair at all? Is it possible that TT sees this as an affair, but the MM does not? Is it possible that he is just a guy who acted in a way to make TT feel like she was in a PA, but his intentions were just friendly? This would be really easy to explain to a wife. And would explain how he could ask about the author with no problem.

Edited July 27, 2011 by herenow

[TurningTables]

Since there was no PA, is it possible that the MM doesn't even think he has something to hide? Is it possible that he told his wife the truth as he believes it to be? Is it possible that he really does not believe or intended the "EA" to even be an affair at all? Is it possible that TT sees this as an affair, but the MM does not? Is it possible that he is just a guy who acted in a way to make TT feel like she was in a PA, but his intentions were just friendly? This would be really easy to explain to a wife. And would explain how he could ask about the author with no problem.

 

 

Wow..Thanks. I really take offense to what you wrote.

 

If you think that telling someone that they dont trust themselves around you anymore (among other things he said) "friendly" then I must be delusional.

[MissBee]

I am so mad and hurt right now, so forgive me if I dont make total sense. I am in week 4 of NC. Something blew up in my face this past weekend. Apparently, someone at xMM's work has been gossiping about me and xMM. When he was working nights, I had brought him dinner. Now, it has reached someone in my family ear's and I was basically confronted with the whole thing. I came clean. Now here is the kicker:

 

xMM contacted me about it. I told him I told the truth and he said not to worry because he had already talked to his W about me and not to "worry" about him. Either she is a doormat or he ball faced lied to her. Here is where Im pissed. He comes out of this smelling like a rose. It was as if he didnt take ANY responsability for what he did. Im "tainted" in the eyes of my family and who knows who else. Im left out in the cold, trying to pull the pieces back together.

 

I thought I was moving on and putting this whole stupid thing behind me. How do I face things now? Talk about a all-time-low.

 

I know the experience of a breakup and constantly comparing how the other person's life seems, whether they feel pain, whether or not they are as hurt, whether or not you're the only one facing repercussions, who has the raw deal etc. It doesn't help. Believe me. You will work yourself up into increased anger as you focus on this person and how things seem for them....

 

Don't let that be your concern.

 

 

You did what you did and it had a particular consequence for you, he's not to blame and there is no use pitting your outcome against his as: 1) Two people can participate in the SAME scenario but for different reasons with different lessons for both 2) You have no true idea of how he feels and what his actual consequences are or will later be and 3) Whether or not he smells like a rose or is covered in dog shyt, it will make no difference in terms of what happened to you.

 

Everything is out in the open now.....there must be some freedom in that! There is no hidden skeleton that you have to worry about popping up later. People will eventually get over it and those who can't...screw them! Now you have come clean in all respects and you can continue walking your NEW path. It's fresh now so the hurt is immense and the anger is renewed but in another 2, 3, 4 weeks you may very well feel differently.

 

This too shall pass and like I said, since it is all out there, this time NC and you moving forward is even more likely. There is usually much back and forth and a roller coaster before things taper off to an equilibrium, such is the nature of the beast. Just don't get stuck in the anger stage and the comparing lives stage as it can really mess you up as you perpetuate the situation in your mind long after the reality is different. Breathe a sigh of release that it is out there and that you can leave him and his life behind, your lesson is yours, his is his, and you'll be fine.

[Gentlegirl]

Don't ever assume anything about the xMM

 

When I broke up with the xMM he told his wofe he had been on the phone to somebody who had a "thing" about him in his walking group. Went into damage control minimised the whole thing

 

A friend of mine saw hims and his wife doing their gardn together not long after. They were laughing and talking like normal people do.

 

I wondered if he made the whole D day thing up just to get rid of me. I'll never know so I don't wonder any more.

 

All I know is he walked away from me after 3 years and I am almost 8 months NC, that's all I need to know

 

Gentlegirl

[KathyM]

MM lie. I think he is lying to you, do NOT resume contact with this SOB!

 

And seriously... don't worry about your family member and please do not feel pressured to "confide" in your family member. That is not anyone's business. Let it go.

 

*YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING TO ANYONE!* Let things settle down, and whatever you do, do not take Kathy's advice - above. Bad move. Let it all die a natural death.

No, she doesn't have to say anything, but should she? Well, she could just try to sweep it under the rug, let the MM go on to continue to deceive his wife, let the BS live a life never knowing what that man she has sleeping next to her has done to her behind her back, keep her in the dark so she never has an opportunity to find happiness with someone she can trust. If that's something all you OW and former OW can live with, so be it. The honorable thing to do would be to call the wife with the message, such as I provided, and let her know the truth, allow yourself to be held accountable and own your part in it, and apologize for it. You don't have to give your name at all. You can block your number so she doesn't have it. But she deserves to know the truth. And she's likely not going to get it from the MM. An apology would go a long way in repairing the damage, and it would get the truth out in the open. Without the truth, there is no healing. Not for anyone. By assuring the wife of your remorse and your intention to stay away from her husband, you will help the healing process, since she now won't have to fear this stranger that is out to steel her husband. Right now, she's probably wondering who you are. What are you, or have you, been doing with her husband. Are you going to continue seeing him, and she thinks of you as a threat to her marriage. But coming out into the open and assuring her the affair is over and expressing your profuse regret, it gives the BS some amount of peace of mind. That she now knows the truth. And that you will no longer be in the picture. You owe that to her. That's the honorable thing to do. I know these OW or former OW on here would suggest to keep it in the dark, but that's the coward's way out. I would want to know the truth, and I would want to clear the slate and own up to my part in it, and assure the wife that you will never let that happen again. When I was only 12, my older sister, who was only 17 at the time, was a party to an affair by a MM that she used to babysit his kids. Our family found out about it, and my twin sister and I, at only 12 years old, called the wife and told her the truth about what her husband had been up to. She had the right to know. He had to be stopped. She ended up moving the family, along with the husband, several states away to get away from the situation. But my twin sister and I are glad we put a stop to that, and glad the wife knew what she was dealing with. And we'd do the same today if we had to. To come clean with it, to confess it, to apologize for it, is the right thing to do. It's the only way healing can begin for all parties.

[herenow]

Wow..Thanks. I really take offense to what you wrote.

 

If you think that telling someone that they dont trust themselves around you anymore (among other things he said) "friendly" then I must be delusional.

 

Well, I only asked if it's possible. No offense intended. Some people flirt with no intention of anything more. Some people get a ego stoke from it. It has happened many times. You said he had no problem asking you about the author. So, I asked if it's possible he sees things different than you do. Is it possible?

Edited July 27, 2011 by herenow

[KathyM]

Oh, right... it was alll the Op's fault, wasn't it? The MM had nothing to do with it, correct? :laugh:

 

That is absolute BS, and OP... please don't identify yourself to the MM's wife, you will open doors you may regret later. She might come after you.

I didn't say it was only the OP's fault. The MM is equally to blame, if not more so, since he was the one that broke his vows. She doesn't have to identify herself to the BS. I would recommend that she not identify herself. But she should expose the truth, and not let the lie to continue. The whole point of this thread was the upset that the OP felt because she was left holding the bag for the affair, and she was getting the fallout, but the MM seemed to get off scott free and have no repercussions. I think it's time to let the truth stand, and let the chips fall where they may. The honorable thing to do would be to confess the truth, and apologize for the part you played in it.

[MissBee]

Well, I only asked if it's possible. No offense intended. Some people flirt with no intention of anything more. Some people get a ego stoke from it. It has happened many times. You said he had no problem asking you about the author. So, I asked if it's possible he sees things different than you do. Is it possible?

 

I see where you're coming from herenow.

 

It indeed has happened in romantic dalliances, where one party's take on events and their meaning is incongruent with the other's. I am not just talking about a person who is lying here, but where it truly was seen differently by both people, but in their own world they believed they were on the same page.

 

A friend of mine had a dalliance with a guy and it was completely casual on his part, albeit he told her he could see her in his future, operate word "could" and not that he had plans to be with her. She ran off and changed her status on Facebook to "In a Relationship" and proceed to call him her boyfriend and was in for a rude awakening when he told her he had a date with someone else and thought NOTHING of it, and he was shocked to realize she thought they were in an exclusive relationship and she felt upset that he was cheating on her....when she relayed the story to me I had to "side" with him, in that he really did not agree to being in a relationship with her although he said sweet nothings that implied it.

 

Anyway TT...I am not insinuating that you are like my friend or the situation is like hers. But I thought it an interesting and relevant point that in ANY relationship, one has to consider whether or not one is truly on the same page as the other person or have we taken insinuations and implied meanings to be more than they are and is our interpretation of events the other's interpretation too. Some people do tell bold-faced lies and some truly have a different take on a matter, that would seem like a lie to us, if we thought we were on the same page.

[TurningTables]

Well, I only asked if it's possible. No offense intended. Some people flirt with no intention of anything more. Some people get a ego stoke from it. It has happened many times. You said he had no problem asking you about the author. So, I asked if it's possible he sees things different than you do. Is it possible?

 

HN and MB:

I asked this question myself in this very thread earlier. I then however, thought about this. There is NO way that he meant to be only my friend. We even talked about where our friendship was going, how we felt and knew where it was headed and still kept forging ahead until I applied the brakes along with his W complaining about the texting. We even talked about how much longer it was going take to happen. Does that sound like "friendly intentions" to you? No. He even told me that he wanted "it". Guy/Girl friendships do NOT talk about sleeping with each other.

 

Just because we didnt go all the way into a PA, does not make it any less wrong or make it to be all in my head.

[fooled once]

It is something to think about. I havent thought about that, that he really didnt talk to her. If he did, I am seriously doubting now that he told the truth about HIS part in all this mess. He has my emails and could have easily twisted things his way.

 

If she does contact me, I will hold nothing back. It will be the truth and nothing but the truth. And you are right, he is a liar. I never thought Id say that about him after all this time. You think you know someone.....

 

Hey. I hope you are feeling somewhat better.

 

I was thinking when I read your post about him telling the wife ... I am really thinking he told her that you have a crush on him, that he has been friendly to you, but you mistakenly thought that his friendliness was interest. He probably told his wife that he befriended you because you were always alone and he felt like you needed a friend. When he realized you wanted more than friends, he told you that he was happily married and tried to distance himself from you

 

I am glad a family member said something to you ... Because now you are good and angry and IF his wife calls, you won't play protector of him. You will give your view of the situation, which I am sure is totally different than his

 

Now, do NOT beat yourself up! You stopped things from going further than an EA, you respected yourself enough to put an end to it...can you imagine if you had stayed longer in the affair? Can you imagine if you conti Jed to wait on a coward?

 

You stand tall, with your head held high. You believed a liar. But you now know what a jerk he really is and you are putting things in your life back in order! I am very proud of you!!!

[NoIDidn't]

HN and MB:

I asked this question myself in this very thread earlier. I then however, thought about this. There is NO way that he meant to be only my friend. We even talked about where our friendship was going, how we felt and knew where it was headed and still kept forging ahead until I applied the brakes along with his W complaining about the texting. We even talked about how much longer it was going take to happen. Does that sound like "friendly intentions" to you? No. He even told me that he wanted "it". Guy/Girl friendships do NOT talk about sleeping with each other.

 

Just because we didnt go all the way into a PA, does not make it any less wrong or make it to be all in my head.

 

I read HN's post and knew she meant absolutely no offense from it. She just doesn't post that way.

 

My H had an EA several years ago and he couldn't rationalize away his correspondence with the young lady as "friendly intentions" either. I don't think your guy had friendly intentions. I think he's just one of those people totally ignorant about the harm that "talking" and emotional connections do to their relationships.

 

You'd be surprised at the number of men that don't feel that talking to a woman other than their W in manners that they would never want their W to catch them doing is an affair or in any way wrong. They say, we were just "talking", when it was so much more than that. And the woman they were just "talking" to obviously thought it was much more than that as well. (not at all accusing you of being delusional, no where near doing that, just explaining how your guy might actually not feel like he led you on or cheated on his W).

 

I think your guy knows that he's cheating on his W though. My H was talking about a future with his former co-worker. That is certainly not "just talking" and way passes the "just friends" line. It just seems that right now your guy is looking like the victim of a vamp that's trying to steal him from his W with her tasty wares (lol, the dinners you used to take him).

 

I hope you don't mind my attempt at humor. I am certainly not making light of your situation, but can see how your guy is acting all nonchalant about things right now. The heat isn't on him, its on you. You'll know right away when the heat is on him. He'll look and sound horrible. Right now, he thinks he dodged a bullet.

[KathyM]

I'm sorry Kathy. I don't see where this is HER responsibility. It's her WS's deal. Let him be the one to tell her the truth. She doesn't owe his wife anything. The onus is on him. If he wants to give her the gory details and repair his marriage, then good on him, it's THEIR relationship to heal.

 

I just don't understand (in this situation) why TT needs to be the one to spill the beans. Her best option (IMO) is to leave well enough alone, she owes no explanation to his wife. Seriously? It's on him.

Chances are, the wife won't get the truth from her husband. MM typically only confess to hard evidence, and even then, they try to deny or put their spin on it. In fact, who knows what the MM has said--he could have told his wife this is all the OPs fault. She came onto him. He tried to keep his distance. She was the pursuer, and he the unwilling victim of her advances. Who knows? She would be clearing the slate by telling the wife the truth. She would be easing the wife's fears by bringing it out in the open and assuring the wife that the OP is out of the picture. She would be providing the wife the choices that the wife deserves. By knowing the truth, the wife is given the opportunity to make choices in her life--about whether to stay in the marriage, about what needs to be done with the marriage. The truth is easier to swallow than lies and deception. When people know what they are dealing with, they have choices. When they are kept in the dark, their rightful choices are taken away from them. The OP did play a part in this, and therefore, does have a responsibility for the harm that was done. She can't take back what was done in the past, but she can do the honorable thing now to own up to the truth, apologize for it, and allow the wife to be able to operate and make choices based on truth and not lies.

[MissBee]

HN and MB:

I asked this question myself in this very thread earlier. I then however, thought about this. There is NO way that he meant to be only my friend. We even talked about where our friendship was going, how we felt and knew where it was headed and still kept forging ahead until I applied the brakes along with his W complaining about the texting. We even talked about how much longer it was going take to happen. Does that sound like "friendly intentions" to you? No. He even told me that he wanted "it". Guy/Girl friendships do NOT talk about sleeping with each other.

 

Just because we didnt go all the way into a PA, does not make it any less wrong or make it to be all in my head.

 

 

I totally get you! Your situation doesn't seem to be misconstrued. I am sure however, that to save his own tail, he is going to milk the fact that EA's are grayer than PA's for his own purposes.

[Dionysus]

So, uh...with all this philosophising on the ethics of "the truth" and who should be the one to deliver it, I have a question for you TT...

What next?

 

Do you have a clear and concise plan of where to go from this? I can tell you that "slowly get over my MM despite this setback, and move on with my life" is a pretty vague plan.

 

I think that a clear-cut list would help you focus on where you want to be. Say, by next year.

[KathyM]

Again........it's up to TT but your post is pushy, aggressive and meant to guilt her into doing what you want. Not cool!

I'm standing up for a principle. I don't have a stake in this. She is free to do what she wants. I'm expressing the value of honesty, owning up to your mistakes, and apologizing for them. The value of trying to repair, at least to some extent, the damage that was done, and to give the wife peace of mind that comes from knowing the truth, and knowing that the OW is no longer a threat. I'm stating my opinion about the value of honesty, just like most of the rest of you are stating your opinion about not disclosing. That's what this forum is about--getting other people's perspectives, and then deciding for oneself what to do. So that's what I'm providing, just like the rest of you are--my perspective. Most of the posters on this thread are giving their opinions based on the perspective of the OW. I'm giving mine based on both--OW and BS.

[Dionysus]

Your approach is heavy handed. Aren't you training to be a therapist?

 

The good news BB, is that this is a random website on the internet, and not a therapist's office.

 

What you need Kathy, is something that professionals like to call (although they give it a different name) "the wall of apathy". I'm at the point where a woman could deliver a heart-breaking story of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, childhood abandonment, drug addictions, and a little bit of infidelity on the side, and I wouldn't bat an eye. You'll find it beneficial.

[TurningTables]

I'm standing up for a principle. I don't have a stake in this. She is free to do what she wants. I'm expressing the value of honesty, owning up to your mistakes, and apologizing for them. The value of trying to repair, at least to some extent, the damage that was done, and to give the wife peace of mind that comes from knowing the truth, and knowing that the OW is no longer a threat. I'm stating my opinion about the value of honesty, just like most of the rest of you are stating your opinion about not disclosing. That's what this forum is about--getting other people's perspectives, and then deciding for oneself what to do. So that's what I'm providing, just like the rest of you are--my perspective. Most of the posters on this thread are giving their opinions based on the perspective of the OW. I'm giving mine based on both--OW and BS.

 

 

I am standing up and owning what I did and I am taking full responsilbility for what I did and said in this whole mess. I dont think however, its my place to inform her of what is going on. He may or may not have said anything to her. I dont know because I cannot trust anything he has told me now.

 

Sooner or later the truth will always come out. IF she comes looking for me, I will be honest. That is all I can say about that for right now.

[TurningTables]

So, uh...with all this philosophising on the ethics of "the truth" and who should be the one to deliver it, I have a question for you TT...

 

What next?

 

Do you have a clear and concise plan of where to go from this? I can tell you that "slowly get over my MM despite this setback, and move on with my life" is a pretty vague plan.

 

I think that a clear-cut list would help you focus on where you want to be. Say, by next year.

 

 

What is next? NC is next. I was already moving to put this behind me and I will get there. Hopefully sooner than later.

[browndog319]

My MM told his wife on both DDays after she read Emails between us (he offers me virtual TLC and wants to virtually spoon me all night!!!!) that we are just good work pals... Seriously.

 

They are apparently in MC. I only know about 2 sessions. And some notebook she gets to write down questions in and he has to answer. We haven't spoken on the phone in nearly 2 weeks. Of course, the last time we spoke I hung up on him and told him to go to hell. He has continued to Email me every few days. I don't know what is going on with things right now and I'm trying to move on.

 

I have another thread on this so won't hijack, but I suspect she doesn't fully believe him due to her monitoring my FB page, LinkedIn and I have suspicious hang ups on my cell and landlines that had previously not happened.

 

I realize now by him lying about our relationship and not admitting to his alleged feelings, he may not have cared about me quite as much as he claimed, or at a minimum, wants to keep me on the back burner while he placates his wife. Then he'll pick things up, pick me up like a toy he forgot about.

 

Stay mad - he's a wuss and it stinks that your family is blaming you. Don't contact his BS. It's up to him to deal with, and hopefully she'll see through his lying. Work on telling your family the truth. Take care of yourself.

[TurningTables]

Hey. I hope you are feeling somewhat better.

 

I was thinking when I read your post about him telling the wife ... I am really thinking he told her that you have a crush on him, that he has been friendly to you, but you mistakenly thought that his friendliness was interest. He probably told his wife that he befriended you because you were always alone and he felt like you needed a friend. When he realized you wanted more than friends, he told you that he was happily married and tried to distance himself from you

 

I am glad a family member said something to you ... Because now you are good and angry and IF his wife calls, you won't play protector of him. You will give your view of the situation, which I am sure is totally different than his

 

Now, do NOT beat yourself up! You stopped things from going further than an EA, you respected yourself enough to put an end to it...can you imagine if you had stayed longer in the affair? Can you imagine if you conti Jed to wait on a coward?

 

You stand tall, with your head held high. You believed a liar. But you now know what a jerk he really is and you are putting things in your life back in order! I am very proud of you!!!

 

 

**HUGS**

 

When I think of how I wanted him a month or two ago, I cringe. I am glad that I made the decision to stop it. That decision was started by finding this site and reading all these wonderful intelligent women's post about their own heartbreak. I never thought Id be one of them. I thought that I was giving him space and that he respected me by NOT sleeping with me so that we really could one day be together when all is said and done. You have no idea how much I wanted to ask him today what he said to her about me..etc..etc..but I didnt.Something inside of me just stopped. I thought about everything Ive learned in the past three months. I realized that it dosent matter. Its done.

 

Its truly time to move on and thankfully, I had already started that process. I dont think Im back to square one, if anything, its made me know I made the right decisions. Everyting that has happen in the past couple of days is going to help me in the long run.

 

I want to thank everyone who posted and gave their thoughts, ideas and opinions. It meant alot.

[MissBee]

My MM told his wife on both DDays after she read Emails between us (he offers me virtual TLC and wants to virtually spoon me all night!!!!) that we are just good work pals... Seriously.

 

They are apparently in MC. I only know about 2 sessions. And some notebook she gets to write down questions in and he has to answer. We haven't spoken on the phone in nearly 2 weeks. Of course, the last time we spoke I hung up on him and told him to go to hell. He has continued to Email me every few days. I don't know what is going on with things right now and I'm trying to move on.

 

I have another thread on this so won't hijack, but I suspect she doesn't fully believe him due to her monitoring my FB page, LinkedIn and I have suspicious hang ups on my cell and landlines that had previously not happened.

I realize now by him lying about our relationship and not admitting to his alleged feelings, he may not have cared about me quite as much as he claimed, or at a minimum, wants to keep me on the back burner while he placates his wife. Then he'll pick things up, pick me up like a toy he forgot about.

Stay mad - he's a wuss and it stinks that your family is blaming you. Don't contact his BS. It's up to him to deal with, and hopefully she'll see through his lying. Work on telling your family the truth. Take care of yourself.

 

 

Smh....what a mess. It brings to mind a topic for another thread.

[KathyM]

Your 1st sentence is the key here..........because you are assuming that the BS would believe an ow. That thinking is faulty and the rest of your post follows that assumption.

 

Wisernow started a new thread about this subject. Let's take it there.

Maybe the BS will believe the OW, maybe she won't. But at least she'll realize there is something wrong that needs investigating, and is not just allowed to live her life in darkness with a man that cannot be trusted. Very doubtful that the MM will ever own up to the truth. The OW may very well be the only way the BS will ever get the truth. Whether it is believed has a lot to do with how it is delivered. In the case of my sister, the BS did believe us when we told her.

[KathyM]

Yes, Kathy,

 

I get the point that the BS may not get the truth. Why is it up to the OW/OM to reveal anything? She's married to the person. I personally, wouldn't be involved in a marriage if I couldn't trust the person I was married to. I just don't get your thinking.

 

If the BS knows the truth (or the version he or her gives), decides to stay with the WS, then it's on them. The OW/OM's input adds nothing.

As I said in a prior post, there is a great likelihood that if the OW remains silent, the affair may never be known. The BS doesn't know that her husband can't be trusted. She would be living her life thinking everything is fine, or getting some scewed side to the story that the MM had used to lie his way out of taking responsibility. That's not fair to the wife. It takes away her choices in life. It keeps her in darkness, and that's never a good position to be in.

[KathyM]

I absolutely understand what you are standing up for, but unless if you walked in one of those shoes, it's easy to say what you think is the right thing to do. Your approach is heavy handed. Aren't you training to be a therapist?

I may not have been an OW or a BS, but I lived it with my sisters, one of them my twin sister, whom I'm very close to. When I have to hear and witness first hand, in your face, results of the damage that an affair causes to all parties concerned, I get a pretty good concept of the dynamics involved and the thinking involved from all sides. Yes, I am training to be a marriage therapist to try to help couples to get their marriage back on track. In fact, I have read in many places in my studies the importance of getting everything out in the open about the affair. All the sordid details, because only then, can the marital relationship start to heal and trust can start to be restored. When the truth is not told, there will always be doubts about what actually happened, and it impedes the healing of the relationship. I would be counseling couples, not AP. And I am very qualified in that regard, since I've managed to hold my marriage together for many years, and am still with my original husband, whom I have a great relationship with. But I've seen so much of what goes on in marriages from my friends and relatives, that I also get a concept of the dynamics and the struggles that married couples deal with on a daily basis. It gives me a perspective that would be helpful.