Wife is about to make it physical.

[IzzyB]

Sorry if I missed this but how old is your youngest?

[Vanhandle]

@whichwayisup - yes she is and yes she will! Sad really.

 

@Izzy - she turned 3 last Sunday.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Vanhandle

[StoneCold]

There isn't much of a back story here. We got so tangled up with daily routines on top of a newborn that we drifted apart. We neglected each others needs and I think she took it harder. I totally agree with you that her "weird" behaviour is just that...weird! In other words very uncharacteristic and it seems like she relishes to torment me. Might very well be that subconsciously she's making me pay for her unmet needs, the drifting apart in our relationship, etc. I honestly don't know. I do agree that sometimes it seems like something got screwed up in her head, because her recklessness is really bizarre. I even told her recently that she's sloppy. I said it right after I caught her in a lie. Weird.

 

I really appreciate your perspective, StoneCold.

 

Ontario (GTA)

 

No worries....

 

 

Its nice to run into a fellow GTA bretheren here

[itmustbeme]

There isn't much of a back story here. We got so tangled up with daily routines on top of a newborn that we drifted apart. We neglected each others needs and I think she took it harder. I totally agree with you that her "weird" behaviour is just that...weird! In other words very uncharacteristic and it seems like she relishes to torment me. Might very well be that subconsciously she's making me pay for her unmet needs, the drifting apart in our relationship, etc. I honestly don't know. I do agree that sometimes it seems like something got screwed up in her head, because her recklessness is really bizarre. I even told her recently that she's sloppy. I said it right after I caught her in a lie. Weird.

 

I really appreciate your perspective, StoneCold.

 

Ontario (GTA)

 

Hi Van:

 

After seeing this well I just wanted to expand on what you said. Don't beat yourself up on not meeting each other needs. It happens in a lot of marriages but it is how we deal with it. Your wife has decided that it is much more fun to find it in other men. She gets the thrill of the new love. Remember that feeling when you were young and met your wife? That is what she thinks she has found now.

 

Now she also neglected you in the marriage. Why did you not go out and start banging women on the side? Well among other things you knew that was not the way to deal with the issue. Your wife thinks so little of you that even knowing her husband asked her to not go she felt that this other man was more important. Just think she just met this guy and he is more important than her husband.

 

Now my brother just went through a divorce. His wife was cheating on him and well she was a bitch. My brother found out and then the war began. He knew she was going to see him in another state and she lied and left anyway. He then went to a lawyer and had her served when she returned. He did not take her phone calls after she left. She was furious with him for filing.

 

She got him removed from his home. He had that home before she married him. Tried to file molestation charges against him. My brother had a voice recorder with him at all times and it saved his butt. They are now divorced but the ending of this is not sad for my brother.

 

He has custody of his daughter. Well it turned out she wanted to be with her new guy so bad she decided that he was more important than her own daughter. This often happens when people start cheating and they think the Other Person is so fantastic. The persons spouse does not stand a chance when you compare them to a new person.

 

My mother did the same thing. She left my dad and abandoned my family. I have not seen her since.

 

The biggest mistake you made was letting your wife go off on vacations like this without you. Unless I am not remembering your story right she was going to places without you with a friend that is a serial cheater on her husband. This could have only ended bad for you. Just think if her friend could get your wife to cheat with other guys there is no way she would ever betray her. Honestly you did not stand a chance. You two drifted away from each other.

[Vanhandle]

@StoneCold - Yeah seems like all the fun is in the GTA, eh?

 

I think I need to clarify the issue regarding her previous trips. She's only been on these trips without me 3 times. Once with a very good friend, who as far as I know is a no-nonsense kind of woman. Second time was with her dance group of 15 people. This last trip in March where all this **** started was the only time she went with her "faithful" friend. Just thought I'd clear that up.

 

Question to my fellow Canadians (or anyone familiar with Canadian divorce) - is the evidence obtained thru a PI legally admissible in divorce proceedings or can she somehow have it excluded under the guise of "invasion of privacy"? I know a lawyer can answer this and other questions but I thought someone here can shed some light on what can or cannot be done legally in this kind of situation. For example, I know for sure that I cannot use the taped conversations as proof because its illegal to record a conversation that I am not part of...so that's a no go.

 

Much appreciated.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Vanhandle

[Vanhandle]

@itmustbe - Yes it seems that reason and rationality is thrown out the window in most cheating cases. Its amazing how the cheaters are so selfish. Its me, me, me. No offense StoneCold but I'm referring to my situation.

 

Itmustbe, I'm sorry to hear about what your brother had to go thru and also what your mom did to your family. I always believe that whatever happens in life, happens for a reason.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Van, as said, once you are up to 50 posts, you are able to send private messages too. So keep posting.

 

How you holding up? You did nothing wrong letting her indulge on these trips (my spouse does the same). Time away is good for a marriage as it allows both of you to recharge, concentrate on things for yourself and miss each other. Funny thing is I think women often need it more then men.

 

The fact your wife took it to the extreme and has a friend encouraging this behaviour is reprehensible.

 

As for proof, there'll be plenty. Walking to rooms, holding hands, sneaking into someone else's room (or him into hers), dancing, kissing... I don't think there is any chance you won't get what you need.

 

As for divorce laws, I doubt it will mean a lot. What it will do is pressure her, give you peace of mind and friends and family will not come down on you, nor will she turn it on you and claim you made it up and were paranoid.

[StoneCold]

@itmustbe - Yes it seems that reason and rationality is thrown out the window in most cheating cases. Its amazing how the cheaters are so selfish. Its me, me, me. No offense StoneCold but I'm referring to my situation.

 

 

None taken...

 

In just about every kind of situation there are the reasonable and unreasonable to varying degrees

[StoneCold]

Question to my fellow Canadians (or anyone familiar with Canadian divorce) - is the evidence obtained thru a PI legally admissible in divorce proceedings or can she somehow have it excluded under the guise of "invasion of privacy"? I know a lawyer can answer this and other questions but I thought someone here can shed some light on what can or cannot be done legally in this kind of situation. For example, I know for sure that I cannot use the taped conversations as proof because its illegal to record a conversation that I am not part of...so that's a no go.

 

Much appreciated.

 

 

As for this... I'm not a lawyer so I cant give you a definitive....

 

But I'd think evidence gathered from a PI would be admissible...otherwise that would render them kinda "useless" out side of being an under-cover glorified mall cop. But I thought you said the PI was for your own personal requirements... because I really dont think the PI will get more than you got on your own which is pretty good on its own..

[Try]

I think I need to clarify the issue regarding her previous trips. She's only been on these trips without me 3 times. Once with a very good friend, who as far as I know is a no-nonsense kind of woman. Second time was with her dance group of 15 people. This last trip in March where all this **** started was the only time she went with her "faithful" friend. Just thought I'd clear that up.

There was nothing wrong with you being OK with her going on trips with her girl friends. Most wives take such trips. If there was ever any question in your mind on this, put it out of your mind.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

There was nothing wrong with you being OK with her going on trips with her girl friends. Most wives take such trips. If there was ever any question in your mind on this, put it out of your mind.

 

Agreed.... How sad talking to your wife as if she is a child telling her this new Friend is a bad influence.

 

Have you talked to her at all yet? Is she texting or worried at all about the kids?

[Steadfast]

I went back to the beginning and read your posts again Van, just to get it clear. Obviously, you've been given lots of advice (including mine) but I went back to see if there was something that I missed. Something that would indicate she may not be doing what everyone assumes she is. My conclusion hasn't changed; if what you've written is true, she's gone. IMO.

 

To repeat what others have said, it is easy to come up with 'excuses' for cheating. The actions of any spouse will provide sufficient material. Gone too much? Cheat. Too lonely. Home too much? Cheat. Too clingy and not motivated. Live in a nice house, nice cars? Too materialistic. Old dirty house, crap car? I can't live like this. Have kids? A mortgage? Both work?

 

Cheat. Cheat. Cheat.

 

The bottom line, you can't win playing the cheater's game. It's a lose-lose. Just don't fall for the lie. Rather than admit that their love is false and they're shallow, it's easier to blame shift and live in denial. Bury it deep enough, and maybe no one will ever really know. But that too will fail...

 

I'm not an expert on Canadian divorce law, or any law for that matter, but if it's anything like the USA or Europe, 'proof' of cheating isn't really a factor anymore. The focus will be on the kids, wages, living arrangement and support. Most judges will not (or don't want to) get into 'moral' issues.

 

I understand you want proof. I believe you already have it. Your call. Just don't allow this to become a crutch in delaying what you fear most; losing her. I've said this before but here it is one more time; you already have. Still, she might need you for something...what if the romance falls through? What if she changes her mind? She'll use you for as long as you allow her to.

 

I have no more advice to give until you trade words and threats for real action. But I (and like others here it seems) take special note of your situation because I've lived it. Same car, different color. I survived it. Things got better for us when I took control of my life and stopped being torn, swayed and destroyed by her actions. She wasn't thinking of me (and admitted it) or loving me, so someone had to. That someone was me.

 

Here for you via PM when you have the posts to qualify. Keep breathing-

Edited August 8, 2011 by Steadfast

[scaredandalone1223]

If I were you I would take the time while she is gone to pack up everything in the house that belongs to her. Put it all at the front door and have some separation papers on top. Even if they are just handwritten have something showing you are serious, you will not stand for her behavior anymore and you plan to fight tooth and nail for your children. She needs a wake up call and a BIG ONE!

[StoneCold]

I'm not an expert on Canadian divorce law, or any law for that matter, but if it's anything like the USA or Europe, 'proof' of cheating isn't really a factor anymore. The focus will be on the kids, wages, living arrangement and support. Most judges will not (or don't want to) get into 'moral' issues.

 

 

 

This is what I beleive I was trying to tell Van earlier. All infidelity is is a grounds for divorce....all it means is that he wouldnt have to be separated for a year and file under "irreconcilable differences". Courts could give a rats ass about who cheated on who and whos feelings got hurt....

 

The Canadian system is very similar to the US....

 

The focus as you said will be on division of assets, determining if support is warranted and if so how much and the KIDS; Thats what the courts are most concerned about. The courts are going to focus on what it beleives to be the best interest of the kids and this will likely be joint legal custody at the very least with some sort of child support payable to the physical custodial parent. (mind you the courts would rather joint legal AND physical but thats hard to organize between two warring factions)

[Chi townD]

Well, hopefully Van will give us an update as he's supposed to see the lawyer today. Still wondering if he's keeping contact with his WW when she texts or if he's ignoring her all together (which I hope he's doing).

[Tech_E]

If I am not mistaken, that if you have verifiable proof of an affair you won't have to wait the 1 year to divorce; it can begin in 3 months.

 

Just let your lawyer lead you.

 

How are you holding up Van?

[lordWilhelm]

I just read the whole thread from the beginning. Van, I cannot believe how callous and self-centred your wife has been through this episode. You deserve a lot better than that, and you should get all the support you can get. I hope you found a lawyer and should probably file very soon so you can put all this nonsense behind you and get your life back on track.

[Vanhandle]

Sorry for disappearing but I was pretty tied up. I am also so exhausted physically and mentally due to a moody teenager and one hell of a hyperactive toddler, but also because I didn’t want to think about this stuff. So far I’m doing well...I think. I worked on myself mentally and can honestly say that I don’t care if he nails her every minute from now until she returns. I even intentionally visualize what acts they might be doing and it’s not hurting as much as it did a week ago. I had been with numerous women before meeting her and have to say that with her it was the most passionate, sensual and exciting period of my life. So I know what she will be doing in moments of passion. I realize that at some point it will hit me hard, but for now I am coping by getting angry and thinking about the next phase in my life. I’ll be honest though, it’s damn scary.

 

The PI confirmed visual contact (room number, etc…) and will be documenting everything. I hope he gets the goods coz I really want to lay it on her when I call it quits.

 

Someone asked if we’re texting. Yes we are because of the kids, domestic stuff, etc…I am not that cruel to prevent contact between a mother and her child. That’s just me. She is paranoid though. I asked her something yesterday and she snapped back “Are you checking up on me?!” …so I hope the PI’s cover doesn’t get blown.

 

I spoke to the lawyer and he concurred that based on his experience, she’s GONE. He said that in similar cases he’s dealt with, the woman almost always sponsors the guy to come over…but then in a cruel twist of karma, he dumps her instantly. He asked me if I want custody of the kids if she decides to live with him and I said absolutely. He advised that I wait for the PI evidence so that I am completely satisfied that I want to proceed. I understand where he’s coming from. The law was amended very recently, stipulating that lawyers are now obligated to advise clients to really try reconciliation prior to divorce.

 

Funny…well, not really…I just realized that the age difference between her and the guy (17 yrs) is exactly how long we’ve been together. Interesting and cruel symbolism, eh? Maybe it’s some sort of sign. I don’t know…only time will tell.

 

 

 

Appreciate the support as always. Will keep you posted.

[Tech_E]

Vanhandle first and foremost you are doing the right thing. You are a father first.

 

Have you spoken to any family or friends about this yet?

 

I personally hope you grind your boot into her and rid yourself of this selfish woman. You are following the advice of your lawyer and that is a good thing.

 

Stay strong.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Don't tell me she went for 2 weeks????

 

Worried about you and visualizing stuff. Not sure that is good.....

 

PI sounds like he has what you need.

 

Stay strong.

[Chi townD]

You wrote that the PI had contact? What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that he identify who your wife was or did he confirm that he's seen them together?

 

Yeah, I agree that under the circumstances, you're doing great. Keep caring for those kids. They're gonna need your support more than you know. So, the lawyer feel confident that you can get custody of the kids?

[The Blue Knight]

Van, watching you go through this is taking me back to times I'd rather not relive. Rest assured there is life after this and there are decent women out there who will not treat you like this. I think it is scary for anyone to think about the "unknown" but what's worse, taking back a woman who has treated you with the greatest contempt possible to a marriage, or taking your chances on a whole new and exciting relationship? I AM MUCH happier with my current wife. She's content with me and I can honestly say wouldn't even be capable of cheating on me and this is after 15 years together. We've had other issues but we've worked through them and seem to be doing very good right now.

 

I agree with your lawyer. Your wife is gone. I've seen this as a law enforcement officer as well many times. Attempts to reconcile end up just more miserable down the road. And the trust factor for you will never return 100%. Personally, I would be reinforcing to her on the phone that you've already taken the steps you told her you would to end the marriage. Unless there's a tactical or legal reason I'm overlooking, to me, putting the kobosh on her "good times" in Cuba would be worthwhile to me.

 

It would always be in the back of her head 24/7 that she's about to lose her husband and her family when she returns to Canada for the remainder of her trip. But that's a decision you must make. For my money, it would be worth messing with her newly found libido for this Cuban piece of garbage as much as possible.

 

Sorry for disappearing but I was pretty tied up. I am also so exhausted physically and mentally due to a moody teenager and one hell of a hyperactive toddler, but also because I didn’t want to think about this stuff. So far I’m doing well...I think. I worked on myself mentally and can honestly say that I don’t care if he nails her every minute from now until she returns. I even intentionally visualize what acts they might be doing and it’s not hurting as much as it did a week ago. I had been with numerous women before meeting her and have to say that with her it was the most passionate, sensual and exciting period of my life. So I know what she will be doing in moments of passion. I realize that at some point it will hit me hard, but for now I am coping by getting angry and thinking about the next phase in my life. I’ll be honest though, it’s damn scary.

 

The PI confirmed visual contact (room number, etc…) and will be documenting everything. I hope he gets the goods coz I really want to lay it on her when I call it quits.

 

Someone asked if we’re texting. Yes we are because of the kids, domestic stuff, etc…I am not that cruel to prevent contact between a mother and her child. That’s just me. She is paranoid though. I asked her something yesterday and she snapped back “Are you checking up on me?!” …so I hope the PI’s cover doesn’t get blown.

 

I spoke to the lawyer and he concurred that based on his experience, she’s GONE. He said that in similar cases he’s dealt with, the woman almost always sponsors the guy to come over…but then in a cruel twist of karma, he dumps her instantly. He asked me if I want custody of the kids if she decides to live with him and I said absolutely. He advised that I wait for the PI evidence so that I am completely satisfied that I want to proceed. I understand where he’s coming from. The law was amended very recently, stipulating that lawyers are now obligated to advise clients to really try reconciliation prior to divorce.

 

Funny…well, not really…I just realized that the age difference between her and the guy (17 yrs) is exactly how long we’ve been together. Interesting and cruel symbolism, eh? Maybe it’s some sort of sign. I don’t know…only time will tell.

 

 

 

Appreciate the support as always. Will keep you posted.

Edited August 9, 2011 by The Blue Knight

[Memphis Raines]

This is what I beleive I was trying to tell Van earlier. All infidelity is is a grounds for divorce....all it means is that he wouldnt have to be separated for a year and file under "irreconcilable differences". Courts could give a rats ass about who cheated on who and whos feelings got hurt.

 

and separation and "irreconcilable differences" are pretty much a joke as anyone can come up with grounds for a divorce.

 

the failsafe is "mental cruelty". all one spouse has to do is claim mental cruelty and there are your grounds. They don't have to prove it at all. And even if asked, even stupid things like raising your voice during an argument can be considered mental cruelty.

[Memphis Raines]

If I am not mistaken, that if you have verifiable proof of an affair you won't have to wait the 1 year to divorce; it can begin in 3 months.

 

 

or just claim mental cruelty. you don't need proof, trust me, I know.

[StoneCold]

Sorry for disappearing but I was pretty tied up. I am also so exhausted physically and mentally due to a moody teenager and one hell of a hyperactive toddler, but also because I didn’t want to think about this stuff. So far I’m doing well...I think. I worked on myself mentally and can honestly say that I don’t care if he nails her every minute from now until she returns. I even intentionally visualize what acts they might be doing and it’s not hurting as much as it did a week ago. I had been with numerous women before meeting her and have to say that with her it was the most passionate, sensual and exciting period of my life. So I know what she will be doing in moments of passion. I realize that at some point it will hit me hard, but for now I am coping by getting angry and thinking about the next phase in my life. I’ll be honest though, it’s damn scary.

 

The PI confirmed visual contact (room number, etc…) and will be documenting everything. I hope he gets the goods coz I really want to lay it on her when I call it quits.

 

Someone asked if we’re texting. Yes we are because of the kids, domestic stuff, etc…I am not that cruel to prevent contact between a mother and her child. That’s just me. She is paranoid though. I asked her something yesterday and she snapped back “Are you checking up on me?!” …so I hope the PI’s cover doesn’t get blown.

 

I spoke to the lawyer and he concurred that based on his experience, she’s GONE. He said that in similar cases he’s dealt with, the woman almost always sponsors the guy to come over…but then in a cruel twist of karma, he dumps her instantly. He asked me if I want custody of the kids if she decides to live with him and I said absolutely. He advised that I wait for the PI evidence so that I am completely satisfied that I want to proceed. I understand where he’s coming from. The law was amended very recently, stipulating that lawyers are now obligated to advise clients to really try reconciliation prior to divorce.

 

Funny…well, not really…I just realized that the age difference between her and the guy (17 yrs) is exactly how long we’ve been together. Interesting and cruel symbolism, eh? Maybe it’s some sort of sign. I don’t know…only time will tell.

 

 

 

Appreciate the support as always. Will keep you posted.

 

 

Once you're ready let me know...I'll point out some places you can "blow off some steam"...mwuahahahaha