Wife is about to make it physical.

[Trimmer]

It's pretty obvious that I understand the concept that bears don't get counseling because of their inability to hibernate and lions don't get ridiculed for not stalking an elk and bears don't become social outcast from other bears for not catching fish because of their phobia of water, and that monogomy is not natural to the human animal.

That is all great.

 

You talked about the solidity of your own relationship being based upon a very clear and specific mutual agreement, yes?

 

Do you understand that the proximate issue here for the OP is the one of their mutual agreement being broken unilaterally without discussion or negotiation of a new agreement, and not "how should they have originally structured their marriage?"

[Woggle]

I don't disagree, except to say that the "boundaries" are ones foisted upon us by society. We don't always live up to them in many areas of life, marriage is no different.

 

If a person does not want to live by the rules of marriage than don't get married. It's something that George Clooney and others like him have figured our quite easily but other people seem to think they deserve the security of a spouse while they go out and cheat on them left and right. I believe in honesty.

[dreamingoftigers]

If those boundaries worked so well in your marriage, why are you having divorce talks. It seems as though that isn't the magic solution after all.

[Dreama_70]

Quite honestly it is BS. You are implying that a man who has done nothing to deserve just sit there and forgive what she has done to him. I would say the same thing if it were a woman being cheated on. An honest open relationship is fine but to lie to and betray somebody that trusts you is just a disgusting act in my book.

 

If you look at it from that perspective then it might make sense, but the truth is that we are forced to lie and betray because of societies expectations. Personally I don't think infidelity means she doesn't love her husband anymore than having more than one friend means you don't love the others. I would hate a life where I could choose only one friend and then have only that friend for the rest of my life. My friends are all different and I get different things from each of them. No one can be your everything and it's a BS expectation.

[Trimmer]

I don't disagree, except to say that the "boundaries" are ones foisted upon us by society. We don't always live up to them in many areas of life, marriage is no different.

So if there are boundaries that society "foists" upon us, and I shake hands with you and look you in the eye, and say with all my heart that I agree to follow those, then when I decide I need to secretly break them, I can just shrug my shoulders and say "Oh well, I'm human and those were society's boundaries, not mine...."

 

Whether they came from society, from the bible, from their families, or whether they think they were the first clever ones to invent them, they were boundaries that were agreed upon by both parties, ostensibly clear-thinking adults who reached a mutual understanding.

 

And once those agreed-upon boundaries no longer worked for the wife, she had the absolutely free choice of (a) deceiving her husband and breaking their understanding in secret, or (b) talking it over, regnegotiating the agreement, or dissolving the marriage respectfully if they could not reach a new understanding.

 

My point is that (b) would have been the more human, humane approach, and (a) is the approach of a weakling.

[Dreama_70]

If those boundaries worked so well in your marriage, why are you having divorce talks. It seems as though that isn't the magic solution after all.

 

It works very well for my husband, but those were MY rules for him, not his for me, he still has a very "old school" way of thinking about gender roles and he is quite happy in our marriage. And yet, when our counselor asked us to name one couple that had a great marriage and one couple that had a bad marriage, we could not think of one couple we knew that had a "great" marriage -> WE would be that answer for most of the couples we know. I love my husband but I am no longer committed to having "shared" goals with him because those "shared" goals ultimately end up being mostly his goals. And the longer I stay the more my own personal goals seem to be moving out of reach.

[2011aug]

Maybe he doesn't need to change his wife (which is impossible anyway), maybe he just needs to change his mind. We have control over no one but ourselves.

 

So he cant change his wife, why should he need to change himself to adapt to a cheating wife? That's just wrong.

 

But he can change his environment.

[reboot]

I don't get why so many posters are here for no other apparent reason than to go around hijacking every thread they can.

[Calif_hope]

How about this, I dare you all to not post on this thread until Van post again - if he does. Those of you chomping at the bit to share your superior rightious opinions - take them to another thread so your brain won't explode.

 

Van, sorry dude, what happened to your thread is not what this forum is about. Some people don't have a life and hide behind anaminity.

 

Wish the best for you and your kids

[2011aug]

I don't disagree, except to say that the "boundaries" are ones foisted upon us by society. We don't always live up to them in many areas of life, marriage is no different.

 

yeah, these boundaries just gets in the way. Prison are full of people who dont like the boundaries foisted on them by society.

[bentnotbroken]

LOL, I couldn't agree more. She's going through a mid-life crisis. Tired of the grind, tired of seeing dreams disappear, tired of being tired, tired of the same isht different day. I swear if I thought my husband would just let me have an affair on the side we probably wouldn't be in divorce talks right now.

 

And for all of you men out there, when I married my husband 15 years ago, I didn't even ask him for fidelity, for a lot of reason; one being that monogamy isn't even natural to the human animal. What I asked him for was THIS:

 

1. Never bring drama in my life. Let chicky know I'm number one. I don't want to see it or hear it. No phone calls at my house, no disrespect in the streets, no underwear in the cars. bblah blah

 

2. Don't bring anything else home either ->strap it up.

 

3. Don't fck with my money, do you out of your allowance I don't care if she has to go half on the room. I WILL NOT go into debt or be paying for fancy gifts and trips to the spa that I DON'T GET. Take care of house first, what you have left over is yours.

 

caveat - If it ever comes to my attention that you are having an affair then that's an automatic "get some dck free" card.

 

In 15 years I have never had reason to believe my husband has cheated. That doesn't mean he hasn't, almost every man we know has/does, but I've never had a reason to suspect it. I don't look for it either. He goes out with friends about once a week and he sometimes travels to the south to visit his family and old friends without me. I have never had the urge to check his cellphone or email acts. I know women that have driven themselves crazy chasing after a man trying to make sure he wasn't cheating, they find their evidence that he is and then try to prevent it from happening again. They have ALL gotten (or in one case, are getting) a divorce.

 

My advice to Van - let her have it. She'll grow tired of it soon enough. If you make it an issue, she'll leave. She may regret it terribly as an afterthought but right now the only thing she cares about is having her outlet.

 

 

And for those that will call you a "cuckold" or other such nonsense ->just check out their bitter divorce stories and feel their anger and resentment, I bet more than one wish they had done the same thing. You certainly wouldn't be the only man to do it, and women have been doing it forever.

 

 

Well isn't this a brilliant take on things?

[Woggle]

Well isn't this a brilliant take on things?

 

Is that sarcasm or are you serious?

[bentnotbroken]

where did Van disappear to? Is he so sensitive that the derogatory discussion got to him? Honestly, given his rhetoric from the past week, I would of thought he'd be around here to defend himself! I guess I find that extremely disappointing.

 

??????Defend what??????

[bentnotbroken]

Is that sarcasm or are you serious?

 

 

Woggle you know me. I just get put on the naughty step when I use certain faces too much.

[dreamingoftigers]

Is that sarcasm or are you serious?

 

Given BNB's stance on infidelity I bet she is totally serious

Taken her angry black woman stance to a whole new open marriage level :rolleyes:

[Woggle]

Woggle you know me. I just get put on the naughty step when I use certain faces too much.

 

I thought it was sarcasm. I find it funny though to read some of the women's responses in this thread compared to the other thread where women were condoning using physical violence against a cheating man.

[Dreama_70]

I'm not sure if some of you posters are being passive/aggressive about "hijacking" a post, if you're talking to me, I got my big girl panties on, just call be by name. I came on here to offer MY advice and persepctive to Van and was then engaged in a conversation by other posters, if that's not the way this internet forum works then that's all good, you can just say that or point me to the FORUM SOPs. You never know, it might be EXACTLY the advice he needs, but since you all it "all figured out" I let you prattle on and I imagine that the infidelity and divorce statistics will be taking a dive here in the near future. lol

 

In response to the others about mutualy agreed upon yadda yadda -

The system is set up to reward certain behaviors and punish others. Don't get me wrong, I understand that "the system" is an inanimate thing created by humans, but laws and social approval are why we do a LOT of what we do. Many of us don’t agree with some or most of them but we're just often too afraid to express it for fear, which is the reason for things like holocaust, domestic violence, caste systems, catholic church abuse, thin blue line, whistelblower laws, inner-city violence, female castration and on and on. Most women and men know that a request for an “open marriage” would be a nonstarter.

There are many types of relationships between humans, friendship, sexual love (unmarried), family relations, community relations (church, neighborhoods, organizations), co-worker relationships, business partnerships, room mates, etc. People change and grow out of any of these all of the time, a marriage is no different.

"Marriage” is another name for RELATIONSHIP – it is NOT it’s own separate entity. There is a legal commitment in the eyes of the gov, mostly defined as an agreement to enter into an adult relationship with the expectation of sex, children/family (possible), and shared resources (home, finance, etc). The only difference between a marriage and a relationship with all of those things, but without formal legal standing is – the legal standing in the eyes of the gov and possibly a commitment to your diety.

[bentnotbroken]

I thought it was sarcasm. I find it funny though to read some of the women's responses in this thread compared to the other thread where women were condoning using physical violence against a cheating man.

 

 

Yes, Woggle I am a sarcastic angry black woman:laugh:

[Dreama_70]

yeah, these boundaries just gets in the way. Prison are full of people who dont like the boundaries foisted on them by society.

 

Grave yards are full of children who have died because of our "social mores and boundaries".

[Barrsitter]

Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.

[Dreama_70]

Van, best of luck to you and your family. My advice is you can't "change" your wife, so please don't spend too much mental energy or anguish on that, you can only change yourself, in anyway you deem necessary.

[John Michael Kane]

I don't get why so many posters are here for no other apparent reason than to go around hijacking every thread they can.

 

No one here is "hijacking" this thread, they're just stating their take on this.

[Severely Unamused]

This is all so amusingly pretentious.

 

This feels more like a narrative than one man's outlet. I have a distinct feeling that you have all been trolled.

 

Of course, that is only my opinion. Not meant to offend anyone.

[zebrack25]

Wow, I leave this thread alone for a day and plenty of new pages of comments. I think everyone here needs to take a deep breath;

 

1.) Everyone is going to have their own perspective on what marriage suits them best. There was another thread about a married couple that became closer after having threesomes. Say what you have to say that you think will help Van. If you have a disagreement with someone, don't overload this thread arguing.

 

2.) Dreama, thank you for your input. This is an infidelity thread, and as such, you posting about an open marriage will get under people's skin. Don't take any posts personally, as your views are going to get under people's skin. I disagree with some of your views on marriage, and if you would like to set up a thread, I would be glad to debate you on the topic.

 

3.) There is a difference between "tough love" and rude and degrading posts. Calling Van a coward and expecting him to defend himself on LS isn't going to help him in any way. I'm sure this site is the last thing on his mind right now, and I think he's handled it well so far considering his circumstances.

 

4.) Stone Cold, Trimmer, Tech, Dreaming, and anyone else I missed, keep contributing your perspectives and views for Van, if/when he comes back.

 

5.) I'm pretty sure everything I just stated was obvious

[Dreama_70]

This is all so amusingly pretentious.

 

This feels more like a narrative than one man's outlet. I have a distinct feeling that you have all been trolled.

 

Of course, that is only my opinion. Not meant to offend anyone.

 

Wow, I thought I was the only one who got that vibe. No offense for sure but there is a certain level of build up.