krokodil_Gena Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I dont get why many of you keep going back to Van telling all the family and friends. Family and friends arent a part of this marriage and I fail to see what it would do for him. Because it will come up once separation process gets started. The one who *mentions* it first will have the better opportunity to present that side. The other one would cave to disprove and make a counter story, but by then ppl wil not be as reseptive. Just trust me on this. And I believe initially the idea was to embarass her?? And dont send the other man an email thats ghey....its not like he would give a rats ass anyways and you'll just end up looking like a punk Exactly, I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Sorry, that's just not true. Family and friends are an integral part of any marriage. Most marriage books will tell you to surround yourself with other happily married couples, they are a support line for your own marriage. Notice what kind of friends Van's wife has surrounded herself with?. Environment plays a big part in just about everything... but your family and friends dont sleep with your spouse, fight with you spouse, arent financially linked to your spouse....in the end of the day it gets down to the two of you Exposing in this case is about getting support from family and friends. He's going to need it now, and she shouldn't have it. He needs to make sure they know the truth because she's already proven she will LIE and LIE and LIE some more. Should he give her the opportunity to convince everyone in their life that this is all his fault, to ruin his support system? I promise she'll try to do just that. Ok I should have clarified... Telling them because you want someone to talk to or just as a "you should probably know that we are splitting up...." sort of thing....fine. But many here are suggesting that he get his family and friends involved in some sort of a divorce "one up" game which IMHO is not advisable. If the family and friends have any sort of sense they will get BOTH sides of the story; then and only then will a decision on their part be made. Let the chips fall as they will....it will indicate to you whos got your back and who doesnt Edited August 5, 2011 by StoneCold Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 unconscionable, but that does not mean divorce is always the end result. We don't and neither does Van know what will be the final result. He has been shook to the core and everyone telling him what to do about his marriage is often misplaced and sometimes nasty. He still loves his wife and family and it is obvious to me he wants to get her back (but will not be a fool or door mat in doing so). Van I was thinking (and spouse mentioned it too), as to whether you have group benefits. Am in the industry and within your plan (or spouse's) there may be an EAP (employee assistance program). Call them now and speak to a councellor. This is an emergency. They will help. If not look up free services available in the area (plenty in the GTA). You need to talk to people about this and professionals are the best. First of all, I'm all for reconciliation when there's any chance at all, particularly in the case of a long marriage and the presence of children. But most of the time when there is a reconciliation, the WS stops the affair. In this case, WS threatens to divorce the BS if he attempts to make her stop. Shows no remorse when presented with the proof. Basically throws it up in his face and says, "you're not going to do anything about it anyway". I don't like to recommend divorce, but what is there to reconcile here? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Van- So at this point, what are you actively DOING while she's gone? Have you started investigating your options as it comes to divorce? Started looking at the laws in your area, the processes/steps you'll need to go through, and your legal options for seperating from your wife? To a degree, I can agree that it doesn't matter at this point what she's actually doing in Cuba...she knew what she was going to do to you by choosing to go on this trip...and she went anyway. That tells you all you need to know to make your decision...you probably should start divorcing proceedings now. Getting the additional info from the PI may help you in court, but probably won't impact your decision and/or first steps. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) She claims there is no affair even in the face of emails. She is in a fog and until she goes through with it and Van has proof (from the PI), there is a number of factors still in play. Is she going to sleep with him? Does it really matter in the end? Van will be the one to make the decision whether he wants to repair the marriage or not. Then his spouse has to too come clean, lay herself bare and recommit. At least Van will have his answers soon enough. Whether he/she is successful, no one knows for sure and it is pure conjecture. I just hope he finds peace and happiness. Poor guy..... Edited August 5, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
Author Vanhandle Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 A lot of crazy ideas have crossed my mind…like emailing the OM photos of her after she gave birth for example. Tempting but also pathetic and counterproductive, coz I really don’t think he’ll give a damn. I also thought of getting on a plane and showing up. Again, too dangerous and ultimately pathetic. So for those suggesting these ideas and similar, I appreciate it, but I’ll pass. The one thing I’m really contemplating is texting her a question of why she took those personal items (Sexy lingerie, vibrator, etc) on this specific trip. Then again, based on her track record so far, she’s liable to come with a ridiculous explanation like - “Oh Honey, I was going to be alone, so I pleasured myself while thinking of YOU, baby!” @Owl and Chi Town - I am currently in consultations with a lawyer. I’ll get a better picture by next Monday. I’m also trying to get a clearer picture of our finances. So we’ll see. @Toodamnpragmatic – were we related in a previous life? Seriously, every post of yours comes very close to what I’m thinking or doing. Just curious, are you a woman or a man? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. Re group benefits - I’m afraid not. I am a self-employed consultant. However, I will check out counselors/professionals to help me deal with this mess. Re whether she will go all the way or not - Unless I have a supernatural ability to see her every single move from here….I will never know! What I will have is proof that she met him and possibly some supplementary images of them being lovey-dovey with one another. No matter. Just her being captured in his company is enough for me. @reboot – it’s exactly what she did. Actually, in our conversations/arguments in the weeks following D-day, when I pressed her about the whole thing she would get defensive, pissed-off and always say “You are making me feel cornered. I told all there is to know. Stop pushing this issue. It will lead to divorce and you will be alone and miserable” In hindsight, I now realize that she was playing on my fear of breaking up the family. Having said that, one thing I didn’t mention was that in the past 3 weeks when I attempted (in vain) to prevent her from going, I rehashed all the evidence, my suspicions, all the old discussions, etc. Throughout all these futile discussions, what was odd was that she did not get defensive, pissed or cut-off the discussion like she used to. She would listen intently and not argue except on certain aspects of our past (re-write of course). There were moments that it felt like she wanted to confess but was holding herself. She would throw some crumbs like “It’s just a non-sexual friendship. A weird kind of friendship” My personal read on this odd passiveness on her part is that she didn’t want to piss me off too much and thereby jeopardize the trip which was almost at hand. Why rock the boat if you’re cruising to the Promised Land, eh? Did anyone experience this odd passiveness after so much defensiveness, denial, etc from their WS? Thanks everyone and I LOVE reading your comments. It cheers me up immensely! Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 and rehashing each minutiae and detail. It will eat you up. Do something for yourself, it is out of your hands for the time being. Put into action or thought about what YOU want to do when she gets back. Also and this is the hardest to face up to.... Look in the mirror and acknowledge while what she did was WRONG, it did not happen in a vacuum and what do you need to do if you two want to stay together and have as happy marriage. Yes I am a male and while not being there (or close to your situation), I do empathise and can feel your pain. Link to post Share on other sites
Lecturer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'd like to point out that when she comes back, she'll likely discuss the details of what happened with her friend(s), possibly by email. THAT can be your smoking gun evidence, if you so desire... but it would mean holding off on taking action for some time after her return. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'd like to point out that when she comes back, she'll likely discuss the details of what happened with her friend(s), possibly by email. THAT can be your smoking gun evidence, if you so desire... but it would mean holding off on taking action for some time after her return. Good point. You might consider investigating the legality of installing a keylogger on your home computer (assuming it's a shared one that she uses). You might also consider looking into digital voice activated recorders that can be connected to an unused phone jack in your house, or placed in a room where she's likely to carry on a phone conversation with her 'friend'. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Van intercepted e-mail stating that she was going to go down there and meet up with this guy to take care of "unfinished business" He has photos of his wife in the arms of this guy when she was alone on one of these trips. She's taken the kimono that she dresses in for Van when they're about to get frisky, she's taken her viberator and lubes, she's taken all her sexy undergarments. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...... Problem is, she's used to going off and taking these "breaks" from her marriage in the past and coming home to NO consequences to her actions. She believes that nothing will happen because, SHE'S already threatened him with divorce if he isn't a good boy and stop having a tempertatrum while she goes and sleeps with someone else. It hasn't registered in her head that HE'S already told her don't go, because if you do, we're over. This isn't how the game is supposed to be played in her head. I wouldn't text her asking where certain items are, I PRAY that you are not responding to her texts AT ALL! Don't respond, don't let her know where your head is. Let her sweat it out. Make it uncomfortable for her; the idea of not knowing. She knows that you've layed down the consequences of what will happen if she went. She went anyway. If you are recieving texts from her, I speculate that they are written to reassure you that everything between the two of you are fine, she misses you blah...blah..... you know the truth. If you don't respond, questions will start formulate in her head. "Why hasn't he responded?" "What's going on?" " Is he really that mad?" "What is he doing?" "Does he ACTUALLY know something?" "Is he going to leave me?" "Has he left me already?" These questions may plague her, making her trip....less enjoyable. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Friedman Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Good point. You might consider investigating the legality of installing a keylogger on your home computer (assuming it's a shared one that she uses). You might also consider looking into digital voice activated recorders that can be connected to an unused phone jack in your house, or placed in a room where she's likely to carry on a phone conversation with her 'friend'. Are you people insane? Why go to all this goddamn trouble?! We aren't trying to convict her in a court of law(and it wouldn't matter anyway). The circumstantial evidence that she is going to have sex with this guy is so glaring it makes OJ look innocent in comparison. Is anyone seriously going to say flew all the way over there despite her husband's threat to end the marriage, taking things obviously meant for sex, only to go halfway or have some coffee? What's the point? Emails of her telling her friend of how this guy made her husband look like a preschooler in bed wont do much for Van's recovery. He'll just feel like **** and sink deeper into pity/self-loathing. What he should do now is to take his folder of evidence and timeline of events, and show them to HER FAMILY and important mutual associates. Lay out her deceit clearly before she has the chance to paint you as irrational, controlling, delusional whatever. Trust me, looking at what you posted, any rational person will know what went down. Link to post Share on other sites
John Michael Kane Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'd like to point out that when she comes back, she'll likely discuss the details of what happened with her friend(s), possibly by email. THAT can be your smoking gun evidence, if you so desire... but it would mean holding off on taking action for some time after her return. Please that's a waste of time. That "conversation" is going to do nothing but hurt this man even more. She left to cheat AGAIN. This woman isn't going to stop. File for divorce and cut her off. She's unremorseful. It's counterproductive for you to be pining away for this "woman" while she's off doing God knows what with God knows who. She cheated on you multiple times and left YOU and your KIDS. That's not a wife. Grab your manhood and get the ball rolling. And since she left this is the perfect time for you to start making changes. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Are you people insane? Why go to all this goddamn trouble?! We aren't trying to convict her in a court of law(and it wouldn't matter anyway). The circumstantial evidence that she is going to have sex with this guy is so glaring it makes OJ look innocent in comparison. Is anyone seriously going to say flew all the way over there despite her husband's threat to end the marriage, taking things obviously meant for sex, only to go halfway or have some coffee? What's the point? Emails of her telling her friend of how this guy made her husband look like a preschooler in bed wont do much for Van's recovery. He'll just feel like **** and sink deeper into pity/self-loathing. What he should do now is to take his folder of evidence and timeline of events, and show them to HER FAMILY and important mutual associates. Lay out her deceit clearly before she has the chance to paint you as irrational, controlling, delusional whatever. Trust me, looking at what you posted, any rational person will know what went down. Have you paid any attention to the fact that most everyone, including several people who strongly believe in reconciliation (such as reboot and myself) have all also indicated that we feel Van should be working towards divorce????? I suggested the things I did because Van feels a need to get that additional information. I don't see anyone here suggesting that he stay. No "insanity" present that I've seen so far. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE=Vanhandle;3547500@ver13 - very true. I will try my best to follow thru but the pain right now is just unbearable. I don't mean to sound like a drama queen or belabor this, but it really does hurt...a lot!! Especially since I have no control over what's happening THERE and I'm here like a caged animal. Even my daughter senses it and keeps asking me "Daddy, why you sad? you no happy??".... Hi Van, I just read your story and am so so sorry for what you and your kids are going thru. This just shows that affairs are not just cheating on a spouse but the kids as well. What kind of woman leaves her husband and kids to screw around in Cuba with some musician? You sound like a wonderful husband and you will come through this and find happiness again. If your wife thinks this younger musician is going to take on a 42 year old woman with kids she has another thing coming. When you show her you are serious and she feels her current lifestyle slipping away she more than likely will have a change or heart. Link to post Share on other sites
ver13 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Van - It's way past time to act on this situation she's gone and you have all the evidence that you truly need at this point. Whenever she get's back be it tonight or next week it's already done. Now you need to lean forward and start building your foundation for a better life. I would suggest that you take what you have on her "A" to all the people that mean something in your life and let them see it for themselves right now. At the same time that you do that get your lawyer in gear and start the seperation process. I know you say that you want to wait to get the "PI" stuff. But you know deep down that you are just afraid to start the process because you truly don't want to lose her. Well that ship has sailed she's not at home but in Cuba. You realize that hope is not a method to ensure positive progress in the right direction it's an excuse. You need to protect yourself and the baby period. I'm not saying that you can't come to a point at sometime in the future where you can discuss this with you WW but at least do it from a postion of strenght not from one of in- decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 one other thing to think about, is if you start telling people now, they're going to text her about what they've heard. OH MAN, Van's WW would be blowing up his phone after that! Oh well, she made her choice, this time she gets to live with the consequences and the mess she's made of her life. Because, you don't have to. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 one other thing to think about, is if you start telling people now, they're going to text her about what they've heard. OH MAN, Van's WW would be blowing up his phone after that! Oh well, she made her choice, this time she gets to live with the consequences and the mess she's made of her life. Because, you don't have to. I don't see a problem with that. Might as well ruin her little "vacation" with Cubanito from the beginning, IMHO. Hard to have too much fun when you know you're headed back into a dirstorm. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yeah, but that gives her plenty of time to concoct a viable story when she gets back. Thus, making him look like an insane, jealous husband. I suggest waiting for her to get back, then blow it out of the water with evidence he's collected. Link to post Share on other sites
ver13 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I don't see a problem with that. Might as well ruin her little "vacation" with Cubanito from the beginning, IMHO. Hard to have too much fun when you know you're headed back into a dirstorm. I agree it doesn't matter at this point how she try's to portray him from now on the evidence that he has speaks for it's self. Link to post Share on other sites
ver13 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yeah, but that gives her plenty of time to concoct a viable story when she gets back. Thus, making him look like an insane, jealous husband. I suggest waiting for her to get back, then blow it out of the water with evidence he's collected. This merits some thought but in the end what he has in his posession right now will at least raise a few eyebrows. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yeah, but that gives her plenty of time to concoct a viable story when she gets back. Thus, making him look like an insane, jealous husband. I suggest waiting for her to get back, then blow it out of the water with evidence he's collected. Valid point. I don't know what difference it will make in the long run...if he opts for divorce, what does it matter what she thinks (or tries to convince anyone else) about him? If it doesn't factor into the seperation/divorce/support process...does it matter? Don't know if it does to Van or not, and I honestly don't know anything about divorce in Canada to know the answer to that question myself. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I don't see a problem with that. Might as well ruin her little "vacation" with Cubanito from the beginning, IMHO. Hard to have too much fun when you know you're headed back into a dirstorm. I agree. Time to shout it from the rooftop. Link to post Share on other sites
eamherst14051 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Say Van, your wife's name isn't Lucy is it? I mean, Cuba, Band, OMG I hope his name isn't Ricky !! Link to post Share on other sites
Lecturer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Please that's a waste of time. That "conversation" is going to do nothing but hurt this man even more. She left to cheat AGAIN. This woman isn't going to stop. File for divorce and cut her off. She's unremorseful. It's counterproductive for you to be pining away for this "woman" while she's off doing God knows what with God knows who. She cheated on you multiple times and left YOU and your KIDS. That's not a wife. Grab your manhood and get the ball rolling. And since she left this is the perfect time for you to start making changes. I don't think you understand what his objective now is. There is no question about him divorcing, etc. The only issue is doing so in the most advantageous manner, and having absolute certainty of what happened for peace of mind (it's better to know for sure, than have even a tiny shred of a possibility that she didn't). He needs PROOF. With a confession (to her friend), he has it. That will be advantageous in court, and should help him feel a bit better about divorce.. less likely that he might entertain her pleas for forgiveness (or further denials) AT ALL. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Yeah, but isn't said "friend" in Cuba with her already? Why the hell would they talk about it in Canada if they can talkl about it all they want in Cuba? Well, okay. Then, I wouldn't say anything until after the lawyer draws up the seperation or divorce papers. Then, no holds barred! Hell, when she returns, have the server at the airport holding up a card with her name on it, when she approachs him, " You've been served!" Edited August 5, 2011 by Chi townD Link to post Share on other sites
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