Wife is about to make it physical.

[Richard Friedman]

My condolences man. Treat yourself to a night out on the town at least.

[zebrack25]

Van,

I just finished reading this entire thread. You are my hero man; you're handling this Sooooo much better than I did with a girl of only 4 months cheating on me. Kudos for staying strong and I hope you divorce this ***** the second she returns.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I mean a vacation away from family for over a week and she thinks that is okay (forget the cheating)...... She must take you for a fool.

 

Quick get to 50 posts so you can send and receive pm's (Private Messages).

 

I am gone 2 weeks Friday so will only have minimal opportunity to check, but will be thinking about you and hope you hold it together.

 

Can I ask what part of the GTA you're in?

[Vanhandle]

Right now I haven't concluded a plan until I see what she has on her mind. Meaning I will try to settle things with her as amicably as possible (I know, I know, she doesn't deserve 'amicable'). Reason being that there is a lot at stake here...very expensive house purchased 1 month ago, huge debts, cars and most importantly kids. You see she can be quite explosive and I have no clue how she will react "this" time (being that this will be the second go around). The first time, she was so enraged that I didn't recognize her. Honest to god she was beside herself with pure, pure rage. The venom in her eyes was just...evil. Mind this rage was because of emails...so imagine what rage I can expect when she realizes that she'd been followed and faces cold hard evidence?

 

You see, there is some suicide history in her family (father, etc) and I fear she might harm herself. If she does, then everyone in our circle of family and friends will undoubtedly put the blame on me, regardless of what she did. Its the nature of things. I am not weasling out or looking for ways not to confront her. Rather, I am now a bit uneasy as to what to expect. Physically she can't do sh*t to me (other than stick a knife in me while I sleep). What I fear is harm to herself or more ominously, to the kids. Like Blue Knight alluded earlier, in emotional situations such as these, you never know how the person will react.

 

Can anyone here who's had something similar tell me how they presented such evidence to a spouse (wife preferably) that had a tendency to be unpredictable/angry/extreme mood swings?

 

Thanks.

[Vanhandle]

@chi - I'm afraid you are right. She will go ape-****. Can you imagine yourself (hypothetically of course) thinking you've totally fooled your spouse, **** around in a sunny paradise....and then come back to face the evidence...wow! I can just imagine the shock. Now imagine that on someone who is unapologetic, confident, cocky and irrational...duck!

 

Re PI report, I'm afraid I will not be getting it before she returns because he returns a day after her. It'll be very awkward couple of days for me, coz I can't jump the gun.

[Vanhandle]

@TooDamn - Thanks my friend! I will try to reach 50 as fast as I can. Her flight lands Friday at 1:00 pm. As for what part of GTA, forgive me but I would rather not say. Maybe thru PM but not here. Hope you understand.

[Vanhandle]

@Miky - I am sorry to hear that your marriage has reached this terrible crossroad. I WISH I had taken action earlier but I never had a warning, no communication, no expression of frustration. Just the usual stresses of a newborn, household chores, etc...then for it to came out of the blue like that? Damn, its crushing! Its what I call the gutless route...escapism. After what I have endured and still enduring, I wish you all the best and much success in restoring your marriage to a better future.

 

Thanks for your support.

[bentnotbroken]

Right now I haven't concluded a plan until I see what she has on her mind. Meaning I will try to settle things with her as amicably as possible (I know, I know, she doesn't deserve 'amicable'). Reason being that there is a lot at stake here...very expensive house purchased 1 month ago, huge debts, cars and most importantly kids. You see she can be quite explosive and I have no clue how she will react "this" time (being that this will be the second go around). The first time, she was so enraged that I didn't recognize her. Honest to god she was beside herself with pure, pure rage. The venom in her eyes was just...evil. Mind this rage was because of emails...so imagine what rage I can expect when she realizes that she'd been followed and faces cold hard evidence?

 

You see, there is some suicide history in her family (father, etc) and I fear she might harm herself. If she does, then everyone in our circle of family and friends will undoubtedly put the blame on me, regardless of what she did. Its the nature of things. I am not weasling out or looking for ways not to confront her. Rather, I am now a bit uneasy as to what to expect. Physically she can't do sh*t to me (other than stick a knife in me while I sleep). What I fear is harm to herself or more ominously, to the kids. Like Blue Knight alluded earlier, in emotional situations such as these, you never know how the person will react.

 

Can anyone here who's had something similar tell me how they presented such evidence to a spouse (wife preferably) that had a tendency to be unpredictable/angry/extreme mood swings?

 

Thanks.

 

 

I had plenty of evidence. Pictures, text, emails....you name it. Her BS hired a PI. I got me info other ways. Mr. Messy wasn't unpredictable, he denied with all the proof in front him, then he begged, then he accused me of manufacturing the info. OW was a different story. She called me intimating she was going to "away" so she would never hurt anyone again:rolleyes: I was freaked and called Mr. Messy and her BS. Strange thing is they were both used to her hysteria so neither of them seemed overly concerned.

 

My advice would be to either video or record your confrontation. It will ensure that you are protected from any unforeseen problems.

[Severely Unamused]

Can anyone here who's had something similar tell me how they presented such evidence to a spouse (wife preferably) that had a tendency to be unpredictable/angry/extreme mood swings?

Not a spouse, but my own mother had temper tantrums and traits similar to what you have described.

 

In my experience, you can't "win" or "control" an argument against the type that doesn't know how to back down. Just doesn't happen. In fact, acting extremely confrontational like that can cause the situation to escalate.

 

Personally, I would recommend that you place the evidence on the table, make your points 100% clear, then step back and remain calm. She will try to engage you but you can't get sucked into her arguments. Disengage and let her cool down.

 

I would install some recording devices in the house to record her making threats like that. In fact, if you haven't already you should install a recorder ASAP.

Possibly. Sounds extreme but you did suggest that you are dealing with an extreme case.

 

On another note, the new information that you have presented about your wife, as well as what you have previously suggested, leads me to believe that she has a mental disorder. What do you think? It's a bit of a step back to bring this up but...

Edited August 11, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[lordWilhelm]

Don't treat her with kids gloves. When she gets back, you don't have to wait for the PI report. Just the fact that she went there and you gave her plenty of warning that if she does you're following through with a divorce should be enough to get the ball rolling.

 

If she denies something happening and you really want to show her the evidence, there's nothing wrong with doing that a couple of days after you've informed her of your decision.

[dreamingoftigers]

Glad that you are standing firm on this. She is ridiculous.

[Lexygirl]

Vanhandle, you expressed concern that if she tried to hurt herself after you confront her, that some of your friends/family would blame you?

I think that you can do something about that ahead of time by 'leaking out' her infidelity NOW to some of the more trusted family and friends. That way you are covering your butt.

 

Take care.

[GTJ]

You said the Pi will return after Her

 

1 Have one of her friends pick her up:confused:

2 Leave a note saying that you have to go out of town for two day and

that you can't be reached until then.

3. Go Dark and do not allow yourself to be contacted by anyone.

4. After the PI returns and you see him and then if necessary see your

lawyer

5 Have him serve seperation papers on the day you return just after you

get home.

6. Tell her that you will not consider reconcilation until she tells the truth

and if not then to get a lawyer. If she argues tell that you know

everything and that if she wants to tell you anything then to do it now

or wait until court.

7 Tell one of her female friends to look in on her because you fear for her

safty and that you wash your hand of her because of her actions but

do not tell her exactly what your evidence is.

8. Discus nothing with her unless it is with or thru your lawyer or a

mediator.

 

LET HER SWEAT!!

[Try]

Re PI report, I'm afraid I will not be getting it before she returns because he returns a day after her. It'll be very awkward couple of days for me, coz I can't jump the gun.

You told her that if she got on the plane the marriage was over. For your own dignity and self respect you must follow through and tell her that you have contacted an attorney and will be filing for a divorce. Tell her this as she walks in the door (no matter what do not go to the airport). Then stop talking until you get the photos from the PI. If you wait the couple of days she will see you as weak. Also, in her insanity, what if she is the one to say she wants to end it before you do as you wait? She will never respect you as she will always think that you let her get away with it as she helps the OM get a visa.

 

Do not tell her about the PI until you have the evidence in hand. Trying to do everything in one big super confrontation is not a good idea anyway.

[harryxiv]

I'm very sorry for what you are going through. I A's a similar experience where I knew she was going to be with the other guy. When I confronted her she was pissed that I didn't trust her and then the blame was all on me. I was depressed, angry, even did time for introducing my fist to the other guys face. In the end it wasn't worth it, but what made her angry was not going out with other women, it was when I was going to the gym, getting my weight back, looking good from exercising, and getting on with my life and looking even more happy that I was not with her anymore. She could not stand that I didn't respond to her emails or text unless it had to do with the kids. When we exchanged our kids there was no hi or bye I would give my full attention to my babies. She was on her knees begging for me to take her back and I did. But it didn't last and this time it was on my terms, I couldn't get that she was not pure and deep down inside the ****ing bitch who treated my like hell was somewhere in their. Now we talk but just about the kids, I'm happy have a new woman in my life who adores me and loves my children like her own. You will get through this, stay strong and be with friends and family for support. They are you flashlight in this dark hour.

[Bugz Bunny]

Hi Van

Here's my advice for you and some of them were already said by other posters...first I must say to you that people like your wife were my patients (I am a doctor)...so here are my advices to you:

 

1. don't go to the airport to pick her up after she F***** another man...

2. get out of the house with your children before she comes home and stay away from her for about two days

3.wait for PI to arrive and then collect all evidence...after that is finished go to your lawyer and file for separation/divorce

4.then go with all evidence and separation papers to your house and "confront" her...when you confront her with all the evidence and everything else you must stay calm (This is very important)

5.no matter how she reacts you must stay calm and record everything...

6. when you confront her don't show her that you need her,and don't show her that you are weak or something else like that

7. after the confrontation inform someone of her close family so that they can take care of her because you said that she can be suicidal...

 

P.S. when you confront her she will blame you for everything and she will try to make you responsible for all this mess that she created...but that is when you must be strong and calm and put the evidence in fron of her...

AND REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT AND MOST IMPORTANT DON'T FORGET THAT WHEN YOU CONFRONT HER

 

Good luck and stay strong...

[RobD70]

1. don't go to the airport to pick her up after she F***** another man...

2. get out of the house with your children before she comes home and stay away from her for about two days

3.wait for PI to arrive and then collect all evidence...after that is finished go to your lawyer and file for separation/divorce

4.then go with all evidence and separation papers to your house and "confront" her...when you confront her with all the evidence and everything else you must stay calm (This is very important)

5.no matter how she reacts you must stay calm and record everything...

6. when you confront her don't show her that you need her,and don't show her that you are weak or something else like that

7. after the confrontation inform someone of her close family so that they can take care of her because you said that she can be suicidal...

This is a good idea.

 

Van, you need a plan just like this and follow through it 100% regardless of how she reacts or how you feel. This is in my option the best course of action and Bugz hit the nail on the head.

 

It's all about respect and no self-respecting man would put up with what she did.

[road]

@Miky - I am sorry to hear that your marriage has reached this terrible crossroad. I WISH I had taken action earlier but I never had a warning, no communication, no expression of frustration.

 

I call bull fecal matter on your claim. You could put your foot down before WW went on her love surfari.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I don't know what your plans are, but it is time for action.

 

Let your family and friends know that you're spouse is cheating on you, you have proof and can't face her on her return. Let them know you've gone away for 2-3 days.

 

Take the kids to the falls or north and enjoy the weekend (waterparks and the kitsch).

 

Time for her to stew. Leave a letter or text that you can't be with her and that you know everything.

 

When you meet the PI, come home (leave the kids with parents and let her see the evidence. Stay calm and ask her why and what she wants to do.

 

Then get the kids and your decision whether you go to the guest room/basement/friends/family whatever.

 

However and really I have no background, just wish I could handle it as well as you have, but I implore that you don't see her until you have the evidence and let her digest it.

 

So so sorry. We can PM if you are up for it once you reach 50.

 

Stay strong.

[2.50 a gallon]

It seems as though all of the posters are preparing you to be tough when it gets confrontational.

 

Also consider what your plan is if she returns with remorse, "I made a mistake, I am so sorry, forgive me, I love you, I don't want to break up the family, let's fix this" attitude

 

That was what my Ex did, along with buckets of tears.

 

Truthfully it was the hardest thing that I have ever experienced, it was more traumatic than d-day. Them tears really messsed me up

 

Like you I was lost, my emotions were all over the place, and here was an out, all I had to do was to say yes and she would be right back in my arms. She was my wife, and even though I was angry and hated her, I still loved her, and I had taken my wedding vows very seriously. The two of us had made a covenant with the almighty, and how would the almighty react to my saying no?

 

I am just trying to say, expect the unexpected and figure out a way to deal with it

[Chi townD]

I call bull fecal matter on your claim. You could put your foot down before WW went on her love surfari.

 

 

Road- He did put his foot down and basically told her that if she went on this trip then they were done. She went anyway. You can't FORCE anyone to do anything, but you can make the aware of the consequences of their actions.

 

Van- I agree with everyone else, if she goes ballistic, don't feed into it, don't get drawn in no matter what she says to you. Be as cool as a cucumber and have a " I don't give a sh*t...whatever." attitude. By the way, get yourself a hand recorder and tape all conversations with her upon her return. I have my doubts that she would try to commit suicide, she obviously a very selfish person a wouldn't do that. However, if she THREATENS suicide, then call an ambulance and have her admitted to an ER, if you recorded her making those threats then the hospital has to take that seriously and admit her for observation. This could also help you with custody of the kids, Recorded conversations can me admisable in court but medical records can be subpoena. Those are legally recongized documents.

[StoneCold]

 

1. don't go to the airport to pick her up after she F***** another man...

2. get out of the house with your children before she comes home and stay away from her for about two days

3.wait for PI to arrive and then collect all evidence...after that is finished go to your lawyer and file for separation/divorce

4.then go with all evidence and separation papers to your house and "confront" her...when you confront her with all the evidence and everything else you must stay calm (This is very important)

5.no matter how she reacts you must stay calm and record everything...

6. when you confront her don't show her that you need her,and don't show her that you are weak or something else like that

7. after the confrontation inform someone of her close family so that they can take care of her because you said that she can be suicidal...

 

Because she sounds like a volatile person I'd like to add a couple more points...

 

8. BEFORE you confront her...arrange for the kids to go somewhere (like a play date with their friends or something of the sort....Send them to Dave and Busters in Woodbridge or something....this is your call) and make sure the wife knows and sees it as nothing out of the ordinary...you dont want the kids around when the sh*t hits the fan.

 

9. BEFORE you confront her arrange for a place to stay and do your best to have anything of value to you or anything you need on a regular basis out and away from the house...cell, key items of clothing (work clothes, change of underwear and socks), sentimental items, if you have a nice ride park it on the street or better yet somewhere else and get a lift. Because after this you will need to bounce FAST and she may try to lash out by destroying things and causing you further expense.

 

10. This really sucks but do you have a really good friend? Somebody who would go to the line for you? Because I would recommend bringing him along as a witness as you confront and serve her with papers. Only a really good friend would be OK with being dragged into this mess for your well being; most others wouldnt touch it with a 10 ft pole. The reason why I recommend this is I have a few clients where the wives made a call to the cops in a fit of rage and made false allegations of assault. Yup thats right...right in our own town buddy. Peel Region showed up and booked their azz no questions asked....We all know how it goes when law enforcement gets involved in a situation between a man and a woman...the man is COOKED if he has no witnesses....also the witness may act as a good deterrent of her going ape-sh*t and coming at you like a spider monkey.

[The Blue Knight]

Van,

 

There's no way to really tell how someone will react. But she'll probably take the offensive when she finds out what you did and go off on you with the "how dare you . . . blah blah blah."

 

The second time I caught my ex wife she assured me that she was done and had broken it off. But I had been through it once previously and my trust level was pretty much non-existent. I may have told you this when I shared this story a few days back but I set up a recorder in the garage and spliced into the phone line. When I heard her on the taped phone with this idiot after coming home from work around midnight I was ticked. I tossed her suitcase on the bed as I flipped on the light and told her to get out. She was shocked by my confrontation coming out of a dead sleep.

 

Naturally she tried playing dumb with the "what had gotten into me" approach, and I told her I had her nailed on the tape. That's when she did the "how dare you tape my private conversations" routine. I said "save it, you're not going to turn this around on me. You're a cheater, and what's worse is your a pathological liar. Get out!"

 

Be prepared for her to try to turn the tables. That's what guilty people often do to save face.

 

Regarding the suicide angle. What worries me is this . . . would she use that angle to try to keep you in check by hinting of depression and such? My ex did that as well. I recognized it as a game she was playing with my head because she liked herself far too much to do harm to herself. I don't know what past history your wife has with depression or talk of suicide if any. My ex wife had depression issues off and on but never anything close to talk of suicide. She was capable of many forms of manipulation and that was just one of them at that point.

 

I've been on many suicide involved calls. And for my money, and I say this based on my professional experience, the ones that talk about it are doing just that, talking about it. It's a manipulation technique. Those who actually commit suicide are generally ashamed of their inner-most feelings of wanting to kill themselves and seldom will discuss it with anyone except maybe a professional psychologist. Indeed, they often just do it and then the families and friends are completely shocked by the act because there was never any indication.

 

Hopefully she's not the type to try to trap you using that approach. Depends on how low she'll stoop. Besides that, if someone wants to hurt themselves you'll never really be able to stop them. That's just a fact.

 

I fear you're disarming yourself Van. Be careful not to let her hold all the cards in this dilemma. You're worried about her friends and family and what they'd say if your wife did indeed hurt herself. You're the person who has had the love of your life lie and cheat on you, and no doubt she'll continue to lie even when confronted with the truth and the evidence.

 

If this ends in divorce trust me Van, she'll always have friends and family who will blame you anyway because that's just the way these things often end up . . . she'll have more access to them, and be able to present her version of the story to them, and that means lots of spin my friend! She'll marginalize this and that . . . retell and reformat your marriage history so that "she's been unhappy for a very long time" and that's why she ended up with the guy in Cuba. It was never intended to be that way. "It just happened because of her deeply seeded unhappiness in the marriage." The new house? That was her way of trying to "keep the marriage and the family together."

 

Be ready and trust me, the spin could be nonstop after this thing gets going. The guilty always have to find excuses for their unacceptable behavior. That's how they keep those around them believing it wasn't really their fault. And to a large degree they do this to convince themselves of their victimology thereby side-stepping their own self-guilt.

 

Don't get caught up being "responsible" for her and her outcomes. You're the damaged individual in this relationship. She's the one who has become adulterous and broken the marriage vow. You have to remember that!

 

The other thing I'm afraid of is that you just pointed out she has a new home and other toys and I'm fearful that if she's afraid of losing those things she'll come off as repentant and sorrowful when you appear to be going forward with this divorce.

 

She may be the classic "best of both worlds" type of person. There's plenty of them out there and the more reality that smacks her upside the head as you go forward, the more likely it is that she'll say and commit to anything to keep the marriage together. The thing is be ready for this! My ex did it to me a couple of times. When confronted with being on her own and not being around her kids and me full time as a family she said all the right things to keep me around and reinvested in the marriage. It's a safety net mechanism used because the guilty party isn't completely sure that they want to take that BIG STEP.

 

Only you can decide how to handle all of this but my experience both personally and professionally is that if she says she'll stay and "work things out" it will only last so long. Later she may come to resent you for "keeping her in an unhappy marriage and losing the love of her life" in the process. Be ready for that if you do let her talk you into "working it out."

 

I wish there were some easy answers for you Van. The truth is that there are none. All of these decisions you'll be making alone. People like me will support whatever decision you make but be weary of the things she may be capable of when she sees you going forward with a divorce. That moment of reality may have her rethinking it and then she may be capable of making commitments she's never going to keep. Just know that going in and be prepared for it. I think it's the most disarming thing the cheating ex spouse does to the harmed spouse and they don't usually see it coming.

 

You'll have to ask yourself at that point if you believe she's staying for the right reasons or the wrong ones. But you have that answer already in reality. If she prioritized you and her kids she never would have left after you made your objections known to her going to Cuba on this last trip.

 

And let's also keep in mind that she may indeed believe that you're smitten enough with her as your wife that she thinks she can pull this off without it resulting in divorce. The old "better to ask for forgiveness than for permission" type of thing.

 

Finally, the other direction she could go and this is less likely, but of course I don't know her or her personality enough to throw more than this at you . . . would be that she might feel a sense of relief and be glad that the masquerade she's been living is over and she can move on with her life. But that I think is the least likely of the two scenarios of how she'll respond.

 

Emotions that deep and with that much history can cause us to say and do things that we normally wouldn't be capable of. Just be aware of that going into this weekend.

 

Much of how she responds will depend on what sweet nothings the Cuban Casanova is whispering in her ear. If he's attempting to convince her he wants a long term thing, maybe even the idea of marriage, she may resort to feeling relief that your relationship is coming to an end. If she's not sure that the Cuban Casanova is in it for the long haul and is merely treating her as a side-action romantic interest, then she may use option #1 and attempt to stay in the marriage. But the issue will always be, is her heart really in it, or is it the fear of the unknown and fear of losing what feels safe and secure?

 

For my money having lived through something similar, even if she convinces you that she wants to stay and "work things out" she may be able to do it for a while and then she'll be looking for that elusive love that she apparently thinks she needs, and you'll be right back to this whole screwed-up mess in round two in the months ahead.

 

Right now I haven't concluded a plan until I see what she has on her mind. Meaning I will try to settle things with her as amicably as possible (I know, I know, she doesn't deserve 'amicable'). Reason being that there is a lot at stake here...very expensive house purchased 1 month ago, huge debts, cars and most importantly kids. You see she can be quite explosive and I have no clue how she will react "this" time (being that this will be the second go around). The first time, she was so enraged that I didn't recognize her. Honest to god she was beside herself with pure, pure rage. The venom in her eyes was just...evil. Mind this rage was because of emails...so imagine what rage I can expect when she realizes that she'd been followed and faces cold hard evidence?

 

You see, there is some suicide history in her family (father, etc) and I fear she might harm herself. If she does, then everyone in our circle of family and friends will undoubtedly put the blame on me, regardless of what she did. Its the nature of things. I am not weasling out or looking for ways not to confront her. Rather, I am now a bit uneasy as to what to expect. Physically she can't do sh*t to me (other than stick a knife in me while I sleep). What I fear is harm to herself or more ominously, to the kids. Like Blue Knight alluded earlier, in emotional situations such as these, you never know how the person will react.

 

Can anyone here who's had something similar tell me how they presented such evidence to a spouse (wife preferably) that had a tendency to be unpredictable/angry/extreme mood swings?

 

Thanks.

[The Blue Knight]

Speaking of, keep that one etched in the back of your brain as well Van. Spiteful and scornful women make things up and call the police more routinely than you can imagine. I would have a hand-held recorder with me from the moment she walks in the door and particularly when you confront her. Don't let her know you have it. Use it as protection lest she make things up or accuse you of threatening her or worse yet, of striking her. Trust me, a woman who is on an emotional roller-coaster as she seems to be is capable of just about anything devious and underhanded.

 

If it gets out of control, kick her out and call the police.

[The Blue Knight]

For my money your English is better than some who speak it native!

 

Hi Van

Here's my advice for you and some of them were already said by other posters...first I must say to you that people like your wife were my patients (I am a doctor)...so here are my advices to you:

 

1. don't go to the airport to pick her up after she F***** another man...

2. get out of the house with your children before she comes home and stay away from her for about two days

3.wait for PI to arrive and then collect all evidence...after that is finished go to your lawyer and file for separation/divorce

4.then go with all evidence and separation papers to your house and "confront" her...when you confront her with all the evidence and everything else you must stay calm (This is very important)

5.no matter how she reacts you must stay calm and record everything...

6. when you confront her don't show her that you need her,and don't show her that you are weak or something else like that

7. after the confrontation inform someone of her close family so that they can take care of her because you said that she can be suicidal...

 

P.S. when you confront her she will blame you for everything and she will try to make you responsible for all this mess that she created...but that is when you must be strong and calm and put the evidence in fron of her...

AND REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT AND MOST IMPORTANT DON'T FORGET THAT WHEN YOU CONFRONT HER

 

Good luck and stay strong...