nyrias Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Oh, the irony! The bolded describes a serial cheater to a 'T' Yeah ... so you shouldnt be surprised when infidelity is pretty prevalent in our society. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah ... so you shouldnt be surprised when infidelity is pretty prevalent in our society. Nothing surprises me anymore. However, I am intuitive enough at this point in my life to be able to weed out the selfish, self centered, it's all about MEEEEEE kind of folks. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah, it is age old because it poses a good question. In fact, didnt a lot of BSes swear it will never happen to them, until D-Day? I wouldn't know that. And it's not about what could happen TO them. That could happen to ANYONE. However, I know my man wouldn't cheat on ANYONE. Has nothing to do with me and everything to do with him. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Sorry, I just don't buy that your definition of love is the only one. Every kid on the planet (and most adults as well) will lie at least on occasion to someone they love. It's wonderful that you and your husband have such unselfish love, but most people are not that perfect - most people will stretch or shrink the truth at times. Sometimes to save face, sometimes out of fear, sometimes out of anger, sometimes probably for reasons I haven't even considered. They still have real love, even though it doesn't meet your criteria. Its easy to call it perfection and bow out because till you try it you don't know if its possible. But telling the truth won't make someone "perfect"; everyone makes mistakes. Lies are not mistakes. Lies are willful. You don't accidentally lie. You might unknowingly promote something untrue because you believed it was true. Finding it wasn't true after the fact doesn't mean you lied. Cheating however......you can't not know you're cheating nor can you not know it when you lie to your partner about where you were, with whom, and doing what. I'm pretty sure if you tried to not lie to your partner you wouldn't have to be "perfect" to succeed. You do however talk about the result of being honest. Yes. Some people do not permit the truth. They are liars too. They live in delusion or falseness and turn mean when anyone tries to bring them back to reality and fact. My mom was one of these people. I lied to her to try to avoid beatings. I realized I could either get beat for the truth or I could get beat for a lie and for some reason, it hurt hurt less to get beat for the truth. But that was long ago and now if I lie it would be to people who hold similar power to affect my life - boss, police, government. I don't love them. Link to post Share on other sites
PatFinkle Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 That banished RepairMinded quote made perfect sense to me, too. Wonder why it was banished? You just answered your own question. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Sure, you are one of the few. How about your husband? Do you know for sure he is one of the few too? The sad fact is that many cheaters look like saints before they are discovered. Hence all the disbelief expressed by BSes after D-Day. I can only go with the rules of fair witnessing. I have zero evidence that he is dishonest. He a dishonest person was when we first met. He came from a very similar child/parent situation as myself involving irrational abuse whether he told the truth or not because his father was a mean drunk. He employed the same style of avoidance with most of his early relationships (teens). Lucky for us both, we met and found a desire to not live as we had under our parents. Once you realize you or your partner will eventually make the other mad about something; do something you might not like but it doesn't mean you get beat or the relationship automatically ends. it becomes easier to deal with conflict. Its much more productive to hash out something when you have all the details. Id much rather, if I must have a fight with my partner, at least know WTF we are fighting about. Link to post Share on other sites
rafallus Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Sure, you are one of the few. How about your husband? Do you know for sure he is one of the few too? The sad fact is that many cheaters look like saints before they are discovered. Hence all the disbelief expressed by BSes after D-Day.This is just a challenge of life - to surround yourself with folks who think like you enough. That banished RepairMinded quote made perfect sense to me, too. Wonder why it was banished? He had some killer points, had he not been so hell bent on converting and/or insulting them, he'd slaughter the opposing view in arguments. Edited August 2, 2011 by rafallus Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Its easy to call it perfection and bow out because till you try it you don't know if its possible. But telling the truth won't make someone "perfect"; everyone makes mistakes. Lies are not mistakes. Lies are willful. You don't accidentally lie. You might unknowingly promote something untrue because you believed it was true. Finding it wasn't true after the fact doesn't mean you lied. Cheating however......you can't not know you're cheating nor can you not know it when you lie to your partner about where you were, with whom, and doing what. I'm pretty sure if you tried to not lie to your partner you wouldn't have to be "perfect" to succeed. You may not realize it, but you are judging others by your rules. You wouldn't lie or wouldn't cheat to someone you love. Therefore you say that anyone who would doesn't love. I disagree. And I might add that I already don't lie to my partner - I don't think I ever have. In fact, I don't lie. But, that doesn't mean that I don't understand that some people can and do lie and still they love their partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Kitsune77 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I may be mistaken, but are you referring to me as a serial cheater? That would be interesting, as I havnt posted anything about myself as yet. Link to post Share on other sites
PatFinkle Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 A cereal cheater is a person who steals all of the marshmallows out of the box of Lucky Charms. --Pat F Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 You may not realize it, but you are judging others by your rules. You wouldn't lie or wouldn't cheat to someone you love. Therefore you say that anyone who would doesn't love. I disagree. And I might add that I already don't lie to my partner - I don't think I ever have. In fact, I don't lie. But, that doesn't mean that I don't understand that some people can and do lie and still they love their partner. Sue me? The thread isn't about making anyone agree with anyone else. Did I claim I never judge? Is this a thread questioning peoples' ability to not be judgmental? If I lied to someone and they felt unloved its pretty convenient to suggest "pffft people can lie to people they really love!". It makes in no more a fact than you're suggesting "my rules" would be. Saying this comes from the same motivation for lying in the first place - to avoid responsibility for the result of telling a lie. To avoid them feeling unloved by you until you are ready for them to feel that way. Till then you wouldn't want them to think anything that might have them heading out the door prematurely right? If you don't lie to your partner why are you suggesting my husband and I are somehow perfect for not lying to each other? You follow it with suggesting this is not how most people are. Then you turn around and state you are this "perfect" already. I don't get you and I'm beginning to feel you just want to argue to no point. In all honesty I'd rather not. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I may be mistaken, but are you referring to me as a serial cheater? That would be interesting, as I havnt posted anything about myself as yet. Nevermind it... thats standard fare for Donnamaybe Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I may be mistaken, but are you referring to me as a serial cheater? That would be interesting, as I havnt posted anything about myself as yet. I don't know you so no - I couldn't possibly make a call like that. Link to post Share on other sites
nyrias Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 You may not realize it, but you are judging others by your rules. You wouldn't lie or wouldn't cheat to someone you love. Therefore you say that anyone who would doesn't love. I disagree. And I might add that I already don't lie to my partner - I don't think I ever have. In fact, I don't lie. But, that doesn't mean that I don't understand that some people can and do lie and still they love their partner. We are at it again? It is just semantics .. just a definition. So he (or she) defines love as no lying. You define it differently. It is useless to argue definition. Just call it different things. Call his/hers "no lying love", and yours "love without total commitment to not lying". Problem solved. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 We are at it again? It is just semantics .. just a definition. So he (or she) defines love as no lying. You define it differently. It is useless to argue definition. Just call it different things. Call his/hers "no lying love", and yours "love without total commitment to not lying". Problem solved. To be honest, I couldn't care less if she feels that is someone lies to her that means they don't love her, or if she lies to someone that means she doesn't love. I just get a little exhausted with narrow personal definitions that must fit everyone in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
PatFinkle Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Spouse-beaters often claim to "love" their spouse despite the physical abuse they are inflicting. Cheating is just emotional abuse. The act of abuse, physical or emotional, is the opposite of an expression of love. Therefore, no--a person can't cheat on a spouse if they love their spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
PatFinkle Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Please look at halfalive's thread today where she says her husband physically abused her. If anyone thinks that cheating can be done by a spouse who loves, then you would have to admit that halfalive's spouse loves her even though he beat her up. I don't agree. Both are horrible forms of abuse, one is emotional, one is physical, but both are abuse nonetheless. Anyone who tries to argue that a cheater loves their spouse is simply an apologist for emotional abusive cheaters. --Pat F Link to post Share on other sites
Author Memphis Raines Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I may be mistaken, but are you referring to me as a serial cheater? That would be interesting, as I havnt posted anything about myself as yet. well when one tells the forum they don't believe monogamy is natural, it stands to reason that they don't practice monogamy, and has cheated before. if we are wrong and you haven't cheated quite a few times, then just let us know Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 If one does not believe in monogamy, and is not monogamous, and their partners in whatever relationships they have are dutifully made aware of this, then one cannot by definition be a cheater. Right and wrong are not defined by any one individual. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 To be honest, I couldn't care less if she feels that is someone lies to her that means they don't love her, or if she lies to someone that means she doesn't love. I just get a little exhausted with narrow personal definitions that must fit everyone in the world. I NEVER EVER said anyone else had to do a damn thing and I'm getting a little exhausted with people thinking that because you share your own view and how you live that you are saying they must do the same and think the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Memphis Raines Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 If one does not believe in monogamy, and is not monogamous, and their partners in whatever relationships they have are dutifully made aware of this, then one cannot by definition be a cheater. sure, but if you think that people that make others dutifully aware that they won't be faithful, then they won't be in the relationship. and I dare to guess that most people that feel this way do NOT tell the other person. Otherwise they'd severely limit the people they can get in the sack. (unless they simply hang out at heathen hangouts where all people are interested in is sex) Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 well when one tells the forum they don't believe monogamy is natural, it stands to reason that they don't practice monogamy, and has cheated before. if we are wrong and you haven't cheated quite a few times, then just let us know I doubt it is really "natural" but I practice monogamy and have never cheated on someone who expected or believed they were getting a monogamous relationship from me. Couldn't someone else do this? I'm pretty sure I'm not so special that I'm the only one who can accomplish this. The doubt comes from biology. Naturally monogamous mammals are of equal size, only have sex for procreation and the males have small penises and small, internal testes. Naturally polygynous ones have even smaller penises, even smaller, internal testes, and the males are twice the size of the females. Promiscuous mammals exhibit what traits are found in us: a 10% - 20% size difference, larger penises, larger external testes, sex for pleasure, and do not as a rule like we try to do, live monogamously. A mammal that is naturally monogamous will not fail at monogamy because it comes to them naturally. Humans fail at monogamy pretty frequently so its a big stretch to claim monogamy is "natural" to us as a species. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 sure, but if you think that people that make others dutifully aware that they won't be faithful, then they won't be in the relationship. and I dare to guess that most people that feel this way do NOT tell the other person. Otherwise they'd severely limit the people they can get in the sack. (unless they simply hang out at heathen hangouts where all people are interested in is sex) There are lots of other cultures and societys and entire countries other than America that don't share your beliefs. I'm sure you're aware that not everyone believes as you do, and doesn't live by your rules, but what will probably come as a shock to you is that doesn't make them wrong nor you right. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 There are lots of other cultures and societys and entire countries other than America that don't share your beliefs. I'm sure you're aware that not everyone believes as you do, and doesn't live by your rules, but what will probably come as a shock to you is that doesn't make them wrong nor you right. Pray tell, which country is it admirable to be dishonest? Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I NEVER EVER said anyone else had to do a damn thing and I'm getting a little exhausted with people thinking that because you share your own view and how you live that you are saying they must do the same and think the same. Cool. Then what you said here: all I said was that lying to them and sneaking around hoping they never find out means you don't love them. pertains to yourself, not everyone. That's fine with me. Link to post Share on other sites
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