Are you serious? Really?

[Kitsune77]

I don't know you so no - I couldn't possibly make a call like that.

Somehow your words don't add up.

[Kitsune77]

uh? What kind of logic is that?

 

Computer is not natural. I am using one now.

 

Western medicine is not natural. I surely will take my pills when i am sick.

 

It does not stand to reason that someone will not practice monogamy just because they don't think it is natural. At least not all of them.

 

For summing up what I find difficult to verbaluse.

 

I also don't think war is natural, but I work with the military.

[donnamaybe]

Somehow your words don't add up.

What do you mean? No, I wasn't talking about you. I thought it was pretty clear. I was talking about the "self centered, bored" comment. Those words describe a serial cheater. Are you saying you are self centered and bored?

[Severely Unamused]

What do you mean? No, I wasn't talking about you. I thought it was pretty clear. I was talking about the "self centered, bored" comment. Those words describe a serial cheater. Are you saying you are self centered and bored?

 

To take a generalising statement so personally. That is interesting.

[John Michael Kane]

I try not to go over to the "other" part of this site and stay out of "their" forum for the most part, but still happen to read a few things based on "New Posts" and whatnot.

 

So I guess this is one of those, anyone else less than sympathetic posts?

 

I mean come on, there is some heavy whining of entitlement going on over there from people that are an accomplice to hurting others, and yet complain that its not fair about their MM/MW this, its not fair about their MM/MW that.

 

that would be like someone who likes to beat up other people trying to drum up sympathy when someone hands them their ass.

 

The complain about "fairness" when in a relationship with someone elses spouse.

 

Really?

 

There's always some childish drama over there.

[nyrias]

Pray tell, which country is it admirable to be dishonest?

 

Many liars are admired by many in America.

 

Bill Clinton has his supporters.

 

Al Gore has his supporters.

 

David Letterman is still popular.

 

Now if you lie and swindle billions out of people, you will be hated. Cheating? Not so much.

[donnamaybe]

Many liars are admired by many in America.

 

Bill Clinton has his supporters.

 

Al Gore has his supporters.

 

David Letterman is still popular.

 

Now if you lie and swindle billions out of people, you will be hated. Cheating? Not so much.

Please provide me a link showing that people have indicated their admiration of the lies themselves.

[sally4sara]

Was it ever really made clear to anyone that Hillary DIDN't know Bill got around? I must have missed that one. I figured it was between them and they might well have "an understanding" when it came to non monogamy.

[nyrias]

Was it ever really made clear to anyone that Hillary DIDN't know Bill got around? I must have missed that one. I figured it was between them and they might well have "an understanding" when it came to non monogamy.

 

Well, Bill did lie to the country. Didn't that mean something?

[nyrias]

Please provide me a link showing that people have indicated their admiration of the lies themselves.

 

Don't think there is any.

 

But the point is that lies does not prevent people to admire them for some other qualities. That cheating is not important enough to overcome other factors.

 

Heck, Clinton lied to the whole nation about his affairs.

[sally4sara]

Well, Bill did lie to the country. Didn't that mean something?

 

Yup. It meant that he didn't love the millions of people he didn't know first hand. A person's sex life shouldn't be something they have to answer for to the public at large.

[silktricks]

Well, Bill did lie to the country. Didn't that mean something?

 

Every politician lies to the country - doesn't seem to mean a thing. I don't think that someone who actually tells the truth would ever get elected.

[nyrias]

Every politician lies to the country - doesn't seem to mean a thing. I don't think that someone who actually tells the truth would ever get elected.

 

So .. lying to the nation is ok, .. more than that, it is expected.

 

And lying to ONE person .. one's spouse is not ok and the WS should be crucified?

 

We do have double standards. We should just do away with the silly notion of right and wrong and embrace lying & cheating. All the politicians are doing it anyway.

 

(and for those who are sarcasm-challenged, the last 2 sentences are meant to be sarcastic.)

[sally4sara]

So .. lying to the nation is ok, .. more than that, it is expected.

 

And lying to ONE person .. one's spouse is not ok and the WS should be crucified?

 

We do have double standards. We should just do away with the silly notion of right and wrong and embrace lying & cheating. All the politicians are doing it anyway.

 

(and for those who are sarcasm-challenged, the last 2 sentences are meant to be sarcastic.)

 

I don't see the double standard. You tell one person you love them and then you lie and betray them.

You don't profess your love to millions, make no promise of a sexual nature at all and suddenly your sex life becomes their business and you lie because you never dreamed you'd have to answer to so many strangers concerning your own private sex life.

 

Yes I DO think his lying to us was lesser than if he lied to Hillary - something I don't know to be fact. He shouldn't have to answer to us because he never promised us his fidelity. She could very well have known and been doing the same herself per some agreement between them. The point is we don't know if they had an agreement because it was never any of our business.

[ThePerfectOW]

I agree about not going "over there" if you have such a problem. Sometimes people get into things that they would not have imagined feelings would come up in the relationship. I am with a married man and he spent so much time with me, day and night, I had no idea he was married until someone told me 4 months into our relationship! I'm not justifying it, but I am sure no one is perfect and others that feel the same way you do, have made decisions that were not always accepted by everyone.

[wheelwright]

Because I've seen enough variation within the definition of marriage from the traditional to know what is most common to any one person is not the rule for everyone else. Marriage seems and equal opportunity for any style to sink or swim. In the US, we are yet again examining the right to marry and who has it with same sex marriage. And here on LS we hear of marriages that weathered sexual betrayal and remained in tact. Plus in the past year or so we've seen more posts about marriages where there is no expectation for monogamy than I remember there being back when I first came here. I try to include them all as viable options even if I have little experience with them because I don't believe any of them carry a guarantee for everyone.

 

I just know I've never seen hidden behavior or a lie that came from a place of love.

 

I would have replied sooner, but been away.

 

People lie to their children with intent to deceive about Santa.

 

We are forced to lie for our neighbours in war - in fact being able to lie and not betray is a key facet of loyal courage.

 

Lying is a part of our cultue as humans - we learn duplicity very early. In families. Often from a place of love when it comes to protecting people's feelings. And anyway, there are too many two way truths to be sure at the point of 'not lying'. Like I want to make you feel good, but I don't want to make X feel bad. It's a subtle art. We all play it.

 

What you are saying is more like 'I feel bad because someone fooled me. I want that ruled out, against the law, because it made me feel bad.'

 

Murder is bad because on the whole we all really don't like like that kind of thing.

 

Lying as a 'bad' thing, and even deceit, is a whole lot harder to uphold as a 'bad' thing.

 

Because we all do it all the time.

 

So what makes infidelity deceit so bad compared to the rest?

 

I really don't get this. The problem is that people don't like the idea of their WS getting off on someone else, because that hurts their ego, and threatens their family stability. So cite this as the problem.

 

That is understandable. Bring forward someone who never lies, always talks what is in their mind, and wouldn't protect someone from the truth, and then there may be a reason to listen to the rubbish about deceit that we commonly accept here as the truth.

[sally4sara]

I would have replied sooner, but been away.

 

People lie to their children with intent to deceive about Santa.

 

Yes and people do awful things to their supposed loved ones which I feel indicates a lack of love and respect. P.S. I didn't do the santa thing with my son. No santa, bunny, fairy, great pumpkin, jesus, angels or any of those lies. We celebrate the holidays and make them fun in other ways. Kids know vampires and zombies are not real but they still have fun during trick or treat yeah?

 

We are forced to lie for our neighbours in war - in fact being able to lie and not betray is a key facet of loyal courage.

 

What does that have to do with lying to your partner? Your neighbor - you might have to lie to for the sake of safety - yours or the safety of others, but it has nothing to do with lying to your partner whom you (universal you) claim to love.

 

Lying is a part of our cultue as humans - we learn duplicity very early. In families. Often from a place of love when it comes to protecting people's feelings. And anyway, there are too many two way truths to be sure at the point of 'not lying'. Like I want to make you feel good, but I don't want to make X feel bad. It's a subtle art. We all play it.

 

We've already covered this part. Kids lie because they are not mature enough or are unpracticed at selfless love. There are also people in messed up families that have to lie to avoid violent reprisal. I'd venture to say there is probably a lack of love going on there too. I know I sure didn't feel loved when my mother blacked my eye for not being able to find her purse fast enough so she could fish out lunch money for my brother.

 

What you are saying is more like 'I feel bad because someone fooled me. I want that ruled out, against the law, because it made me feel bad.'

 

Ooh we also already covered how much I dislike people putting words in my mouth. I know what I said and what I meant much better than you, a stranger on the internet, ever could.

I never said anything about making a law about it. If it was a law for me to stay in a relationship where I didn't feel loved THEN I would suggest laws about lying.

 

Murder is bad because on the whole we all really don't like like that kind of thing.

 

Lying as a 'bad' thing, and even deceit, is a whole lot harder to uphold as a 'bad' thing.

 

Because we all do it all the time.

 

So what makes infidelity deceit so bad compared to the rest?

 

I really don't get this. The problem is that people don't like the idea of their WS getting off on someone else, because that hurts their ego, and threatens their family stability. So cite this as the problem.

 

That is understandable. Bring forward someone who never lies, always talks what is in their mind, and wouldn't protect someone from the truth, and then there may be a reason to listen to the rubbish about deceit that we commonly accept here as the truth.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with that whole murder thing as no one is talking about murder - which is illegal BTW.

 

Believe it or not there are some people who DO like the idea of their spouse getting off on someone else. The term for it is "compersion". If this is their desire and all parties are aware and in agreement I don't see why it would necessarily have to result in hurt ego and family instability. More examples of why its pretty effed up to lie to your partner when you might just get what you desire more easily and with less drama by being honest.

 

And I keep answering the bolded question, not for anyone else - just how I feel about the matter. For you, I'll answer it again. What makes infidelity deceit so much worse than the rest is you looked into that person's eyes, told them you loved and respected them, accepted their love and trust, and agreed to be a partner. What good is a partner that doesn't treat you like a partner when you never had to be partners with them in the first place? If they can't doing it then they don't have to sign up for it let alone sign up for it with you (again the universal you).

[rafallus]

I would have replied sooner, but been away.

 

People lie to their children with intent to deceive about Santa.

 

We are forced to lie for our neighbours in war - in fact being able to lie and not betray is a key facet of loyal courage.

 

Lying is a part of our cultue as humans - we learn duplicity very early. In families. Often from a place of love when it comes to protecting people's feelings. And anyway, there are too many two way truths to be sure at the point of 'not lying'. Like I want to make you feel good, but I don't want to make X feel bad. It's a subtle art. We all play it.

 

What you are saying is more like 'I feel bad because someone fooled me. I want that ruled out, against the law, because it made me feel bad.'

 

Murder is bad because on the whole we all really don't like like that kind of thing.

 

Lying as a 'bad' thing, and even deceit, is a whole lot harder to uphold as a 'bad' thing.

 

Because we all do it all the time.

 

So what makes infidelity deceit so bad compared to the rest?

 

I really don't get this. The problem is that people don't like the idea of their WS getting off on someone else, because that hurts their ego, and threatens their family stability. So cite this as the problem.

 

That is understandable. Bring forward someone who never lies, always talks what is in their mind, and wouldn't protect someone from the truth, and then there may be a reason to listen to the rubbish about deceit that we commonly accept here as the truth.

 

Maybe that's because if cheating person actually talked it through with they partner (like, say, Gentlegirl) and get to some consensus, it would automatically not be cheating?

 

Murder actually isn't always frowned upon. Do you hate people who killed bin Laden or Hussein? I sure as hell don't.

[donnamaybe]

I would have replied sooner, but been away.

 

People lie to their children with intent to deceive about Santa.

 

We are forced to lie for our neighbours in war - in fact being able to lie and not betray is a key facet of loyal courage.

Um, yeah. You are describing lying for a good cause. Lying to a spouse so a person can sneak around and FORCE them to live a lie is a selfish, greedy, self absorbed, destructive, and hurtful kind of lie.

 

NEXT!

[donnamaybe]

I really don't get this. The problem is that people don't like the idea of their WS getting off on someone else, because that hurts their ego, and threatens their family stability. So cite this as the problem.

I'm sure this is what you truly would like to believe because it would make the betrayed party culpable by virtue of their "ego" rather than the sneaky liar by virtue of their snake-in-the-grass antics.

[StoneCold]

Um, yeah. You are describing lying for a good cause. Lying to a spouse so a person can sneak around and FORCE them to live a lie is a selfish, greedy, self absorbed, destructive, and hurtful kind of lie.

 

NEXT!

 

Its all relative and subject to a matter of opinion....

 

 

NEXT

[donnamaybe]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blaaaahhhhhhh..............

[StoneCold]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blaaaahhhhhhh..............

 

very telling

[Owl]

Lying as a 'bad' thing, and even deceit, is a whole lot harder to uphold as a 'bad' thing.

 

Because we all do it all the time.

 

So what makes infidelity deceit so bad compared to the rest?

 

I really don't get this. The problem is that people don't like the idea of their WS getting off on someone else, because that hurts their ego, and threatens their family stability. So cite this as the problem.

 

That is understandable. Bring forward someone who never lies, always talks what is in their mind, and wouldn't protect someone from the truth, and then there may be a reason to listen to the rubbish about deceit that we commonly accept here as the truth.

 

The scope/size of the lie/deception.

 

No one is shattered by the "I lied about not gassing up the car the other night".

 

But they typically are shattered by the "I promised to be faithful and true to you, but I wasn't".

 

It doesn't take some form of incredible perception to see this.

 

Have you considered that you don't "get it" because you don't want to "get it"?

 

Our perception is most often colored by our own minds. You don't see the same things that others see because you choose to see them differently than others do. Everyone witnessed the same event...but INTERPRETED it differently in their own minds.

[donnamaybe]

Yep, Owl, it's very interesting that the only people who continually chew on that bone of contention are cheaters or AP.