Any legal tips for a BS here?

[2.50 a gallon]

Your have never mentioned the number and ages of your children. I am guessing that they are in their teens.

 

I would suggest that you try to get them some counseling

 

Children quite often as do betrayed spouses, when trying to make sense of something this traumatic, tend to take take the position that they are to blame.

 

They need help to sort thru this

[carhill]

In a prior post, the OP mentions:

 

My younger son (8) had a great time. Older one (16) had very mixed feelings. Something to keep their minds busy anyway. Hope you all had a good weekend too.

[2.50 a gallon]

I am retired so have been around and seen a lot

 

It has been my experience that quite often when the children of a broken family, especially when one walks out such as your wife has done, once they reach adulthood, they tend to totally cut off the person who cheated in the marriage, and blame them for the breakup of the family

 

The story of Grandma M

 

For over a dozen years I lived in the same apartment complex. One of my fellow tenants was an elderly lady the kids called Grandma M. The complex was about a block away from an elementary school. And everyday as the kids came home they had to pass her apartment, Daily she would be out on her porch talking to them as they passed.

 

She loved kids, and told everybody about her grandkids and how they lived thousands of miles away.

 

During the summer I quite often attended the little league games. On one such occassion I ran into an old high school friend who was watching one of his grandkids play. It just so happened that he noticed Grandma M drive by in her convertable, and said to his mom, "there goes the wh%re"

 

That is when I found out that the lady whom I thought was his mom was actually his step mom, and Grandma M was his birth mom. His mom had pulled about the same thing as your wife is doing to you over 50 years ago

 

He had two brothers and a sister, and only one of the brothers had moved out of town. The rest of the family was still living locally.

 

They wanted nothing to do with her. She had a dozen grandchildren, that she had never met or seen, and an even larger number of great grandchildren. And she had just driven by the school not knowing that one of her great grandsons was playing baseball a block away from her apartment.

 

She passed away a couple of years back, not knowing that the first of her great great grandkids had been born six months previous at a hospital a little more than a mile away

[Saul Goodman]

I followed LifesontheUp's advice. Wife really didn't like that at all.

 

Guess I'll just have to wait until next week to see what what her plan is. Seems like this will be the end of any contact between us for a while.

 

this is great advice Saul - treat her like a business transaction, your only contact should be about 1) the kids 2) divorce matters. If your kids have their own cell phones leave it up to their mom and them to keep contact, if they don't then let them know that they can use the phone to call her whenever they want, when she does call just listen to the above advice from Lifeson....

I did suggest that she talk to our kids personally. She doesn't want to do that. My theory: Probably because our 16 year old would tear her a new a-hole.

 

@2.50: Yeah, I'm taking them to counseling and talking to them about all these sudden changes. The older son understands completely and he's starting to think that there is an OM involved ("It's always another man" in his words). Wise beyond his years.

 

Our 8 year old is still holding out hope.

 

Very depressing story about Grandma M. That's a good way to put a downer on my Friday night.

[andyg99]

 

@2.50: Yeah, I'm taking them to counseling and talking to them about all these sudden changes. The older son understands completely and he's starting to think that there is an OM involved ("It's always another man" in his words). Wise beyond his years.

 

 

Tell the counselor that your son suspects his mom is having an affair, I'm wondering if he'll suggest that you tell him he's right. At 16 he might resent finding out some other way when he basically has already told you, he may not appreciate that you felt he couldn't handle it. It's a tough one, that's why I suggest getting the counselors opinion... BTW, I know if you told him you would do it in a way without bashing his mom, you're a good man and would never put the kids in between you two...

[Alive_Again]

Saul, I wouldn't get too down about 2.50's story. It may have been clear in Grandma M's case that her kids/grandkids were punishing her for having an affair, but I really don't think it's that straightforward most of the time. So many things contribute to affairs, or abuse, or divorce, or abandonment. Marriage is such a complex thing and of course both partners contribute when things go wrong. You've already realized that yourself (let me add my congratulations to others').

 

As for your latest question - should you talk to your elder son about what he said about the OM - my answer would be no. By all means tell him you're there to talk to about whatever, but the reasons for the two of you splitting are "grownup stuff" and like I said before, I don't think it's that simple. Besides, the pain of his parents separating/divorcing remains even if he's found a handy explanation for it, and that's not gonna help him deal with it. Not only that, do you really want him to approach his own partner relationships with the simplistic attitude that if he can just keep his own GF/lover/wife/whatever from getting involved with someone else, everything will be hunky dory?

 

One more thing - he doesn't need to know RIGHT NOW. Despite his mom not talking to him now, I'm assuming he'll have a relationship with her for the rest of her life, and unless she's very, very, careful and secretive, he'll find out one day when he's better able to handle that. He'll get to know his mom on his own terms, and if one day she horribly regrets having that affair, he'll find that out too. If he's wise beyond his years, all the better!

 

I haven't read all of your posts, although I have read your original post in this thread, so I realize I'm probably skimming over some pretty important issues and I'll apologize in advance. FWIW, nothing, absolutely nothing you could have done could cause as much pain as your kids' mother not talking to them. My heart goes out to them.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Alive_Again

[Saul Goodman]

Tell the counselor that your son suspects his mom is having an affair, I'm wondering if he'll suggest that you tell him he's right. At 16 he might resent finding out some other way when he basically has already told you, he may not appreciate that you felt he couldn't handle it. It's a tough one, that's why I suggest getting the counselors opinion... BTW, I know if you told him you would do it in a way without bashing his mom, you're a good man and would never put the kids in between you two...

 

I actually did bring this up with the two counselors we've seen. Maybe we'll try a third one.

 

From their advice, judging from my own son's character (he doesn't like being kept in the dark and infantalised, same with most teens), and from the way that I would like to be treated were I in his shoes, I think I know what I'll do.

 

If he walks up to me and straight up asks "is mum having an affair?" I won't lie to his face and I won't treat him like an idiot. I'll give him an honest "yes". If he doesn't ask me (which seems unlikely with the way things are going), than I will keep my mouth shut on this issue.

 

You're right. Turning the kids against their mother is not something that I want. Unfortunately, it is very hard for me to keep things neutral, at least with my oldest. In his mind, 16 years of being a good parent has been completely overwritten by this past month. What my oldest wants is an explanation from his mother, which she isn't giving. I haven't been able to change his opinion.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[LifesontheUp]

I followed LifesontheUp's advice. Wife really didn't like that at all.

 

Guess I'll just have to wait until next week to see what what her plan is. Seems like this will be the end of any contact between us for a while.

 

I did suggest that she talk to our kids personally. She doesn't want to do that. My theory: Probably because our 16 year old would tear her a new a-hole.

 

I'm glad you set her straight Saul. I just cannot get over how entitled some people feel that they can have an affair, run off and then still expect to ring their BS on a weekly basis - for what??? Hasn't she hurt her family enough????

 

Sorry for the rant but she does need to grow up. Hopefully she has a week to think things through and maybe during that time she will consider her kids in all this mess. If your 16yr old tears her off a strip then sorry she deserves it and she will have to face it at some point as actions have consequences.

 

I was 16 going on 17 when I found out about my mothers affair. At that age I made my own mind up what I thought about it all. Your son is old enough to work out what is going on here and I think that its inevitable that you will have to have a discussion with him over it soon.

 

Good luck.

[Steen719]

Hey Life

I wanted to ask you something. My son will be 21 next month and he just found out that his D had an affair when he was 7 and has recently reconnected with this woman. I did not tell him when he was 7 what was going on, just that Dad wanted to move back to another city and loved him and wished we were going so that we could be close to him and that the problems were between us, not him. STBXH told me last week that he had told son when this was going on years ago that he had a girlfriend, but either son did not process his or blocked it. Son asked me repeatedly (recently) what was going on and if his dad had an affair back then and I finally told him yes and he had re-contacted her and with all else that had gone on, I was filing for divorce. He is angry with his dad, still talks to him on the phone when his dad calls (son is away at college), but does not want to come home. I am going to see him in Oct., but I am concerned that by telling him, I have hurt their relationship in a way that won't recover and that was most assuredly not my intent. The psychologist that I was seeing did tell me that he thought son was old enough and would understand..that it at least could explain the split after 22 years of marriage.

 

So...sorry for the long story....but, when you found out, did someone tell you? Your dad or mom? Or did you figure it out? Do you have a good relationship with your mom now? If someone told you...were you mad that they told you? Do you think it affected your relationships? Sorry for all of the questions, but I have wanted to ask someone about this and since Saul will be facing this, also, I don't feel too bad about my jacking this.

 

Thank you very much.

[andyg99]

comments in bold

 

STBXH told me last week that he had told son when this was going on years ago that he had a girlfriend, but either son did not process his or blocked it.

 

or he is lying to you and never told your son a thing

 

Son asked me repeatedly (recently) what was going on and if his dad had an affair back then and I finally told him yes and he had re-contacted her and with all else that had gone on, I was filing for divorce. He is angry with his dad, still talks to him on the phone when his dad calls (son is away at college), but does not want to come home. I am going to see him in Oct., but I am concerned that by telling him, I have hurt their relationship in a way that won't recover and that was most assuredly not my intent.

No! his dad hurt the relationship - don't even for on second even think that YOU did anything wrong!

 

The psychologist that I was seeing did tell me that he thought son was old enough and would understand..that it at least could explain the split after 22 years of marriage.

 

Hey, he's 21 - he deserves the truth... if he was much younger of course you wouldn't go through any details...

 

So...sorry for the long story....but, when you found out, did someone tell you? Your dad or mom? Or did you figure it out? Do you have a good relationship with your mom now? If someone told you...were you mad that they told you? Do you think it affected your relationships? Sorry for all of the questions, but I have wanted to ask someone about this and since Saul will be facing this, also, I don't feel too bad about my jacking this.

 

Thank you very much.

[LifesontheUp]

Hey Life

I wanted to ask you something. My son will be 21 next month and he just found out that his D had an affair when he was 7 and has recently reconnected with this woman. I did not tell him when he was 7 what was going on, just that Dad wanted to move back to another city and loved him and wished we were going so that we could be close to him and that the problems were between us, not him. STBXH told me last week that he had told son when this was going on years ago that he had a girlfriend, but either son did not process his or blocked it. Son asked me repeatedly (recently) what was going on and if his dad had an affair back then and I finally told him yes and he had re-contacted her and with all else that had gone on, I was filing for divorce. He is angry with his dad, still talks to him on the phone when his dad calls (son is away at college), but does not want to come home. I am going to see him in Oct., but I am concerned that by telling him, I have hurt their relationship in a way that won't recover and that was most assuredly not my intent. The psychologist that I was seeing did tell me that he thought son was old enough and would understand..that it at least could explain the split after 22 years of marriage.

 

So...sorry for the long story....but, when you found out, did someone tell you? Your dad or mom? Or did you figure it out? Do you have a good relationship with your mom now? If someone told you...were you mad that they told you? Do you think it affected your relationships? Sorry for all of the questions, but I have wanted to ask someone about this and since Saul will be facing this, also, I don't feel too bad about my jacking this.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I was in my last term of important school exams - so was back and fro the house. When I got home, my mum who was a SAHM was on the phone and would practically ignore me and continue to whisper into the phone. I usually went upstairs but started to sneak and listen and worked out she was chatting sexually with someone other than my dad. I spent quite a number days in the dilemma of what to do, but it was taken out of my hands because my dad suspected and had put a recorder on the phone.

 

I , my brother and sister despised what she had done. My father left home as a result. In all of our eyes, our mum was to blame even though our father wasn't perfect - who is eh?

 

Yes all us siblings have a relationship with our mum to this day. However it isn't a close relationship, you would need to know our mother to understand why. She has narcassitic tendancies and she never apologised for what she did.. She still talks as if her affair was our dads fault even after all these years and he has passed away.

 

Do not blame yourself for what your husband did. Your son is old enough to make his own mind up.

[Steen719]

Thank you Andy and Life...I wondered about the idea that he really may not have told my son when he was 7, but I'm not sure if he did or did not and I am not going to ask my son. I really don't say much about his dad when I talk to him. I am trying to let the two of them figure out where they are in their relationship. And Life, my H is saying that I am tearing up the family and told me today that he told my son he does not want the divorce and I am the one who is doing this. I know my son knows why I am doing this and really, if H took some responsibility for what he did, he might at least get some respect from my son.

 

Andy, I can't imagine what your son feels like at 16 that his mother just up and left and of course, the 18 year old, too. In the choices you have, leaving you for another man is probably better than her just leaving you and the kids there for no reason..if that makes sense. There is some reason for it, even if it is a horrible reason.

 

Lots of days, I just don't get this. I really just do not.

 

Thank you both.

[Saul Goodman]

Reading up about Life's mum, and Steen's husband (and probably andy's wife) makes me think: If they are going to pull sh_t like this off, why can't they at least take personal ownership of their actions? Why is it always somebody else's fault? It's your fault. It's society's fault. Religion's fault. Facebook's fault. Monogamy's fault. Job's fault. Ect.

 

I don't ask that out of bitterness or anger. Serious question. Is it pathological (Life did say that her mum had narcissistic tendencies) or what? The need to continuously lie to such a level makes me wonder.

 

Here's an example: I know a guy that has cheated on every girlfriend he has ever been with. So I asked: Why don't you just find somebody that wants a casual/open relationship and stop breaking other people's hearts? Then he said "I don't believe in monogamy". My reply was "No sh_t, I kinda figured. The problem is that your girlfriend doesn't know that". His response was "Well, that's her problem. She should have figured that out when she got involved with a guy like me".

 

Que?

Edited September 5, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Steen719]

Sorry...in previous post, I meant 8 year old, not 18 and I meant Saul, not Andy (with the 16 and 8 year old) had the kids. I am nuts!

 

Saul, my husband has lied about other things to me...even things that do not matter. Both my son and I have noticed this and we finally just let it go. Bringing it to his attention did not stop him from doing it. I may be wrong, but I don't even think he thinks about it. He also has blamed me for many things throughout our married life. He is a "blamer" and I do think his lying problem is pathological.

 

It's too bad the guy you described doesn't come with a warning. Geez! How are you supposed to know what someone is like before you find out? By the time many of us find out what we have involved ourselves with, we are married and have kids, houses, etc.

 

Saul, I know you will do the right thing by your kids and as Life said, you will have to have the conversation with your son soon. I almost had a panic attack before I talked to my son and it was actually easier because he already "knew". Best to you.

[Saul Goodman]

@Steen: Ah, so you do have a genuine pathological liar for a husband?

 

Funny story about the guy that I mentioned: Once when he was younger, he broke up with one of his first girlfriends during the limo ride home, after the school dance. I just wonder whether or not he was in fact a supreme d_ckhole, or if simply did not understand why a 20 minute car ride with a crying, heartbroken teenage girl would be awkward. The latter would lead me to believe that he has a psychological issue.

 

Looking back at some of my wife's actions, I think that the pathological problem ("she's gone batsh_t insane") excuse would explain a lot. Still, that could just be a convenient coping mechanism for me to use to make sense of this whole situation. It seems kinda lazy to just call her crazy. Or she really could be batsh_t insane. She'd probably need to see a professional and that ain't happening.

 

I have read a couple of stories on this site, and seen a few cases IRL, where the WS simply entered a psychological downwards spiral and made a big mess.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Steen719]

Yeah, Saul, I do think so. I mean, some of his lies were to protect himself from any consequences, but here is an example. It is pretty extreme, as most of his lies were not like this. My son and I once heard him tell someone that he had worked in Saudi Arabia. We were off to the side and looked at each other and said (to each other)....what? I later asked him what he thought he was accomplishing by saying that and he finally said..well, I almost went. Who knows if that is even true. Some of his lies, like the above one, was to make him look better in someone's eyes. Sort of nuts, huh?

 

Also, he blamed me for everything. I got so used to it, I didn't even think about it when it happened anymore. For example, if he forgot to stop and get something when we were going somewhere, he would say "you forgot to tell me". I got to where I would just say "yeah, yeah". He lacks insight. It is sad. He just told me that I was getting divorced because I couldn't back out or I would lose face. I really think he believes that and in a way, I can't blame him. I stayed through a lot of crap. Never-the-less, he has no insight into his part of this. He has never said he was sorry about this latest crap and still telling me that I have misunderstood everything. UGH!

 

In your situation with your wife, I admit it does seem really crazy because of your kids. I just can't wrap my head around that, so a pathological insanity sounds about right. How sad it must be for you to see your kids suffer. I was as sad for my son as I was for me that this all happened. Thank God they have you.

 

About that guy...that reminded me of my nephew's girlfriend. He dated her all through high school and in his first year of college, she called him on the freakin phone and broke up with him. My brother said he had never felt so bad for one of his kids. He drove to the college, took my nephew out to lunch and watched him just sob. Heartless!

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah, I don't really want to go with the "she's gone nuts" idea. I know that life and relationships are complicated and all that...

 

But it does take a certain amount of crazy sauce to lie to somebody's face for around a year and a half, waste time and money in MC, run off and abandon the kids when caught out, burn pretty much all your bridges within the span of a month, and behave erratically over the phone for weeks now.

 

That's love for ya.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Alive_Again]

Guys (by which I mean both female and male), this thread is setting off triggers for me all over the place! Several of the people you're talking about remind me of my ex - not so much the lying - he doesn't lie so much as bluff - but he's so into blaming others. Saul, that chilling quote from the guy you knew - "she should have figured me out" (I know that's not verbatim, but close enough) - could have been from my ex. Everything is always someone else's fault or problem.

 

Not to hijack your thread, Saul, but this is all so pertinent to what I'm going through that I just had to respond, and with a question. You all have *recent* experience of your ex's lies, pathologies, whatever. You all have evidence that shows they're crazy/troubled/dangerous. What if you're some 10 years removed from the marriage, but you sense that nothing's changed? And what if your kids are still under their influence? Saul (yeah, know that's not your real name but what else can I call you), suppose that 5 years down the road you and your ex-wife agree that your now 8-year-old can go live w/her, at least part of the time, and it all gets sorted out legally, but then you find out some things - from neighbors or common acquaintances or even something your now 13-year-old says innocently and inadvertently - that make you worry about him? What would you do? Life? Andy? Steen?

 

Sorry to butt in and seem so familiar with your stories but I did read your whole thread and everyone's input and it is setting off all kinds of alarms for me. And maybe it's something to think about, Saul - insisting on a psych eval if she ever comes back and wants to be a mom again. Just trying to give back a little bit here ...

[Saul Goodman]

I gotcha AA.

 

Right now it would be quite difficult for my wife to see our sons, for legal and emotional reasons.

 

With the way that she has been acting recently, I'd be very hesitant to just let the kids see her so quickly. If she is capable of doing what she has done, who knows what she could pull off next?

 

Having her checked out first might not be a bad idea.

[andyg99]

What if you're some 10 years removed from the marriage, but you sense that nothing's changed? And what if your kids are still under their influence? Saul (yeah, know that's not your real name but what else can I call you), suppose that 5 years down the road you and your ex-wife agree that your now 8-year-old can go live w/her, at least part of the time, and it all gets sorted out legally, but then you find out some things - from neighbors or common acquaintances or even something your now 13-year-old says innocently and inadvertently - that make you worry about him? What would you do? Life? Andy? Steen?

 

 

I started a thread here (titled 'My Story') - I was 15 years removed from my marriage... go read that thread and you'll hear one story about letting someone back into your life...

[Steen719]

Guys (by which I mean both female and male), this thread is setting off triggers for me all over the place! Several of the people you're talking about remind me of my ex - not so much the lying - he doesn't lie so much as bluff - but he's so into blaming others. Saul, that chilling quote from the guy you knew - "she should have figured me out" (I know that's not verbatim, but close enough) - could have been from my ex. Everything is always someone else's fault or problem.

 

Not to hijack your thread, Saul, but this is all so pertinent to what I'm going through that I just had to respond, and with a question. You all have *recent* experience of your ex's lies, pathologies, whatever. You all have evidence that shows they're crazy/troubled/dangerous. What if you're some 10 years removed from the marriage, but you sense that nothing's changed? And what if your kids are still under their influence? Saul (yeah, know that's not your real name but what else can I call you), suppose that 5 years down the road you and your ex-wife agree that your now 8-year-old can go live w/her, at least part of the time, and it all gets sorted out legally, but then you find out some things - from neighbors or common acquaintances or even something your now 13-year-old says innocently and inadvertently - that make you worry about him? What would you do? Life? Andy? Steen?

 

Sorry to butt in and seem so familiar with your stories but I did read your whole thread and everyone's input and it is setting off all kinds of alarms for me. And maybe it's something to think about, Saul - insisting on a psych eval if she ever comes back and wants to be a mom again. Just trying to give back a little bit here ...

 

If the kids are already back with the ex, I would investigate quickly and if the kids are possibly going to be going back to the ex, I would investigate and not let them go until you are sure. I think if you know the ex that well and your gut tells you that something is off, it usually is. I don't think there is a lot of hope for narcissistic personalities, which is what I think my H is, But, I don't know what your concern is and it sounds a little scary, so it is hard to tell what you mean about your worry?

[Saul Goodman]

I don't think there is a lot of hope for narcissistic personalities

 

As I recall, the rehabilitation rate for narcissists is around 10%. Or something in that area. Perhaps somebody with more expertise can correct me.

 

Anyway, it's really low.

[Steen719]

One article I read said Narcissistic Personality Disorder is one of the three most difficult to treat. I'm not sure H has the disorder, but he certainly has some of the characteristics (at least 1 and 3 of these).

 

They tend to blame others or their own fate for their failures.

 

They cannot stand with grace, success or progress of their partner, co-worker or colleague. Normally they get resentful and bitter towards happiness of others.

 

They are selfish in nature and demonstrate dictator like nature, driving others to do work according to their dictates or expressed will.

 

http://www.charminghealth.com/applicability/narcissism.htm

[Saul Goodman]

I don't think that the flowers are going to help much.

 

Anyway, I'm fairly sure that my wife isn't a narcissist. Although, her recent behaviour is definitely on the crazier side of things.

 

I just wonder: Has she been hiding this side of her from me for decades (maybe I'm just dense)? Or is this a recent development?

[LifesontheUp]

I don't think that the flowers are going to help much.

 

Anyway, I'm fairly sure that my wife isn't a narcissist. Although, her recent behaviour is definitely on the crazier side of things.

 

I just wonder: Has she been hiding this side of her from me for decades (maybe I'm just dense)? Or is this a recent development?

 

Sounds like your wifes selfish entitled behaviour is more a recent development.

 

My mum had signs of narcissism for years before her affair (could have had more I don't know). She has been diagnosed as such, was supposed to receive treatment for it but decided that there wasn't anything wrong with her and never went to another session

 

So are you prepared for a call from your wife this week Saul?