Any legal tips for a BS here?

[Alive_Again]

I just wonder: Has she been hiding this side of her from me for decades (maybe I'm just dense)? Or is this a recent development?

 

Gaahhhh, I've been wondering the exact same thing about my ex for years! But my basic assumption is always that I was dense or naive. I ignored some pretty obvious signs (which is why I'm so worried about missing my kids' signals, see my own post, "Reality Check?").

 

Funny, I have some memories of him that stand out, I thought for no reason. But now almost every single one fits in with the profile of a narcissist. Like a puzzle. And FWIW, the posts on your thread added a few more!

[Steen719]

No, I don't think your wife is displaying narcissism, but, like AA, I knew some of the signs and of course the affair several years ago was a big red flag..duh!! But the lying and building himself up (sometimes at my expense), his obvious concern for himself over me were all there and I just went along for the ride. I guess the things he did were not as important to me until all of the other crap happened.

 

You know, though, I have heard of 2 different women (just this past week), personally known to me, who have decided that they missed a lot when they got married and just decided they were unhappy and left. The one woman got pregnant while in college, kept the baby and then subsequently married a man who I would say is a really good man. He adopted that child and they had three more. She told him that she missed out on her "fun" years and started going out all of the time, seeing other (at least one that I know of) men and then left her husband. The kids are 18 to 11 and the youngest three stayed with her, but the youngest, a girl wants to be with her dad. He built the house they lived in and yet he ended up having to leave. He is a better parent, yet she has custody..he has visitation. I mean, she can't go back to her youth...what does she think? No one really understands it. The other just up and left.

 

I read it on here every day. I don't know if it was there all along with these women or if all of a sudden, they just decide they want more out of life. I guess the difference is...don't get mad...that men have sort of been doing this for a long time, but in the past, you almost never heard of women doing it. Women have always seemed to have this bond with their children that makes them stay with someone through bad stuff and try to protect their kids. I don't know...I have a really hard time thinking about either parent voluntarily leaving a child completely, but my gender bias really makes me think a mother doing it is "unnatural" in some way. I admit my bias and I am not saying it is right, but it is how I feel.

 

I don't understand your wife is doing this; I really don't and of course, your kids don't either. Anyway, I think we all miss some "signs" of things, but sometimes we don't know what those signs can mean for us down the road.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Steen719

[Saul Goodman]

Sounds like your wifes selfish entitled behaviour is more a recent development.

I agree.

 

An interesting thought: The feelings that "love" can bring are quite adept at overriding common sense (in other words, the chemicals in your brain f_ck up other chemicals in your brain). So, were we all "blinded" by love? And has my wife been blinded by love too?

 

Personally, I'm not a trusting person of most (my close friends and family being exceptions). So me being blinded by love seems quite likely. When you see the best in people you often gloss over the worst. You think "Well, she's seeing her personal trainer more often than she used to. And she's using that expensive perfume again. Huh, her phone is turned off. Is that a packet of condoms in her handbag? Nope, nothing suspicious going on here."

 

Love and denial are so very intertwined.

 

So are you prepared for a call from your wife this week Saul?

Only one way to find out. I'm expecting nuclear fallout.

 

I don't understand your wife is doing this

I have the answer. Because she wants to. Because she chooses to.

 

We are searching for complex motivations. Often when broken down, the reasons for our actions are surprisingly petty and simple.

 

My own actions this past month: Self-preservation.

[Saul Goodman]

Insomnia is back.

 

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[speedster]

 

....

 

I have the answer. Because she wants to. Because she chooses to.

 

We are searching for complex motivations. Often when broken down, the reasons for our actions are surprisingly petty and simple.

 

My own actions this past month: Self-preservation.

 

 

exactly right. i came to this conclusion as well. the simplest answer is often the right one.

 

i hope you're getting some rest.

[Alive_Again]

Insomnia is back.

 

One way of beating insomnia that works for me: Think about something that has steps, preferably something boring. Like what you pass on your way to work. If you're lucky, you'll fall asleep before you ever get there!

 

Here's something my therapist taught me that helps anxiety in general and stops racing thoughts: Describe how you're feeling right at the moment with three adjectives. You can extend that to what's around you. How's your pillowcase? Rough or smooth? Cool or warm? What color are your walls? How was your dinner? I dunno, might sound stupid but it works for me.

[Saul Goodman]

-UUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!

 

I'll try your advice AA.

[andyg99]

-UUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!

 

I'll try your advice AA.

 

you beat the insomnia before, you'll do it again... it's all part of that roller coaster we all hate to ride, I promise you the ride will end soon, just stay the course my friend...

[Steen719]

I take the WM equate version of Unisom. I had never tried it before, but recently got it and it does work and no grogginess the next day. I only sleep about 7 hours a night, and it helps me get to sleep, but not sure about if it helps with staying asleep since I never have that problem. Yawn..good night!!

[Saul Goodman]

I've got it you guys. I brought this up earlier in the thread.

 

I'll repeatedly bash my head against a wall.

[Trimmer]

I've got it you guys. I brought this up earlier in the thread.

 

I'll repeatedly bash my head against a wall.

Heh, are you speaking literally, or metaphorically?

 

Probably both...

[Saul Goodman]

Got some sleep without relying on any concussions.

 

Heh, are you speaking literally, or metaphorically?

 

Probably both...

 

Ah Trimmer, I sometimes wish I was as manly as you are. Not one ounce of sarcasm there. A little bit of homoeroticism though.

 

Anyway, it's Friday. Nerves are getting to me.

[Arcee]

I started reading this thread last night and had to wait till tonight to finish it off.... there are so many points that came up that I would like to comment on but most slip by as I move on to the next.

 

@ lifesontheup you said

I remember telling someone when I found out about my xH affair it was like grieving the loss of someone you love but the body is still here. So hard to go through the grief when you can still see them

 

I left my husband for a few days, not when I found out about the affair but a few weeks later when I found out he was still lieing and had created a new Facebook account and was freinds with the OW on it. We run a homestay and I returned home to it on the day before my sons bday so my husband could not say that I kept him from him on this day. The next day, my sons bday one of our guests heard that his gran back in UK had died and was very upset. I obvioulsy did not give him enough sympathy as he posted a bad review on Trip Advisor saying he felt let down. But I sent him a persoanl email expaining that I was greiving too... having just found out my husband had been cheating with a friend for 2 years. He never replied. But I know the hurt of this affair is 100 x worse than anythiong I felt when any of my grandparents died!

[Saul Goodman]

I started reading this thread last night and had to wait till tonight to finish it off.... there are so many points that came up that I would like to comment on but most slip by as I move on to the next.

 

@ lifesontheup you said

 

I left my husband for a few days, not when I found out about the affair but a few weeks later when I found out he was still lieing and had created a new Facebook account and was freinds with the OW on it. We run a homestay and I returned home to it on the day before my sons bday so my husband could not say that I kept him from him on this day. The next day, my sons bday one of our guests heard that his gran back in UK had died and was very upset. I obvioulsy did not give him enough sympathy as he posted a bad review on Trip Advisor saying he felt let down. But I sent him a persoanl email expaining that I was greiving too... having just found out my husband had been cheating with a friend for 2 years. He never replied. But I know the hurt of this affair is 100 x worse than anythiong I felt when any of my grandparents died!

 

Sorry to hear that.

 

I don't know if finding out about my wife's affair was comparable to the death of a loved one. It feels like an entirely different thing. Can't put it into words.

 

It isn't like a relationship ending...my ego can handle rejection. You feel like you've been manipulated. You second guess yourself. It's a huge mind f__k to suddenly go from "Well, our relationship isn't perfect but we'll work through it like we've always done" to "Oh, you've been plotting to leave me for the past year and a half. Swell."

 

That's the damage that long term deception can do to you.

 

I guess I just don't like the unambiguity of it all. The affair wasn't necessary-you can end a relationship without finding a safety net first. An exit affair is disrespectful. No arguments there.

 

Don't get me wrong: Some BSs are huge jerks-the WS warns them and warns them but the BS ignores all the signs. But there are plenty of cases where the WS is just selfish. So for the BSs, do some introspection and find out where you went wrong: Maybe neither of you handled issues well, maybe you had communication problems, and/or maybe you didn't notice that your WS was a jerk. Learn.

 

Me personally, I can safely say that my wife was just selfish. She hasn't offered any rational explanation for her actions. She contradicts herself all the time. She just doesn't like being called out on her actions. That's why she hasn't made any contact with our kids, and that's why she does her best to talk over me. She defines conflict avoidant behavour. I find it difficult to show her any respect.

 

So for the BSs here, don't beat yourself up too bad. I found out that my trust was placed on an untrustworthy person. I could have been a better husband. I made some mistakes. We all make mistakes.

 

Anyway, no phone calls from her yesterday.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[carson2002]

Sorry to hear that.

 

I don't know if finding out about my wife's affair was comparable to the death of a loved one. It feels like an entirely different thing. Can't put it into words.

 

It isn't like a relationship ending...my ego can handle rejection. You feel like you've been manipulated. You second guess yourself. It's a huge mind f__k to suddenly go from "Well, our relationship isn't perfect but we'll work through it like we've always done" to "Oh, you've been plotting to leave me for the past year and a half. Swell."

 

That's the damage that long term deception can do to you.

 

I guess I just don't like the unambiguity of it all. The affair wasn't necessary-you can end a relationship without finding a safety net first. An exit affair is disrespectful. No arguments there.

 

Don't get me wrong: Some BSs are huge jerks-the WS warns them and warns them but the BS ignores all the signs. But there are plenty of cases where the WS is just selfish. So for the BSs, do some introspection and find out where you went wrong: Maybe neither of you handled issues well, maybe you had communication problems, and/or maybe you didn't notice that your WS was a jerk. Learn.

 

Me personally, I can safely say that my wife was just selfish. She hasn't offered any rational explanation for her actions. She contradicts herself all the time. She just doesn't like being called out on her actions. That's why she hasn't made any contact with our kids, and that's why she does her best to talk over me. She defines conflict avoidant behavour. I find it difficult to show her any respect.

 

So for the BSs here, don't beat yourself up too bad. I found out that my trust was placed on an untrustworthy person. I could have been a better husband. I made some mistakes. We all make mistakes.

 

Anyway, no phone calls from her yesterday.

 

Totaly agree, it's like you've been living my life for the last few months. Funny how you could swap and change these liars and cheats around most of the BS's on here and we'd hardly notice any difference in what they say and do.

[Saul Goodman]

Totaly agree, it's like you've been living my life for the last few months. Funny how you could swap and change these liars and cheats around most of the BS's on here and we'd hardly notice any difference in what they say and do.

 

True. We all got f__ked, and we all f__ked up.

 

The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and get on with our lives, to the best of our abilities...

 

For some men, that will mean that they never get married again. Never get into serious LTRs again. A lot of guys got burned far too many times and got tired of taking the risk.

 

I know a couple of guys like that. Some of them were just poor people pickers: I met their wives and genuinely thought "Oh dude, she is going to break your heart in 5 years time", and I was usually right. Some of them were just stupid _ssholes, they abused or neglected their wives, and treated them like objects. But a lot of them were pretty nice guys, humble guys, just wanted to settle down, raise some kids, and treat their wives like Goddesses. Things didn't work out for 'em. Hell, I know plenty of women like that too. They loved their husbands and got played anyway.

 

I don't want to be like them.

 

Every BS here needs to set their goals. For me, I will learn to recognise the signs of an affair; you can be trusting without being stupid. We all have our own patterns of behaviour, and we need to identify them and work on them. I've seen a woman whose been married four times, every husband has cheated on her...because she keeps on dating the same kind of guys. I will learn to be a better SO for the next woman in my life: We all need to swallow our pride and see what mistakes we've made. I will be a twice the parent that I was in the past: No cheesy comments here.

 

I've seen remorseful WSs. They exist. I know a woman that ran off and had an affair for around a month. Her husband divorced her and is happily remarried. Her? She still pines for her ex 4 years after the divorce. Still calls him and still thinks about him. Lives mostly alone in their old house. Has had a couple of flings but nothing serious. Hates his new wife. Tries to get him to reconcile whenever the kids come over. Can't look him in the face. She's still in therapy and on anti-depression meds. Feels like she can never fall in love again. She f__ked up big time. I know all of this because that woman is my step-sister.

 

My wife hasn't shown remorse. How many of our WSs have shown genuine remorse? Not many. My step-sister would do nearly anything to regain her ex's respect. Would our WSs have been that dedicated? Doubt it.

 

I'd offer one last chance for an amicable relationship with my wife if she put some effort into it. She isn't worth the energy.

 

So...let's not get hung up on all of this misery.

 

Man, I am just burning with BS passion tonight.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[2.50 a gallon]

Saul

 

Your sister sounds like my Ex.

 

A month after I caught her, when she realized that I too had moved on and shared my bed with another woman, my Ex totally broke down and wanted to reconcile. It was too late

 

She didn't give up, and made numerous ovetures for us to begain again for the next 3 to 4 years

 

As for me, I quickly got back into the dating scene, but this time I was determined to never fall in love again.

 

After 15 years I thought I was safe. Then came the first kiss on the second date with a gal who is totally out of my league, and cupid nailed me.

 

Somehow I am blindly doing everything right, and in a month we will have been together for 16 years.

 

You will heal and you will trade up

[andyg99]

Yours is a great story to give hope to those who think their life is all downwards from now on! Like I tell everyone here 2.50, there's an amazing life waiting for you!

 

Saul

 

Your sister sounds like my Ex.

 

A month after I caught her, when she realized that I too had moved on and shared my bed with another woman, my Ex totally broke down and wanted to reconcile. It was too late

 

She didn't give up, and made numerous ovetures for us to begain again for the next 3 to 4 years

 

As for me, I quickly got back into the dating scene, but this time I was determined to never fall in love again.

 

After 15 years I thought I was safe. Then came the first kiss on the second date with a gal who is totally out of my league, and cupid nailed me.

 

Somehow I am blindly doing everything right, and in a month we will have been together for 16 years.

 

You will heal and you will trade up

[visualbasicide]

You will heal and you will trade up

 

Sweet. That is the kind of story I want to hear, lol. My ex was almost everything I could want in a relationship and she was very beautiful, only too selfish in the end.

 

Megan Fox is really just biding her time until I show up.

 

Ok, so I might not trade up quite that far, but still, it's a very hopeful thing to hear, 2.50 a gallon for the win.

[Saul Goodman]

As for me, I quickly got back into the dating scene, but this time I was determined to never fall in love again.

 

After 15 years I thought I was safe. Then came the first kiss on the second date with a gal who is totally out of my league, and cupid nailed me.

 

Somehow I am blindly doing everything right, and in a month we will have been together for 16 years.

 

You will heal and you will trade up

 

Life goes on, eh? Make the most of it.

[LifesontheUp]

Yes life goes one and we need to make the most of what we have or dwell in it and never get to feel better IMHO.

 

Saul, you seem to have a good head and attitude with everything that has happened. One step at a time and you'll be fine.

[Saul Goodman]

This is going to be a long one...

 

So, I've got the house all to myself this weekend (my sons are doing their own thing...it's for the best right now, though maybe it doesn't sound like it). I'm in a somber mood today, for a couple of reasons (take a guess).

 

I'm using this time to think. That's pretty much all I did on Saturday. Maybe you got this from some of my more recent posts.

 

It's important to look inwards. I know that this seems like common sense, but a lot of people don't do this until things go rotton. They live busy lives but they never just take the time out to think and ask. To really deconstruct themselves. That's the problem...we all live in denial to a certain degree. But it's to our detriment to live like this. I can think of a couple of BSs in my life that admitted to neglecting their WS more than they should have, only when things when south (and no, the WS shouldn't have had an affair, but they did anyway). And there are plenty of WSs that will never comprehend the severity of their actions, because they choose not to. They are genuinely delusional.

 

We have to ask ourselves where we failed as romantic partners. Where we failed as human beings (that sounds kinda ridiculous but you get my point), so that we minimise the chances of failing again. Learn from our mistakes.

 

I remember some posters here talking about how they married jerk bags (pathological liars and serial cheaters ect.). We tend to place a lot of the focus on how nasty they were and how poorely they treated us. But we have to ask ourselves: How come we were so dumb? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm asking this so that we won't act like such idiots in the future. Why did we tolerate this sh_t? Why didn't we do something about their jerk bag behaviour? We can't stop them from being jerk bags, but we can control the level of abuse that we tolerate. I think that there is a certain amount of denial to it...a certain level of delusionary behaviour to it (again, don't take this the wrong way, all of this pertains to me as well). We can't live in denial anymore.

 

Secondly, I question where I failed as a husband. It's not to beat myself up. It's not to justify my wife's actions. It's not me showing weakness. It's simply me seeing where I failed as a husband. There are a couple of areas where I could've been better. When my wife didn't call me last Friday, I saw that as the final string being cut. I'm thinking about placing an official NC with her. Before I do, I'd like to make my peace. Just give her a final heart to heart and apologise for my mistakes. Maybe this is a stupid idea, and I don't expect the same treatment from her (I would f__king appreciate it though), but I have to say what I have to say and be done with it. I'm going to try and make contact with her one last time today. Hopefully the wife that I knew will answer.

 

In a way, I made my wife the woman she is today, just as she has made me the man I am today. You spend time with people. Form bonds. You grow and live your life with them, and become different from the person that you were yesterday, because of your interactions with them. Everything that I have done with and for her, I have done out of love.

 

I gathered and read through her old birthday and Christmas cards. Stuff from over ten years back. "Thanks for putting up with me honey. I love you". That sort of stuff. I'm going to throw them out. You get hit with a lot of bittersweet memories. There's a sort of contradictory happiness and sadness to it, which is both the best and worst feeling in the world.

 

I'm going to give my wife's violin to my youngest.

 

Thinking back, I cheated on my very first girlfriend. We broke up two years later, and I know that my actions stuck with her. I was sorry for what I'd done, but I wasn't genuinely remorseful. There's a difference; I think that to be remorseful you have to truly understand the magnitude of your actions, but you only think that you understand...you lie to yourself. I remember seeing a play where the husband was cheating on his wife, and the amount of pain that he caused her helped put things in perspective (as juvenile as that may sound). It was only years later after some personal growth that I called her up and spoke to her again. I had to swallow a lot of pride. My apology was genuine that time.

 

Sorry for the incredibly melodramatic spiel, but I had to get all of that off my chest.

 

Ya know, my insomnia is gone.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[visualbasicide]

This is going to be a long one...

 

So, I've got the house all to myself this weekend (my sons are doing their own thing...it's for the best right now, though maybe it doesn't sound like it). I'm in a somber mood today, for a couple of reasons (take a guess).

 

I'm using this time to think. That's pretty much all I did on Saturday. Maybe you got this from some of my more recent posts.

 

It's important to look inwards. I know that this seems like common sense, but a lot of people don't do this until things go rotton. They live busy lives but they never just take the time out to think and ask. To really deconstruct themselves. That's the problem...we all live in denial to a certain degree. But it's to our detriment to live like this. I can think of a couple of BSs in my life that admitted to neglecting their WS more than they should have, only when things when south (and no, the WS shouldn't have had an affair, but they did anyway). And there are plenty of WSs that will never comprehend the severity of their actions, because they choose not to. They are genuinely delusional.

 

We have to ask ourselves where we failed as romantic partners. Where we failed as human beings (that sounds kinda ridiculous but you get my point), so that we minimise the chances of failing again. Learn from our mistakes.

 

I remember some posters here talking about how they married jerk bags (pathological liars and serial cheaters ect.). We tend to place a lot of the focus on how nasty they were and how poorely they treated us. But we have to ask ourselves: How come we were so dumb? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm asking this so that we won't act like such idiots in the future. Why did we tolerate this sh_t? Why didn't we do something about their jerk bag behaviour? We can't stop them from being jerk bags, but we can control the level of abuse that we tolerate. I think that there is a certain amount of denial to it...a certain level of delusionary behaviour to it (again, don't take this the wrong way, all of this pertains to me as well). We can't live in denial anymore.

 

Secondly, I question where I failed as a husband. It's not to beat myself up. It's not to justify my wife's actions. It's not me showing weakness. It's simply me seeing where I failed as a husband. There are a couple of areas where I could've been better. When my wife didn't call me last Friday, I saw that as the final string being cut. I'm thinking about placing an official NC with her. Before I do, I'd like to make my peace. Just give her a final heart to heart and apologise for my mistakes. Maybe this is a stupid idea, and I don't expect the same treatment from her (I would f__king appreciate it though), but I have to say what I have to say and be done with it. I'm going to try and make contact with her one last time today. Hopefully the wife that I knew will answer.

 

In a way, I made my wife the woman she is today, just as she has made me the man I am today. You spend time with people. Form bonds. You grow and live your life with them, and become different from the person that you were yesterday, because of your interactions with them. Everything that I have done with and for her, I have done out of love.

 

I gathered and read through her old birthday and Christmas cards. Stuff from over ten years back. "Thanks for putting up with me honey. I love you". That sort of stuff. I'm going to throw them out. You get hit with a lot of bittersweet memories. There's a sort of contradictory happiness and sadness to it, which is both the best and worst feeling in the world.

 

I'm going to give my wife's violin to my youngest.

 

Thinking back, I cheated on my very first girlfriend. We broke up two years later, and I know that my actions stuck with her. I was sorry for what I'd done, but I wasn't genuinely remorseful. There's a difference; I think that to be remorseful you have to truly understand the magnitude of your actions, but you only think that you understand...you lie to yourself. I remember seeing a play where the husband was cheating on his wife, and the amount of pain that he caused her helped put things in perspective (as juvenile as that may sound). It was only years later after some personal growth that I called her up and spoke to her again. I had to swallow a lot of pride. My apology was genuine that time.

 

Sorry for the incredibly melodramatic spiel, but I had to get all of that off my chest.

 

Ya know, my insomnia is gone.

 

That is exactly the type of reasoning that has helped me move on the most. Intellectually tear the relationship down, and everything you think know about yourself and your partner, and look at each part of it from both angles and realize exactly what happened and why.

 

Seriously, if you honestly own up to your own part in it and take the time to admit your own hand in things and use the time moving forward to correct your own mistakes or flaws you can make sure that in the future, the things that plagued your last relationship will not harm a future one by your own hand.

 

This doesn't mean you take the blame, it does take two to tango as they say and doesn't excuse the actions of another no matter what they felt. The more honest you are about it, the more you will understand it and the more you will learn from it so you won't have to make the same mistakes in your future.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

[speedster]

Saul,

 

just be careful that you do not provide her with anything she can use against you later.

 

otherwise, i can say i can relate to how you feel.

 

take care.

[andyg99]

Before I do, I'd like to make my peace. Just give her a final heart to heart and apologise for my mistakes. Maybe this is a stupid idea, and I don't expect the same treatment from her (I would f__king appreciate it though), but I have to say what I have to say and be done with it. I'm going to try and make contact with her one last time today. Hopefully the wife that I knew will answer.

 

.

 

Saul - you are on the right track here. You definitely at some point need to look at your role in the marriage and see what it is that you could have done differently. But maybe it's too soon to do that, you are still very early on in this and I fear going through this exercise you may be putting too much blame on yourself. Heal more first, get settled with your boys and see that they are doing the best they can, then you can go through this process.

 

You know your situation the best but I'd hold off on making that call, that's a conversation that you may not need right now.

 

In the end we need to look at ourselves and learn from a failed marriage, many do not (in a cheating situation) because they feel since their partner cheated they aren't examining the marriage then why should I? Sometimes after close examination the conclusions are simple. In my case I realized I needed to open my eyes, and trust that when someone shows you who they are you better believe them. I was very naive and I needed to grow up a bit, I also realized that had I chosen wiser I might have ended up with someone who would not have seen certain parts of my personality as being faults. I learned patience and I learned that the most important job I'll ever have is that of being a parent.

 

Take a little more time to heal, then look in the mirror.