I feel like crap

[somedude81]

Oh I didn't know about that. In that case can the kiss idea, but save it for a fresh girl. It only works if you think you've got a shot with them. It can work, but you can't be too aggressive.

Yeah I can try that with a new girl.

 

Honestly, going for a kiss is something really scary for me. It's been about seven years since I last kissed a girl and I've only kissed one.

I think at this point the girl already knows he has a crush on her, so openly talking about it would do him no harm. I would advise against it if it were one month into their friendship, but it's been 2 years. The way I see it, she can either agree to go out with him, or he can get a definite negative answer and hopefully walk away. Win-win.

Yup.

If she hasn't decided she's into you in two years, she's not into you.

You may be right.

 

What did you think about my previous post where I answered your question about what she wants?

 

There's also the fact that she's 22 and has never been in a relationship and there are several things about dating/intimacy that make her uncomfortable.

[turnera]

What she told you is a reflection of her issues. And they appear to be huge. My guess is she was sexually abused as a child and is maintaining a HUGE control over herself because she needs to deal with it, and won't. (do NOT ask her that!) She reminds me of the counselor lady on Glee. It's a good bet she will never be ready - for anyone.

 

If I were you, I would just make a gentle move tomorrow - to hold her hand. If she lets you, it's a signal she's willing to see you as more. Settle for that, if she allows it.

 

If she doesn't allow it, you have your answer.

 

As for you, I recommend you look up some people who have some slutty female friends (like my DD21's best friend) who simply enjoy hooking up with casual guys, and spend some time with them. Get more natural and comfortable dealing with girls by dealing with such girls who just wanna have fun. That will boost your confidence so that you can then approach girls you want to be more serious with.

[Teknoe]

If I were you, I would just make a gentle move tomorrow - to hold her hand. If she lets you, it's a signal she's willing to see you as more. Settle for that, if she allows it.

 

If she doesn't allow it, you have your answer.

 

 

Not a bad idea. He needs to either:

 

-Ask her out on a DATE (using that word specifically so she knows it's not just a friendly hang out)

 

OR

 

-Try to hold her hand

 

OR

 

-Ask her how she feels about him beyond friendship

 

Personally, in THIS case, I think choice #3 is already doomed. So he should try choice 1 or 2.

 

Bottom line: DO ONE OF THOSE. The worst thing possible SD is you come back in this topic Thursday and you say "Well we hung out Wednesday, but I just couldn't find the right moment to ask her out or hold her hand. Maybe next time."

 

Find out the truth one way or another tomorrow, and go from there.

 

Good luck.

[somedude81]

What she told you is a reflection of her issues. And they appear to be huge. My guess is she was sexually abused as a child and is maintaining a HUGE control over herself because she needs to deal with it, and won't. (do NOT ask her that!) She reminds me of the counselor lady on Glee. It's a good bet she will never be ready - for anyone.

We've already briefly talked about that. She said that she had not been abused and has no experiences like that.

 

I don't feel that she was lying, her demeanor was very calm and normal for her.

 

Maybe she was lying? I don't know.

 

If I were you, I would just make a gentle move tomorrow - to hold her hand. If she lets you, it's a signal she's willing to see you as more. Settle for that, if she allows it.

 

If she doesn't allow it, you have your answer.

OK, I'm going to try to think of a way to do it.

 

What is more intimate, hand holding or a hug?

 

It just seems to me like something that only couples do. Something you'd do after you kissed them.

 

As for you, I recommend you look up some people who have some slutty female friends (like my DD21's best friend) who simply enjoy hooking up with casual guys, and spend some time with them. Get more natural and comfortable dealing with girls by dealing with such girls who just wanna have fun. That will boost your confidence so that you can then approach girls you want to be more serious with.

I have no idea how, but I've seemed to miss all the slutty girls.

 

I've never known any. Can I ask my female friends if they have any easy friends?

[turnera]

I think that, in y'all's case, both of you being pretty backward, a hug is TOO personal and TOO much getting in one's personal space. If she's not accustomed to relationships, a hug would most likely be seen as aggression - not on purpose, but kind of like a rush in on her, where her instincts will kick in and she'll back off even if she didn't want to.

 

Taking her hand is a perfect way to gauge the scene. Picture a movie where they're at a table, and the guy gently takes her hand in hers, on top of the table (or walking down the sidewalk); if she pulls her hand out of his grasp, that means no, I'm not into you that way. If she keeps it there, she's been waiting for you to make a move. Plus, it's very subtle, yet you BOTH know EXACTLY what's going on - so it's a whole conversation, yes or no, and finalization, all within a simple movement.

[Beachgirl8]

I like the hand holding idea the best. It's probably the least scary of all the options, and she will know exactly what it means. If you get a positive response when you hold her hand, (she doesn't pull away, she smiles at you) then definitely go ahead and ask her on a date. And yes, say the word "date".

 

I also think that you should definitely be asking your female friends to hook you up with their friends or acquaintances they think might like you. But maybe leave out the words "slutty" or "easy"

 

Where are the slutty girls? I went to a bar once in SoCal a few years ago on vacation called Plan B in San Diego... There were a lot of sluts there my dorky WOW-playing brother ended up hooking up with 2 girls that night, I had to drag his ass out of there. Hehe I'm not suggesting you go to a bar and make out with random drunk girls, it doesn't seem like your style, but that's where they are.

[turnera]

DD21's friend actually meets more of these guys at church than anywhere else. Honestly, all she has to do is behave suggestively and they start lining up to 'go out' with her. Also meets them at work and at school. Maybe you could find more ways to hang out with larger groups of people, to pick one out.

[Teknoe]

I don't like this talk of suggesting SD to find some "easy girls."

 

In fact, I don't like him continuing to pursue this lady friend of his when clearly, she doesn't see him that way. Unfortunately though, for him to move on, it looks like he will need her to actually say it verbally.

 

The bottom line is, he is still chasing after girls. That's not a bad desire. But when it's priority #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5, you have an unhealthy obsession/imbalance.

 

And I'm afraid, you'll never find the kind of happiness you really desire deep down.

 

I feel like this advice is just leading him further down the road he should be trying to get off of.

 

Of course, he'll laugh my suggestion off. But that is the core issue here -- being too girl-obsessive just isn't healthy.

 

This is why he needs to go see a therapist.

[turnera]

I don't like this talk of suggesting SD to find some "easy girls."

 

In fact, I don't like him continuing to pursue this lady friend of his when clearly, she doesn't see him that way. Unfortunately though, for him to move on, it looks like he will need her to actually say it verbally.

 

The bottom line is, he is still chasing after girls. That's not a bad desire. But when it's priority #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5, you have an unhealthy obsession/imbalance.

 

And I'm afraid, you'll never find the kind of happiness you really desire deep down.

 

I feel like this advice is just leading him further down the road he should be trying to get off of.

 

Of course, he'll laugh my suggestion off. But that is the core issue here -- being too girl-obsessive just isn't healthy.

 

This is why he needs to go see a therapist.

IDK. I think that if he had a little more experience, he'd stop obsessing about how bad he is. He'd become more comfortable in his own skin and stop feeling like no girl will ever want him. Then he'd be able to approach girls with more confidence. And then the whole issue will go away because he'll start meeting girls who he doesn't turn off.

[fortyninethousand322]

IDK. I think that if he had a little more experience, he'd stop obsessing about how bad he is. He'd become more comfortable in his own skin and stop feeling like no girl will ever want him. Then he'd be able to approach girls with more confidence. And then the whole issue will go away because he'll start meeting girls who he doesn't turn off.

 

This is what I've been saying for months in regards to SD81's problems. Finally someone else suggests it.

[somedude81]

There is no point in talking to Teknoe about women.

 

He thinks I should just be fulfilled by Jesus and have no desire for women.

 

I wish he would just stop posing in my thread. Which I have repeatedly asked him to.

 

And yes, there is nothing more that I need than to actually get some experience with girls. Right now it feels that I don't even live in the same world that women do.

Edited October 5, 2011 by somedude81

[turnera]

Well, you can DO something about THAT. It's called reading. There are probably 200-300 books out there about how women work and what to do with them. Educate yourself.

[turnera]

And watch the show Tough Love on VH1. It's an awesome way to get inside the minds of women. I've learned a TON from it.

[somedude81]

Well, you can DO something about THAT. It's called reading. There are probably 200-300 books out there about how women work and what to do with them. Educate yourself.

And that's the problem. There is too much information out there and I don't know where to start.

 

I have read a few books and it has helped me a little bit. And I've read things that haven't helped.

 

I think it comes down to me needing to change my entire approach with women. Just change everything. But to what, I don't know yet.

[turnera]

Just do a search for books and add the word reviews, and you'll get reviews on what books are best. The more knowledge you have, the better you can react and the more confidence you will have.

 

Now, what about that volunteering?

[somedude81]

And she canceled for today. She's got two papers due next week and apparently can't spare an hour or less to have lunch with me

 

She basically pulled the same thing last week.

 

Now I'm really thinking about confronting her. Sending her a message like.

 

"Be honest with me. If you don't want to hang out anymore just tell me. I'm getting tired of you using every excuse to cancel."

 

If that's enough to provoke her to tell me the truth, then I'll delete her number.

 

I just wonder if that would be shooting myself in the foot since it's completely negative.

 

Either way, there goes my reason for getting up today. And now I have nothing at all until next week to look forward to, when I'll possibly hang out with her.

 

Did I mention that I feel like crap?

Edited October 5, 2011 by somedude81

[Beachgirl8]

Ugh. Sorry to hear that. Don't send that message. Take this week and refocus and find some new things to do.

[somedude81]

I just really need some closure. This whole thing with her is driving me insane.

 

That was basically my whole point of wanting to see her today and she wouldn't even let that happen.

 

If she liked me at all, she would be willing to give me an hour right?

[Queen Zenobia]

I just really need some closure. This whole thing with her is driving me insane.

 

That was basically my whole point of wanting to see her today and she wouldn't even let that happen.

 

If she liked me at all, she would be willing to give me an hour right?

 

As most of us have been saying for a while: YES!

 

This young lady is either not interested, or she has issues. You don't want any part of either of those things. I've seen your picture you're a good looking guy, go out there with some confidence and go meet some nice girls who don't have issues.

[Beachgirl8]

I just really need some closure. This whole thing with her is driving me insane.

 

That was basically my whole point of wanting to see her today and she wouldn't even let that happen.

 

If she liked me at all, she would be willing to give me an hour right?

 

If she was romantically interested in you, she would have found a way to work you into her busy schedule. So the fact that she's not prioritizing your company *is* your closure. You don't need to hear the words from her. You can sense it. You need to create the "closure" in your own brain in order to move along. She's not being mean or hateful, so there's no need to put her on the spot, make her uncomfortable, and burn the bridge.

 

You said before you have a hard time seeing things from her perspective. Let's guess based on her actions that she feels like she DOES like you as a friend, but she doesn't want to get your hopes up by spending too much time with you because she knows you want more, and she wants to avoid hurting your feelings. She seems like a really nice girl. Maybe in the future you can be just friends with her, once you deal with your feelings and move on. But for now it's probably best to put some distance between you two.

I am sorry you aren't getting the result you wanted, AGAIN. I know you've kept that small percentage of hope alive that things would develop with her for a long time now. But ultimately you have to do what's best for YOU- and pining after a girl who is not showing interest is only hurting you.

 

This is a good week, no, today is a good day to get on that volunteering thing. It will distract you and give you something positive to do. I know you probably don't feel like it. But do it anyway. At least look up some options for things you can join and make a list of #'s to call.

[Dorie]

You've wrapped your worth up in her validation and in having this relationship move from the platonic to romantic. So, of course these sorts of set backs hurt.

 

She is a young silly college girl whose focus is elsewhere. She will not be putting emphasis on you, I'm sorry to say. By contrast, you've made her the world. Time to stop that thinking. Have the talk.

[somedude81]

So what do I do? Risk burning the bridge or not?

 

Is there a way I can format what I want to say in a communication style that that works better?

 

I really have no intention of keeping her as a friend because I will always have feelings for her as long as I'm not with somebody else.

 

I'm sure it's best to do it in person, but she makes it so hard to see her. It's been two weeks since we last talked face to face.

[betterdeal]

He's terrified of kissing her and, I think, intimacy in general (see his earlier posts where he explains he doesn't want to open up emotionally for fear of being hurt again as he has in the past). That in mind, he will not stop projecting his decision to not open up onto her. Why would he? It's easier to blame someone else for self-defeating decisions and so long as she isn't interested in him, he'll be interested in her. She is the perfect emotional-punchbag.

 

This thread is a part of a strategy designed to avoid intimacy. The downside of this strategy is that he ends up having to use very negative linguistics and, as she's a metaphor for him, every negative thing he says about her is an attack on himself. This hurts the soul and leads to depression.

[turnera]

Whenever you confront a person, you have to do it in terms of how YOU feel, not how THEY are making you feel. "I feel," not "You make me feel."

 

I really like you. I have for a long time. I've been hoping that you'd feel the same way, but it's finally (!) becoming obvious that you don't. So I just need to know flat out - do you want me to leave you alone, or do you want to date me?

[Beachgirl8]

Whenever you confront a person, you have to do it in terms of how YOU feel, not how THEY are making you feel. "I feel," not "You make me feel."

 

I really like you. I have for a long time. I've been hoping that you'd feel the same way, but it's finally (!) becoming obvious that you don't. So I just need to know flat out - do you want me to leave you alone, or do you want to date me?

 

If you do decide you have to send something- this is perfect.