I feel like crap

[somedude81]

I don't think he knows how old I am, not like it matters either way. A 30 year old man is no more "dangerous" than a 21 year old.

 

As for him being fine with me being alone with her, I'm sure he was able to discern that I wasn't a threat to her.

 

BTW, she's lives away from home 4 days a week. I'm sure he realizes that anything we could have done at his house, we could have already done somewhere else.

[Teknoe]

Yeah I know that her seeing me on Monday is just a pity invite.

 

 

I'm curious to hear how today goes for ya. Also wondering if she'll find another reason not to meet up.

 

I heard something on the radio today that made me think of you SD:

 

Life is what you make of it, and the choices you make. Yes, perhaps you were dealt a bad hand, but life is about what you do with that hand. YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN DESTINY

[somedude81]

Spending time with her is always fun, but she had school stuff to do and could only give me a couple hours. Not bad but it's not enough.

 

I'm learning more and more about her each time we're together.

 

Surprise, she actually is into guys. I know she likes animals which I'll tie into. We were in the college bookstore and we walked over to a calender rack. I picked up a calender that was basically hot guys and dogs. Then I asked what was hotter, the guys or the dogs. She laughed and said of course the guys. We talked a little bit about this. The main reason I asked, because I didn't know if she was into guys at all. I didn't tell her that, but now I know.

 

But there is something else I pretty much confirmed. She isn't into me at all. Even though we had a good time together, she almost seemed in a hurry to get back into her dorm building. The good bye was really quick. I'm guessing she didn't want to even give me the chance of going for a hug.

 

Right then I knew it was never going to work out and that honestly made me very scared because I'm afraid for my future.

 

I know that completely dropping her from my life wouldn't benefit me in any way and I might as well ututilze her friendship and get some relationship help/advice.

 

So I took a risk. I sent her text message telling her that there was something I wanted to ask her but it was a little to awkward to do so in person and I told her that she is really the only person I can ask and that she's my closest female friend, which she is.

 

I sent her a message, "I've been wondering about this and I seriously don't know. Am I good looking at all? And no I'm not asking if you're attracted to me. That's entirely different."

 

She replied, "Well you're definitely not bad looking dude. I mean how people view you is subjective anyways. It's kinda hard to explain sorry. Did someone say something to you btw? Or were you just wondering?"

 

Since she basically dodged the question, it means that she doesn't think I'm good looking. I already know that I'm not ugly so it doesn't really help that she thinks I'm not bad looking. No woman would ever date a guy she describes as, "not bad looking."

 

Then for some reason she said, "How many girls have you hung out with before? Maybe you didn't know them long enough? Girls Usually don't call a guy cute straight up unless they've known them for a while."

 

When I asked for clarification she said, "Because if you only knew them for a short time, they probably wouldn't have said if they found you attractive or not."

 

I don't really get why she brought that up. I've known her for almost two years if it's relevant.

 

Feeling that I got past that communication barrier I asked if we could talk in person about this stuff and my dating issues. She said sure, and I'm waiting on her to get back to me with when.

 

I've wanted to really open up to her about this stuff for a very long time, but have always been too afraid to do so because I felt that it would make me seem weak and lessen any desire to date me. Now that I'm pretty sure that I don't have any chance at all with her ( ) I might as well get her help with this.

 

I seriously need help in this area, and right now she knows me better than anyone.

[ptp]

Spending time with her is always fun, but she had school stuff to do and could only give me a couple hours. Not bad but it's not enough.

 

I'm learning more and more about her each time we're together.

 

Surprise, she actually is into guys. I know she likes animals which I'll tie into. We were in the college bookstore and we walked over to a calender rack. I picked up a calender that was basically hot guys and dogs. Then I asked what was hotter, the guys or the dogs. She laughed and said of course the guys. We talked a little bit about this. The main reason I asked, because I didn't know if she was into guys at all. I didn't tell her that, but now I know.

 

But there is something else I pretty much confirmed. She isn't into me at all. Even though we had a good time together, she almost seemed in a hurry to get back into her dorm building. The good bye was really quick. I'm guessing she didn't want to even give me the chance of going for a hug.

 

Been trying to tell you that from the early stages of this thread bro. You didn't want to listen, but finally you are starting to see the light.

 

Personally, I would go NC and go for the other girl with the fat friend. You have no shot with this girl so it is best not spend any time/energy on her.

 

However, if you think she can help that by all means try to get her to help. She can maybe introduce you to some of her friends?

 

The only thing is you have to be honest with yourself. Do you still have feelings for this girl? If not go ahead with the plan, but if you still have feelings for her it will not be good for you.

 

You will not see other girls as attractive, you will always compare them to her and thus it might be detrimental to your future chances with new girls.

[cerridwen]

 

I've wanted to really open up to her about this stuff for a very long time, but have always been too afraid to do so because I felt that it would make me seem weak and lessen any desire to date me. Now that I'm pretty sure that I don't have any chance at all with her ( ) I might as well get her help with this.

 

I seriously need help in this area, and right now she knows me better than anyone.

 

While not exactly lemonade, you're at least making lemon juice out of the situation.

Wise to utilize her help though ptp makes a good point.

You have to accept that it's not going to happen with her.

And you may need to continuously remind yourself of that fact.

 

You could always go NC should things get too difficult.

For now, use her help.

[somedude81]

Of course I still have feelings for this girl. I'm probably in love with her. Still, why would this not be good for me?

 

I need to find out why girls don't like me and what is wrong with me. Why is asking the girl who I've been trying to get and who knows me best a bad idea?

 

I'm still going to ask out the girl with the fat friend and there is a 90% chance she'll say no.

 

That's because there is something fundamentally wrong with me that all girls are picking up on. If I don't get it fixed, I will never date.

[Teknoe]

SD, proud of ya. Way to make some progress.

 

No woman would ever date a guy she describes as, "not bad looking."

 

Well here's the thing. You're just going to have to trust me on this one, and I'm sure others would agree with what I'm about to share with you.

 

IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT LOOKS

 

Why do you think you see so many average looking guys, 5/10, 6/10 at best, dating 7.5/10, 8, even 9/10 girls?

 

He is not bad looking, but not hot either. Yet she is dating him, why?

 

Because girls look at a guy's heart as well as his physical image. Yes, they want a guy they're attracted to, but beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I have girlfriends who date average guys and they always tell me "I love his big heart. He cares about not just me, but people in general. He loves playing with kids. He loves helping the less fortunate. He puts other people's needs before him and I find that highly attractive."

 

Girls are drawn to more than just looks.

 

They like guys who are confident, self-assured, and about more than JUST having a girlfriend. At the end of the day, what do you STAND FOR? What do you BELIEVE IN? If it's more than just having a girlfriend, you're in good shape, because odds are, you do your thing, be devoted to it, whatever it might be, and some woman will come along and notice you for it.

 

We've been all telling you this from day 1. There's nothing wrong with desiring a girlfriend. But what OTHER desires do you have? What are you passionate about in life?

 

Figure out some goals unrelated to the opposite sex. Find your self-fulfillment there. Your confidence and appeal will skyrocket.

 

Trust us on this one. If you don't, go ask your lady friend this.

 

Copy and paste my post here, email it to her, and ask her for her thoughts. "Hey, this random dude on the internet said this. I was wondering, from your point of view, do you think he's right or wrong?"

[betterdeal]

Stop watching porn. Okay, if you must, once a week at the very most. And delete all that you have. It will be liberating.

 

And accept the mystery. Trying to bore a hole into someone's psyche when they have effectively said "no" to letting you in there will not teach you anything. Stop being like the fat guy who's all over a girl who's not really into him. That will also be liberating.

 

Stop trying to control everything. You can't.

Edited October 25, 2011 by betterdeal

[somedude81]

Why do you think you see so many average looking guys, 5/10, 6/10 at best, dating 7.5/10, 8, even 9/10 girls?

 

He is not bad looking, but not hot either. Yet she is dating him, why?

 

Because girls look at a guy's heart as well as his physical image.

 

Girls are drawn to more than just looks.

And I want to find out what what she thinks I might be lacking.

 

That way, maybe the next one won't turn me down for the same reason(s).

Stop watching porn. Okay, if you must, once a week at the very most. And delete all that you have. It will be liberating.

Porn talk is for my other thread. But yeah, I'm cutting down.

And accept the mystery. Trying to bore a hole into someone's psyche when they have effectively said "no" to letting you in there will not teach you anything. Stop being like the fat guy who's all over a girl who's not really into him. That will also be liberating.

 

Stop trying to control everything. You can't.

I'm not trying to control, I'm trying to learn.

 

I need to find somebody who can help me. And it's obvious that the people here can only help me so much. Nobody here even knows what I'm really like and it's impossible to give accurate feedback.

 

Also, as I said before, I'm learning more about her each time we hang out. In other words, she is letting me in more as time goes on.

 

Accepting the mystery will get me nowhere.

[betterdeal]

Accepting the mystery will get me nowhere.

 

And not accepting the mystery has done what for you, exactly?

[somedude81]

Uh, I've been "accepting the mystery" for the past 13 years. Remaining ignorant has not helped me.

[somedude81]

Well, dancing girl with the fat friend has a boyfriend.

 

No surprise.

 

Every girl I'm remotely interested in is either taken or doesn't want to date me.

[betterdeal]

Uh, I've been "accepting the mystery" for the past 13 years. Remaining ignorant has not helped me.

 

What happened 13 years ago? You've said you don't want to get hurt again; is that what happened back then?

[somedude81]

I think there is a little miscommunication going on between us.

 

What do you mean by accept the mystery?

 

As for 13 years, I got my years wrong. Basically I started liking girls at 13, I'm 30 now, and I never had a clue why I always got rejected and never really asked any of them why. It's always been, get rejected and move on. Never really learning anything from the experience. At least it seems that way because my results haven't changed.

 

It's basically been 17 years of failure with no hope in sight.

[Els]

There is nothing wrong with asking a girl why, when she rejects you, but I guess it's tough to convince someone that you can take the harsh criticism. CAN you? If she tells you something like, "You have unattractive mannerisms and appearance, you speak awkwardly," etc, could you take it without getting depressed? Could you still be friends?

 

I admit I am pretty cowardly about such things. There was once a guy who pursued me very insistently and whom I turned down several times. Finally he asked me to tell him why. I could have told him, "You're unintelligent, your jokes aren't funny, you have such an archaic view of the world, you really need to freshen up your breath, and you act like an annoying clingy little brother." Instead, I told him, "We just aren't compatible, there will be someone who will appreciate you for who you are, that person is just not me." Which was true in a way. I'm sure some girl would appreciate the good parts about him and not prioritize the parts that turn me off.

 

I don't think finding out 'why' will be easy. There may not even be a why. And every girl's why could be different.

[betterdeal]

Okay, if you want to ask someone a question, ask them. If they don't want to answer, accept their right to silence. That's accepting the mystery.

 

Have you read any of assertiveness training material? Some of the techniques may help you. When I Say No, I Feel Guilty: How to Cope, Using the Skills of Systematic Assertive Therapy by Manuel J. Smith is the seminal assertiveness training work from which pretty much all others originate. It's wonderfully dated, but the techniques, such as negative enquiry and negative assertion, and the very concept that underlies it all, may help you get further in your enquiries.

 

Out of curiosity, when you have rejected women, what's been the main themes, reasons?

[somedude81]

There is nothing wrong with asking a girl why, when she rejects you, but I guess it's tough to convince someone that you can take the harsh criticism. CAN you? If she tells you something like, "You have unattractive mannerisms and appearance, you speak awkwardly," etc, could you take it without getting depressed? Could you still be friends?

Definitely.

 

The most important thing is that I would know what to work on. Right now I don't have a clue what I need to do. So a girl being anything less than honest will not help me.

 

Of course only hearing the things that I can change are helpful. If a girl actually told me that she turned me down because I'm short, I'll call her shallow bitch.

 

I admit I am pretty cowardly about such things. There was once a guy who pursued me very insistently and whom I turned down several times. Finally he asked me to tell him why. I could have told him, "You're unintelligent, your jokes aren't funny, you have such an archaic view of the world, you really need to freshen up your breath, and you act like an annoying clingy little brother." Instead, I told him, "We just aren't compatible, there will be someone who will appreciate you for who you are, that person is just not me." Which was true in a way. I'm sure some girl would appreciate the good parts about him and not prioritize the parts that turn me off.

Yeah, what you said to him wasn't helpful at all. It was just some positive BS. Imagine if every girl said that to him. He'd never improve.

I don't think finding out 'why' will be easy. There may not even be a why. And every girl's why could be different.

What I'm planning on asking her is a general why girls don't like me/ aren't attracted to me. As a woman she is bound to know more about the reasons than I would. Maybe she can have some tips for me as well.

 

My one concern is that because I know her so well, I'm very comfortable with her and haven't really cared about showing her my best side all the time. So she's seen things that no other has, and those reasons wouldn't affect why somebody I didn't know rejected me.

Okay, if you want to ask someone a question, ask them. If they don't want to answer, accept their right to silence. That's accepting the mystery.

Oh. That was a pretty fancy way of saying that. Yeah I'm not going to pressure anybody.

 

Have you read any of assertiveness training material? Some of the techniques may help you. When I Say No, I Feel Guilty: How to Cope, Using the Skills of Systematic Assertive Therapy by Manuel J. Smith is the seminal assertiveness training work from which pretty much all others originate. It's wonderfully dated, but the techniques, such as negative enquiry and negative assertion, and the very concept that underlies it all, may help you get further in your enquiries.

No, I haven't read any assertiveness training. How can that help me?

Out of curiosity, when you have rejected women, what's been the main themes, reasons?

Rejected women?

 

I've only turned down one women in my entire life.

 

Reasons why:

 

I was 19, she was ~25.

She was unattractive and much heavier than I was.

In one of our few conversations, she told me about past mental health issues, drug use and an abortion.

 

There were simply way too many negatives to overlook and she basically freaked me out.

[betterdeal]

No, I haven't read any assertiveness training. How can that help me?

 

Outwardly, it can help you interact more fluidly with other people. The more tools you have to be able to say "no" and stand your ground when someone appears to encroach on your space, the more confident you'll be. Inwardly, it helps you to see things more clearly as what's yours and what's theirs, giving you a better sense of self. Again, this gives you more confidence.

[Teknoe]

SD, go for it. Ask your lady friend. I think it will be a good experience for you. It could also segway into the relationship going from unrequited crush to her becoming sort of your "wing girl" so to speak.

 

Also, I would not be surprised if once you take your foot off the pedal of crushing on her, that you would come to learn how to enjoy her company better, as you won't be pressing and lamenting and overanalyzing so much.

 

Would love to hear the report she gives you. Please keep us updated.

You're going to be alright.

[Els]

Definitely.

 

The most important thing is that I would know what to work on. Right now I don't have a clue what I need to do. So a girl being anything less than honest will not help me.

 

Of course only hearing the things that I can change are helpful. If a girl actually told me that she turned me down because I'm short, I'll call her shallow bitch.

 

 

Yeah, what you said to him wasn't helpful at all. It was just some positive BS. Imagine if every girl said that to him. He'd never improve.

 

Fair enough. Honestly, though, it's easier said than done to say that to someone who is genuinely nice. Perhaps you may understand if you ever need to explain 'why' to a nice girl whom you aren't attracted to, like the one you mentioned.

[Lucky_One]

http://www.fix.net/~dogmag/john/home.html

 

Get a dating coach. This guy is in SoCal, and has given lectures at every college/uni in that part of the state. Drop him an email. He'll call you back and talk for 30 mins or so for free. If you retain him, he's $75 an hour.

[Lucky_One]

http://www.socialstudiocoaching.com/

 

Or if you want a woman, here's another. Same thing. Send her an email, and she will call you back for a free 30 min consult.

[sonicheroin]

man u rock! i feel exactly the same f***ing thing!

[danmorisson]

Dude I'm so ugly I can't even have any youthful females as a mere friend. I'm the only one where I live that doesn't have any female pals. I was the only one in my class at school that was called ugly looking. None of the girls wanted to dance with me -- all refused even after being ordered to by the teacher. Sure you can't be any worse than that? I went to college after leaving school and a bunch of girls went to the back of the bus and pulled ugly faces at me. You think your life is bad? lol

 

Edit: I literally can't go anywhere without experiencing some form of bullying either. Can't get a job.

Edited October 26, 2011 by danmorisson

[AHardDaysNight]

Dude I'm so ugly I can't even have any youthful females as a mere friend. I'm the only one where I live that doesn't have any female pals. I was the only one in my class at school that was called ugly looking. None of the girls wanted to dance with me -- all refused even after being ordered to by the teacher. Sure you can't be any worse than that? I went to college after leaving school and a bunch of girls went to the back of the bus and pulled ugly faces at me. You think your life is bad? lol

 

Edit: I literally can't go anywhere without experiencing some form of bullying either. Can't get a job.

 

Yet you refuse to share your pic, even to someone who somewhat knows what you're going through?

 

Dude, I've said it before, but I'll say it again: You're your own worst enemy.