I feel like crap

[somedude81]

 

Actually, it makes perfect sense to me what Eclypse wrote, as I'm sure, it did for many other posters as well. The ONLY one it doesn't make sense to is YOU.

 

How many times have you quoted someone and replied "BS" ??

 

Too many to count.

 

There is some major denial going on here.

Do you have any idea what part of Eclypse's post I said BS too?

 

This part

 

Can you imagine how a woman you end up dating will feel like if she finds that out? You're only with her so you can enjoy her body for a bit before settling down with a "minivan"?

 

He says I somehow exude that thought in subtle ways.

 

And that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Women haven't fallen for you and it's not because of your looks. You're an average looking guy.

 

It's your negative inner attitude/body language that is seeping out and killing you, man. You can deny it all you want, and because we can't see you in real life we can't "verify" it. That's the convenience of posting on a message board rather than talking to a real life person, right?

 

But your track record with women is all the proof needed.

You can't deny that one -- not even on a message board.

I already know why women haven't fallen for me.

 

First of all, being an average looking guy is not good enough. The vast majority of men are average looking.

 

I don't have negative body language, sorry.

 

Lets just say that you are correct, and I fix my negative body language, it still won't be enough to actually get a girl.

[Teknoe]

First of all, being an average looking guy is not good enough. The vast majority of men are average looking.

 

We can agree on this one. Yes, being an average looking guy is not enough. BUT we can also agree on this one -- there ARE tons of average looking guys in relationships with pretty good looking women. Why is this?

 

What is the difference?

 

Answer: those average looking guys stand for something. Yes, they desire relationship (we all do), but that's not EVERYTHING to them. They are well-rounded, with different healthy interests, and especially the ones who exhibit care for others -- this is what attracts a woman.

 

 

Lets just say that you are correct, and I fix my negative body language, it still won't be enough to actually get a girl.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Can't hurt to try, though.

 

Like I said above, you gotta be about something more than just girls. For instance, besides girls, what exactly is your PASSION in life?

 

Those average looking guys who are in relationships -- they usually stand for something, and believe in themselves. It's what attracted their girlfriends to them in the first place.

 

Maybe you should look into developing that. But not for a girl, because that will ultimately contradict what you're trying to do. Instead, develop a passion for yourself, and not to win a girl's heart. You can't fake it.

 

BTW I just saw Kung Fu Panda 2 and heard this quote.

 

Made me think of you SD:

 

 

Your story may not have such a happy beginning, but that doesn't make you who you are. It is the rest of your story, who you choose to be... So, who are you, Panda? [substitute Panda with your own real name]

 

 

Print that out, slap it on your computer, fridge, bathroom mirror, wherever. Make that your life mantra. Because it's true. Yeah so the first 30 years of your life hasn't gone to your liking -- that's in the past. Are you just going to complain about that forever today? Then your present will always mirror your past.

 

Choose today who you will be.

[somedude81]

Those average looking guys who are in relationships -- they usually stand for something, and believe in themselves. It's what attracted their girlfriends to them in the first place.

Sorry, I think you're way off base.

 

Sure, some women are attracted to passion.

 

But I bet that the vast majority of girls did not get into a relationship with a guy for the reasons you stated.

[AHardDaysNight]

There are many men who become more attractive when they're older, and then they date the "college cuties."

 

However, these are guys that work on themselves. They become financially stable, they become educated, they work out, they have interesting hobbies, they lose weight or gain weight, they get different haircuts or glasses or whatever.

 

Men age more gracefully than women, so you're not out of luck with the younger girls. But they can also sense desperation, which is unmasculine.

[cerridwen]

Err, you feel you have been 'cheated out of life' because you have not had the opportunity to have flings with 'college cuties'?

 

I mean, if that's what you want, all power to you. I personally have never done the 'flings with the jocks' thing (which is the female equivalent of what you want), and I don't regret it. But I have this little feeling that you're not going to TELL the girls you're after about this, are you? It sounds like you're already planning for the next relationship you engage in, whomever it might be with, to be temporary, and not many girls, not even college girls, would be happy with that. There is a huge difference between saying, "I'll just live in the moment and see how this R goes", and "The last thing I want to do is marry my first girlfriend. I want to drive a sports car before I buy a mini-van." Plenty of girls may agree with the former, I don't know very many who would be pleased with the latter, especially if you're a 30+ year old man and they ARE your first girlfriend.

 

I dunno know, Elswyth, it's very common that relationships in college are consensually casual and/or temporary.

It's often a time of experimentation for both sexes.

As long as respect and honesty are parts of the picture, I don't think there is a shortage of women who'd be agreeable to a casual arrangement.

At my college (and those of boyfriends'), there were many women who even initiated it.

[Teknoe]

Sure, some women are attracted to passion.

 

But I bet that the vast majority of girls did not get into a relationship with a guy for the reasons you stated.

 

 

OK, so for average looking guys who are in relationships with pretty good looking girls, why do you think that is so?

 

You just said you don't believe passion, confidence and caring for others attracted these girls to these guys.

 

OK, so you tell me some reasons why.

 

Please don't just answer with "they know how to flirt."

 

Charm is deceptive and fleeting.

 

I'm talking about those average looking guys who are married to good looking women. There's substance to them, not just flash, smoke and mirrors.

 

But I'm wondering what YOU THINK these average guys are doing to attract ladies that you're not doing.

 

I don't think a passion for life and confidence are invalid answers on my part, not at all. The fact that you rejected this notion is a little surprising, yet, at the same time, not wholly surprising, either. If I had a magic serum and could magically inject you with a passion for life beyond women and also inject you with a major dose of confidence, it's a safe bet you'll be better off than how you are right now.

 

(com)Passion and confidence (and the right dosage of humility and servanthood -- the ability and desire to serve others' needs before your own) goes a long way in a woman's eye.

[Els]

No, I feel cheated out of life because I haven't dated any one young at all.

 

How would you feel if you had to be single your entire life, and that the first guy you date and subsequently marry is 35 when you meet him? Essentially missing out on guys in their prime.

 

The fact of the matter is, I've been trying to get girls in their 20's for the past 10 years. If I have to miss out on that, I will feel like I've been cheated.

 

I would not have minded if my bf or any of my exes had been in their 30s instead of mid twenties, to be honest.

 

Honestly now, how many early to mid twenties girls are dating to find a husband? Yeah, I realize that number may be different from where you are from.

 

I dunno know, Elswyth, it's very common that relationships in college are consensually casual and/or temporary.

It's often a time of experimentation for both sexes.

As long as respect and honesty are parts of the picture, I don't think there is a shortage of women who'd be agreeable to a casual arrangement.

At my college (and those of boyfriends'), there were many women who even initiated it.

 

Oh, agreed, and, agreed. But firstly, I don't think SD is planning to honestly warn the girl, is he? If he is, then, well, I take back what I said.

 

Secondly, I think there is a difference between merely 'not aiming for marriage' and purposefully intending to discard the relationship for a 'minivan' after it passes its expiry date. Perhaps, again, that is not how SD intended it, but that is how I read it.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Elswyth

[somedude81]

New rant in case anybody cares.

 

I've got too much anger

[Teknoe]

New rant in case anybody cares.

 

I've got too much anger

 

Dude, you can't change that. You also can't change being 5'5". This is totally unhealthy.

 

And why didn't you answer my previous reply -- I asked you what do you think average looking guys with good looking girlfriends are doing that you aren't doing?

 

You said it's not compassion, passion for something in life , nor is it confidence on their part that attracts girls to them.

 

So then what is it about them that is attracting girls to them? What are they doing that you aren't? I'd like to know.

[cerridwen]

 

 

...Oh, agreed, and, agreed. But firstly, I don't think SD is planning to honestly warn the girl, is he? If he is, then, well, I take back what I said.

 

Secondly, I think there is a difference between merely 'not aiming for marriage' and purposefully intending to discard the relationship for a 'minivan' after it passes its expiry date. Perhaps, again, that is not how SD intended it, but that is how I read it.

 

I see how it could have been interpreted that way.

My take is that SD is an honorable guy.

More than once he's express disgust with men who've taken women to bed under false pretenses.

He has consistently stated that he's after love, not just sex.

Even when we've goaded him into going after the latter, he's resisted.

So, when he says, on rare occasion (from a place of frustration) the opposite, for me, it's easy to dismiss.

 

Also, I just don't see duplicitousness as part of his make-up.

So it's not where my mind goes.

 

Anyway, best to you E, hope today's wonderful for you.

Edited November 3, 2011 by cerridwen

[somedude81]

One point I need to make, is that I'm not even sure what a relationship is.

 

All I know is that I develop feelings for girls and that I want to spend time with them on a regular basis. I only want to have sex with girls that I have feelings for.

 

The aspect of time and having a relationship last is completely foreign to me.

 

Of course I'd want to stay with somebody for as long as we are both enjoying each other. But I'm also not stupid enough to believe in forever. I know that even if I do get married to somebody, it doesn't mean that it will last for any set period. Things happen and people change.

[Teknoe]

One point I need to make, is that I'm not even sure what a relationship is.

 

 

Another reason why it's so important that you should focus on developing platonic friendships with guys and girls while you are waiting it out for a girlfriend.

 

Because friendships are relationships, still. And they teach you things you wouldn't learn by being a lone wolf.

 

You might want to start there.

 

Just like no one's ever graduated from college without finishing classes, no one I know has ever went from no friends to having a girlfriend. It just doesn't work like that. Having no friends is a safe bet that there's something wrong with your social skills, commitment level and intimacy level. When people try to get close to you, you seem to recoil.

 

You also haven't answered the question what do you think average looking guys with good looking girlfriends do that you aren't doing?

 

I think that's because you know the answer deep down but don't want to verbally admit it. I said what those guys are doing to attract girls is that they're passionate about life, care for others and believe in themselves. They don't go around condemning themselves -- which seems to be one of your hobbies.

 

I'm also willing to bet they have healthy friendships, too.

 

It's really hard for a self-hating, self-condemning lone wolf to magically get a girlfriend. This is why we've been telling you making friends is so important. You're missing out on life.

[Beachgirl8]

Hey there SD

Sorry to hear you are still struggling with finding a girlfriend. What have you done differently in the past month to attempt to change your situation?

I'm not being obnoxious, I just think we have all talked this to death and I'm curious to know what actions you are taking and what is working/ not working out of the myriad of suggestions that have been proposed to you, or things you've thought of on your own.

[Teknoe]

What have you done differently in the past month to attempt to change your situation?

 

I'm not being obnoxious, I just think we have all talked this to death and I'm curious to know what actions you are taking and what is working/ not working out of the myriad of suggestions that have been proposed to you, or things you've thought of on your own.

 

As am I, as well as many others here.

 

SD said being average looking isn't enough. I said true, but it's also true there are many average looking guys with above average to good looking girllfriends. What are they doing that he isn't?

 

He claims that their being confident, passionate about life and caring for others is not the reason why these good looking girls are attracted to them.

 

So I asked him OK, since you went there, what do YOU think it is, then?

 

He hasn't answered yet... because I think he knows what I said was right, but for whatever reasons he tried to deny it. Now that he's being asked to provide reasons, he's gone pretty quiet.

 

Not picking on ya SD, just calling it like it is. Until you give me what YOU think are the reasons these guys, who look like you or in some cases are uglier than you, why are they experiencing success and you aren't?

 

If it's not passion for life, caring for others and believing in themselves, then what is it? Surely it ain't looks.

 

So, you tell us. Let's work toward some solutions here, instead of just looking at the problem as you have done for the last 58 pages.

[somedude81]

Hey Beachy,

 

What have I done differently?

 

I've tried to come to some resolution (good or bad) with the main girl I always talk about. But for some reason we haven't had the chance to really talk. We might do that on Saturday. Though it's dependent on her schedule.

 

I was somewhat flirting with the idea of a LDR with a cool woman but ultimately decided against it as things wouldn't be that fulfilling for either of us.

 

I was going to ask out a girl I met in my dance class but she ended up having a boyfriend.

 

Notice a common element in the above stories? Too many buts and no anal

 

Right now I'm pretty much lost on what to do next.

[Teknoe]

I've tried to come to some resolution (good or bad) with the main girl I always talk about. But for some reason we haven't had the chance to really talk. We might do that on Saturday. Though it's dependent on her schedule.

 

Right now I'm pretty much lost on what to do next.

 

 

"for some reason" -- that reason is your own fear.

 

And what you should do next is the complete opposite of whatever you've tried in the past, as it hasn't worked.

 

So activities and ideas you're saying no to, you should be saying yes to.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Teknoe

[Beachgirl8]

LOL at "too many buts..."

Attempted resolution with girl #1- good! I just hope you don't get setback once you get your 'closure'.

Simultaneous attempt on dance girl- awesome. Too bad she has a bf. But I like it that you were going to ask her on a date prior to putting in a ton of effort in getting to know her.

Working on making new friends?

Wing girl?

Expanding search to potentials that don't meet your *ideal* age/looks paradigm?

Working on positive attitude?

 

I'm sure theres more but those are the ones I think will have the most immediate effect on getting your gf cherry popped.

 

Incidentally, Ive been dating (and so far really happy with!) a guy who doesn't fit into my "checklist". Who knows if it will work out, but for now I am having a great time! I don't think I'd fit into his "checklist" either... But! We like each other and are having fun sooo... hopefully you can take something from that? I'm surprised by how much I am liking him since he isn't my normal "type". I do not feel like I am missing out on other opportunities. I like him! And you only live once.

So let's go SD! I challenge you to go talk to some random new girls this weekend. Crash and burn. Go out in flames. You have it in you. And you never know- the next one you ask might be into it and next week you could be on here asking "omg, where should I take her for our second date?" OR "umm, this girl is nuts, what should I do?"

 

But at least let's get some new questions going and do some experiments. So far, you're doing well! Progress is progress- you're going at your own speed so far. But I want you to start taking some new chances and see what happens.

 

Blah, I ramble and annoy, I know- but keep in mind I'm rooting for you and believe your situation will eventually change for the better.

[danmorisson]

It's pointless posting these sort of threads because you never get honest replies -- just fake characters like in a movie. They'll probably try and tell you that the media faked those riots in London. This is why I normally don't associate with people over the Internet. You just don't get real people online.

[betterdeal]

One point I need to make, is that I'm not even sure what a relationship is.

 

Now that's very insightful. I used to think like that too. The word "relationship" has been misused and overused so much it appears to have developed a nebulous meaning of its own. So take it back to basics and work from there, i.e. have a look in the dictionary. Google says the definition is:

 

The way in which two or more concepts, objects, or people are connected, or the state of being connected.

 

With that meaning, you and I have a relationship. You and cerridwen have a relationship, and so on. But if you have relationships already, and are unhappy, and you believe relationships are core to your unhappiness, how can you change that state of affairs?

 

You know it's not lack of a relationship - you have relationships - so it must be how you experience relationships. I'd guess it's to do with how difficult you find it to change your relationships to suit you better.

 

Rather than a series of goals to reach, it often helps to see it as a continuous process. Sure, there can be milestones - significant events - but most of the time, relationships are a state of being, just something that you do, are part of, and experience.

 

What I see in you is problems with specific events and that is all interlinked with trust. Relationships develop, become more meaningful with trust. Trust is related to your attitude to risk. Finding a balance point between safety and risk leads to being able to trust more.

 

Internalising your safety - feeling secure in yourself - means you can take more risks externally - trusting others - and that brings us back to evolving relationships more successfully.

 

A lot of being able to feel secure in yourself comes down to how you use language. Is someone pissing you around or are they not ready for your loving? Both are subjective truths and, as such, you can choose to believe either and be equally "right". But your choice of which to believe will affect your happiness: the former will add suspicion and self-doubt; the latter will not, and may even add confidence.

 

Taking a conscious decision to make your thoughts and language more confident, forgiving, kind, light hearted, generous is a selfish decision. It takes time to adjust to framing these subjective truths differently from what you're used to, but you get used to it, and you become the things you believe. Problems become challenges, threats become opportunities, failure becomes feedback, embarrassment becomes self-deprecating humour. You become happier as a result, because your first and most fundamental relationship becomes happier and supportive i.e. your relationship with yourself. Be your own best friend.

[danmorisson]

You are going way overboard... I just don't think a relationship is that sophisticated, or hardly anyone would be dating. Most people are dumb.

[AHardDaysNight]

You are going way overboard... I just don't think a relationship is that sophisticated, or hardly anyone would be dating. Most people are dumb.

 

Very true that most relationships aren't that sophisticated, but I doubt anyone is dumb.

[somedude81]

Beachy, I'll fully address your post when I get back from work.

 

Betterdeal, I was talking about romantic relationships. I'm sorry that wasn't clear to you.

 

If I could edit my post I would say

 

"One point I need to make, is that I'm not even sure what a romantic relationship is."

[betterdeal]

What I said applies to all relationships, romantic or otherwise. It's not complicated. Not at all.

Edited November 4, 2011 by betterdeal

[betterdeal]

Very true that most relationships aren't that sophisticated, but I doubt anyone is dumb.

 

Yes, yes they are. Just that happenchance most people end up in situations where they get a head start and so don't need to consciously consider it. Once you reprogramme your thinking, it happens. Think learning to ride a bike: takes some time, but it becomes embedded once you've got it.

[Teknoe]

"One point I need to make, is that I'm not even sure what a romantic relationship is."

 

you are so focused on romantic relationships, when some of that focus needs to be redirected to other avenues.

 

Like I said, has anyone ever graduated from college without taking and passing classes?

 

Likewise, has anyone ever gone from having zero friends to suddenly having a girlfriend?

 

Life just doesn't work like this: lone wolf with no friendships ---> lone wolf getting a girlfriend