I feel like crap

[Cracker Jack]

You'll probably end up feeling worse if you decide to have that talk with her.

 

I dunno, man. I think you know what needs to be done here, now that you've realized her feelings for you are not growing. I also think the last thing you need to worry about is losing progress, since you haven't even gotten anywhere close to where you'd hoped to get with this girl. I know she's gotten more comfortable around you and enjoys hanging out with you, but it's...going nowhere.

 

But if it really needs to be done, ask her how she feels about you, get the answer, and go from there.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Cracker Jack

[Teknoe]

Do I really need her to tell me that she doesn't like me?

 

You know the answer to this one. No, you don't really need her to tell you that she doesn't like you (that way). It's obvious, it's clear, chalk it up as a learning experience and walk away.

 

You seem like a sensible logical guy in other people's threads/problems. Why is it you can't apply that same logic to your own personal situations?

 

Do you remember this response you gave to one goal earlier this month?

 

 

I mean if she likes me she should be initiating contact I figure. But she hasn't.

 

OK, there we have it.

 

She doesn't like you, time to move on.

 

 

Consider your reply to One Goal there... consider that as a reply to yourself

[betterdeal]

Why am I only good enough to be a girls friend and never anything more?

 

Is that what you believe?

[gaius]

Didn't you just pass up seeing a woman who looked like she came straight out of a russian bride catalog? Because she was “too far away”? I don't think you really want a woman as much as you think you do.

[somedude81]

Yes, unless you can move on completely without hearing it from her lips.

Which I don't think I can.

 

I'm such an idiot.

You'll probably end up feeling worse if you decide to have that talk with her.

Yeah, I'll feel really bad for a couple of days. But then I'd start to heal

I dunno, man. I think you know what needs to be done here, now that you've realized her feelings for you are not growing. I also think the last thing you need to worry about is losing progress, since you haven't even gotten anywhere close to where you'd hoped to get with this girl. I know she's gotten more comfortable around you and enjoys hanging out with you, but it's...going nowhere.

While it seems that way on the outside, it actually feels like a lot of progress for me. Right now this is the closest I have ever been been to a girl.

 

I chatted with her parents, they bought pizza for everybody, played games with her brothers friends, spent a lot of alone time with her. All things I would be doing if we were dating. But all of it was done as just a friend so it was done in the wrong way.

 

She has a guy friend that she's known since High School, so a her being with a male her age is apparently nothing new for her family.

But if it really needs to be done, ask her how she feels about you, get the answer, and go from there.

Yeah, I guess I might as well.

 

I'm just trying to think of what to ask. There are certain questions that will give me a definite no, so they won't really let me learn anything about her.

 

I have a few days to think about it.

 

Teknoe. Comparing me to One Goal. Really now?

Is that what you believe?

I've never had anything happen to me that tells me otherwise. I really wish it wasn't so.

 

There are so many variables about why I keep getting stuck as the buddy. I feel like I'm going to have to solve, the mystery of the universe, before it will ever let me touch a woman.

 

Didn't you just pass up seeing a woman who looked like she came straight out of a russian bride catalog? Because she was “too far away”? I don't think you really want a woman as much as you think you do.

Are you talking about Titiania?

 

If so and no disrespect to her, she's almost 40 and lives in Australia.

 

Because of my life experiences, I'm actually apprehensive about dating a woman my own age, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with an older woman. The distance is an absolute deal-breaker. An LDR wouldn't do sh*t for me. I need somebody I can 'touch,' soon and often.

 

Heck there is a woman on this forum, who on paper sounds like she'd be a perfect match for me. She even described the traits she prefers, physical and personality, which made it seem like she was looking at a picture of me. While she's at least in the US, she's still thousands of miles away.

 

A LDR would just drive me insane.

 

Heh, at least I got propositioned last week. ThsAmericanLife said that if I don't get laid in the next three years, she'd do me. So at least I can look forward to that. Though I don't know how I can last three more years without sex, which of course means three more years of no intimacy; three more years of friendzoned. Forgive me for not really looking toward the future.

[betterdeal]

So do you like being her buddy? And what is it you want - sex or a girlfriend?

Edited September 24, 2011 by betterdeal

[cerridwen]

Which I don't think I can.

 

I'm such an idiot.

 

Yeah, I'll feel really bad for a couple of days. But then I'd start to heal

 

While it seems that way on the outside, it actually feels like a lot of progress for me. Right now this is the closest I have ever been been to a girl.

 

I chatted with her parents, they bought pizza for everybody, played games with her brothers friends, spent a lot of alone time with her. All things I would be doing if we were dating. But all of it was done as just a friend so it was done in the wrong way.

 

She has a guy friend that she's known since High School, so a her being with a male her age is apparently nothing new for her family.

 

Yeah, I guess I might as well.

 

I'm just trying to think of what to ask. There are certain questions that will give me a definite no, so they won't really let me learn anything about her.

 

I have a few days to think about it.

 

Teknoe. Comparing me to One Goal. Really now?

 

I've never had anything happen to me that tells me otherwise. I really wish it wasn't so.

 

There are so many variables about why I keep getting stuck as the buddy. I feel like I'm going to have to solve, the mystery of the universe, before it will ever let me touch a woman.

 

 

Are you talking about Titiania?

 

If so and no disrespect to her, she's almost 40 and lives in Australia.

 

Because of my life experiences, I'm actually apprehensive about dating a woman my own age, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with an older woman. The distance is an absolute deal-breaker. An LDR wouldn't do sh*t for me. I need somebody I can 'touch,' soon and often.

 

Heck there is a woman on this forum, who on paper sounds like she'd be a perfect match for me. She even described the traits she prefers, physical and personality, which made it seem like she was looking at a picture of me. While she's at least in the US, she's still thousands of miles away.

 

A LDR would just drive me insane.

 

Heh, at least I got propositioned last week. ThsAmericanLife said that if I don't get laid in the next three years, she'd do me. So at least I can look forward to that. Though I don't know how I can last three more years without sex, which of course means three more years of no intimacy; three more years of friendzoned. Forgive me for not really looking toward the future.

 

You're not an idiot for needing to hear the words.

 

A friend of mine felt the same and when he heard them, it was very freeing.

Sure, disappointment was experienced.

But hearing straight from the horse that he'd never get a ride, or a relationship was liberating enough for him to move on.

[somedude81]

So do you like being her buddy? And what is it you want - sex or a girlfriend?

I do like being her buddy because we get along so well. It's fun being with her.

 

But I don't want her to just be my friend. I want her to be my girlfriend and of course sex is a part of that.

 

It seems like to me that a girlfriend is just a best friend that you sleep with. I don't understand the FWB thing where you can have regular sex with somebody and not actually be dating.

 

You're not an idiot for needing to hear the words.

 

A friend of mine felt the same and when he heard them, it was very freeing.

Sure, disappointment was experienced.

But hearing straight from the horse that he'd never get a ride, or a relationship was liberating enough for him to move on.

Really? I'm not being stupid for being this stubborn?

 

I want to tell her that she is confusing me and I need to know how she sees me.

 

Hearing the truth may be disappointing and pretty painful but it will help me move on.

[Beachgirl8]

Does she know you are interested in dating her?

[betterdeal]

What do you think being boyfriend and girlfriend involves?

[cerridwen]

 

Really? I'm not being stupid for being this stubborn?

 

I want to tell her that she is confusing me and I need to know how she sees me.

 

Hearing the truth may be disappointing and pretty painful but it will help me move on.

 

It's YOUR process, and the needs you have in order to move on shouldn't be judged.

 

There is progress.

As small as the increments are, there is progress.

I can tell from your posts.

 

You're already lamenting the investment you've made thus far---because part of you is contemplating it was all for naught.

Instead of being entirely focused on "this must work!" part of you is accepting that it likely isn't, and won't.

And you're mourning a bit.

That's progress.

[Teknoe]

Teknoe. Comparing me to One Goal. Really now?

 

uh, NO.

 

You did not see the BIG message, did you? Let me try it one more time.

 

 

 

OK, there we have it.

 

She doesn't like you, time to move on.

 

 

That's the advice you gave in someone else's thread, when their situation was hopeless. Why can't you take your own advice?

 

You seem smooth, sensible and logical in other people's threads. Why can't you take YOUR OWN ADVICE???

[Teknoe]

There is progress.

As small as the increments are, there is progress.

 

 

I do agree sd is making some progress. It may be very small, and he could certainly speed it up some more, but everyone operates at their own pace.

 

If he feels he needs to ask her straight up her feelings on him, or if they'll ever change, so be it.

 

My one wish in all this for him is how his thought process evolves from self-hatred to one of self-discovery and self-respect. He's doing it in a way I personally wouldn't go about it, but I guess he's at least doing something.

 

It's time to do something though. Either tell/ask her, or move on without her saying anything about it. Pick one. Do it. Move on accordingly.

[somedude81]

Does she know you are interested in dating her?

Yes she does. We've talked about it a few times. She's known that I liked her for almost as long as we've known each other.

 

She has some issues that help explain why she doesn't why to date me, or anybody at all. I'm slowly peeling away her layers but I don't have that much hope I can get her to date me. Even if she eventually decides she wants to start dating, she still has to like me.

What do you think being boyfriend and girlfriend involves?

Basically what I said earlier. A best friend that you can do everything else with as well.

 

I don't know anything about love but I'm sure that has a place in there as well.

 

I'm actually thinking about asking her that question so she can tell me why she is against it. Am I that bad of a person she can't imagine doing anything with me?

It's YOUR process, and the needs you have in order to move on shouldn't be judged.

 

There is progress.

As small as the increments are, there is progress.

I can tell from your posts.

 

You're already lamenting the investment you've made thus far---because part of you is contemplating it was all for naught.

Instead of being entirely focused on "this must work!" part of you is accepting that it likely isn't, and won't.

And you're mourning a bit.

That's progress.

Ugh, some how that doesn't make me feel that much better.

 

After every time my experience with a girl ends I learn a new lesson. The problem is that I keep collecting all these what not to do lessons and I'm just getting tired of it.

 

I want the actual thing for once! There is potentially thousands of ways I can screw up. I don't need to experience them all

Edited September 25, 2011 by somedude81

[Teknoe]

After every time my experience with a girl ends I learn a new lesson.

 

 

For your benefit, and just so it's clear to the rest of us, can you list some lessons you've learned from your past several crushes?

[cerridwen]

 

I'm actually thinking about asking her that question so she can tell me why she is against it. Am I that bad of a person she can't imagine doing anything with me?

 

Not at all.

From your descriptions, she's simply not very romantic or sexual.

 

Ugh, some how that doesn't make me feel that much better.

 

After every time my experience with a girl ends I learn a new lesson. The problem is that I keep collecting all these what not to do lessons and I'm just getting tired of it.

 

I want the actual thing for once! There is potentially thousands of ways I can screw up. I don't need to experience them all:(

God, I love it when you're dramatic!

Update when/if you speak with her about this.

In the meantime, like you, we'll all be living and loving and collecting "these what not to do lessons."

 

Damn things keep coming.

It's not just you.

Edited September 26, 2011 by cerridwen

[andybermudez7]

Well I'm a new poster here, I just came across this and can really relate to what SD is experiencing...like probably all the guys on here. The thing is his situation is more amplified than might be typical, and certainly many guys just deal with this stuff internally rather than for the world to see. Even with guy friends, come on, when something like this is going on, it's common to "white wash" the issue over. Guy friends can be a tough crowd. And bottom line, even with great, super solid friends, yes, they are going to lend an ear and maybe try to cheer you up, but that's all they can really do.

 

For what it's worth, here are a couple thoughts:

 

1. SD is a thinker. Some people are bigger thinkers than others. I am too and when I get stuck in my own thoughts, the self-absorption affects both my actions and how I perceive events taking place. Thinking is great, and as a natural thinker, you can't exactly deny that impulse, but you've got to manage it. Otherwise it really clouds over what is going on.

 

2. Related to above, too much thinking, especially with a girl, especially with a girl you're obsessed with, makes everything goal oriented. Like analyzing communication patterns or response times or really analyzing anything. It's hard to truly enjoy being with someone when you're analyzing everything going on and doing or saying things based on an outcome. Yes, a little thinking and observation is certainly appropriate, but feel and instinct will get totally lost if you're not careful. I constantly run into this issue. More importantly, you will forget to have fun with all the thinking going on, and worst of all if you are thinking and analyzing instead of enjoying, you won't remember the experience/fun, you'll just remember the frustrated thinking going on. (vicious cycle)

 

3. Regarding the write up from SD on 9/23, man, I totally know the feeling, and most guys, even the Don Juans out there, have dealt with a situation where you wanted to be more than friends with a girl, but it wasn't happening. But if you spent an entire day with a girl and had a fun time with her, she doesn't "not like you at all." The thing is, she probably knows/feels there's an awkward dynamic with you especially at the end of a full day like that, because face it, you are just friends. (And also, that is why she "paces" you with the phone and text. Her not being super responsive is reminding you you two are friends only.) For whatever reason, the chemistry has not escalated to the point where she wants or feels comfortable getting physical with you. As much as I know how pissed that can make a guy feel...dude, she likes you as a friend. Spending any time analyzing this is absolute torture (see #1). I haven't read all the posts in depth (sorry 30 pages is a lot!), but it sure seems like you are stuck in this absolute torture phase, where you pretty much always knew you were in the friend zone, but are fixated on getting passed the friend zone with this girl.

 

4. Getting passed the friend zone with a girl that is solidly in that zone is not easy for the most confident guy, and since you haven't had the most experience with girls, achieving that will be extremely difficult and unlikely. I'm not trying to be negative, quite the opposite. Just realize and get used to the actual reality of the situation/even the feeling of it (beyond anger/frustration). Size up the situation. You would tell a buddy of yours in the same situation basically, "good luck, but that's a long shot." All I am saying is try to separate your mood from the success of this situation.

 

5. I said 4 first, because obviously, you still want to try with this girl. It would be great to hear from some of these frequent posters situations where they successfully went from a friend zone situation to a physical relationship or even a committed bf/gf situation. I have a couple tips which have worked (not that I am some kind of expert, far from it!). First, I had a situation where the "friendship" was annoying at first because I was not getting what I wanted. Then I accepted it entirely and my actions showed that. I just focused on enjoying the friendship. I started being much lighter/carefree on texts and calls (as opposed to obvious lead ins to "when are we getting together again"), and when we did see each other, I never created any situation at all where the girl thought I might "try" or "ask" or "imply" anything that would suggest in the back of my mind I wanted more, mainly because I stopped thinking that way. Ultimately, this allowed a lot more free flow conversations (esp since I wasn't analyzing everything anymore), a lot more laughing, etc. Well with a little alcohol, sparks flew. But this was after months of hanging out and stuff to the point where I was truly passed the idea of more than friends. This led to a physical relationship for a while. The second example was where I ended up being friends with multiple girls who were mutual friends. When girls see you being friends and comfortable with other girls, this opens doors. Sometimes it is because the girl feels like you are "validated" by the other girl or whatever (it is a feel not a thought as much) and yes, sometimes out of jealousy for attention, a girl is just going to be more likely to warm up to you. This led to a gf relationship (the initial opening was probably a combination of both motives). A third situation was where I was a friend of a girl I did not think was interested in me, but just by being friends with her a situation arose where we went on a date like a friend date. This led to a gf relationship. So my point here is friend relationships can lead to more, but you have to own the friendship part and not have in your head, "this friend thing sucks, I want more." My fourth and last example is a situation where I had that mentality, actually for quite a long time, and I was just totally frustrated, even though the friendship was one of the deepest I ever had. There is no happy ending to this one. Eventually girls that want you in the friend zone and you constantly have the "I want more" in the back of your mind (and trust me, girls may not KNOW, but they FEEL, exactly what is on your mind...most pretty much do have a 6th sense!), will stop spending time with you. Trust me. They will even be put in a situation where they feel sorry for you. If you are putting a girl in this situation, hell would absolutely freeze over before you would have a shot at getting physical or dating. The key is rather than throwing an uncontrollable "I want more" vibe out, own the friendship (i.e. don't fake being cool with just being friends, actually just be her friend) and you might be surprised.

 

6. I got a lot of vibe from the comments that SD does not value friendships with guys or girls. Making and keeping friends is something I have to work at...for whatever reason, it's just not an automatic for me, either, so I can relate to the challenge but have a totally opposite view on their value. My experience is, especially for a guy without a lot of real world dating experience, having a few solid "girl friends" is incredibly valuable. Learning about the opposite sex from this vantage point is so helpful. I noticed SD saying he has or could have a lot of girls that are friends. If so, that is awesome, because it will be easy to make great use of this. Girls that are "just friends" do not mind (in fact love) innocent flirting, joking around and laughing, discussing their love/sex life, going out, going shopping, and any number of other areas where that "practice" with friends will pay off when dating options present themselves. Also, if you really are a good friend and have worked on your social skills around women, you will get referrals (in fact, when you've "proven" yourself, you can just ask for them). Whenever I am in a rut, I kick up the frequency I hang out with girl friends exactly for these reasons. In a way this is a crutch, but I think it is a very healthy crutch and a great example of what friends are for.

 

Anyway, good luck SD, I'm sure some of this will or won't work for you right now...I know the feelings that come with where you're at and they totally suck! I also would not be very open to hearing a lot of self help stuff, but the folks on here are rooting for you, too. And don't worry about the mechanics of the physical stuff. Girls love to be kissed...and as they say, it takes two to tango!!

[Teknoe]

For your benefit, and just so it's clear to the rest of us, can you list some lessons you've learned from your past several crushes?

 

cerridwen, can you ask SD this question? Maybe he'll answer if you ask it, because he is clearly avoiding this question and/or me. The question above is very valid, I don't know why he hasn't answered it yet. Has he written down lessons he's learned anywhere? In a private journal perhaps? It'd be nice to read the lessons he thinks he has learned. Dunno why he's avoiding this question.

 

 

6. I got a lot of vibe from the comments that SD does not value friendships with guys or girls. Making and keeping friends is something I have to work at...for whatever reason, it's just not an automatic for me, either, so I can relate to the challenge but have a totally opposite view on their value. My experience is, especially for a guy without a lot of real world dating experience, having a few solid "girl friends" is incredibly valuable. Learning about the opposite sex from this vantage point is so helpful. I noticed SD saying he has or could have a lot of girls that are friends. If so, that is awesome, because it will be easy to make great use of this. Girls that are "just friends" do not mind (in fact love) innocent flirting, joking around and laughing, discussing their love/sex life, going out, going shopping, and any number of other areas where that "practice" with friends will pay off when dating options present themselves. Also, if you really are a good friend and have worked on your social skills around women, you will get referrals (in fact, when you've "proven" yourself, you can just ask for them). Whenever I am in a rut, I kick up the frequency I hang out with girl friends exactly for these reasons. In a way this is a crutch, but I think it is a very healthy crutch and a great example of what friends are for.

 

andy, great GREAT post! I hope SD internalizes some of what you said, as there is a lot of truth behind your post. I especially totally agree with #6. I just feel when you're in a major rut/slump like SD81 is, the biggest thing is to be OPEN MINDED. He's so goal-oriented (how do I get her to kiss me, should I use alcohol? How do I get her to take off her jacket? How do I get intimate with her?) that he's putting a lot of pressure on himself. He's not being IN the moment (most likely anyhow) and really just frustrating himself.

 

OPEN MINDEDNESS. Be open to different ideas and activities! Unfortunately Andy, so far, it seems he's more content having the victim's mentality (i.e. he continually blames his "lack of success" on 2 things -- his being 5'5" and his inability to appropriately flirt). As long as he has this victim's mentality, he will always feel like a victim.

 

I've tried to help him a lot in these past 30 pages, a LOT OF US HAS, but he's ignored every bit of advice we've given him. Now he's told me to back off. You know why Andy? I've noticed SD has commitment issues. When you get too close for comfort to him, when you become more than just an "anonymous internet stranger poster" he vents to, he pulls away. This clearly explains why he has trouble making friends in real life. It's a classic pattern. I was trying to get him to be more accountable, like a real life friend would do, and he totally pulled away. This explains why he doesn't have real life friends and doesn't care. Commitment issues. He might deny it, but I'm pretty sure he has more commitment issues as opposed to "he doesn't."

 

5. It would be great to hear from some of these frequent posters situations where they successfully went from a friend zone situation to a physical relationship or even a committed bf/gf situation.

 

My first GF was my best friend. Friends thought I was friend zoned. But we kept hanging out, as I said we were best friends, and after a while she realized how much I cared about her. For example, I got her a job (her first job ever) at my work place. I'd do my shift 10-4, she'd come in 4-close and I would STAY with her to make sure she was alright and I WASN'T GETTING PAID. This was when we were best friends.

 

She saw my heart. My care for her. And that, for girls, is incredibly attractive. But it's gotta be SELFLESS. Girls have an amazing ability to know when you're just doing that stuff to GET SOME. I genuinely cared about her well-being, so I stayed on her shifts (I was there WHOLE day but only paid HALF day), and she saw that she could REALLY trust me, that I was trustworthy, reliable like a ROCK and that I really cared for her like no one else in the world from a selfless viewpoint.

 

Again, this goes back to what you said Andy about SD's goal oriented thought process. He's thinking very selfishly. How do I kiss her. How do I have her take off her jacket? How do I get intimate with her when she doesn't want to? You guys notice a pattern here: It's ALL ABOUT HIM. It's ALL ABOUT HIS DESIRES. Even against her wishes i.e. she doesn't like him that way, but he still tries, which puts BOTH of them in an awkward position, but especially her. Then SD has the gall to come here and blame things on her when she wants nothing more than a casual "let's hang out ONCE IN A WHILE" friendship. This is actually very unhealthy and very selfish of SD81. The worst thing is, his pride blocks him from admitting and realizing this fact. Until he humbles himself and sees the situation as reality, I don't know if he'll ever actually improve. Right now, for the past 30 pages he's kind of ran around in circles. I know he may not read this, but I know you Andy at least will. Maybe this extra info will help you understand SD81 better, since you are new.

 

So yeah, basically I busted the friend zone by being genuine, sincere, and I put HER NEEDS BEFORE MINE. I was selfless. And girls dig that. Most girls do. Girls WORTH BEING WITH dig that. They want to be with someone who can protect them... not just physically but emotionally.

 

I should also mention during our best friends stage, this guy was hitting on her and she was starting to get uncomfortable. This was at the store we worked at. So I stepped up in his face and told him to get lost. We exchanged some words but eventually he left rather peacefully. I looked back at her and she was impressed, amazed and thankful I stood up for her. Protecting the girl physically AND emotionally is huge in their minds. It's SEXY.

 

And never once did I obsess about a GOAL of getting with her. I was enjoying the moment, not thinking ahead, just taking it in. Then one night things really clicked, I kissed her and boom, we became BF-GF.

[somedude81]

Ugh. I spent a lot of time replying to andybermudez7 and cerridwen's posts. I took a break from typing to do other stuff. In the process I forgot that I had a tab open and closed my browser to clear up memory. And in doing so, I lost everything I've written

 

So yes, I've read all the posts, even Teknoes.

 

I'm going to see her on Wednesday and try to talk about some of the things on my mind.

 

I want to find out what the current story is with her needing to be more comfortable and trust me more etc.

 

Odds are it may be the last time we hang out. I'm not looking forward to 'losing' her.

[cerridwen]

There's potential for good to come from your talk, SD.

 

Maybe not "boyfriend-girlfriend good", but something.

Perhaps a greater understanding of each other will result.

Perhaps you'll experience compassion if you're able to get to the bottom of her reluctance for intimacy.

 

Maybe you'll discover it's not you at all---that you're quite worthy of love but that she has valid reasons for not giving it at the moment.

 

You may experience great relief.

You may feel a weight lifted.

It might not feel like a loss at all, but an illuminating.

 

I'm going to hope something positive for you, friend, even if it's only greater acceptance of what is.

[Cracker Jack]

Yeah, I'm glad you're ready to have that talk with her. It has to be done. This is what it all comes down to. In all likelihood, her feelings have probably remained unchanged, even after all of the hanging out you guys did.

 

But, who knows? Perhaps this talk could be the hail mary that actually works in your favor. Her feelings could've been developing for you throughout, but since she's not familiar in this area, it's possible that she simply choose to ignore them, since she didn't know how to go about expressing herself to you. The talk could reveal these feelings.

 

Wishful thinking on my part, sure, but you never know with things like this. No matter what, try your best to take something positive out of this talk. I like how cerridwen gave an outline of the few potential positive outcomes that are very likely here. I know it'll suck if she has no interest in being more than friends, but at least you can walk away knowing you gave it your all with no regrets.

 

Good luck, pal.

[somedude81]

Sorry for being a downer, but I have no hope that anything positive is going to happen. None.

 

The last thing I need is to get excited then having my hopes crushed. It's happened to me way too many times.

 

But yes, there will be some relief and getting a load off my shoulders after the the pain passes.

[betterdeal]

How about going into it open minded? Neither pinning all your hopes of a new Zion on it nor predicting the Last Days? Most of life occurs between the two.

[Teknoe]

Sorry for being a downer, but I have no hope that anything positive is going to happen. None.

 

Are you apologizing TO us, or FOR yourself? Because you should know (if you don't already), you don't need to apologize TO us. But you do have a lot to apologize FOR yourself. It's your mind that is causing you all this self-torment. It's not the girl's fault.

 

I wish you the best for Wednesday.

 

And still curious: What lessons have you learned from past crush experiences?

[cerridwen]

cerridwen, can you ask SD this question? Maybe he'll answer if you ask it, because he is clearly avoiding this question and/or me. The question above is very valid, I don't know why he hasn't answered it yet. Has he written down lessons he's learned anywhere? In a private journal perhaps? It'd be nice to read the lessons he thinks he has learned. Dunno why he's avoiding this question.

 

Sorry, Teknoe.

I didn't mean to ignore you.

Maybe SD's focusing on another aspect of the situation, for which journaling is not a part.

 

If I may...

 

In the past, I saw a therapist for insight, and sometimes, just for 50 minutes of b.s..

She'd offer help and suggestions.

I took some and left others that didn't particularly resonate with me.

 

She wasn't offended, nor did she ask me about those I didn't choose to implement.

She kept a healthy emotional detachment that allowed interaction without guilt or pressure.

I, in turn, was allowed to steer things in a direction that worked best given my emotional and psychological constructs at the time.

It was a productive relationship.

 

So, I'm wondering if your passion and methods aren't butting up against SD's and frustration is the result for both of you.

Dunno, really.

But you strike me as a genuinely caring individual, so I hoped to offer a bit of food for thought.

Healthy detachment.

It's very useful.