I feel like crap

[Els]

I've never said that all I want is sex from a girl. I've said the opposite many times.

 

Ideally, I would want my girlfriend to be my best friend.

 

Obviously sex is necessary, because without it, we'd just be friends.

 

 

But that does not make sense. You said you don't require friends because it's pointless. Why would you want a gf to be your friend then? And if that's not what you mean, why not try to have BOTH friends and a gf? At least if you're not getting friends + sex you can still at least have friends instead of nothing?

[tman666]

Here's probably the biggest reason that you should try and make some male friends: the vast majority of girls will think (often correctly) that a guy without any other friends, let alone male friends, is an oddball or damaged in some way. As soon as they realize that your life consists of you and you alone, the warning bells will start going off.

 

I have never, ever seen anyone go from having no friends at all to finding a girlfriend or other meaningful romantic relationship. I don't think it's possible.

[fortyninethousand322]

Here's probably the biggest reason that you should try and make some male friends: the vast majority of girls will think (often correctly) that a guy without any other friends, let alone male friends, is an oddball or damaged in some way. As soon as they realize that your life consists of you and you alone, the warning bells will start going off.

 

I have never, ever seen anyone go from having no friends at all to finding a girlfriend or other meaningful romantic relationship. I don't think it's possible.

 

This is pretty much spot on. I mean as much as I lament my own lack of female companionship (although I've been much more accepting of it as of late) I can't imagine having no friends. That kind of social isolation would be cause enough for crippling depression, let alone the girl thing.

 

Somedude, you like video games and the like. Isn't there some kind of social group you could join that likes that kind of stuff? Isn't there some kind of hobby that would help you meet people you could be friends with?

[turnera]

But that does not make sense. You said you don't require friends because it's pointless. Why would you want a gf to be your friend then? And if that's not what you mean, why not try to have BOTH friends and a gf? At least if you're not getting friends + sex you can still at least have friends instead of nothing?

Exactly.

 

What exactly do you envision happening if she DID go out with you? Would you then spend every spare minute with her? Expect her to give up her friends and going out with her friends because now she has YOU?

 

That is unhealthy, unrealistic, and harmful for both of you.

 

And if you DON'T expect her to give up her friends and friend time, what will you be doing while she is out having fun without you? Waiting for her? Calling her? Texting her? Getting mad at her for 'choosing' them over you?

 

Won't work, dude. She'll drop you like a hot potato. AND warn her friends to stay away from you.

 

THAT is why you need some friends.

[fortyninethousand322]

Exactly.

 

What exactly do you envision happening if she DID go out with you? Would you then spend every spare minute with her? Expect her to give up her friends and going out with her friends because now she has YOU?

 

That is unhealthy, unrealistic, and harmful for both of you.

 

And if you DON'T expect her to give up her friends and friend time, what will you be doing while she is out having fun without you? Waiting for her? Calling her? Texting her? Getting mad at her for 'choosing' them over you?

 

Won't work, dude. She'll drop you like a hot potato. AND warn her friends to stay away from you.

 

THAT is why you need some friends.

 

I suppose if he's the loner type, he'd be doing something else that he likes (like playing video games, or watching a movie, whatever). I mean he needs friends (for his emotional sanity) but it's not like he has to be a social butterfly, and if he isn't he's going to be waiting for her like a lost puppy. There's plenty of stuff to entertain yourself with when not with one's SO these days, with or without friends.

[Els]

When I started this school I entered as a transfer student. So I basically had a different starting experience then most of the people. It's far to late for me to live in a dorm. Especially that most people who do dorm are 18-20.

 

Ah, yeah, I feel you there. I also joined my classes in the middle, so it isn't easy making friends when most people have been together since Year 1.

 

I think I misunderstood what you said previously. Do you not have any friends or do you just not have any male friends?

[somedude81]

But that does not make sense. You said you don't require friends because it's pointless. Why would you want a gf to be your friend then? And if that's not what you mean, why not try to have BOTH friends and a gf? At least if you're not getting friends + sex you can still at least have friends instead of nothing?

Really, you've never heard somebody say that there partner is their best friend?

 

I want a woman that I can also enjoy doing other things besides sex with. Is that so complicated to understand?

Here's probably the biggest reason that you should try and make some male friends: the vast majority of girls will think (often correctly) that a guy without any other friends, let alone male friends, is an oddball or damaged in some way. As soon as they realize that your life consists of you and you alone, the warning bells will start going off.

 

I have never, ever seen anyone go from having no friends at all to finding a girlfriend or other meaningful romantic relationship. I don't think it's possible.

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

 

She doesn't really have to know what I do when I'm not with her as long as I'm not doing anything bad.

This is pretty much spot on. I mean as much as I lament my own lack of female companionship (although I've been much more accepting of it as of late) I can't imagine having no friends. That kind of social isolation would be cause enough for crippling depression, let alone the girl thing.

 

Somedude, you like video games and the like. Isn't there some kind of social group you could join that likes that kind of stuff? Isn't there some kind of hobby that would help you meet people you could be friends with?

I've tried that already.

 

Video game, anime and Japan clubs on campus. Most of the guys who like the same things I do are pretty much awkward just like me. Though there were a couple of guys that I tried to become friends with, but they basically forgot about me when I tried to hang out.

Exactly.

 

What exactly do you envision happening if she DID go out with you? Would you then spend every spare minute with her? Expect her to give up her friends and going out with her friends because now she has YOU?

 

That is unhealthy, unrealistic, and harmful for both of you.

When one is in a relationship. What is the average amount of time people spend together, assuming they are living separately. I would be happy to get together with my GF twice a week, but that number may be a bit high.

 

 

And if you DON'T expect her to give up her friends and friend time, what will you be doing while she is out having fun without you? Waiting for her? Calling her? Texting her? Getting mad at her for 'choosing' them over you?

I've got work, school and plenty of other things to keep me occupied. What ever she does on her own time isn't my business and she can do what she wants as long as it won't be detrimental to the relationship.

 

I'd expect the same thoughts from her.

Ah, yeah, I feel you there. I also joined my classes in the middle, so it isn't easy making friends when most people have been together since Year 1.

 

I think I misunderstood what you said previously. Do you not have any friends or do you just not have any male friends?

The only person I can call my friend right now is her and I realize how little that is saying.

 

There are guys at work and a couple of school that I talk to when I see them, but I don't have any desire to hang out with them. One guy who I thought I might have a possibility of becoming friends with, recently ratted me out to our boss over something really minor. So I'll pass on him.

 

One thing I noticed is that girls seem to be a lot more open to making new friends than men are. I wonder if other people have experienced that.

Edited October 7, 2011 by somedude81

[turnera]

Really, you've never heard somebody say that there partner is their best friend?

Your partner should be your best friend...BUT.

 

She should never be your only friend. Look it up. It's not healthy for either of you. This is just another excuse for you not listening to advice.

[turnera]

ReallyVideo game, anime and Japan clubs on campus. Most of the guys who like the same things I do are pretty much awkward just like me. Though there were a couple of guys that I tried to become friends with, but they basically forgot about me when I tried to hang out.

So, let me get this straight. These guys you tried to be friends with were NOT the awkward ones?

 

So...You have no friends. You go to a club to make friends and you see loner, geeky (short?) guys like you and you decide they aren't worth being friends with, they're losers, so you ignore them, and you target the outgoing, have-it-together, popular guys and try to get them to include you so you can be part of their clique, and they don't, so you give up?

 

Now I get it. You're a snob. The only people you want to waste time on is the cool people. But YOU'RE not cool, so they won't give you the time of day. So you will go through your whole life alone. Because no one else is good enough to waste time on. Is that it?

[somedude81]

Wow turnera, you assume a lot.

 

It's really tiring writing back and forth with you.

[Teknoe]

Now I get it. You're a snob. The only people you want to waste time on is the cool people. But YOU'RE not cool, so they won't give you the time of day.

 

I don't think SD is a snob. I think he's just a guy who is too close-minded for his own good, especially for someone in his shoes (i.e. no social circle whatsoever to speak of). Instead of being open and earnestly trying different things, he has a predetermined opinion in his head, and he's stubborn sticking to it.

 

That's why this thread has gone this long and we all can see his thought life has progressed little IF none. This is a guy who is extremely stubborn and refuses to open his mind to opinions outside his predetermined box.

 

 

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

 

She doesn't really have to know what I do when I'm not with her as long as I'm not doing anything bad.

 

Again, you have your opinion that it's not impossible, and you're refusing to see the situation from TMAN's perspective. Most people would agree with TMAN (as do I) that it's pretty much impossible to go from having ZERO friends of ANY kind to suddenly be in a relationship with a girlfriend. As TMAN said, most girls' alarms will ring off when they see you have no friends... you are then considered "unsafe." That's just reality. Girls like feeling safe. Girls like confident self-reliant guys who have a life outside just "winning the girl's heart." Because when he does, he won't make her priority #1, #2, and #3 (what a burden for the girl to be the SOLE source of satisfying him emotionally, spiritually and physically). He needs to have his own hobbies, his own friends, his own outlets.

 

TMan is right here. And you say she doesn't have to know, but guess what, she's going to know one way or another.

 

And you didn't answer Ross or me. How is the self-help MP3s going? What are your thoughts on reading Battlefield of the Mind? Please answer these two questions.

[turnera]

Wow turnera, you assume a lot.

 

It's really tiring writing back and forth with you.

That's cool. Good luck with your life.

 

Remember me when you're 45 and still alone and still think it's everyone else's fault.

[PelicanPete]

Wow turnera, you assume a lot.

 

 

Haha, well SD's right ya know. You did make a lot of assumptions.

 

After examining this situation and looking past my own bias's, I think it would be best to just let SD do his own thing. We all want to help him, but pressuring him to do x, and trying to shove y down his throat, isn't going to make him do it. If anything, all that is going to do is make him feel like he has to defend himself, which chemically causes his thinking to become close minded and unreceptive to new ideas.

 

SD, you're a grown man and therefore are responsible for your own path through life. As much as I'd love to see you in a happy and healthy relationship, you have to get there on your own terms. I really do hope that you talk to that female and give it straight to her, and decide once and for all whether to continue or move on with her.

 

You don't have to listen to self help mp3s, or join clubs, or make a whole ton of new friends, but you do have to find your own path through life. Find what works for you and makes you happy, and harness it. People are naturally drawn to those who are happy, and it will make finding a girlfriend a lot easier if you're already happy.

 

I'm sorry if I seemed harsh on you in previous posts. I'm not going to tell you what to do anymore, you have your own set of beliefs which you are entitled to. If you don't want anyones help, then no one can help you. As much as we'd love to make your happiness our responsibility, we can't because it will forever be yours. I hope you find what you're looking for soon, because no one is ever going to be able to give it to you.

[Teknoe]

After examining this situation and looking past my own bias's, I think it would be best to just let SD do his own thing. We all want to help him, but pressuring him to do x, and trying to shove y down his throat, isn't going to make him do it. If anything, all that is going to do is make him feel like he has to defend himself, which chemically causes his thinking to become close minded and unreceptive to new ideas.

 

SD, you're a grown man and therefore are responsible for your own path through life. As much as I'd love to see you in a happy and healthy relationship, you have to get there on your own terms. I really do hope that you talk to that female and give it straight to her, and decide once and for all whether to continue or move on with her.

 

You don't have to listen to self help mp3s, or join clubs, or make a whole ton of new friends, but you do have to find your own path through life. Find what works for you and makes you happy, and harness it. People are naturally drawn to those who are happy, and it will make finding a girlfriend a lot easier if you're already happy.

 

I'm sorry if I seemed harsh on you in previous posts. I'm not going to tell you what to do anymore, you have your own set of beliefs which you are entitled to. If you don't want anyones help, then no one can help you. As much as we'd love to make your happiness our responsibility, we can't because it will forever be yours. I hope you find what you're looking for soon, because no one is ever going to be able to give it to you.

 

 

Good post. I agree with this. I feel at this point, and even since the very beginning, SD has felt like he's been attacked, ganged up on, and he probably feels like he has to defend himself. If you read his 100s of replies, it's quite self-evident. How many "No..." "LOL wrong" "I don't think" type posts have we seen from him where he tried to defend his cause?

 

We're just running around in circles here. In the end, we can't change someone. Only that individual's self-conviction can. And it comes at different points for everyone.

 

I just hope and pray one day SD wakes up and something CLICKS inside. We can give advice til we're blue in the face (and for some of us, that might not be far from the truth), but bottom line is his own convictions.

 

I will join in your pledge Pete, and I too will stop giving advice to SD (unless he asks for it). Also, I want to apologize if I came off harshly in my posts to you SD in the past. It's obvious I have developed an emotional bond with trying to help you, but I see at this point written text on LoveShack does nothing to help.

 

Hopefully some of the things we've written/suggested will flash in your mind on those lonely nights. (i.e. reading Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer).

 

But yeah, it's clear this thread is running in circles and that SD feels like he has to defend himself. A defensive person is not in healthy position to self-improve. So taking Pete's suggestion to back off and see how things unfold for SD (at his own pace and as he knows how) is probably for the best.

 

On a final note, I wonder what SD is doing tonight. Friday night. Life is short. Enjoy it! Live it up! To answer my own question, I'll be ushering at a concert I'm really looking forward to it. I like the idea of greeting strangers with a firm handshake and a smile, showing them to their seats.

 

Do I have issues of my own?

 

HECK YEAH!

 

I'm quite messed up myself, lol.

 

But I refuse to NOT seek out opportunities to grow and help out others. I've never ushered for a concert before (it's gonna be PACKED!) but I know it will expand my horizons, I'm keeping an open mind and I know it will be 50x better than staying at home on a Friday night surfing the internet by my lonesome.

 

Be open to change! Be open to life. That is a good way to live. Tonight, I live that out by ushering for a concert. Greeting 100s of strangers and listening to live music... not a bad way to put yourself out there and enjoy life tonight.

 

Am I nervous? Actually yes, as I've never done anything on this LARGE a scale, but will I let my nerves get the best of me? No.

 

SD, I hope you will try new things in your life, or give old things another chance. You never know how it might bless ya (or others).

[turnera]

Haha, well SD's right ya know. You did make a lot of assumptions.

Based on 15 pages of me trying to draw out of him what he is and isn't willing to try, to get what he wants. Notice he didn't exactly deny that he snubbed the geeks.

 

But you're right. We're trying to get him to do what WE know works...for the rest of us. If it doesn't gel, it doesn't gel.

 

He'll do his own thing and get his same results...until the discomfort and pain becomes enough that he is finally ready to change the core issues. Obviously he's not there yet.

Edited October 7, 2011 by turnera

[Teknoe]

He'll do his own thing and get his same results...until the discomfort and pain becomes enough that he is finally ready to change the core issues. Obviously he's not there yet.

 

 

Right. And what's the definition of crazy?

 

Doing something over and over that hasn't worked, but expecting different results.

 

That could apply to SD's life choices, but it also applies to US giving him the same type of advice over and over, hoping that somehow, this reply of ours would help something to "click" inside him.

 

Yes, everyone has a cracking point and everyone's "ready" on different time schedules. i.e. someone could have preached the benefits of knowing Jesus Christ as a savior but if my heart is not ready or ready to be open to that, it's useless. But, then one day I truly hit rock bottom. Then I was ready. I was willing. And it has made all the difference.

 

It might not necessarily come in the form of Jesus for SD, but at some point he will hit the cracking point as many of us have in our own lives. I don't think, and not to discount the pain he's already experienced, but yes it is clear he is not truly there yet. He still enjoys (whether he knows it or not) his current lifestyle too much to make a real ditch effort toward change. He's become too accustomed to his lifestyle of "woe is me."

 

Nothing we can say can help him at this point. It has to come from a deep internal groaning that sincerely hungers after change.

[Els]

Really, you've never heard somebody say that there partner is their best friend?

 

I want a woman that I can also enjoy doing other things besides sex with. Is that so complicated to understand?

 

I definitely understand that part, SD.

 

What I don't understand is the part where you said you can't be bothered making other friends because it's worthless. All you want is that ONE woman, for everything. Why can't you try and enjoy the friendship aspects in OTHER people (which is much easier to get than sex for most guys, really) while looking for that one woman? Why is it all or nothing?

[somedude81]

I definitely understand that part, SD.

 

What I don't understand is the part where you said you can't be bothered making other friends because it's worthless. All you want is that ONE woman, for everything. Why can't you try and enjoy the friendship aspects in OTHER people (which is much easier to get than sex for most guys, really) while looking for that one woman? Why is it all or nothing?

I'm not against friendship with guys at all.

 

It's just that I have little energy left to put into pursuing guys for friendship.

 

Frankly, it's kind of lame that I always have to be the outgoing one to try and get a friendship going, and I'm not that outgoing of a guy in the first place.

 

If I have to chase somebody, I rather chase girls. Then once I caught one, I can focus on trying to make friends.

[Teknoe]

If I have to chase somebody, I rather chase girls. Then once I caught one, I can focus on trying to make friends.

 

 

Have you ever thought that maybe it works better the other way around? That you make friends first, develop a decent social circle, you get your mind off girls all the time, and then the right one comes along and wants to join you in life's journey?

 

As TMan stated earlier, it's very rare to go from no friends whatsoever to girlfriend. It's kind of like trying to buy a 20,000 car when you're on a 10,000 dollar budget.

[Teknoe]

speaking of friends, here's a quick story of how friendship helps us.

 

-Last Saturday I had a friend treat me out to a concert. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. He wouldn't have gone without me. We helped each other. And we enjoyed a good night of music, fun and friendship. Otherwise I would have stayed home alone watching another movie or surfing the internet

 

-My current job came based on the strong referral of my dear friend. Without her, I doubt I would have gotten the job

 

-When I'm depressed, I can call a few friends who can talk me through my sorrow. This is HUGE. Very uplifting. I can talk to these people an hour plus at a time

 

-Friends help keep me accountable. I say I will do something -- they check up on me later to see if I done it. I do the same for them. It's nice and makes it easier to follow through on, knowing you got friends who will be checking in

 

Bottom line, you need friends. If you don't have any, 1). life will kinda suck and 2). it's really hard attracting a girl to you because loners raise many red flags in the girl's mind

 

I'd hate to go through life alone, without any friends.

 

It's scary putting yourself out there, but it's worth it.

 

Good luck SD

[betterdeal]

So I went out for a drink with my new house-mate and some of my friends last night. Turns out my house-mate's girlfriend has a friend who's single, pretty and sounds like someone I'd like. Maybe we'll get introduced when they get back from their holiday. Then we started talking to some girls who were sharing our table - they were funny; one is opening a cafe down the road, the other a marine biologist. They left and another pair of girls took their place and they were great to chat to too. Bit young for me, but good for a laugh anyway. All good fun.

 

You know what? It's about engaging, getting involved.

[Els]

I'm not against friendship with guys at all.

 

It's just that I have little energy left to put into pursuing guys for friendship.

 

Frankly, it's kind of lame that I always have to be the outgoing one to try and get a friendship going, and I'm not that outgoing of a guy in the first place.

 

If I have to chase somebody, I rather chase girls. Then once I caught one, I can focus on trying to make friends.

 

Oh, I see what you mean.

 

IME it has been the other way round from what you noticed: guys seem more open to starting new friendships than girls are; girls tend to be open to it but will not make the first move. Then again, could just be the society I lived in previously - guys were a lot easier to form friendships with without requiring you to do things with them ALL THE TIME (like going to the toilet together in between classes - wtf?).

 

In the Western society I am currently in, it does seem that many guys my age are aloof and not too eager to go beyond an acquaintanship with anyone. Or it could just be that they don't think they could form any sort of meaningful friendship with an Asian female, I guess.

 

I guess it would not hurt for you to make more female friends, if you find those sorts of friendships easier. Just don't get devastated when you fall for them and they have a bf or are not interested.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Elswyth

[HeavenOrHell]

Doesn't matter if you have male or female friends, all friends are precious, you've had women want to be friends with you, so it's not always you doing the pursuing with them.

Friends have always been as important to me as my partner. It doesn't work pursuing a partner but not friends, you'll never be lonely if you have friends, whether you're single or not, but single with no friends would suck.

 

 

 

I'm not against friendship with guys at all.

 

It's just that I have little energy left to put into pursuing guys for friendship.

 

Frankly, it's kind of lame that I always have to be the outgoing one to try and get a friendship going, and I'm not that outgoing of a guy in the first place.

 

If I have to chase somebody, I rather chase girls. Then once I caught one, I can focus on trying to make friends.

[Teknoe]

I can't believe I'm going to give some credit to the Spice Girls, but they got at least one thing right when they sang these infamous lyrics:

 

"If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends."

 

Most girls in the world have friends. Most girls really value the input/opinion of their friends. When their friends give their potential BF the collective thumbs up, you're pretty much IN. Yes, the girl's attraction to you is the main thing, but these are the LITTLE BIG things that count for much, too.

 

It's just wise to be well-rounded, well-verse and able to hold yourself with dignity in public. Since you really hate who you are, not very many girls are going to find you attractive. Add in the fact that you're not a 10, a 9 or an 8... or even a 7... and it's no surprise you've experienced the lack of success thus far in your life.

 

Good news is, you can change this by first shifting the way your mind likes to think. It will take effort and persistence on your part though. It really comes down to just how bad you want it

[somedude81]

you've had women want to be friends with you, so it's not always you doing the pursuing with them.

Of course it's been me always doing the pursuing.

 

All of my friendships with women developed because I invited them do to something with me. 90% of the time I actually wanted a date or a pre-date but I wasn't obvious enough for her.

 

Then over time, a platonic friendship just happened, even though the whole time I'd be wanting to sleep with her. And just because I wanted to have sex with them, didn't mean I did not consider them friends. I just wanted to be more than platonic friends.

 

I also quickly develop feelings for women I spend time with. So I've had at least a little crush on every female friend I've ever had. That's one reason why I'm not to eager to make female friends because I know I'd develop feelings for her, and that's the last thing I need now.

 

I'm sick of liking girls.