ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Please explain why this is the case. If it's deemed wrong to abuse a husband/wife or partner, why do you all say that families hold a right to be abusive? Isn't it human nature that warmness is natural amongst those who are close? Should friends abuse each other also?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Please explain why this is the case. If it's deemed wrong to abuse a husband/wife or partner, why do you all say that families hold a right to be abusive? Isn't it human nature that warmness is natural amongst those who are close? Should friends abuse each other also? 1)Where is it stated that families have the right to abuse each other? 2) No it isn't human nature that warmness is natural, it is a choice. 3)Depending on your definition, the legal definition of the jurisdiction any said act occurs and/or whether or not the people involved view it as abuse and report it as such, then it is possible that abuse occurs all the time among friends or not at all.
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 1)Where is it stated that families have the right to abuse each other? lol.. You all state it continually, and continously allude to it. 2) No it isn't human nature that warmness is natural, it is a choice. To people close, how can it not be? Who despises a wife, girlfriend, friend, sibling, parent, etc? Ordinarily is it deemed normal/usual to do so?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 lol.. You all state it continually, and continously allude to it. To people close, how can it not be? Who despises a wife, girlfriend, friend, sibling, parent, etc? Ordinarily is it deemed normal/usual to do so? It "cannot be" because there was never anything warm to begin with...just "user friendly".
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 It "cannot be" because there was never anything warm to begin with...just "user friendly". But persons are warm to those close to them. Can you state why not, or why this is not the case in human affairs?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 But persons are warm to those close to them. Can you state why not, or why this is not the case in human affairs? Can you??????
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 Can you?????? You made the contrary assertion. Can you not substantiate it? I would say that yes, in most species kinship bonds are natural. All of you are stating that this is not so, and that families hold a right to be abusive. It is commonly said in most societies that people should honour their families. it is not just an arbitrary social construct, as said it is common to most if not all forms of life. My point regarding friendship/marriage is that nobody would say that mistreating friends is normal. If abuse of friends is shunned upon, why are you condoning abuse in familial contexts?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 You made the contrary assertion. Can you not substantiate it? I would say that yes, in most species kinship bonds are natural. All of you are stating that this is not so, and that families hold a right to be abusive. It is commonly said in most societies that people should honour their families. it is not just an arbitrary social construct, as said it is common to most if not all forms of life. My point regarding friendship/marriage is that nobody would say that mistreating friends is normal. If abuse of friends is shunned upon, why are you condoning abuse in familial contexts? And all you are doing is stating families should not hold the right to abuse, if in fact their acts are deemed abusive by those who are(or not)perpetrating the abuse and by those who are(or not)receiving the abuse. And it is deemed the governing legal system as abusive(or not) and reported by the person on the end of the abuse( or not) as feeling as if they have been abused. Who said abuse (if in fact is is considered abuse by those who may or may not be abused)of friends is shunned? And I have not now or never condoned abuse in a familial context or non familial context.
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 lol... Is English your first language?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 lol... Is English your first language? Depends on whose definition of first langauge we are going to use.
Taramere Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Please explain why this is the case. If it's deemed wrong to abuse a husband/wife or partner, why do you all say that families hold a right to be abusive? Isn't it human nature that warmness is natural amongst those who are close? Should friends abuse each other also? "Abuse" is not the politically correct term. I believe "tough love" is what you should call it. This preserves and promotes healthy amounts of self esteem in those who employ physical violence and yelling as a means of dispute resolution with their loved ones.
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 the fact remains that all of you legitimise familial abuse, and say "get over it" or "be happy one has has a family!" If you are saying that there is no familial closeness is not inherent, which is not evident in many species, nor should be expected, then fine. I personally think it's a "I got it hard, so you can too!" mentality, I could be wrong.
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 the fact remains that all of you legitimise familial abuse, and say "get over it" or "be happy one has has a family!" If you are saying that there is no familial closeness is not inherent, which is not evident in many species, nor should be expected, then fine. I personally think it's a "I got it hard, so you can too!" mentality, I could be wrong. Yes you could be. We all could be.
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 A non-sequitur if I ever read one.
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 A non-sequitur if I ever read one. Indeed.....
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 "Abuse" is not the politically correct term. I believe "tough love" is what you should call it. This preserves and promotes healthy amounts of self esteem in those who employ physical violence and yelling as a means of dispute resolution with their loved ones. Are you people going to answer my question, or just present illogical and ill-defined concepts?
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Are you people going to answer my question, or just present illogical and ill-defined concepts? We did answer your question. It is not our fault if you continue to read in an illogical and ill defined way.
Author ilikesunita Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 We did answer your question. It is not our fault if you continue to read in an illogical and ill defined way. No, you did not. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t285449/ this thread is one example.
bentnotbroken Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 No, you did not. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t285449/ Sure I did, you just didn't like my answer. That's fine. It is one of the things I love about LS. Differing opinions explained exactly the way the poster sees fit.
carhill Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 OP, abuse is rarely if ever right or acceptable. People choose both how they prosecute it as well as how they react to it. If your life is in danger, seek help or use deadly force to protect yourself. Otherwise, walk away and disconnect those people, whoever they are. Family can be just as easily disconnected as anyone else. All you have to do is choose it. BTDT. FTR, I grew up in a loving nuclear family. No abuse. Perhaps that's why I have such an easy time disconnecting people who are obviously abusive but, and this is an important but, I also did not have a proper framework for understanding what levels of abuse are, having never made those emotional memories during socialization. Abuse was largely alien (I did observe it in other families), so I was ignorant. Bullying I understood, but those were strangers who never demonstrated love or care. That was easy. Abuse from loved ones, far less so. Hope you find a healthy path. FTR, I never considered the few spankings I received as a child to be 'abusive'. I was a handful. My parents had the patience of Job and were excellent examples of good parenting.
Taramere Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Are you people going to answer my question, or just present illogical and ill-defined concepts? No. You'll have to figure it out for yourself I'm afraid. Consider how a person with normal knowledge would answer the question.
carhill Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Oh, hey Jean-Luc, how's it going? Has that abuse situation resolved?
Author ilikesunita Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 OP, abuse is rarely if ever right or acceptable. People choose both how they prosecute it as well as how they react to it. If your life is in danger, seek help or use deadly force to protect yourself. Otherwise, walk away and disconnect those people, whoever they are. Family can be just as easily disconnected as anyone else. All you have to do is choose it. BTDT. FTR, I grew up in a loving nuclear family. No abuse. Perhaps that's why I have such an easy time disconnecting people who are obviously abusive but, and this is an important but, I also did not have a proper framework for understanding what levels of abuse are, having never made those emotional memories during socialization. Abuse was largely alien (I did observe it in other families), so I was ignorant. Bullying I understood, but those were strangers who never demonstrated love or care. That was easy. Abuse from loved ones, far less so. Hope you find a healthy path. FTR, I never considered the few spankings I received as a child to be 'abusive'. I was a handful. My parents had the patience of Job and were excellent examples of good parenting. No, all of you legitimise familial abuse. You never say that it is unwarranted, and if it is warranted, then you never state why. Hence my initial point as to that persons don't often view/treat negatively those close to them, and kinship bonds are the closest of all. If this is wrong, then I'm willing to be enlightened.
Trimmer Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) lol.. You all state it continually, and continously allude to it. No you are wrong. Your premise that we "all" think that families have the right to abuse each other is wrong, and you have done nothing to substantiate it. I challenge you to show examples of that, and until you provide that proof, there is no valid question to be answered. lol... Is English your first language? I wonder if it's yours, because in the one thread you cited as an example, I didn't see any support for a family's right to abuse a member. Can you please show specific quotes of what you are asserting? You'll need to provide a broad range of examples, as you need to support your assertion that we "all state it continually, and continuously allude to it." If it's that continual, you should have no problem supporting your assertion. If you cannot, then your question is invalid, as it is based upon your assertion. Are you people going to answer my question, or just present illogical and ill-defined concepts? I'll be quite logical with you. And logic requires that when you say "I assert A, and therefore I have a question B, based upon that assertion..." that if you cannot prove A, then B is a meaningless question. ...all of you legitimise familial abuse. This is assertion "A". Please substantiate it; If it's as pervasive and continuous as you say, that should present little difficulty. Until then, though, your question is meaningless. Edited July 30, 2011 by Trimmer
Eve Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Please explain why this is the case. If it's deemed wrong to abuse a husband/wife or partner, why do you all say that families hold a right to be abusive? Isn't it human nature that warmness is natural amongst those who are close? Should friends abuse each other also? It does irk me how commonly the word 'abuse' is banded about these days. Methinks the biggest hurdle is getting people to see that they are abusive. In its full detail this is a criminal act, not something to be placed in the same context of being a bit of a bitch or something that passes quickly. I find it disrespectful to those who are survivors of abuse in its proper context to use the term loosely. Seriously now. Take care, Eve x
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