I love you but I don't like you

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi & Lifesontheup: H coming back, on my terms, is wishful thinking at this point.

 

Trippi: it's too bad the Divorce Coach didn't refund your $250 after H moved out the 2nd time. But seriously, when your H moved out again because you didn't do enough changing as he put it, were you interested in him returning to the house again, or, did you realize at that point it's over?

 

On a slightly different note, H's coming over to our house for dinner tonight. He called this afternoon, asked what I'd like to do, and I tried putting the ball in his court since one of my many flaws is that I'm too controlling & I used to "plan" where we'd go on vacations and what we'd do on the weekends - which is not actually correct and when H raised that as a flaw, I corrected him and explained that we always discussed vacations and when we agreed on what to do, I researched it, update him, have him look at the hotels I'd narrowed down, etc. and THEN book it. As for weekends, I'd always ask him what he'd like to do and THEN I'd plan accordingly).

 

He didn't have any ideas and put the question back to me (contrary to 2sunny's previous post about the man planning the date), so, I asked if he'd like to come by for dinner. In keeping with the saying that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, I'm making some things that he likes. This reminds me of something I read on another thread, don't recall the name of it or who posted it but it was LOL funny -a man said something like " ... W cheats and I'm the one doing everything I can to win her back ... I should serve champagne on the doormat ..."

 

I'm thinking that this is a positive step since a few weeks back he said it's too difficult to come to the house when I asked him over for dinner.

 

I must say that conversation's a bit awkward with H since I'm not to discuss the OW. He's leaving on a 2 week trip later this week which we were supposed to go on together and I don't think that's a conversation topic since PERHAPS he's feeling a bit guilty that I'm not going - or, is that wishful thinking on my part?

 

And finally, I will remain upbeat as per the 180, but, just to be clear, that's tough since, to state the obvious, H's not living at home, etc.

[andyg99]

I must say that conversation's a bit awkward with H since I'm not to discuss the OW. He's leaving on a 2 week trip later this week which we were supposed to go on together and I don't think that's a conversation topic since PERHAPS he's feeling a bit guilty that I'm not going - or, is that wishful thinking on my part?

 

And finally, I will remain upbeat as per the 180, but, just to be clear, that's tough since, to state the obvious, H's not living at home, etc.

 

you can't discuss the OW??? what other topics are taboo? I get that the fact that you love this man but do you want him back like he is NOW? Don't you think he needs to do some major changing before you even let him back in your life? ONe of those changes being treating you with RESPECT! Seems to me that if he told you he'd come back but you can never ever mention the affair you'd agree to it "to save the marriage"... can you honestly say you'd want that?

 

First thing you might want to ask him tonight is who is going on that trip with him.

[itllgetbetter]

andyg99: It wasn't my H who said not to mention OW - it was two relatives and a professional. They said not to mention OW because that might show I'm jealous/insecure/curious. I'm curious but not jealous and insecure. This is definitely a case of cheaters cheat down.

 

I absolutely don't want him back now if he wants an "open marriage".

 

H's going on the trip alone - we were supposed to stay with a relative of his for 1 week and then travel elsewhere for 1 week. A couple of weeks ago, he said that since he's travelling alone, he'll stay at his relative's place for the 2nd week as well. I was the one who changed his airline ticket to depart back home from the same city he's travelling to initially - I was the one who had to make that change since I'm the one that booked the tickets originally.

 

As for him telling me he'll come back, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

[trippi1432]

Trippi & Lifesontheup: H coming back, on my terms, is wishful thinking at this point.

 

Trippi: it's too bad the Divorce Coach didn't refund your $250 after H moved out the 2nd time. But seriously, when your H moved out again because you didn't do enough changing as he put it, were you interested in him returning to the house again, or, did you realize at that point it's over?

 

I pretty much came to the conclusion it was over when I found out he was seeing someone. That someone is the woman he married and met during the 10 days he was gone the first time he moved out. At least that is when he claimed to meet her. Fact is, she is indirectly related to the family and he really met her at her eldest son's graduation party months before. This same woman almost spilt my SIL's marriage up.

 

2.5 months into the demise of the marriage, he moved in with her and I immediately filed.

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi: Your comment re the same woman almost splitting up your SIL's M: I guess these women don't understand that what goes around comes around in that the same thing can happen to them.

 

She's a serial homewrecker. According to my aunt (the shrink), women like that have very serious emotional issues in that something happened to them when they were younger and now they have to feel they're "special" by hurting someone else (ie., the BS).

[trippi1432]

Trippi: Your comment re the same woman almost splitting up your SIL's M: I guess these women don't understand that what goes around comes around in that the same thing can happen to them.

 

She's a serial homewrecker. According to my aunt (the shrink), women like that have very serious emotional issues in that something happened to them when they were younger and now they have to feel they're "special" by hurting someone else (ie., the BS).

 

Oh I know, IGB....I have come to closure over my ex's involvement with her. His decisions are his decisions and his to live with. My first ex made his decisions and had to live with them too. Now, 20 years later, he messages me via Face Book and tells me how he misses me. However, I know he only misses the easier times in his life and not really me as his wife.

 

This is her 3rd marriage to an alcoholic, so there is a pattern of course. And the way she almost broke up my SIL's relationship is because she decided to go after her first exH when things weren't working with her second husband. My SIL was engaged to him at the time. The irony now is that both she and SIL are related by marriage. I actually find it humerous and a little screwed up. :laugh:

 

If we can't laugh at how crazy life can be...what can we laugh at?

[itllgetbetter]

H left earlier this morning.

 

A few minutes into dinner and H said he'd be interested in living in 1 of 3 different parts of the city and that all he could afford in those areas was a condo. He asked me if I'd been looking at real estate and I said I hadn't and why would is asking. Reply: "Because of this situation".

 

At this point I was feeling like the M was over.

 

Then he said he wanted for the past 5 years to live in one of 3 different parts of the city but I always nixed the idea for various reasons. I explained why I nixed the ideas and reminded him that when the issue came up last February, I said that if there's any house he'd like me to take a look at, I'd be happy to do so. Then he said that although I was on an e-mail circulation list to receive new house listings, the areas I was looking at didn't include two of the three areas he liked, which, they didn't. One thing led to another, he got chocked up and he said he "wants to feel listened to."

 

Later in the evening, he said that I told him to leave the house back in May and had the situation been reversed, he never would've done the same thing to me and thought I was being "proud" by making the honouring and cherishing comments. I explained that I made those comments because they were in our wedding vows and I'd felt for some time like he wasn't honouring and cherishing me because he was distracted by someone else. This lead to a discussion of how he's not interested in the OW.

 

He also said that he felt "very alone" in the M. I said that I was sorry for that and I wished he'd talked to me about it.

 

Amongst some of his concerns about me was that I "bugged" him about going away on weekends - which we did twice in the past year.

 

I said that although this is correct, none of the reasons he's given are a reason to break up a M.

 

At this point I was feeling as if he may come back.

 

Had breakfast this morning and I offered to take him to the airport later this week, and he agreed.

[2sunny]

H left earlier this morning.

 

A few minutes into dinner and H said he'd be interested in living in 1 of 3 different parts of the city and that all he could afford in those areas was a condo. He asked me if I'd been looking at real estate and I said I hadn't and why would is asking. Reply: "Because of this situation".

 

At this point I was feeling like the M was over.

 

Then he said he wanted for the past 5 years to live in one of 3 different parts of the city but I always nixed the idea for various reasons. I explained why I nixed the ideas and reminded him that when the issue came up last February, I said that if there's any house he'd like me to take a look at, I'd be happy to do so. Then he said that although I was on an e-mail circulation list to receive new house listings, the areas I was looking at didn't include two of the three areas he liked, which, they didn't. One thing led to another, he got chocked up and he said he "wants to feel listened to."

 

Later in the evening, he said that I told him to leave the house back in May and had the situation been reversed, he never would've done the same thing to me and thought I was being "proud" by making the honouring and cherishing comments. I explained that I made those comments because they were in our wedding vows and I'd felt for some time like he wasn't honouring and cherishing me because he was distracted by someone else. This lead to a discussion of how he's not interested in the OW.

 

He also said that he felt "very alone" in the M. I said that I was sorry for that and I wished he'd talked to me about it.

 

Amongst some of his concerns about me was that I "bugged" him about going away on weekends - which we did twice in the past year.

 

I said that although this is correct, none of the reasons he's given are a reason to break up a M.

 

At this point I was feeling as if he may come back.

 

Had breakfast this morning and I offered to take him to the airport later this week, and he agreed.

 

ya know...you being at the mercy of HIS criticism and blame is getting old. where is your boundary? where is your backbone?

 

he blames you for doing lovely things through the years... and he feels he "wants to feel listened to." tell him to go have his OW listen as he spews his BS and criticism! he has a voice - HE can use it!

 

everything he's DOING points to him wanting to operate on his own - to DO whatever HE wants to do. step away... he's just causing harm to you - as YOU are allowing him to do this to you!

 

IF he intended to make the M work - he'd being DOING everything and anything to make sure HE was being kind and considerate of YOU! but he's not - just the opposite! he's thinking only of himself!

 

sell your house - you buy what YOU want and let him buy what HE wants. he wants everything he feels YOU never allowed him to have = so step away! then he can no longer blame you for anything.

 

DO the 180! stop making it easy for him to USE you! stop cooking for him! stop "taking him to the airport!" sheez, what are you? his maid, servant, cook and chaffeur? looks like it! then on the backside he's not even nice - in fact he blames you!

 

take a vacation yourself!

 

good god girl, he's treating you worse than a doormat - and you keep begging for more! stop it!

[andyg99]

listen to sunny, there's some great advice there... it takes two to make it work, he's not working it and I'm afraid if he comes back you will accept him with no conditions...

[itllgetbetter]

2sunny & andyg99: I can't disagree with anything you've said below. As for him having "OW listen as he spews his BS and criticism" - I can assure you he wouldn't DARE do that.

 

As for a vacation, I took one last week with my immediate family and may go away again for a few days with my dad next week since I had the time booked off work for what was supposed to be (pre-separation) a trip with my H starting in a couple of days.

[2sunny]

so he doesn't invite you to go with him on the trip - but he wants to inconvenience you for a ride to the airport... tell him NO WAY!

 

stop being his solution - he can find a way all by himself... the more you make him comfortable - the less likely he is to try and consider making this work.

 

he needs to be wondering about you - and what you're up to ALOT. he won't as long as you are there every time to tell him what you're doing/ who you are with.

 

he sees you as readily available and easily manipulated - so there is no desire on his end to cater to you at all... heck, he even was supposed to take you on a date - and YOU ended up cooking for HIM! he's making no effort! stop making it easy for him to treat you like crap!

 

if and when he becomes interested - you will know it! he will chase you. in the meantime stop allowing him the privilege of understanding anything you have going on = make him wonder. don't answer personal questions.

 

he's still not been forthcoming and offered to REPAIR the damage HE caused - so quit kissing his a$$! all his time/energy and thoughts are on his OW... that's why he's not paying attention to you.

 

YOU have every right to ask HIM any questions you want - but i bet he won't answer until he intends to mend things between you two. when he intends to - he will come and beg you - answer anything - offer to court you and cherish you... and he should! until then = give NO EFFORT!

 

he's in his affair fog - and YOU can't make him come out of it... but you can collect your self respect and decency instead of continuing to hand it over to him on a silver plater... only to have him shoo you away.

 

 

research the 180 - you need all of it NOW!!! start telling him NO = NO WAY = NO HOW!

 

for your reference:

 

or those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

 

 

until ALL of his behavior changes - there's not one reason to talk to him or DO a thing for him... let him start figuring out how to do things all on his own. you are no longer his little problem solver.

[trippi1432]

Actually..I almost posted this today..with my own bolded items that she wasn't doing....but wasn't sure if she was listening....and IGB..2Sunny and I have a history..so if we agree on something..that IS saying something!!!

 

I posted the 180 and Carol's story to you on page 2...she wasn't a doormat and saved her marriage..what ARE you going to change and give up for the next 30 years to get him back..and tell me...is it more that you lost a man who gave up on you rather than find one who won't???

[itllgetbetter]

2Sunny: I generally try not to ask him personal questions because I don't know if I'll get the truth. For example, the other day he specifically said he's not interested in OW (this came up when I was trying to stand up for myself).

 

It's not that he didn't "invite" me to go on the trip. Rather, he "uninvited" me since the trip was booked prior to the separation. After the separation, he didn't want me to go with him.

 

Trippi: I read Carol's story and the 180 when you originally posted it. I remember thinking at the time I read Carol's story that she's got a lot of strength. I keep wondering if my situtation's perhaps a little different thna most since my H has depression and what attracted him to me in part initially was that he felt cared about and some of the things Carol did were rather harsh, although they didn't compare to what the H was doing.

 

The reasons I invited him for dinner are:

 

(a) He'd phoned and left 5 messages saying he'd like to see me/get together, including an "I love you";

 

(b) I thought that perhaps if he's in his home briefly, he'll come to realize, when he reflects back on the evening, that he's making a mistake;

 

© Since the OW has an eating disorder, I figure she's not cooking for him.

 

(d) He always preferred to eat at home rather than go out for meals because his mom didn't do a lot of cooking when he was growing up & it was one of the ways I showed him I loved him.

 

I forgot to mention that the other day he said he may not go back to see his psychiatrist because he didn't think he needed him anymore (he has depression). My thought on that was that he didn't like what the psychiatrist was telling him about this situation.

 

As for taking him to the airport, I offered - he didn't ask. Do not get mad at this next bit: I'll still take him since that's what I'd said I'd do. However, if he calls and says he'll take a taxi, I'll simply say "okay" rather than say something like: "are you sure, it's no trouble, etc."

 

I'm thinking logistically about this too: since OW lives in his building, isn't he the least bit concerned that perhaps I might bump into her when I go there to get him?

[2sunny]

you aren't listening at all...

 

my wish for you is that you will start being more concerned about YOUR well being/happiness - instead of it being all about HIM!

 

i'd call and tell him to get his own ride to the airport! THAT is what a woman would do IF she were respecting herself... but you're not - not at all. YOU hand him ALL the power at every turn... meanwhile he stabs you in the back and you just keep asking for more.

[itllgetbetter]

2sunny: Or, more accurately, he stabs me in the heart.

[itllgetbetter]

you aren't listening at all...

 

I'm sure this is difficult to believe based on my actions BUT I assure you I really am listening.

 

As I indicated above, I'm taking him because I offered, and he accepted. If I called H and told him to find his own way, he'd likely say something like "you're being difficult because you're not coming ..." - So, I don't want to give him the opportunity to do that.

 

I'm trying to "rise above it" and be the bigger person.

[trippi1432]

Having little or no boundaries is pointless because it opens you up to disrespect and you cannot have a healthy relationship or feel good about yourself. It’s like saying “You’re so special, I’m giving you a special pass!” Meanwhile, you’re feeling pretty unspecial.

 

Boundaries teach people how to treat you and what to expect and they represent your value system, your level of self-esteem, the type of interactions you’ll engage in, and your limits that signal when it’s time to opt out regardless of what your libido or what you believe your heart is telling you.

Baggagereclaim.com

 

Boundaries are what we implement to show ourselves self love. When we respect ourselves, we have boundaries of what behavior we will put up with from others without overstepping their boundaries. If they have healthy boundaries as well, there should not be a problem in a mutually respectful

relationship. If their boundaries are self-serving or non- existent you will know it by their behavior when you implement your boundaries of how you should be treated and they rebel against them.

 

You implemented a boundary of self respect and self love..."I should be honored and cherished as your wife and I feel as if that has not been happening lately." His reaction, you are being arrogant and unreasonable. Why, because he can and you allow him to overstep other boundaries that are just as important.

 

Yes, he is depressed, conflicted and confused...but still not a valid reason to

overstep your boundaries and blame you for things he had just as much control over. Yes, he probably wants to drop counseling because the counselor hit a nerve. That's good for him actually.

 

When I had that discussion with the divorce busting coach, the goal was to get my ex back home...granted at that time we thought it was just MLC...I was to defer any decision making, not discuss the marriage etc, not be defensive if he brought stuff up...just listen...not take blame, process. Of course the first thing he tried to do was blame his unhealthy obsessions on me...those were things that were there before I knew him...but I did not point them out nor argue...I just listened and he felt listened to. My only response to him was that I was sorry he felt that way. HE felt that way....he is entitled to his feelings even if his perspective is not in agreement with yours.

 

Stop explaining when he throws stuff out there...it just makes you look defensive....You can listen to what he says and accept his feedback without personalizing it. Yes, it is personal but you already know that it takes two people to play the role of the things he says...he will ultimately see his role in this but not by you reacting to it by defending your side. It goes against the grain if what you feel...but the goal is to get to a common viewpoint of both of your perspectives to get to resolution without stepping on each others boundaries. Neither of you need to be a doormat.

 

Healthy boundaries, what do they look like?

 

Ability to adapt and change when it is NEEDED and APPROPRIATE

Not vacillating wildly according to what is happening around them

Able to say "no" when appropriate

Able to accept constructive criticism or feedback without personalizing it

Able to accept "no" from others without taking it personally

Able to stand up for themselves

Know how they feel, what they think and how they behave

Take responsibility for meeting their own needs

Take responsibility for their emotions, their ideas and their behavior

Edited August 23, 2011 by trippi1432

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi: Thanks for the info on boundaries.

 

This afternoon I was thinking of the expression "you teach others how to treat you". I've taught him to treat me REALLY poorly.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that when were together on Sunday he said "you weren't a good wife". I said "Really" after I gulped and blinked slowly. "I'm sorry you feel that way" would've been a better answer.

 

You'll recall that elsewhere on this thread I've noted that he did all of 2-3 minutes of household chores a day - I'd list everything I used to do but that'd be too time consuming to itemize. Which lead to him asking: "Do you think you were a good wife?" To which I said (admitting this next bit is REALLY humbling): "I'm sorry I didn't love you the way you needed to be loved".

 

I've recommended elsewhere on this thread the book "The Five Love Languages" and essentially I was demonstrating loving him by performing "acts of service" or, as 2sunny'd put it, by being the maid, servant, cook and chaffeur, etc.

 

You state above "he will ultimately see his role in this". I'm guessing that you can't answer WHEN that might happen? Is it when he eventually wakes from his affair fog?

 

I agree that the counsellor hitting a nerve is a good thing - in fact, I think it's a GREAT thing. The unfortunate part will be if he actually drops counselling since so far, the counsellor is the only one who can ask him pointed questions that demonstrate the absurdity of the situation.

 

What's MLC?

 

I picked up the book "Taming Your Outer Child" that dreamingoftigers (aka dot) recommended on another thread, so I'll start reading that shortly.

Edited August 23, 2011 by itllgetbetter
typos

[itllgetbetter]

According to my H, one of my many flaws is that I paid bills when the arrived. On Sunday, he commented that he paid various bills, including the cell phone bill (both our phones are on one account). He also said: "Paying bills is not difficult. I don't see what the big deal was about paying bills".

 

When we separated, the H said he'd take care of paying the cell phone bill (it's a business expense for him).

 

So, this afternoon I tried to use my cell phone and, lo and behold, it wouldn't work because apparently, the cell phone company does not like waiting over two months to get paid.

 

He doesn't have a land line in his apt. and uses the cell phone's alarm clock function to wake up in the mornings (TMI?). So, it doesn't look like he's going to get a wake up call in the morning.

[worldgonewrong]

 

He [...] uses the cell phone's alarm clock function to wake up in the mornings (TMI?). So, it doesn't look like he's going to get a wake up call in the morning.

 

??

That's odd. I always thought the alarm clock function on the phone was independent of the phone function, therefore not something they could cut off.

Hmm. i could be wrong.

[trippi1432]

??

That's odd. I always thought the alarm clock function on the phone was independent of the phone function, therefore not something they could cut off.

Hmm. i could be wrong.

 

No WGW...you are correct...it won't affect the alarm function...use mine for an alarm clock.

[itllgetbetter]

This was nice to hear.

 

Met a woman by chance earlier this evening (nail salon. TMI?).

 

Her H left her 3 years ago for OW. About a year after leaving, he tells her he wants to get back together and continues to do so (he'd drop the OW like a "hot potato" is the way he's put it). H also tells his kids he'd like to be back with their mom.

 

She said she spent the first year after he left her in the house, didn't go out except when necessary, only slept 4 hours/night, max/gained 30 lbs, cried a lot, spent a lot of time believing the her H's negative comments about her, mind always on him & the situation, etc.

 

She told me that there's "no way" she'd ever get back together with him as she's grown so much as a person in the time he's been gone.

 

Gave her a brief bio of my H's OW, she started laughing and said that one day he'll realize his mistake, want to come back but I'll tell him "no" because I will have moved on, to which I started laughing and said "I can't see the day where I'll tell him I won't take him back."

 

Also, I'm convinced that H's forever convinced himself of all my so called negative traits that I'll be one of the few people in the history of situations such as this whose H will NOT come back & say he's made a mistake and wants back.

 

Exchanged phone no.'s so I'm sure we'll get together in the future - and she's agreeable to meeting a guy I know for a blind date.

[itllgetbetter]

Have I mentioned previously that I'm not technologically inclined? If not, you've probably figured this out by, for example, my inability to post quotes from others correctly.

 

I don't have a blackberry or iphone and have no clue how to text (which I've been told is a necessity if I'm to start dating, which is NOT going to happen anytime soon). Apparently I was under the mistaken belief that if the cell phone's not working, neither will the alarm clock.

[trippi1432]

Trippi: Thanks for the info on boundaries.

 

This afternoon I was thinking of the expression "you teach others how to treat you". I've taught him to treat me REALLY poorly.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that when were together on Sunday he said "you weren't a good wife". I said "Really" after I gulped and blinked slowly. "I'm sorry you feel that way" would've been a better answer.

 

Perhaps...unless you believed him..which you shouldn't. Can he have complaints..yes..as should you. Yes, "I'm sorry you feel that way" would have been a good response..it makes him responsible for HIS feelings. It felt like accepting blame to me too...until the coach explained it.

 

You'll recall that elsewhere on this thread I've noted that he did all of 2-3 minutes of household chores a day - I'd list everything I used to do but that'd be too time consuming to itemize. Which lead to him asking: "Do you think you were a good wife?" To which I said (admitting this next bit is REALLY humbling): "I'm sorry I didn't love you the way you needed to be loved".

 

I'm sorry, I'm from the South..and to answer that question would call for a cast iron skillet hidden behind my back..but that's just how I roll. All kidding aside, a good answer might be "Yes, I did the best I could, I wish you could have seen me as I saw you". Again...make him own his feelings..stop taking them on yourself...each of these questions he asks of you is him looking for validation and you validating him moving away from you. I'm sorry I didn't love you the way you needed to be loved....that's "nice" for him to know..which plays right into victim mentality.

 

I've recommended elsewhere on this thread the book "The Five Love Languages" and essentially I was demonstrating loving him by performing "acts of service" or, as 2sunny'd put it, by being the maid, servant, cook and chaffeur, etc.

 

The Five Love Languages is not about you learning what you did for him...it's about what YOU need to be happy and what HE needs to be happy..you can't take that test for him..he has to. Was he fulfilling YOUR needs or were you fulfilling his and yours as well.....re-read boundaries.

 

You state above "he will ultimately see his role in this". I'm guessing that you can't answer WHEN that might happen? Is it when he eventually wakes from his affair fog?

 

My timeline and circumstances are different...but personally, six months after moving in with the OW, he finally apologized for not treating me right for 15 years..by then his decision was made and his fate was sealed...but that goes back to this:

 

This afternoon I was thinking of the expression "you teach others how to treat you". I've taught him to treat me REALLY poorly.

 

Men do not respect women who make themselves a victim. In kind...women do not respect a man who makes themselves a victim, but we do respect men who take accountability and vice versa. Stop taking blame...and stop defending. Did you really "drive" him to the arms of another woman..or was it of his own doing? Every time you validate his accusations, you are protecting him....where are your boundaries?

 

I agree that the counsellor hitting a nerve is a good thing - in fact, I think it's a GREAT thing. The unfortunate part will be if he actually drops counselling since so far, the counsellor is the only one who can ask him pointed questions that demonstrate the absurdity of the situation.

 

What's MLC?

 

Mid Life Crisis...I posted that to you a few pages back...with a link.

 

When a man leaves there are typically two factors:

 

A: They are running for something they think they missed in a long term commitment....unspent youth, they feel like they are getting old and need new excitement in their life...boredom.

B: GIGS (Grass is Greener Syndrome)..running from their own feelings, constantly looking for something better, emotionally unavailable.

 

I picked up the book "Taming Your Outer Child" that dreamingoftigers (aka dot) recommended on another thread, so I'll start reading that shortly.

 

Another one to add to your book collection: Runaway Husbands: The Abandoned Wife's Guide to Recovery and Renewal by Vikki Stark

[trippi1432]

Have I mentioned previously that I'm not technologically inclined? If not, you've probably figured this out by, for example, my inability to post quotes from others correctly.

 

I don't have a blackberry or iphone and have no clue how to text (which I've been told is a necessity if I'm to start dating, which is NOT going to happen anytime soon). Apparently I was under the mistaken belief that if the cell phone's not working, neither will the alarm clock.

 

Eh..no problem..but now you know. In the mean time, him having no phone because he didn't pay the bill while stating it's not that hard a thing to do...well, that is now on him..time to learn to stand on his own two feet, don't ya think?