Coping Log (again)

[moontiger]

I've had breakups before, but he had asked me to marry him, we had a place together, and we were going on two years. I thought for sure I'd never be back here.

 

He proposed. He wanted to get married, move in together, everything. He talked about "when" we had kids, not if. I was stupid and I got an apartment with him. He swore he'd be there forever.

 

He was in his mid 30s. He didn't have much money. He worked in a very macho profession where he worked rotating shifts and lived 1.5 hours away from me. I rarely saw him.

 

He had no degrees in art history, but got really obsessed with doing a PhD in art history. I have a PhD in art history but found it impossible to find a job in the field. After years of bouncing between low-paid temporary jobs I left the field. I took up an ordinary job that I would have been able to get with a BA. I look back on the PhD and I feel that it wasn't a good use of time. All of my friends who did PhDs felt the same way.

 

I told him if he genuinely loved art history, please just start out taking a few classes, try it out...read some books. He didn't need to set a PhD as some kind of condition for his happiness. A PhD in art history is a full time job for between six to ten years, it wasn't what he thought--something he could get by taking a couple of classes a semester while keeping his regular job. It was something that if he really began, would demand tremendous sacrifices from us both for the next decade--and there wouldn't really be any long-term benefit to us as a couple. And he already had two degrees in related fields that he wasn't using because he said he didn't like the fields.

 

When I tried to reason with him, he'd get really angry, and get the kind of light in his eyes that a crazy person gets. "If I weren't a fanatic I'd never have accomplished anything in life."

 

"But J when you were a fanatic about those other things you were 20 and single, and you could afford to spend a decade in really low-paying jobs moving around the country. Determination is fine, but when the object of your determination is jumping off a cliff..."

 

"This is pointless. It's pointless to talk to you; this conversation is pointless and we should just stop talking. I want to do a PhD and I don't care if it takes me thirty years and I'm not going to change my mind. I don't understand your problem; I'll just take a couple of classes a semester. It's not going to interfere with our marriage, it's not going to interfere with kids..."

 

"J, you don't understand what a PhD is; I didn't understand either when I started one. It's not taking classes. It is a full time job, where you become a specialist in one very very very small niche area. It isn't something you do as a hobby. If you want to kill a fly, you don't need to buy a cannon..."

 

And it was always stupid arguments like that. I hated being in the position of a discouraging wet blanket who was against education, when in fact it was at the center of my life. It's just that I knew that what he wanted to do, if he even managed to do it, would put a huge financial and emotional strain on our marriage.

 

But more than anything I needed us to make big life decisions together and to have some input, not for him to just decide things like this and tell me I was going to have to suck it up, make sacrifices, and put up with it. I was already putting up with his crazy shifts, long distance, and his personal problems that another woman would have dumped him over. That, he took for granted.

 

I needed him to be flexible, not "I must now spend the next 15 years studying art history in order to be happy."

 

For him I wasn't enough of a "nerd" because I didn't read "nerd comics" or like "nerd music"; to him "nerd culture" was a central part of his identity, whereas for me being a nerd was just about being smart and using my brain to do things at work. He repeatedly tried to get me to change jobs into something "nerdier" and to read his "nerd comics" and listen to his "nerd music." Honestly I didn't mind the comics or whatnot in the beginning, but having them crammed down my throat made me resent them.

 

I wasn't thin enough. He liked skinny chicks. He kept trying to get me to lose weight.

 

And here's the part I do understand, and I do feel sorry for him. He was lonely. He'd spent his whole life being ostracized for being a "nerd." Being a "nerd" was super-important to him. And now he was marrying someone who was even more of a nerd than him, but who turned her back on his "nerdiness" as well.

 

I didn't like talking about art history with him, partly because I was still grieving the loss of my career and partly because I didn't want to feed his fanaticism...his ego had somehow gotten wrapped up in doing a PhD. And whether or not he had an interest in art history, he certainly thought he did. He wanted someone to talk about art history with, and without that he was lonely. But ironically the more he made me feel that he loved me only for my degree, the less I wanted to share it with him.

 

He had few friends and little family, and he sought a woman who shared all of his interests and whom he could talk to about the nerd comics and the nerd music he liked. And I really didn't want to do that. I think he felt that I'd abandoned him, too.

 

He got really depressed for two weeks. He went to see a counselor. And then he broke up with me, telling me (1) I was overweight and he didn't find me attractive, (2) I didn't like his music, and (3) I didn't like art history enough.

 

Part of me feels terrible guilt. Maybe all this could have been prevented if I had just humored him a bit on the art history; if I had respected his "nerdiness" more; if I'd gone to the "nerd" concerts he wanted to go to.

 

And part of me feels so relieved it's over. I was tired of the constant feeling that he'd love me more if I was someone different. I was tired of his crazy rotating shift schedule and his fanatic idealism; being a fanatic doesn't work with marriage. You can't say "I need to climb Mt. Everest to be happy." You have to be happy with yourself first; Mt. Everest has to be the icing, and not the cake.

 

The relationship was always strained, never peaceful. But I miss him. I really do. I miss his arms around me and how until the last week of our relationship, he used to hold my hand every time we went anywhere at all. I miss feeling the rough calluses of his hands against mine. I miss his watch and how he used to leave it on 24/7. Two weeks on I find I can't even remember what it looked like. I miss going swimming with him. I miss his honesty and directness.

 

It is sickening to break our lease because I still have to be in touch with him. Except he's stopped signing e-mails "love" and calling me by a pet name. It's like talking to a different person in the same body.

 

I know life will go on, but right now I am lost in a fog and I don't see how.

 

He was the wrong man for me. So why does it hurt so much to lose him?

Edited July 31, 2011 by moontiger

[moontiger]

Miss you J. I don't miss the bad parts but I miss the good parts and the things we had in common. I miss how the corners of your mouth turned down when you smiled. I miss making you laugh, and how deep your laugh was on those rare occasions when you laughed.

 

I'll always miss you.

 

How am I going to find the courage to start again?

[moontiger]

Someday I'm going to come back to this thread and say "thank God he left. I met someone so much better."

[moontiger]

I'm remembering all the good things (and there were many).

 

I need to not forget the bad:

 

• He was mean. He was controlling. He demanded I do things that scare me and wouldn't take no for an answer.
   
  
• He got angry with me when I couldn't explain my reasons for something--things as trivial as my not wanting to get a SmartPhone or preferring to go to the gym in the evening or not wanting to have our utility bills directly withdrawn from my account. If I gave logical reasons it still wasn't enough: He'd complain I was hiding the real reason and get angry if the reasons I gave didn't satisfy him. He blamed it on me; he said I put up walls so that he had to push.
   
  
• He was pushy. He was horribly pushy. If I said no to something he'd start badgering me some more. He picked out things I didn't like or that he knew I was scared of and he tried to badger me into doing them. He thought guilt trips and "needling" were appropriate ways of getting people to do things. If I didn't do what he wanted or give him an explanation that satisfied him (very difficult) he complained that I was blowing him off.
   
  
• I was always a little nervous around him.
   
  
• He wouldn't look at me in bed, as though he found me utterly repulsive.
   
  
• He was unable to respond sexually to a woman. He implicitly blamed his sexual dysfunction on me, always commenting on my weight and how I didn't wear the type of clothes he liked. He'd tell me how hot other women were. He said he only did it to encourage me to be like them, but he did it more when he was angry about things and I knew it was to spite me and to make me feel bad about myself.
   
  
• He was petty and stingy. From Date #1, all expenses were always split 50/50; there was never any question of him treating me to dinner. He once made a list of who had spent what on whom and I came up as having spent less. He'd forgotten a $700 plane ticket I bought him. I'd actually spent more.
   
  
• He called me all the things he was himself: Aggressive, inflexible, etc.
   
  
• He was high maintenance. He demanded that we travel and he wanted to spend $10k a year on travel and classes for himself.
   
  
• He didn't keep his promises. He never showed up anywhere on time.
   
  
• He had a horrible cat, who was just like him; misanthropic and hated people. He treated the cat like his partner, and once told me he'd dump a partner over her.
   
  
• He was nice in the beginning, until he turned mean.
   
  
• He told me he felt he was settling for me.
   
  
• He had no emotion in his voice. It was flat and robotic. He never smiled and rarely laughed.
   
  
• He often had no concern for my well-being, as long as he could pursue his interests in art history and "nerd" stuff.
   
  
• He hated himself, and he took it out on me.
  

 

I need to come back to this list whenever I start to feel bad.

[ScienceGal]

I just had a lengthy response and refreshed my page by accident! grrrr..

 

In summary: the single most important thing in a relationship is effective communication. Without it, it's doomed.

 

I am curious as to why he wanted to pursue the same degree that you did? And given that you learned first hand how difficult it was to get a job in that field, you had every right to show concern. This is a big life choice not just for him, but for the relationship. His inflexibility on the subject shows that he is probably not good with joint-decisions.

 

Also, him wanting you to change your job and the jabs about your weight are NOT OK. He thinks if he changes you into what he thinks you should be, then you follow him down the path he chooses in life that he will be happy because he's gotten everything he wants. Well guess what, he won't be happy, and you'll be there at the end, only a shell of what you once were and could have been.

 

Until he can look at himself honestly and make positive changes he will never be able to be in a happy and successful relationship. This is unlikely to happen (sorry). And no one, not you or anyone else can "help" him do this. Trust me.

 

Also, I am just seeing your bulleted response below about all the bad things. You need to print that and read it whenever you are missing him.

 

He was the wrong man for you and it hurts so much because you wanted him to be the right one. Even after all the red flags along the way, you still wanted him. Loving someone, imperfections and all, and having it still fail is a terrible feeling. Realize that this pain is a reflection of your devotion and love, your emotional depth, and your character. But, this is also a pretty clear image that you were putting up with things no one should put up with in a healthy relationship. Don't ever give up, there is someone out there that will love you for you and will treat you as you should be treated.

[moontiger]

I am curious as to why he wanted to pursue the same degree that you did?

 

I think he had it as kind of a pipedream before he met me. He liked me and was interested in me initially because of my degree and profession; I was what he could have been had he taken another fork in the road--I was a professor of art history. Art history was an idealistic subject that he'd always wanted to study, and he thought of himself as a nerd. But instead it was his other life's dream to do another (non-nerdy) job, so he went and did the other job. I kept telling him that if he liked me for my job, please not to, because it wasn't me any more and I was planning to change careers and completely burned out on art history. He assured me that he didn't care about the job, he just liked me. But in the end he said he left because I didn't like art history enough.

 

He thinks if he changes you into what he thinks you should be, then you follow him down the path he chooses in life that he will be happy because he's gotten everything he wants. Well guess what, he won't be happy, and you'll be there at the end, only a shell of what you once were and could have been.

 

Thanks for that ScienceGal. I think you summed up two years in a paragraph. I asked him once what his goal in marriage was and he said "I want someone to cross things off my bucket list with me." And so often I felt like luggage, like he wanted to do his thing and he just wanted someone he could drag along behind him who would cheer him on.

 

Until he can look at himself honestly and make positive changes he will never be able to be in a happy and successful relationship. This is unlikely to happen (sorry). And no one, not you or anyone else can "help" him do this. Trust me.

 

I've thought the same. He's a very, very handsome man and in a really studly job. I'm sure he'll meet someone else quickly. I just don't think that he will be happy with her either.

 

He was the wrong man for you and it hurts so much because you wanted him to be the right one. Even after all the red flags along the way, you still wanted him. Loving someone, imperfections and all, and having it still fail is a terrible feeling. Realize that this pain is a reflection of your devotion and love, your emotional depth, and your character. But, this is also a pretty clear image that you were putting up with things no one should put up with in a healthy relationship. Don't ever give up, there is someone out there that will love you for you and will treat you as you should be treated.

 

This is a beautiful paragraph.

 

Thanks a lot for your post. I really appreciated it.

[reimeivn]

Hey you know, just want to tell you that I am here with you. Dating a nerd is really hard. They are not confident, they are lonely, they dont grow up, they controlling, they think they know everything. And no matter how much you try to get into his interests, it never gonna be good enough. Me, I even played games with him, but I was not good enough like his guy friends, so he got mad at me. That is just plainly stupid.

 

The three reason he doesnt want to be with you: (1) I was overweight and he didn't find me attractive, (2) I didn't like his music, and (3) I didn't like art history enough. ARE ALL STUPID REASONS.

 

1. he does have sexuality issues.

2. his music sucks.

3. he doesnt know what he is talking about.

 

And lastly, this one guy doesnt have a future.

 

Hey you should not be with someone like that. You should be with someone that are going to be a GREAT FATHER to your kid.

[moontiger]

Hey you know, just want to tell you that I am here with you. Dating a nerd is really hard. They are not confident, they are lonely, they dont grow up, they controlling, they think they know everything. And no matter how much you try to get into his interests, it never gonna be good enough. Me, I even played games with him, but I was not good enough like his guy friends, so he got mad at me. That is just plainly stupid.

 

Thanks hon. I'm an introvert myself so I had no idea--but you're totally right. This fellow wasn't confident, he was lonely, he was immature, he was controlling, and that's why he was socially isolated.

 

The thing was--I thought he was only that way because he didn't have anyone, and I felt bad for him. But when he had someone, things changed for a few months, and then he went right back to being lonely, and all that. First he was happy that someone loved him, and then it seems like he just went right back to his usual state--he convinced himself that he sucked, and because I loved him, I must therefore suck too.

 

The three reason he doesnt want to be with you: (1) I was overweight and he didn't find me attractive, (2) I didn't like his music, and (3) I didn't like art history enough. ARE ALL STUPID REASONS.

 

1. he does have sexuality issues.

2. his music sucks.

3. he doesnt know what he is talking about.

 

*lol* Thanks hon. I needed that laugh. I'd never break an engagement because someone didn't listen to the same music I did.

 

Hey you should not be with someone like that. You should be with someone that are going to be a GREAT FATHER to your kid.

 

*nod* I hope so. I really do. I'm 32 and I'm scared. But I still have hope.

Edited August 2, 2011 by moontiger

[moontiger]

I hate being in this forum again. I just hate it.

 

I miss him. His stepmom got in touch trying to be friendly and wanting to have dinner. I wish she'd leave me alone. I think she's trying to get us back together, or at least to leave the door open to it.

 

But I don't want to get back with her stepson. He dumped me, and he was mean to me before too.

[ScienceGal]

I was just wondering if I will know when it's time to leave this forum. I suppose once I feel better I could migrate to dating or some of the other sections. It makes me feel good to know that there are other people that care about figuring out and expressing their feelings. People that are confused like me, and hurting like me, and want to help people like me.

 

So don't hate. This site makes a sucky time a little less sucky. And it's nice to know you're not alone. Just thank the stepmom, but decline the dinner. Then don't answer any other types of contact from her.

 

You can do this. You deserve better and you'll get it. And then I want to hear about it!

[moontiger]

I was just wondering if I will know when it's time to leave this forum. I suppose once I feel better I could migrate to dating or some of the other sections. It makes me feel good to know that there are other people that care about figuring out and expressing their feelings. People that are confused like me, and hurting like me, and want to help people like me.

 

Thanks SG. I'm glad for your company--makes me feel less alone. I've worn out my friends and family crying and moping, and I don't feel like I can burden them anymore...thank goodness for LS.

 

You'll know when to move on from "Coping"...be careful not to stay too long, because after a while it can hold you back. When my ex-ex left me, after a few weeks of moping I realized my thread wasn't about him any more. And after a while, some days I sat down to write about mourning him and was too bored to write. I cried less and less, and I smiled more and more. And as the months passed my thread was less and less about my ex, and more about me, and--eventually--about the new guy (my latest ex).

 

That was when it was time to move on. I started a journal. And the ex was in the rear view mirror; he was just a smaller and smaller part of my life, not my whole life. That's how it should be, and soon, that's how it will be.

 

[moontiger]

Come home J come home come home please, please come home. I'm having a bad moment...it's late and I'm tired and I need you.

 

It's been almost three weeks and I haven't talked to you except in these terse e-mails about breaking our lease. Our fights were so stupid, over such stupid things. Please forgive me them and come home; I should have just shut up about your PhD...I shouldn't have made you feel bad for liking art history or like you were a poser. I should have gone to the roller coaster park with you and not complained. You dumped me but a part of me wonders if maybe I forced you to.

 

I miss you God how I miss you. These three weeks have been so hard...how am I going to make it the rest of my life?

 

Who is ever going to replace you?

 

Come home. Please come home. Or at least get out of my head and my heart, and let me be at peace.

Edited August 4, 2011 by moontiger

[moontiger]

You'll never tell me I'm fat and unattractive again, because you will never see me or talk to me again if I can help it.

 

You can communicate with me by e-mail when we talk at all, and we will keep it to business.

 

I don't want you in my life any more.

Edited August 5, 2011 by moontiger

[reimeivn]

oh yeah the thing about dating the nerd is that he is a very unhappy person and even though he doesnt realize it, he makes you responsible for his happiness.

 

you alone should be enough but it never is for him. my ex he got some friends just to hang out with, not even understand him or share anything to add to his life, he already think they made him so much happier and so he got mad at me and dumped me.

 

try to not read to much into this. just know that you yourself should be enough. and the good bf will always always make you feel that way.

[moontiger]

oh yeah the thing about dating the nerd is that he is a very unhappy person and even though he doesnt realize it, he makes you responsible for his happiness.

 

you alone should be enough but it never is for him. my ex he got some friends just to hang out with, not even understand him or share anything to add to his life, he already think they made him so much happier and so he got mad at me and dumped me.

 

try to not read to much into this. just know that you yourself should be enough. and the good bf will always always make you feel that way.

 

Thanks Reimeivn. You're right. "If only you were this way, I'd be happy..." it's so wrong. I wonder why he couldn't see that.

 

I miss him. Today his family is going on vacation. I helped plan it, and now it will happen without me.

[moontiger]

He was a roller coaster nut. I can't ride coasters; they scare me too much and I feel sick after. He wanted to go to a particular amusement park in a faraway rural area. He *really* wanted to go to that park. He wanted me to come along so he'd have company. He said I could wait in lines with him and then not ride the coasters...then we could maybe do something I liked at the park or he would go somewhere I liked.

 

I wasn't thrilled; given how infrequently I get to go on vacations, I'd much rather we went somewhere we *both* wanted to go, and I didn't understand why it was so important to him that he take me somewhere that he knew I wouldn't enjoy much. But anyway I said fine, that we could go late this summer.

 

When I looked, the park was an eight hour drive away. Whereas he had weeks and weeks of vacation time, I was in a new job (and still in my probationary period) and I had barely a few days. It was annoying that I would have to use up two days just in transit so we could spend one day at a park that was focused on something I couldn't even participate in. Also we were supposed to get married later this year, so I wanted to save the leave for that. I'm a city girl and an introvert, and kind of a homebody I'm afraid. I fly a lot, but I've only once been on a drive that long and it was awful--and I don't know why; I was just...nervous. He has a habit of really trying to pack too much in too little time, and then ending up entire days late. It would have worked for him, but not for me--I had to be back on the job the next day. There were other issues too. I tried to explain these things to him, but he said I was making a big deal of nothing.

 

When I found out how far it was, I asked him if we could just go to a closer park that wouldn't require two days' travel. He said no. An eight hour drive was nothing for him, and he couldn't understand why I was being so inflexible. He said that I'd made a promise, if we changed the destination or date he would feel steamrolled. This trip was a "barometer" for him. He needed to know that we weren't just doing things I wanted to do, all the time. (Except we weren't. We really weren't. If I suggested a day trip or something it was always with his interests and comfort in mind, and if he said he wasn't interested, I dropped it.) He said that if *I* wanted to go on a two day trip somewhere he didn't like, he'd go and he'd be happy just because he was with me, and he did not understand why I didn't feel the same way.

 

It felt an awful lot like "if you love me you will come on this trip." Even though I agreed to the trip, I resented it. And the more he pressured me the more upset I got, and he became even colder, more rigid, and less sympathetic to anything I was scared or worried about.

 

I said--truthfully--that I felt like luggage, and not like a partner. I did; I felt bullied, like he was using this trip to punish me and make me feel like I was going to do what he wanted whether I liked it or not. And I admit, maybe I complained and whined way too much.

 

Finally he blew up. He said "Fine--if you are going to hate it then just don't come."

 

I said "I'm happy to come; yes, it's terribly inconvenient, but it's fine...all I need is for you to ask me nicely, in a way that makes me feel that you care about me. If you'd just say 'I love you, and I'm so looking forward to having your company, and I'll be so happy if you come. But you don't have to if it will be a hardship for you...' Please--just show some softness, J, and I'll go to the ends of the Earth for you."

 

He just said again "it's fine if you don't come. Really." And I could feel that something had broken, and although it took him another month to dump me, that was the moment the relationship was over in his mind. There were other issues too, it wasn't just this--but this issue was symbolic of everything that was wrong with our relationship.

 

So he's on that trip today, with his family.

 

Meanwhile my cousin has made the reverse eight hour drive and is visiting me for the weekend. And I feel sick with regret. My ex was right. Maybe an eight hour trip and a couple of days off really *wasn't* that big a deal. Other people do it. Maybe if I were a good partner I would have done it happily.

 

What if I'd just gone? Maybe I really was an inflexible, selfish, rigid person, and I didn't care about his feelings and the things that mattered to him. He dumped me, but maybe I forced him to. I don't understand why molehills like this turned into mountains. A trip to an amusement park is supposed to be about having *fun*. He took everything so seriously...

 

I miss him. I didn't want to go on that trip when I was with him, but now I wish I were there.

 

A part of me wants to call him up and tell him "J, I was so wrong. Please forgive me. I should have cared more about you and your interests. We are both in our 30's; we should both have just acted like grownups and not like three year olds. I miss you so very much."

 

I do miss him.

 

He was wrong for me, and always tried to push me into things and change me, and mold me into someone I wasn't. I don't miss that part of him. A big part of me feels like I dodged a bullet; he was controlling and cold and angry sometimes. But I miss his total devotion and his total frankness and his sweet smile and the way he used to hold my hand. I feel sick thinking that if only I had been a little more flexible...

 

I hope he is having a good time on his coasters today. I am closing my eyes and seeing him happy and free, in a way that he never was with me.

Edited August 6, 2011 by moontiger

[reimeivn]

what can i say, he is very immature.

[moontiger]

what can i say, he is very immature.

 

*hug* Thanks. I wish I could stop blaming myself, and thinking I was immature too.

 

Maybe I didn't care about him enough. Maybe I didn't accommodate him enough. I'll never know what the reality was. Was he a jerk, or was I too stubborn.

 

I think it was a bit of both.

[moontiger]

It's been three weeks and two days. I miss you J. Less and less, but I miss you still.

[moontiger]

I'm not dating right now. It'll be a while. But I hate dating. I hate all the skeevy creeps out there. I hate all the married guys.

 

I miss my ex, who whatever else he was was sweet and genuine and sincere and respected my values.

 

I feel like so much of the failure of our relationship was my fault. I wonder if any relationship I touch will turn to dust. He wasn't perfect, but I was happier with him than out here alone and uncertain again.

 

I hope I'm not too old to meet someone.

 

I just want to curl up in a ball for a year, and not face the world.

[moontiger]

I worked out today. I worked out because I love myself and I love my body. I'm going to go see the doctor for a routine checkup this Friday because I love myself. I'm going to lose weight because I love myself.

 

I love myself and I love my body.

 

I am worth loving. I deserve love. I deserve to be treated well in a relationship.

 

I will seek harmony in my relationships.

 

I will attract only loving people into my life, because they are a mirror of who I am.

[moontiger]

Someone once told me a breakup flays you open. And when you are lying there with your heart and soul cut open is a good time for you to do some work on yourself.

 

So...

 

Things I like about myself

 

-My loyalty

-My devotion

-My compassion and empathy

-My eyes

-My curves

 

Things I would like to change

 

-I would like to be less shy and more assertive and self-confident

-I would like to think more highly of myself

-I would like to lose weight

-I would like to improve my dress and physical appearance

-I would like to be less anxious

-I would like to improve my relationships with men

-I would like to choose better partners

[moontiger]

Don't waste time on the ex.

Don't waste time on the ex.

Don't waste time on the ex.

[moontiger]

From this web page:

 

I am surrounded by love.

 

I love and accept myself exactly as I am.

 

I know that I deserve love and I accept it now.

 

I am a loving, beautiful creative person and this is reflected in my relationships with others.

 

Loving myself unconditionally brings healing and an abundance of love into my life.

 

The love I give out returns to me multiplied.

 

Love flows through my body, shines in my face and radiates out from me in all directions.

[moontiger]

I wasn't a perfect partner. But nobody is perfect. He wasn't, either.

 

If we had been right for each other, 20 lbs and the music I listened to would not have been an issue.

 

He was on a quest. May he find what he was looking for. It wasn't me. It's OK. Relationships end.