Infidelity and addiction

[no expectations]

This subject might be worn out...sorry if it is. I have been in IC for some time and learning a lot about why I'm drawn to the relationships I'm drawn to. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I am drawn to men in addiction. Most commonly, alcohol addiction. These have been high functioning individuals but I'm learning that I'm very attracted to very broken men like my very broken dad. I realize this is pretty typical to repeat such a pattern. I'm working on it, but its slow going. I am an xOW and my xMM was/is an active alcoholic.

 

My question is this...does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc? If you are on the restoration side of the relationship, did continued addiction or sobriety play a role in the healing process? I would love to hear people's experience in this area. Thanks for reading.

[chalkfarm]

No. But my father was unreachable and unavailable. Obviously, the affair was an extension of that relationship. I think XMM was living out his relationship with his mother by wanting to "take care of" and save me.

 

Just curious, how are you "working on it" in IC? I often ask my shrink how I am to go about fixing me. He tells me to just keep showing up and talking...... sooooo frustrating!

[OWoman]

There is alcoholism in my family of origin (mother and brother). As a result I developed a need for complete control in my Rs, to minimise the impact of chaos or unpredictability on my life. I needed to be in full control of what happened, and when it happened, and how it happened, at all times. I had everything neatly partitioned into separate compartments, which would each receive my full attention in turn, but only in turn. Which was why Rs with MMs suited me so well.

 

Now that my circumstances have changed, I am able to release - and even share - some of that control, and am now happily M.

[Kismetly]

This subject might be worn out...sorry if it is. I have been in IC for some time and learning a lot about why I'm drawn to the relationships I'm drawn to. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I am drawn to men in addiction. Most commonly, alcohol addiction. These have been high functioning individuals but I'm learning that I'm very attracted to very broken men like my very broken dad. I realize this is pretty typical to repeat such a pattern. I'm working on it, but its slow going. I am an xOW and my xMM was/is an active alcoholic.

 

My question is this...does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc? If you are on the restoration side of the relationship, did continued addiction or sobriety play a role in the healing process? I would love to hear people's experience in this area. Thanks for reading.

 

OMG ... I don't know if it's been done to death ... but it's certainly a revelation I've been dealing with over the past few weeks with the help of my therapist.

 

What I can see is that I'm just repeating the patterns that I saw my mum play out with my verbally abusive, alcoholic, high performing, self loathing, father. I'm 41 years old and it's still difficult for me to admit that his behaviour was abusive.

 

Isn't that how all fathers are? Don't all fathers starve their daughters from 10 years old so they can be skinny (under expensive Dr supervision - so it must have been good for me? Don't all fathers send their daughter to a children's home when they are 13 because they smoke and won't go to church? Don't' all fathers refuse to have their 17 year old daughter come home after she's attempted suicide because "she has to learn her lesson"?? I still fight the idea that he was doing it "for my own good".

 

As my therapist points out it's not surprising that I'm repeating the pattern of finding unavailable, controlling men and screaming out for their validation in order to make me feel worthwhile.

 

I'm frustrated at the lack of resources to deal with it too. OK - so now I know why I got into this ridiculous, painful situation ... how do I get better?

[Spark1111]

How we are loved (or not) in childhood determines how we attache (or not) in adult relationships.

 

It is familiar and what we learned first-hand at our parent's knees.

 

Realizing it and re-living a painful past is often the first step..

 

Realizing it as it is happening now, in adulthood, is much harder, but it can be done!

 

When you begin to love and treasure yourself more is when it will become easier to recognize the manipulators, the users, and those who do not respect us enough.

 

Often, we try to save our loved ones from their addictions. Big mistake.

[Kismetly]

My question is this...does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc? If you are on the restoration side of the relationship, did continued addiction or sobriety play a role in the healing process? I would love to hear people's experience in this area. Thanks for reading.

 

 

No expectations - I was thinking about the second part of your question... my xh was an alcoholic and when I was with him I was too. We drank every day, and sometimes we drank a lot. We were both very functional, both in professional roles, gorgeous home, looked great on the outside ... on the inside there was a lot of wine being consumed (some mornings I'd throw out 4 or 5 bottles and there had only been two of us drinking them "over dinner") and a lot of personal pain being avoided rather than dealt with.

 

I drank for another year after we separated, but I stopped - and I now drink very occasionally - like less than 1 x month at a special event. Rarely do I get drunk.

 

What I realised is that life as an alcoholic is one without boundaries or sensible decisions about your life. It's hard to have the head space to make good decisions when you are thinking about/looking forward to making it to 5pm and your first drink. And lets face it, you're not real fresh in the morning after knocking off a couple of bottles of wine.

 

Your choices become very limited. You don't go to things where you can't drink. You don't go out much, because it's a drama to get home when you're too drunk to drive. You hang out with people who drink and don't mix much with sober people. You make your decisions based on what/where it's easiest to drink.

 

Being an addict takes up a lot of headspace. Your addiction is never far from your thoughts ... and it's your priority. Difficult to make space for thinking how anyone else is feeling/needing when you're that addled in the brain.

 

The thing about loving an alcoholic ... is that they are not available to love you back ... they love their alcohol much more than they love themselves or anyone in their life. That's just the sad truth of it.

[Kismetly]

 

When you begin to love and treasure yourself more is when it will become easier to recognize the manipulators, the users, and those who do not respect us enough.

 

 

Spark ... you know ... I've been listening to this line since I was 12 years old, and I'm a smart woman ... but I don't get it.

 

How do you love and treasure yourself? I'm not being obtuse - I simply don't seem able to do it, and my inability to do this simple thing is f'ing up my life.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I had a dream job and a dream lover and a dream life - it was indulgent, it was luxurious, it was exciting ... but ultimately it's all fake and an illusion.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I moved back to be closer to my family and old friends, so I could "concentrate on myself", do things I love to do with the support of people who love me .... but I'm lost and lonely and allow my sometimes mM to continue to manipulate me - because his validation is better than nothing ... isn't it?

 

I'm trying, I really am ... but I just don't seem to be able to do it.

 

I've just made a reservation to go O/S with a girlfriend in a month ... not a big deal in itself - but it is using time I would have made available for on/off MM - and I'm not going to. He's pissed, but he also still owns a house with his partner ...

 

sorry for the threadjack ... guess this is pushing my buttons at the moment ...

[bentnotbroken]

Spark ... you know ... I've been listening to this line since I was 12 years old, and I'm a smart woman ... but I don't get it.

 

How do you love and treasure yourself? I'm not being obtuse - I simply don't seem able to do it, and my inability to do this simple thing is f'ing up my life.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I had a dream job and a dream lover and a dream life - it was indulgent, it was luxurious, it was exciting ... but ultimately it's all fake and an illusion.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I moved back to be closer to my family and old friends, so I could "concentrate on myself", do things I love to do with the support of people who love me .... but I'm lost and lonely and allow my sometimes mM to continue to manipulate me - because his validation is better than nothing ... isn't it?

 

I'm trying, I really am ... but I just don't seem to be able to do it.

 

I've just made a reservation to go O/S with a girlfriend in a month ... not a big deal in itself - but it is using time I would have made available for on/off MM - and I'm not going to. He's pissed, but he also still owns a house with his partner ...

 

sorry for the threadjack ... guess this is pushing my buttons at the moment ...

 

 

Everything you named were things that are located outside of yourself. Love for oneself would need to originate from within. Things break, become obsolete or pass in to obscurity. Self love is ever growing, ever changing and without pain. If all validations come from outside of oneself, then one will never be fully valid. I am me when the sun comes up, when the sun goes down. I am me in spite of the outside forces that try to break me down. I am me when no one is there but me. I am bentnotbroken.

[wheelwright]

Everything you named were things that are located outside of yourself. Love for oneself would need to originate from within. Things break, become obsolete or pass in to obscurity. Self love is ever growing, ever changing and without pain. If all validations come from outside of oneself, then one will never be fully valid. I am me when the sun comes up, when the sun goes down. I am me in spite of the outside forces that try to break me down. I am me when no one is there but me. I am bentnotbroken.

 

Great post BNB.

[Spark1111]

Everything you named were things that are located outside of yourself. Love for oneself would need to originate from within. Things break, become obsolete or pass in to obscurity. Self love is ever growing, ever changing and without pain. If all validations come from outside of oneself, then one will never be fully valid. I am me when the sun comes up, when the sun goes down. I am me in spite of the outside forces that try to break me down. I am me when no one is there but me. I am bentnotbroken.

 

Beautiful Bent. That says it all.

 

Kismetly, some day you will wake up and it will not matter what job you have, what man loves you or doesn't love you....because you will love yourself.

 

And then, no one else, no other thing, will be able to define you.

 

You define you. And it is enough.

[MissBee]

Everything you named were things that are located outside of yourself. Love for oneself would need to originate from within. Things break, become obsolete or pass in to obscurity. Self love is ever growing, ever changing and without pain. If all validations come from outside of oneself, then one will never be fully valid. I am me when the sun comes up, when the sun goes down. I am me in spite of the outside forces that try to break me down. I am me when no one is there but me. I am bentnotbroken.

 

LOve it

[MissBee]

Beautiful Bent. That says it all.

 

Kismetly, some day you will wake up and it will not matter what job you have, what man loves you or doesn't love you....because you will love yourself.

 

And then, no one else, no other thing, will be able to define you.

 

You define you. And it is enough.

 

 

Ditto!

[Spark1111]

Spark ... you know ... I've been listening to this line since I was 12 years old, and I'm a smart woman ... but I don't get it.

 

How do you love and treasure yourself? I'm not being obtuse - I simply don't seem able to do it, and my inability to do this simple thing is f'ing up my life.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I had a dream job and a dream lover and a dream life - it was indulgent, it was luxurious, it was exciting ... but ultimately it's all fake and an illusion.

 

I felt like I was "loving and treasuring myself" when I moved back to be closer to my family and old friends, so I could "concentrate on myself", do things I love to do with the support of people who love me .... but I'm lost and lonely and allow my sometimes mM to continue to manipulate me - because his validation is better than nothing ... isn't it?

 

I'm trying, I really am ... but I just don't seem to be able to do it.

 

I've just made a reservation to go O/S with a girlfriend in a month ... not a big deal in itself - but it is using time I would have made available for on/off MM - and I'm not going to. He's pissed, but he also still owns a house with his partner ...

 

sorry for the threadjack ... guess this is pushing my buttons at the moment ...

 

Look, I've lived this life...it resides over the fence where the grass is always greener.

 

IF I have a dream job and a dream man, I will have the perfect life.

 

IF I have supportive family and old friends, my life will be a bed of roses and I will live happily ever after.

 

If I have a nice house and perfect kids, and the white picket fence, and enough money, I/we will live happily ever after.

 

I do not know why we seek so much external validation. Either it was held up to us as the goals to strive for by our family or we bought into the popluar culture bs spun in movies. Or if we APPEARED to have all these things, people would like and admire us and we would FINALLY feel loved and validated....and worthy of it all.

 

But ultimately I suspect we believe all those external factors will KEEP US SAFE FROM HARM.

 

Unfortunately, it is all an illusion. Only we can love and validate and respect ourself. No one, not a man, a friend or a family member, a job, a child, a degree, a home, can ever give us what we cannot give ourselves.

 

We have to give it to ourselves. We have to stop thinking of what we don't have, and start thinking of what we do have. We have to tell ourselves everyday that who we are and where we are in our lives is pretty darn amazing.

 

And what we have and who we date can add value and joy to our lives but should never define us.

 

Who is Kismetly? What does she value about herself? What makes her unique? What does she like and dislike? What would she like to do more of? Learn about? Study?

 

You have to make you first in the story of your life. You have to introspect you.

 

Perhaps you had a difficult childhood, married an alcoholic, developed a drinking problem, became involved with a MM.

 

Perhaps you were never allowed, or supported, or loved enough to just be Kismetly.

 

Start now. Get selfish. Learn about yourself and what makes you special.

 

People drink to drown pain. What was the source of your pain? Why couldn't you express it? Start expressing it now.

 

People have affairs to feel more alive, more intense. What is/was lacking in your life to make you feel less than? identify it and start making your life more intense, more meaningful....now.

 

No one can do this for you. Stop looking for them to do so.

 

At the end of your days you, as all of us, will die alone. Why not look back and know in your heart you lived the fullest, most authentic life you could?

 

With or without all the external trappings of success. With or without a man.

[Kismetly]

Well ... today is just another example to me that the world is full of miracles. It started with these responses (thank you Bentnotbroken and Spark ... you are both Angels sent by God) and ended with some real personal revelations and breakthroughs.

 

Thank you .... really, thank you.

[woinlove]

What a great thread!

 

Wonderful posts, bentnotbroken and Spark!

[no expectations]

No need to apologize for thread jacking...I love seeing where the thread goes and all of these posts have been so helpful to me. Loving myself is going to be the longest journey of my life but I'm determined to get there. I thank each one of you for your insight.

[Spark1111]

No need to apologize for thread jacking...I love seeing where the thread goes and all of these posts have been so helpful to me. Loving myself is going to be the longest journey of my life but I'm determined to get there. I thank each one of you for your insight.

 

Look, obviously we gravitate to the familiar unless we make conscious choices NOT to.

 

Yes, I think many engaged in an affair they suffer guilt from imbibe more frequently in whatever their substance of choice is to either: A) grow angerier, why me pitiful; or B) to strengthen their selfishness to continue.

 

Either way, it is still all about them and their unresolved feelings which often have NOTHING to do with their spouse.

 

As for therapy: I can sit and talk and tell funny stories, recount the past, spin witty tales and talk until the cows come home.

 

A good therapist will allow that UNTIL to you are really ready to go back and FEEL those feelings again.

 

You need to feel safe enough to do so and that can take a lot of time.

 

But when you are READY to FEEL and identify those feelings, and sob, and cry, and mourn what shoulda been but wasn't, is when you begin to HEAL from all that pain and sorrow.

 

Therapy, done well, is absolutely a grueling, painful, but ultimately liberating experience. And that is up to you when you can get to that point.

 

The therapist cannot do that for you.

[dreamingoftigers]

How to Love One's Self:

 

Taming Your Outer Child by Susan Anderson

[no expectations]

Look, obviously we gravitate to the familiar unless we make conscious choices NOT to.

 

Yes, I think many engaged in an affair they suffer guilt from imbibe more frequently in whatever their substance of choice is to either: A) grow angerier, why me pitiful; or B) to strengthen their selfishness to continue.

 

Either way, it is still all about them and their unresolved feelings which often have NOTHING to do with their spouse.

 

As for therapy: I can sit and talk and tell funny stories, recount the past, spin witty tales and talk until the cows come home.

 

A good therapist will allow that UNTIL to you are really ready to go back and FEEL those feelings again.

 

You need to feel safe enough to do so and that can take a lot of time.

 

But when you are READY to FEEL and identify those feelings, and sob, and cry, and mourn what shoulda been but wasn't, is when you begin to HEAL from all that pain and sorrow.

 

Therapy, done well, is absolutely a grueling, painful, but ultimately liberating experience. And that is up to you when you can get to that point.

 

The therapist cannot do that for you.

 

Thanks Spark. I've been sober for two years so I'm very familiar with feeling my feelings. You're right as well that nothing can happen in therapy or anywhere else until you are willing to surrender and do the work. Its definitely an inside job. I'm told it took many years to get here and that it will likely take a few more to get out.

[2sunny]

This subject might be worn out...sorry if it is. I have been in IC for some time and learning a lot about why I'm drawn to the relationships I'm drawn to. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I am drawn to men in addiction. Most commonly, alcohol addiction. These have been high functioning individuals but I'm learning that I'm very attracted to very broken men like my very broken dad. I realize this is pretty typical to repeat such a pattern. I'm working on it, but its slow going. I am an xOW and my xMM was/is an active alcoholic.

 

My question is this...does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc? does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc? I would love to hear people's experience in this area. Thanks for reading.

 

alcoholism is in my genetics too... i am a recovered (for today) alcoholic.

 

your questions:

 

does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc?

 

nope - i never cheated. people with active disease drink because they have too. it really has nothing to do with anyone else - what anyone else is or isn't doing. seriously. active drinkers show selfish and self serving behaviors - that is true.

 

does your significant other, whether you are married or an OM/OW, have an alcohol problem and, if so, do you feel that is what led to their choice to enter into a relationship of secrecy/unfaithfulness, etc?

 

active drinking most likely - as it is the crux of much bad behavior when the drinking is active. hopefully the person CHANGES as they start to recover.

 

 

I would love to hear people's experience in this area. Thanks for reading.

 

i would highly recommend al- anon. you could benefit from learning about the solution... and the disease.

 

to be at the mercy of what someone else is or isn't doing - is or isn't saying - is completely backwards in my world.

 

being healthy and happy all on my own - and offering my healthy self to others with a clear boundary makes life so much more balanced - and simple!

[no expectations]

alcoholism is in my genetics too... i am a recovered (for today) alcoholic.

 

your questions:

 

 

 

nope - i never cheated. people with active disease drink because they have too. it really has nothing to do with anyone else - what anyone else is or isn't doing. seriously. active drinkers show selfish and self serving behaviors - that is true.

 

 

 

active drinking most likely - as it is the crux of much bad behavior when the drinking is active. hopefully the person CHANGES as they start to recover.

 

 

 

 

i would highly recommend al- anon. you could benefit from learning about the solution... and the disease.

 

to be at the mercy of what someone else is or isn't doing - is or isn't saying - is completely backwards in my world.

 

being healthy and happy all on my own - and offering my healthy self to others with a clear boundary makes life so much more balanced - and simple!

 

Thanks 2sunny. I'm gratefully in the solution and have been for the last two years. I am very aware that this is a disease and am learning more and more every day through AA. Still getting a grip on boundaries but thankfully there is no deadline in this journey. Looking forward to having balance and simplicity and living life on life's terms...not my own.

[MissBee]

No need to apologize for thread jacking...I love seeing where the thread goes and all of these posts have been so helpful to me. Loving myself is going to be the longest journey of my life but I'm determined to get there. I thank each one of you for your insight.

 

 

Soooooo worth it!

[MissBee]

How to Love One's Self:

 

Taming Your Outer Child by Susan Anderson

 

Thanks for this suggestion! I started reading the previews and it is thus far great and I want to read the whole thing

[2sunny]

Thanks 2sunny. I'm gratefully in the solution and have been for the last two years. I am very aware that this is a disease and am learning more and more every day through AA. Still getting a grip on boundaries but thankfully there is no deadline in this journey. Looking forward to having balance and simplicity and living life on life's terms...not my own.

 

have you had the honor and privilege to do all of your step work? have you then started doing that same step work with others?

 

if you haven't yet - i HIGHLY recommend it! getting out of myself helps me to be happier.

 

i am now happy whether i'm on my own or not... if someone is with me it is just a bonus. i do not depend upon others or things to ascertain whether or not i am happy... IF i ever get to feeling sad or sorry for myself - i was taught that i need to get busy DOING for others! that's gets ME instantly out of any pity party i may be considering.

 

my higher power understands i'm just the way i'm supposed to be... i am in acceptance of all of what life brings my way... i stay feeling recovered one day at a time. i don't avoid gatherings - many of my friends and family still drink - some drink alot. i have a sparkling water or soda while i'm at a gathering. never did like an empty hand!

 

i did all my initial step work in the first two months... our Big Book shows exactly what the best version of me looks like - by doing the steps constantly... there's never a good reason to delay. then i offer my best self to others each and every day!

 

it's awesome!

 

how much are you giving back to others now that you've been recovering?

[no expectations]

have you had the honor and privilege to do all of your step work? have you then started doing that same step work with others?

 

if you haven't yet - i HIGHLY recommend it! getting out of myself helps me to be happier.

 

i am now happy whether i'm on my own or not... if someone is with me it is just a bonus. i do not depend upon others or things to ascertain whether or not i am happy... IF i ever get to feeling sad or sorry for myself - i was taught that i need to get busy DOING for others! that's gets ME instantly out of any pity party i may be considering.

 

my higher power understands i'm just the way i'm supposed to be... i am in acceptance of all of what life brings my way... i stay feeling recovered one day at a time. i don't avoid gatherings - many of my friends and family still drink - some drink alot. i have a sparkling water or soda while i'm at a gathering. never did like an empty hand!

 

i did all my initial step work in the first two months... our Big Book shows exactly what the best version of me looks like - by doing the steps constantly... there's never a good reason to delay. then i offer my best self to others each and every day!

 

it's awesome!

 

how much are you giving back to others now that you've been recovering?

The best way for me to answer is that is, yes, I am working my program fully...and you are exactly right, being a sponsor and sponsee are crucial as well as 12th step work. You have to give the gift away to keep it. I love this program and I am forever grateful to my HP. Nice to meet a fellow friend of Bill's 2Sunny.