are all good looking women self-entitled?

[Mrlonelyone]

@irc

 

Yes and so many women are put off by the most stupid things. Some men are the same way but it's not as socially accepted for men to act out.

 

Some people are always highly offended and nothing offends some beautiful women more than being approached by a man who's not hot enough.

 

@zengirl

 

He wrote not about her beauty and his feelings. I read it as being about beautiful women having a nasty entitled attitude.

 

Yes many of them do. Enough people, even some women here, have pointed out people they know who do that. The phenomena of a woman walking about with a sour "stay away from me" look on her face all the time even has a name.

 

b1tch face.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stuck/200905/life-in-the-age-bitchface

Life in the Age of Bitchface

What do our default facial expressions reveal about us?

Published on May 1, 2009 by Anneli Rufus in Stuck

 

Those years are long gone when the only pictures you ever saw of celebrities were posed ones. In our paparazzi-riddled era, celebrities are caught off-guard constantly, captured everywhere against their will. This, along with other invasive aspects of modern life, has led to the phenomenon known in the gossip press as "bitchface," that peaky sour scowl that does not flatter most faces but lends a certain sexy menace to the most beautifully chiseled ones.

 

"Thanks to the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Kristen Stewart, the Bitchface became a bonafide red-carpet staple in 2008," ran a story at the entertainment site Zimbio, illustrated with shots of Miley Cyrus, Salma Hayek, Rihanna, Robert Pattinson and others squinting, glaring, flashing their front teeth not in smiles but in moues of unscathing disgust.

 

A humor website recently ran a spoof about Victoria "Posh Spice" Beckham, who is one of the world's most frequently cited wearers of "bitchface" along with Jessica Alba and, remarkably, little Suri Cruise. According to the faux news report, Posh's "sour facial expression is not a result of uncontrollable moodiness or snobbery as so many people believe, but is a result of a very great wind change which occurred whilst visiting New Orleans several years ago," reads the spoof, claiming that the singer was struck by strong winds during Hurricane Katrina, and that her face "stuck that way." The story concludes with: "Posh intends to trial a brand new anti-expression cream being launched on 1st June for L'Oreal."....

 

The OP Just asked why so many women go around looking like this.

http://www.zimbio.com/Bitchface/notes/2/Jennifer+Lopez+queen+Bitchface

 

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/33202314.html

In the second picture it looks like their baby is taking after mothers facial expression. It's cute when their that little.

[zengirl]

@zengirl

 

He wrote not about her beauty and his feelings. I read it as being about beautiful women having a nasty entitled attitude.

 

Right. That's about her beauty and his feelings. He feels they have that attitude, and she was pretty. That's all he said about her. Again: nothing rude she actually did in that OP. At all.

[Mrlonelyone]

He feels they have an attitude? Could it be because they objectively do have an attitude?

The service he described if true indicates that most people would say she had an attitude.

 

Facts exist, the fact is that woman had an attitude based on what we have been told. Not everything is just subjective feelings there exist objective realities.

 

1.) F=Ma

2.) E=Mc^2

3.) A woman with b1tch face who gives rude and bad customer service has a attitude.

4.) The world is round.

5.) Man landed on the moon.

etc.

[zengirl]

He feels they have an attitude? Could it be because they objectively do have an attitude?

The service he described if true indicates that most people would say she had an attitude.

 

Facts exist, the fact is that woman had an attitude based on what we have been told. Not everything is just subjective feelings there exist objective realities.

 

1.) F=Ma

2.) E=Mc^2

3.) A woman with b1tch face who gives rude and bad customer service has a attitude.

4.) The world is round.

5.) Man landed on the moon.

etc.

 

We don't know that she had bitch face or gave rude service. We know the OP later amended his non-description to include lacking eye contact. That's it. Even after all these pages, that's all we have in terms of descriptors. Every other description is about HOW the OP felt. But he also feels that way about many, many pretty girls he sees on the street! (so his OP says) So, what makes you think he's an objective opinion on this?

[Easyguy14]

Before the OP made his condescending, rude remark, though he doesn't really list what the salesgirl did wrong, except perhaps not smiling. While I was always bubbly when I sold shoes, I don't think anything beyond politeness is really a must---I was bubbly because I had the highest sales in the department and was a college student making $500-600 dollars a week less than full time. And because, for the most part, I worked in the women's shoe department where I didn't have to worry about giving off "wrong" signals. I was actually probably a bit toned down with men, though still polite and customer-service oriented.

 

Later, I went into advertising, and while I'm sure being a pretty gal helped me, it was also way more stressful than being a male account manager. One of the reasons I got out of advertising and went into education --- not the main reason but a big stress taken off my shoulders --- was that I no longer have to walk that stupid tightline of being nice but somehow shutting down sexual harassment with male clients and colleagues. Now I work with K-12 kids in a professional environment. So much better.

 

 

 

That's what I suspect too. Especially since he posted it in the DATING section.

 

 

 

I actually prefer this as well, but when I was in retail commission, I tended to try to feel out the customer. Different people (even among women or among men) prefer different things.

 

I still think the OP in this case wanted a pretty girl fawning all over him.

 

another example of illogical responses^^^^. I do appreciate the men in here that have experienced what I've gone through and knows what its like on the other side of the spectrum. when entering a store or business as a customer, you are always to be treated and valued as a customer, regardless if you think that said customer might be attracted to you, just wants to be there to look at stuff but not buy, or spending whatever they can. there should be absolutely no preferential treatment based on looks.

[zengirl]

another example of illogical responses^^^^. I do appreciate the men in here that have experienced what I've gone through and knows what its like on the other side of the spectrum. when entering a store or business as a customer, you are always to be treated and valued as a customer, regardless if you think that said customer might be attracted to you, just wants to be there to look at stuff but not buy, or spending whatever they can. there should be absolutely no preferential treatment based on looks.

 

Would you like to actually describe what the girl did? I'd still really like to see that.

[serial muse]

I'm not saying that the OP is perfect or that he didn't try to flirt with her, but I don't think he's the creep that many of the female posters on here are trying to paint him as.

 

Just to clarify: I NEVER said the OP is a creep or even acted creepily.

 

I'm just still waiting for him to describe actual rude behavior on the shoe salesperson's part. Or a sense of entitlement. Or why he assumed she's a snotty princess, like that other woman in Rite Aid and those girls on the street. Still. Waiting.

 

I mean, OldSkool - don't you find it a little suspect that he seems to encounter this in EVERY attractive salesperson or even girl/woman he sees? Suddenly, they're all self-entitled, so much so that all it takes is a non-glance to convey their snotty princessness?

 

It is illogical to make these giant leaps from "she looked serious" to "she's snotty". That is an EMOTIONAL argument that conveys only his FEELINGS.

 

At some point, perhaps, the OP could actually SAY what this person DID that WAS snotty, rude, or poor customer service. Haven't you noticed that he hasn't actually described ANYTHING concrete? And he hasn't said whether he spoke in a similar manner to the other salespeople, and how THEY behaved toward him.

 

And then, of course, the "girls don't believe me because they're illogical" total and complete logic fail. Show me some damn data already.

Edited August 2, 2011 by serial muse

[Sweetheartt]

Yup so true lol but he did say what she did but it wasnt seriously detailed, but w/e Idc. When I went to the mall again to buy this cute little shirt on sale I was getting bad vibes from girls looking at me jealous & that same guy in my neighborhood at the food court staring at me again with a angry face . Omg it is hard to be pretty these days smh.

[OldSkool]

I mean, OldSkool - don't you find it a little suspect that he seems to encounter this in EVERY attractive salesperson or even girl/woman he sees? Suddenly, they're all self-entitled, so much so that all it takes is a non-glance to convey their snotty princessness?

 

It is illogical to make these giant leaps from "she looked serious" to "she's snotty". That is an EMOTIONAL argument that conveys only his FEELINGS.

 

At some point, perhaps, the OP could actually SAY what this person DID that WAS snotty, rude, or poor customer service. Haven't you noticed that he hasn't actually described ANYTHING concrete? And he hasn't said whether he spoke in a similar manner to the other salespeople, and how THEY behaved toward him.

 

And then, of course, the "girls don't believe me because they're illogical" total and complete logic fail. Show me some damn data already.

 

No, I find it highly suspect. However that being said, I also know about the dismissive "I am too good for you" attitude that SOME attractive people, both men and women, seem to project and how that attitude has absolutely no place in the workplace, especially in the service industry. For some reason people in the service industry seem to think they should be able to choose the people they serve and if they are forced to serve someone who is beneath them, either in looks, purchasing power, etc. they treat them like dirt.

 

Try this, step onto a used car lot and tell the salesperson that you only have $1,500 to spend on a car and you absolutely will not qualify for any type of financing. Yes, that attitude of "I am too good for you" in the service industry is what I am talking about.

 

No, the OP does not specify how he felt he was given poor service, however when a woman suspects a man "creepy" with nothing to go on except her intuition, it's taken as the gospel truth. When a man suspects that a woman is being condescending to him based upon his gut feeling, it's somehow all wrong.

 

I suspect that the OP is still very young though, and hasn't become as grouchy and cynical as I am.

[delilah123]

If you can not leave your personal problems at home, then don't come to work. Better yet give your job to someone who can discharge their duties with a positive attitude.

 

I am sick and tired of employees who think that their personal issues are so important.

 

I was excellent in customer service but I was sick and tired of men who think they are entitled to be patronizing and sexually harrasing because I am a young attractive female.

 

I'm for the first time working in a workplace where I don't get hit on every day by old men or condeceded by "young professionals" (professional being the term for their employment, not their attitude). Young males who hit the gym some how seem to think they can come up with a smart arse comment and i should be impressed and flirt back and if you don't then wow you must be a bitch. Or maybe you just prefer it when people are polite?

 

Like I said I always smiled at work, it's the most important thing about customer service. But I still got other condescending comments and akwardly hit on (by married men etc, not serios i'd like to take you out to dinner... more haha guys lets hiton her and make her feel awkard sort of things). So glad I work in the arts now with mostly gay men!

[Easyguy14]

No, I find it highly suspect. However that being said, I also know about the dismissive "I am too good for you" attitude that SOME attractive people, both men and women, seem to project and how that attitude has absolutely no place in the workplace, especially in the service industry. For some reason people in the service industry seem to think they should be able to choose the people they serve and if they are forced to serve someone who is beneath them, either in looks, purchasing power, etc. they treat them like dirt.

 

Try this, step onto a used car lot and tell the salesperson that you only have $1,500 to spend on a car and you absolutely will not qualify for any type of financing. Yes, that attitude of "I am too good for you" in the service industry is what I am talking about.

 

No, the OP does not specify how he felt he was given poor service, however when a woman suspects a man "creepy" with nothing to go on except her intuition, it's taken as the gospel truth. When a man suspects that a woman is being condescending to him based upon his gut feeling, it's somehow all wrong.

 

I suspect that the OP is still very young though, and hasn't become as grouchy and cynical as I am.

 

dont find you cynical but very straightforward from probably years of your experience with different people, particularly the opposite sex. Im 30 so I am still young true, but the problem does lie in the fact that many pretty and attractive women automatically wall out a man based on her own perceptions of believing that he's only approaching them because of looks or wanting to hit on them, no matter the situation. this couldn't be further from the truth because I dont care about them. they would realize this once they spoke to me and stop assuming.

 

what happened in the shoe store among other venues was an example of what I deal with. and yes, she had no other customers so I found that to be interesting but I needed these shoes and needed a certain size and I wasn't leaving without some kind of assistance.

 

women in here are looking for concrete proof of what she said, but I don't remember the exchange except that she avoided eye contact when I tried to talk to her about sizes, ect. and turned her back on me several times as I tried to find out various info on the shoes that I was ignorant of. she chose to look around the store, acting as if she was waiting for a different customer to appear but that didn't happen.

 

the woman was rude, period. she was non-chalant and arrogant and was indifferent toward the transaction. I dont receive poor service regularly as Im astute enough to read certain people and avoid them like the plague. I was unable to do that because she was the only 1 available at the time so I took a chance and hope for the best but knew I wouldn't get it from her.

 

I always check out salespeople (men or women) before I approach based on their body language. if I read bad vibes from them I will skip them and I read bad vibes coming mostly from so-called beautiful women for the most part. when I mentioned how they act in the streets is just an example of what Im talking about to enhance my argument. if the problem was me I think I would get this treatment from all women but I dont. this issue here is reserved for specific types.

[Mrlonelyone]

@EasyGuy

 

Where you may have brough on some of her action was with telling her to smile.

 

You see easy guy I am transgendered. I live my life basically as a woman (I am attracted mostly to men but also have a bit of interest in women. My first issue here was about a woman so rather than explain everything, and deal with ignorant remarks, I choose a heteronormative name.)

 

I have been the for all apparent looks "beautiful" woman with a scowl on my face.

 

They don't do it on purpose. Women's brains* are made a little differently. Men go about poker faced, women show their emotions more readily.

 

So if I'm walking and thinking about how I'm going to pay my credit card bill next month, or how freaking hot and sticky it is, it will show on my face. If I am in a bad mood for reasons that have nothing to do with anyone around me at all, it will show on my face.

 

It is then really annoying to be told again and again...to smile.

 

So while she did have what I call bitch face, which I myself have had, she still should have been professional in dealing with you.

 

For future reference try not to cheer a woman up unless she's your GF or wife...even then most of the time just let a woman work through the feelings herself.

 

Such is the perspective being what I am gives me.

[Easyguy14]

@EasyGuy

 

Where you may have brough on some of her action was with telling her to smile.

 

You see easy guy I am transgendered. I live my life basically as a woman (I am attracted mostly to men but also have a bit of interest in women. My first issue here was about a woman so rather than explain everything, and deal with ignorant remarks, I choose a heteronormative name.)

 

I have been the for all apparent looks "beautiful" woman with a scowl on my face.

 

They don't do it on purpose. Women's brains* are made a little differently. Men go about poker faced, women show their emotions more readily.

 

So if I'm walking and thinking about how I'm going to pay my credit card bill next month, or how freaking hot and sticky it is, it will show on my face. If I am in a bad mood for reasons that have nothing to do with anyone around me at all, it will show on my face.

 

It is then really annoying to be told again and again...to smile.

 

So while she did have what I call bitch face, which I myself have had, she still should have been professional in dealing with you.

 

For future reference try not to cheer a woman up unless she's your GF or wife...even then most of the time just let a woman work through the feelings herself.

 

Such is the perspective being what I am gives me.

 

I politely ask you to point out in any of my posts where I asked this girl to smile? I really wanna see it because Im not finding it.

[Highness]

I politely ask you to point out in any of my posts where I asked this girl to smile? I really wanna see it because Im not finding it.

 

You said in your original post:

 

I politely told her its just a job and Im sure its not so bad to be looking so serious.

 

This is akin to asking her to smile - to change her facial expression so that she wasnt "looking so serious". As many other posters have said, this was rude and would have had the opposite effect to that which you intended.

[Easyguy14]

You said in your original post:

 

 

 

This is akin to asking her to smile - to change her facial expression so that she wasnt "looking so serious". As many other posters have said, this was rude and would have had the opposite effect to that which you intended.

 

dont tell me whats akin to asking someone to smile unless I actually say it ok? stop playing with semantics. let me guess, are u female?

[Highness]

dont tell me whats akin to asking someone to smile unless I actually say it ok? stop playing with semantics. let me guess, are u female?

 

Yes, and an attractive one to boot. Its not semantics - I'm simply telling you how this girl probably perceived what you said. Ive had guys say similiar things to me and its so condescending. A woman's face should not have to light up as soon as you enter the room.

[Easyguy14]

Yes, and an attractive one to boot. Its not semantics - I'm simply telling you how this girl probably perceived what you said. Ive had guys say similiar things to me and its so condescending. A woman's face should not have to light up as soon as you enter the room.

 

Im not interested in whether you're attractive. if that was expected to get a rise out of me it didn't. I already explained what happened inside of that shoe store and with that whenever I decide to go back I will surely seek someone older, friendlier, and more professional. Im all about keeping a keen eye on certain types.

[OldSkool]

Yes, and an attractive one to boot. Its not semantics - I'm simply telling you how this girl probably perceived what you said. Ive had guys say similiar things to me and its so condescending. A woman's face should not have to light up as soon as you enter the room.

 

Oh dear God!!

 

Whatever you say, your 'attractive highness' you do realize you just killed your credibility?

 

A sales woman's face had better at least show attentiveness to their job responsibilities, or her manager and I will be having a chat.

[Easyguy14]

thank you cheergirl. you're one of the few women that supported what is right against what's wrong. appreciate it.

[ScreamingTrees]

There are good ways of approaching women in the real world, and there are bad ways. Ordering a woman to smile is not a good thing. You never know what she is dealing with, and it would likely be considered an intrusion, as well as a lame approach.

 

Well, I obviously never implied that ordering someone to do ANYTHING is a good way to interact in a positive way.. My point was that regardless of gender, you need to seperate your personal life from your job if you're working in customer service or whatever. Doesn't seem like the OP was necessarily flirting with her. I guess that point's moot now since the thread's become one big hateful flame fest, having not read any of the 6 new pages of back and forth bickering that sprouted up after I last checked.

[zengirl]

No, the OP does not specify how he felt he was given poor service, however when a woman suspects a man "creepy" with nothing to go on except her intuition, it's taken as the gospel truth. When a man suspects that a woman is being condescending to him based upon his gut feeling, it's somehow all wrong.

 

If I say someone is creepy, I will usually detail why I think so. For instance, I think the OP is creepy for equating a potentially rude shopgirl (still not sure I think he's a reliable judge of this) with women who pass him on the street, because they are all beautiful, and thus all the same. I also think the OP is creepy for complaining about a shopgirl in the DATING section. Thus: I wonder what part of the interaction was the OP's fault and how the interaction really went.

 

At any rate, I'm not defending rude service. I'm simply saying that rude doesn't = won't flirt with you, and I have no idea why you'd equate it to women not looking at you and smiling on the street if you really just wanted someone to get you some shoes and be nice about it. Rude service sucks, but you know what sucks worse? Being sexually harassed by customers while you're trying to make a living----and YES, flirting with the shopgirl is sexually harassing her.

[zengirl]

I don't think the OP is lying perse (at least not at first). I simply believe it's very possible he has a skewed version of reality, FTR. And as to why? I just detailed why I believe that---those specific things he said and did.

 

uh huh. why lie? creepy to attractive people is unattractive people esp. when they gather the courage to say hello or get this ask for their phone #.

 

If someone is simply unattractive to me (much older or something would be a different story), I don't find them creepy if they approach me or ask for my number (assuming I'm not in customer service and at work). They're not creepy unless they do something creepy. It doesn't mean I won't turn the guy down---I'll tell him I'm not interested, but try to do it nicely. And he'll only become creepy if he persists when I've done so. (Or if his approach WAS creepy, like he said something overtly sexual or basically any of Barney's pick up lines from How I Met Your Mother or whatever. )

 

However, if I'm in the position of a shopgirl or a waitress or someone else who's working, I feel like I cannot address flirting and shut it down----that's what makes it creepy. The power dynamic.

[OldSkool]

However, if I'm in the position of a shopgirl or a waitress or someone else who's working, I feel like I cannot address flirting and shut it down----that's what makes it creepy. The power dynamic.

 

Like I said before, I worked at a law office in college that specialized in representing gay clientele. I have been in that situation (talk about creepy) Here is what I found actually worked.

 

"I'm very flattered, but I'm not interested, sorry."

[zengirl]

Like I said before, I worked at a law office in college that specialized in representing gay clientele. I have been in that situation (talk about creepy) Here is what I found actually worked.

 

"I'm very flattered, but I'm not interested, sorry."

 

But gay men are often direct (at least the ones I've met in workplaces like the one you describe) and these straight male creepers often aren't. I've actually used that type of line and gotten YELLED at for it. By total strangers. More than once. Did any of your gay clients ever scream at you when you used that line?

[OldSkool]

But gay men are often direct (at least the ones I've met in workplaces like the one you describe) and these straight male creepers often aren't. I've actually used that type of line and gotten YELLED at for it. By total strangers. More than once. Did any of your gay clients ever scream at you when you used that line?

 

No, but there was one that just couldn't accept the fact that I wasn't going to turn gay anytime soon

 

I dunno, sometimes I look at the world and wonder what my grandparents would have thought if they were here to see what it has become...

 

Ugh, speaking of jobs, I just placed an ad half an hour ago and I now have over 50 resumes... sigh