are all good looking women self-entitled?

[KathyM]

And then when that doesn't work because you've sent out dozens of personalized, thoughtful emails that get lost in the girl's inbox full of a few hundred messages for that week, someone'll tell that person to just go out in the real world where the girls aren't social rejects or flakes or have something fundamentally wrong with them where they can afford NOT to go online to date, or so says the advice giver.

 

You just.. can't win, can you? lol

There are good ways of approaching women in the real world, and there are bad ways. Ordering a woman to smile is not a good thing. You never know what she is dealing with, and it would likely be considered an intrusion, as well as a lame approach.

[zengirl]

It's interesting to see how this thread has progressed (or regressed depending on your pov)

 

The OP was a customer at a business establishment that was given poor customer service by a female he perceived as very attractive. The OP very clearly pointed out that the rest of the store personnel was unavailable and this girl was the only unoccupied employee in the store (which makes me wonder why she was the only one not busy...)

 

He also mentioned many other things, including an entire paragraph devoted to only average women looking at him on the street and good looking women being cold out there. And he posted it in the DATING section. Frankly, the OP itself was hardly a well-composed post with a central thesis, so it's no wonder we've discussed many topics.

 

The female responses here have been the most amusing, ranging from the automatic assumption that the OP must have been trying to flirt with the clerk

 

It's a natural assumption when you post it in the dating section and comment on how only not beautiful girls look at you on the street IMO. What makes you think those details were unimportant?

 

Quite frankly, even if the OP did approach the "attractive" clerk with a flirty attitude, so what? He is a customer looking to make a purchase and responding to a girl who makes an effort to look attractive in a way that is the nature of men. We are men, if you put it out there, we will look. If you as women don't like the attention then wrap yourself in a burkha or stay indoors otherwise you are going to get attention (some of it unwanted) from men, it's how the world works and how the human race has procreated for millenniums.

 

Flirting with anyone while they are at work is inappropriate. So, the girl didn't make herself look like a troll. . . why should she have to stay at home and not work or somehow make herself ugly to not be flirted with when she's trying to be professional?

[thatone]

i'll give you a good example that came to mind while i was typing all of that. a male friend of mine and me in a restaurant, and he throws that "you should smile more" comment at our waitress. now, he knows it's a lame trick, as you said, and i don't disagree with that. but he knew that when he said it, if she would have simply smiled and blushed he would've been disappointed.

 

without missing a beat after the smile comment she stops and says "why don't you sling dirty dishes and glasses all day and see how happy you are?" and winks as she walks away.

 

THAT was the response he was looking for.

 

to up the ante the next time we went in, i did the "shaking your ice in your glass" thing as i was eating my ice because i noticed that she gave other people rude looks when they did that to catch her attention. she kinda gave me a pass on doing that because we had talked to her before and when she came by after i did that to ask if i wanted another drink i said "no dear, don't you worry your pretty little head about me" which is also a lame trick that would infuriate most women, but she threw that right back in both of our faces, by making a comment about how she couldn't understand why i always came in there with a dirty old man instead of a lady since i was "obviously" in her overly sarcastic words, so charming and polite.

 

she's not that attractive to me and the friend is married, so there was never any intention from either of us beyond conversation. but we're both still friends with her years later and still go into that not particularly good restaurant because she works there.

 

not because she smiled when he told her to, but because she didn't and was clever about not doing it.

 

so is it a trick? yeah, it's a trick. but it's not worth getting upset over. no conversation with a stranger is worth getting upset over.

 

lighten up.

[serial muse]

my following posts said nothing about me wanting to flirt. your doing that argument all on your own and losing it quickly. Im not gonna bother here, because its clear that your gonna keep twisting what I say to meet what you believe is true, regardless of what's clearly stated. thank god men are the logical ones because we'd be extinct by now.

 

Nice try with the shaming language. Still not buying what you're selling.

 

Let's examine what you said.

 

I noticed alot of attractive girls have this self-entitled attitude about them and its unfair.

 

Apparently this "self-entitled attitude" extends to not making eye contact with you on the street. Wow. What a bunch of bxtches. I totally see where you're coming from.

 

lets talk about yesterday when I went to the shoe store. I tried to get one of the people in there to help me. I tried to get this guy to help me but he was tied up with multiple customers and there was just one person at the register so I couldn't go to use her.

 

I was left with just this young, attractive salesgirl on the floor and she was so stuck up.

 

Oh, she was? How, EXACTLY? Did she tell you not to talk to her because you're beneath her? Did she talk about how gorgeous she is? Did she stare at herself in the mirror the whole time? Not really understanding how you can determine that someone's stuck up without some more data.

 

I politely told her its just a job and Im sure its not so bad to be looking so serious.

 

Well, that was not your call to make, was it? You don't know anything about her or her life.

 

Im just saying that the self-entitled girls throw up walls after walls

 

Um. First of all, I thought we were talking about customer service? Please elaborate: What walls did she throw up, again?

 

I really have no clue what your talking about but whatever. you generalize and then assume because I wanted service in a store I want a date? Ok.

 

OK, so you're saying she didn't give you service at all? Why didn't you just SAY that she refused to serve you? I would have totally agreed with you in that case.

 

So. What, specifically, did she do to not provide you with service? Ignore your requests for help? Talk back sarcastically? Turn her back on you when you needed assistance in the shoe store? What in God's name did this woman actually DO that made you so upset?

 

never said anything on walking around with a smiley face.

 

Except telling her she's looking so serious. Which - doesn't much sound like she was being UNHELPFUL or SNOTTY. Just serious. Too bad you don't like that, but that's your problem, not hers.

 

Im just talking on showing some courtesy and being helpful and normal.

 

How was she not helpful or discourteous? She looked serious. Why is that a problem, exactly?

 

not to act like they deserve preferential treatment just for being approached under any type of circumstance.

 

You haven't said how she acted like she deserved preferential treatment either. What does looking serious have to do with expecting preferential treatment??

 

You're not doing much for your "men are logical creatures" argument.

 

the salesgirl was snotty because she acted like she didnt care if I bought the shoes or not, no eye contact, which I know is the norm in the streets, but not when dealing with people talking to you.

 

Okay. So what you're saying is that she didn't make eye contact, and you INTERPRETED that as being snotty and stuck up and not caring about whether you bought the shoes or not. Did she say that? How do you know? Why would you equate eye contact to caring whether or not you bought shoes?

 

she was just arrogant as many I notice around in the customer service industry. this seems to be a trend amongst the younger females not so much the older.

 

Again - a major leap of illogic.

 

from now on Im avoiding any woman that looks attractive or gives off the air of being such just to spare me the aggravation. I usually try to stick with dealing with men in customer service, but there's less of them.

 

Go for it. Because that's not at all an overstatement or overreaction.

 

I was out again today to get a few things at rite aid. and guess what? I avoided the young, snotty looking girl behind the register and went to the older more relaxed woman in her 50s or 60s. felt really good about getting better service this time around so I must be on to something.

 

:laugh: I'm sure she was "snotty-looking". What's that look like, exactly? How does a stranger walking into a store immediately determine that the pretty girl over by the register is snotty-looking? Ye gods.

 

Admit it, OK - you want preferential treatment from the pretty female salespeople. You don't really care how anyone else responds to you; probably doesn't ping the radar at all. Ergo, you are the entitled one.

 

when Im out I ignore the hot and fabulous looking women all the time. it gets them to do what you just said: stop and stare and wonder why you aren't admiring them or whatever.

 

1. What a giveaway. This is precisely my point - despite your dissembling, all you really want is for the pretty people to respond to you differently. And you become angry and resentful when they don't. That, again, suggests that you are self-entitled.

 

2. How would you know they're stopping and staring if you're not looking at them? This is a fantasy.

Edited August 2, 2011 by serial muse

[zengirl]

Such good play-by-play analysis from serial muse.

 

i'll give you a good example that came to mind while i was typing all of that. a male friend of mine and me in a restaurant, and he throws that "you should smile more" comment at our waitress. now, he knows it's a lame trick, as you said, and i don't disagree with that. but he knew that when he said it, if she would have simply smiled and blushed he would've been disappointed.

 

without missing a beat after the smile comment she stops and says "why don't you sling dirty dishes and glasses all day and see how happy you are?" and winks as she walks away.

 

THAT was the response he was looking for.

 

to up the ante the next time we went in, i did the "shaking your ice in your glass" thing as i was eating my ice because i noticed that she gave other people rude looks when they did that to catch her attention. she kinda gave me a pass on doing that because we had talked to her before and when she came by after i did that to ask if i wanted another drink i said "no dear, don't you worry your pretty little head about me" which is also a lame trick that would infuriate most women, but she threw that right back in both of our faces, by making a comment about how she couldn't understand why i always came in there with a dirty old man instead of a lady since i was "obviously" in her overly sarcastic words, so charming and polite.

 

she's not that attractive to me and the friend is married, so there was never any intention from either of us beyond conversation. but we're both still friends with her years later and still go into that not particularly good restaurant because she works there.

 

not because she smiled when he told her to, but because she didn't and was clever about not doing it.

 

so is it a trick? yeah, it's a trick. but it's not worth getting upset over. no conversation with a stranger is worth getting upset over.

 

lighten up.

 

So, the waitress is probably annoyed by you but tolerates the abuse for a tip and only gives it back in the way she's well trained to know men will enjoy (because she wants a tip). Yes, lovely story of how y'all harass women at work.

[Tasha49]

I can somewhat agree with the OP. Because based off of my own experience, I see and know MANY girls who act like they should be the queen of the room and everyone else is below her and they should put all their attention on her.

 

I have a friend who I go to the club with every Saturday. She is skinny, blonde, dresses revealing, and altogether very attractive. She gets so much attention it isn't even funny sometimes. However, she wasn't always attractive. When we were in high school she was much more average. She was heavier, didn't wear much makeup, and dressed average. She was always pleasant and nice. Out of high school she started hitting the gym and focusing on her looks and started to dress much more attractively. I went to Canada for a year but when I came back I definitely noticed her transformation and said she looked wonderful. But the more we started hanging out the more I noticed her change in attitude. She talked in a high valley girl pitch, started calling everyone "bay bay," or "love," or whatnot. Where before she was kind of a tomboy and never said such names. She wears a ton of pink, bling, has a billion pairs of high heels, and many oversized purses. She turned into a celebrity wannabe basically and I noticed way more men staring and the problem was, she noticed too. It totally and completely got to her head and she walks with her chin to the air and acts like a spoiled prissy girl. She treats men like dirt unless they are beyond perfect attraction wise. She has a lot of flings and is pretty stuck up now.

 

My point is... when a girl is hot and knows it, it tends to get to her head a LOT. She used to be average, but now that she gets more attention she acts like a spoiled drama queen and is way too openly honest now. She does not hold back. I think that it is really ridiculous when girls act bitchy just because they are attractive and think that being attractive lets them get away with anything else. It is a frame of mind for a lot of girls. They think they are better than a lot of other people because they get attention.

 

For me however, it is different. Like my friend, after high school I lost about 25 pounds and started dressing like a girl opposed to sporty and tomboyish. I started to care more about my looks and health. I am not big-headed about myself at all but now that I have worked out and worked harder to look nicer, I do look great and much more attractive. I get hit on every night at the club. Men stare at me all the time and I notice it now. However, my attitude has never changed from the way I was before. I am caring, sweet, relaxed and just altogether a nice and genuine person. I am even still shy. So I don't get how most women out there act so prissy just because they are attractive.

 

You see girls on MTV with all their fakeness and money. They act like no one could be better. The girls of My Super Sweet 16... my goodness don't even get me started. What a bunch of spoiled, whiny brats! Only because their daddies are rich and give them whatever they want. It will surely get to a girls head.

 

I think a lot of the times it is based on how a girl is raised and the kind of family she comes from. I came from a very relaxed family. With never a whole lot of money but just enough. I turned out pretty good in the end. I think girls that come out of rich families end up feeling like they are better than most everyone else because they had that one advantage: money.

 

I can't stand rich prissy girls and all their prettiness. It kind of takes away from the attraction, doesn't it?

[OldSkool]

Frankly, the OP itself was hardly a well-composed post with a central thesis, so it's no wonder we've discussed many topics.

 

It's a natural assumption when you post it in the dating section and comment on how only not beautiful girls look at you on the street IMO. What makes you think those details were unimportant?

 

Flirting with anyone while they are at work is inappropriate. So, the girl didn't make herself look like a troll. . . why should she have to stay at home and not work or somehow make herself ugly to not be flirted with when she's trying to be professional?

 

The central thesis as I saw it was; "do attractive people tend to act more self entitled"

 

I believe they do because society continues to reward people based more upon appearance than character. The media, the internet, even forums such as this reinforce the concept that physical attractiveness is a commodity, an asset to be used for personal gain. I can't open a magazine without some model in a bikini encouraging me to purchase some item that will make me more attractive (as a man) to an attractive female such as herself. As I stated earlier, caselaw is riddled with examples of where an attractive female got a lesser punishment than a man would have in a similar situation.

 

To rephrase the esteemed Dr. King, I dream of a world where we are judged not by the attractiveness of our bodies but the content of our character. Unfortunately I realize that that will always be a dream.

 

As to the flirting at work... Do you know that a very large percentage of married couples met through their work? I don't remember the exact number but I think it was close to 50% Did these couples just one day decide hey, let's get married for the fun of it, or did they go through the courtship process, flirting, dating, etc...

[thatone]

Such good play-by-play analysis from serial muse.

 

 

 

So, the waitress is probably annoyed by you but tolerates the abuse for a tip and only gives it back in the way she's well trained to know men will enjoy (because she wants a tip). Yes, lovely story of how y'all harass women at work.

 

 

no, she's not annoyed by us, she's the same type of personality that we are, that was the point.

 

she tells us about her boyfriend and her hobbies/interests, we tell her about ours, we talk to her and her boss about the restaurant and how things are going, etc. but there's always an exchange of rude comments in a sarcastic tone that makes the three of us laugh.

[zengirl]

no, she's not annoyed by us, she's the same type of personality that we are, that was the point.

 

she tells us about her boyfriend and her hobbies/interests, we tell her about ours, we talk to her and her boss about the restaurant and how things are going, etc. but there's always an exchange of rude comments in a sarcastic tone that makes the three of us laugh.

 

But how do you know if it's at work where she wants a tip? How do you know she hasn't just developed a thick skin from years of harassment and men like you?

 

Imagine she didn't like the treatment you guys gave her (which was not appropriate for someone who was at work). How could she avoid it without being rude to the customer? Tell me that. The power dynamic in this situation is the issue. If you make the waitress uncomfortable, she can't speak up and tell you. Lest she be thought of as "giving bad customer service." Who says that just because someone is working with the public, they deserve what some may consider abuse?

[zengirl]

As to the flirting at work... Do you know that a very large percentage of married couples met through their work? I don't remember the exact number but I think it was close to 50% Did these couples just one day decide hey, let's get married for the fun of it, or did they go through the courtship process, flirting, dating, etc...

 

My parents met at work as well, but there wasn't a power dynamic issue. One wasn't in a position where they were supposed to be "serving" the other and couldn't say, "Hey, please back off, you're making me uncomfortable" if the feeling arose. That's why I'm saying you don't go flirting with random people at THEIR workplace. (If you get a direct signal, you can wade in. But that's a normal social cue situation. Perhaps all this "snotty" girl was doing was trying not to give this guy --- who seems to be looking for it --- the signal because he's flirting with her and she's uncomfortable.) Now, if the OP had worked with and developed a rapport and friendship with a girl at his work and eventually asked her out, that'd be fine, as long as she wasn't in a position where he had power over her in the workplace. That's a whole different dynamic.

[OldSkool]

My parents met at work as well, but there wasn't a power dynamic issue. One wasn't in a position where they were supposed to be "serving" the other and couldn't say, "Hey, please back off, you're making me uncomfortable" if the feeling arose. That's why I'm saying you don't go flirting with random people at THEIR workplace. (If you get a direct signal, you can wade in. But that's a normal social cue situation. Perhaps all this "snotty" girl was doing was trying not to give this guy --- who seems to be looking for it --- the signal because he's flirting with her and she's uncomfortable.) Now, if the OP had worked with and developed a rapport and friendship with a girl at his work and eventually asked her out, that'd be fine, as long as she wasn't in a position where he had power over her in the workplace. That's a whole different dynamic.

 

I agree with the majority of this. However I feel that there is also an issue of this girl using her attractiveness as an excuse to be rude. Even if it was as you said, and she picked up a weird vibe from the OP (I've learned to respect female intuition over my many years), proper protocol would have been to 1) find someone else to assist the customer, or 2) suck it up and serve the customer. If you are too sensitive to interact with the general public in a service position, then pursue a job like data entry or programming where you only interact with a computer.

 

On an aside, when I was in college I worked at a law firm where the majority of clients were gay men. Talk about unwanted attention!!

[thatone]

But how do you know if it's at work where she wants a tip? How do you know she hasn't just developed a thick skin from years of harassment and men like you?

 

Imagine she didn't like the treatment you guys gave her (which was not appropriate for someone who was at work). How could she avoid it without being rude to the customer? Tell me that. The power dynamic in this situation is the issue. If you make the waitress uncomfortable, she can't speak up and tell you. Lest she be thought of as "giving bad customer service." Who says that just because someone is working with the public, they deserve what some may consider abuse?

 

because i found out later on that we have common entertainment interests and she has asked the both of us if we were going to certain events that came to town and if so, to meet up with her and the boyfriend for drinks in nearby bars they go to or to share a car and save on parking or other such things. she wouldn't have invited us to meet her as friends outside of work if it was just a game to get a bigger tip out of us.

 

i don't disagree that she has a thick skin from being a waitress for ~10 years. that comes with the territory. but that's not really what i'm talking about.

[fortyninethousand322]

But how do you know if it's at work where she wants a tip? How do you know she hasn't just developed a thick skin from years of harassment and men like you?

 

Imagine she didn't like the treatment you guys gave her (which was not appropriate for someone who was at work). How could she avoid it without being rude to the customer? Tell me that. The power dynamic in this situation is the issue. If you make the waitress uncomfortable, she can't speak up and tell you. Lest she be thought of as "giving bad customer service." Who says that just because someone is working with the public, they deserve what some may consider abuse?

 

At my last job there was an old man that used to come in and give me and one of my coworkers a hard time (sarcastic jokes, just general snide comments etc.). He was a regular and would come in once or twice every week.

 

At first I was kind of taken aback, but once I realized he wanted us to play along it was actually kind of fun. He was one of the customers that I miss now that I'm no longer at that job. Obviously I'm not a woman so I have no idea how it feels to have a sexual component of this but I for one didn't mind it. I didn't consider it abuse or anything, but again I'm a guy, my opinion is probably less important to the OP or anyone else I guess.

[zengirl]

I agree with the majority of this. However I feel that there is also an issue of this girl using her attractiveness as an excuse to be rude. Even if it was as you said, and she picked up a weird vibe from the OP (I've learned to respect female intuition over my many years), proper protocol would have been to 1) find someone else to assist the customer, or 2) suck it up and serve the customer. If you are too sensitive to interact with the general public in a service position, then pursue a job like data entry or programming where you only interact with a computer.

 

On an aside, when I was in college I worked at a law firm where the majority of clients were gay men. Talk about unwanted attention!!

 

I don't see any evidence that she did use her attractiveness to be rude. (FTR, I'm not saying that never happens. Just. . . the OP didn't even write in his OP any rude thing she did. And he wrote several things that made me red-flag him as probably acting off himself.)

 

In many places you can be fired for refusing to help a customer, even if you feel harassed. Depends on the state and the company, of course. But I definitely feel like people should try their best not to harass people while at work. Likely, most people selling shoes cannot GET a job programming or whatnot----what if she's in college and trying to make her way in the world? Customer service jobs are usually where we see the working poor and those trying to better themselves (college etc). I don't think we should be abusing them just because they might lose their jobs if they don't "suck it up" is all.

 

That said, it really depends on what precisely she and the OP were doing. But her only offense seems to have been low eye contact, and it's not even clear when that started. And if the OP WAS being creepy, well you're not supposed to look creepy people directly in the eye. That's a natural defense tactic. I see no evidence she refused him service or anything truly rude.

 

because i found out later on that we have common entertainment interests and she has asked the both of us if we were going to certain events that came to town and if so, to meet up with her and the boyfriend for drinks in nearby bars they go to or to share a car and save on parking or other such things. she wouldn't have invited us to meet her as friends outside of work if it was just a game to get a bigger tip out of us.

 

i don't disagree that she has a thick skin from being a waitress for ~10 years. that comes with the territory. but that's not really what i'm talking about.

 

But what if that wasn't her personality? Did you ever think of the situation where you attack someone rudely who doesn't like to be attacked but has to put up with it because she's working? Doesn't that seem at all wrong to you?

[zengirl]

At my last job there was an old man that used to come in and give me and one of my coworkers a hard time (sarcastic jokes, just general snide comments etc.). He was a regular and would come in once or twice every week.

 

At first I was kind of taken aback, but once I realized he wanted us to play along it was actually kind of fun. He was one of the customers that I miss now that I'm no longer at that job. Obviously I'm not a woman so I have no idea how it feels to have a sexual component of this but I for one didn't mind it. I didn't consider it abuse or anything, but again I'm a guy, my opinion is probably less important to the OP or anyone else I guess.

 

I don't disagree that this happens FTR. I had a gay boss who I used to be snarky with (he was snarky with me) all the time. And certainly some regular customers who I developed specific rapport with. But being flirted with. . . that's a different manner, even when it's "innocent." It really is painful when you feel like you cannot stop it without putting a sale/job/tip in jeopardy. It's mild sexual harassment, which is actually worse than major harassment because it's usually not as easy to log, report, and get rid of. Customer sexual harassment is very real.

[OldSkool]

the salesgirl was snotty because she acted like she didnt care if I bought the shoes or not, no eye contact, which I know is the norm in the streets, but not when dealing with people talking to you. she was just arrogant as many I notice around in the customer service industry. this seems to be a trend amongst the younger females not so much the older.

 

If you are in a sales position and I am your manager, you had better act like you care if the customer is a buyer. A satisfied customer will tell a couple of their friends about their experience, a dissatisfied customer will tell the whole world.

 

I tried to get one of the people in there to help me. I tried to get this guy to help me but he was tied up with multiple customers and there was just one person at the register so I couldn't go to use her. I was left with just this young, attractive salesgirl on the floor and she was so stuck up. I politely told her its just a job and Im sure its not so bad to be looking so serious. I was just trying to not get into a confrontation with her by holding back.

 

The OP details that he tried to get a male to help first, and only went to the girl as a last resort. After encountering her rudeness, he made a simple friendly comment.

 

I would have gone to the store manager...

 

I'm not saying that the OP is perfect or that he didn't try to flirt with her, but I don't think he's the creep that many of the female posters on here are trying to paint him as.

[zengirl]

If you are in a sales position and I am your manager, you had better act like you care if the customer is a buyer. A satisfied customer will tell a couple of their friends about their experience, a dissatisfied customer will tell the whole world.

 

The OP details that he tried to get a male to help first, and only went to the girl as a last resort. After encountering her rudeness, he made a simple friendly comment.

 

I would have gone to the store manager...

 

I'm not saying that the OP is perfect or that he didn't try to flirt with her, but I don't think he's the creep that many of the female posters on here are trying to paint him as.

 

Well, both of those "issues" are in his head and not descriptions of anything she actually did. Did she say, "I don't care if you buy the shoes or not." If so. . . yes, that's rude. Or did she just avoid eye contact, bring him the shoes, and not fawn all over him like he wanted.

 

And did he try a male first (really? did he? I actually wonder as to his veracity because who actively CARES; my attitude----do you have feet and hands? Great! Bring me my shoes!) because he assumes pretty women are snotty. If so, was she really snotty or was it in his head?

 

The possibilities abound. Again, I don't see why we should assume she was rude because. . .the OP didn't list a single rude thing she said or did.

[Queen Zenobia]

I don't disagree that this happens FTR. I had a gay boss who I used to be snarky with (he was snarky with me) all the time. And certainly some regular customers who I developed specific rapport with. But being flirted with. . . that's a different manner, even when it's "innocent." It really is painful when you feel like you cannot stop it without putting a sale/job/tip in jeopardy. It's mild sexual harassment, which is actually worse than major harassment because it's usually not as easy to log, report, and get rid of. Customer sexual harassment is very real.

 

And unfortunately not something that's going to go away. There's a certain subset of people who tend to do this sort of thing and they don't seem to be swayed by pleas or convincing arguments for them to stop. In fact it seems to only sway the people who had no intention on doing it in the first place. The way human interaction has developed these past 10-20 years, it's only going to get worse I fear.

[ptp]

Aww, your post made me smile.

 

I did finally e-mail that very cute guy. He did not write back, but a few days later when I was on the site, he messaged me through the chat program. First, he complimented the song of mine I had sent him. But after that nice introduction, he was a total jerk. He immediately started talking about sex, and when I said I wasn't interested, he got really rude. I told him there was no need to be a d*ck and ignored him. What a loser!

 

But back to the topic...

 

I agree with you completely that people should not be so dismissive -- and this goes for both men and women. I really don't think I am, but some of my friends are ridiculous. They will stop seeing guys or never get past the first date for some of the stupidest, most superficial reasons. It makes no sense to me, because these women seem otherwise very intelligent and thoughtful.

 

That was really my point.

 

There are guys out there worth dating who can't be always be don juan when we come up to you girls. Conversely there are women who also would make great GFs who don't have the perfect measurements. People should just be more flexible and open.

 

I am glad my post brought a smile to your face , there is a little too much negativity on this board.

Edited August 2, 2011 by ptp

[Mrlonelyone]

@Zenobia.

 

The OP asked the woman about shoes. Nothing more. She works as a sales person in a shoe store. How is that harassment?

 

He didn't grab her @$$.

He didn't ask for her number.

He tried to get help from people other than the woman with b1tch face.

He tried to defuse the tension the only way he could think of so he could get some help.

 

Repeat after me:

 

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

 

I know that contradicts many sayings women have but it's true. 90% of the time a man talking to a woman who works at a store or a waitress or stewardess etc just wants service of a non sexual nature.

[Star_Bright]

Right, then you hear on threads like these, overheard conversations through friends, etc. that women area actually ANNOYED by this? Just reinforces a guy to think twice about even striking up more than just a "Hi, how are you" with a woman.

 

IRC, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a "hi, how are you?" as an icebreaker and a way to meet a woman. It is genuine (yay). It is nice (yay). It opens the door for further conversation (yay). And it's not tacky or corny like "Smiiiiiiiiile" or "You dropped your smile." And, sadly, it's not nearly as over-used! Try it sometime. Really. You seem like a cool guy, if not a bit bitter about women... just try having a genuine, decent, normal conversation instead of using silly tactics that can come across as annoying.

 

Side-note: How is saying "Smiiiiiiiiiiiiile" such a good ice-breaker, anyway?? What's the girl gonna say... "I'm not smiling because I'm really bored with work?" "I'm not smiling because my dog died today?"... Maybe she was just daydreaming about a book she was reading and nothing's wrong. Or maybe something is really, really wrong and she doesn't want to talk about it with a stranger, which is her right and doesn't mean she's a stuck-up snot! Anyway, whatever's on her mind, she can talk about it with you, if she wants to, a lot more easily if you just ask her how she is, not say something potentially off-putting.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Star_Bright

[Queen Zenobia]

@Zenobia.

 

The OP asked the woman about shoes. Nothing more. She works as a sales person in a shoe store. How is that harassment?

 

He didn't grab her @$$.

He didn't ask for her number.

He tried to get help from people other than the woman with b1tch face.

He tried to defuse the tension the only way he could think of so he could get some help.

 

Repeat after me:

 

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

 

I know that contradicts many sayings women have but it's true. 90% of the time a man talking to a woman who works at a store or a waitress or stewardess etc just wants service of a non sexual nature.

 

I wrote earlier in this thread that I think there's a general problem with customer service in shoe stores overall. My comment on this page was in regard to men purposely flirting with a waitress or salesperson taking advantage of their helplessness to avoid the situation.

 

I don't know which category the OP was in: whether he was just looking for customer service or seeking to flirt with the help. What I do know is that he posted this in the dating section so he should not be surprised how this thread turned out.

[zengirl]

@Zenobia.

 

The OP asked the woman about shoes. Nothing more. She works as a sales person in a shoe store. How is that harassment?

 

He didn't grab her @$$.

He didn't ask for her number.

He tried to get help from people other than the woman with b1tch face.

He tried to defuse the tension the only way he could think of so he could get some help.

 

Repeat after me:

 

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

Men aren't always looking for sex.

 

I know that contradicts many sayings women have but it's true. 90% of the time a man talking to a woman who works at a store or a waitress or stewardess etc just wants service of a non sexual nature.

 

I wrote earlier in this thread that I think there's a general problem with customer service in shoe stores overall. My comment on this page was in regard to men purposely flirting with a waitress or salesperson taking advantage of their helplessness to avoid the situation.

 

I don't know which category the OP was in: whether he was just looking for customer service or seeking to flirt with the help. What I do know is that he posted this in the dating section so he should not be surprised how this thread turned out.

 

I agree that 90% of men are not participating in customer sexual harassment. I just see several signs that this OP may fall into that other 10% (not saying for sure) and since he posted this in the DATING section, it's natural the conversation went there, as Zenobia said. Also: he didn't just write about this bad sales experience; he also correlated it to pretty women on the street not looking at him and being cold, which makes me think he's being predatory about pretty women with the salesgirl. After all, if he's NOT flirting with her and just wants shoes. . . what's the issue with her lack of eye contact?

 

Eye contact really isn't a dealbreaker in most sales scenarios anyway, if you're just looking for someone to get you a pair of shoes. And even that description -- she didn't have great eye contact -- was not in the OP. It came later. The OP doesn't really list anything at all the girl does, except be pretty which the OP correlates to snotty.

 

An OP that said, for instance:

 

This pretty salesgirl at the shoe store was really rude. She said she didn't care if I bought the shoes. She took forever to get me my shoes, even though she wasn't helping any other customers, and she didn't even apologize to me at all. She spoke tersely and rudely to me, and she was not knowledgeable or helpful at all.

 

In that, I'd wonder: Okay, so what does her being pretty have to do with it and why is it in the dating section, but yeah: that's some crappy service.

 

This OP doesn't even write about the crappy service (if it existed). Just about her beauty and his feelings about it. And all those beauties on the street, not giving him the time of day.

[Mrlonelyone]

He posted here because as another reply pointed out this section gets the most response by far.

 

If he posted it elsewhere this would have at most 10 replies and been far less illuminating.

[irc333]

Anyway, whatever's on her mind, she can talk about it with you, if she wants to, a lot more easily if you just ask her how she is, not say something potentially off-putting.

 

Men always risk saying something off putting (depends on the woman) and saying "Hi, how are you doing today" might even be off putting as well.

 

Just a risk like anything else