What is the point of this forum?

[eleanor01]

Hey, Y'all,

 

I am, of course, new to this forum. So, please forgive me my confusion. The description says that this is supposed to be: "The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." Many of the posts and responses seem to contradict this stated purpose.

 

Is the premise here that an affair is always unacceptable? And that there are not shades of grey? I posted yesterday and today in the "Is it justified?" thread. The responses I got and what I read in some of the other threads make me wonder if there might be more betrayed spouses on this board than OPs. The "support" often seems to be: it's always wrong; it's dishonorable; it's inconsiderate; you are showing poor judgment; he is a liar; no good can come of this; get out of it. The actual "support" seems to occur mostly when an OW/OM is trying to get out of or "recover from" an affair. To me, this makes it seem pretty similar to a breakup forum.

 

So, I joined this forum because I thought I might learn from others' experiences, especially when dealing with my own inevitable longing and loneliness. This is not his fault--I knew what I was getting into. But, please. . . if actually supporting the OP isn't the point of the forum, could somebody please let me know? And if that's the case, and you know of an OP forum with a different feel, could you please direct me there?

 

Thanks,

Ellie

[bentnotbroken]

Take what you can use and leave the rest. But I am sure someone will come along shortly and say whatever you are looking for.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

There are forums that are only for OM/W. Perhaps someone could direct you there, I don't think posting a link is acceptable. This forum remains open despite many requests to have a closed forum. My thought is that there are 3 side to the triange. How can you adequately discuss the A without considering each side? You will get plenty of support here. There are members who believe that all affairs are acceptable. It will take some thick skin though.

[carhill]

The purpose of the forum is:

 

Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

Opinion varies as to what is acceptable and appropriate. Each of us has our own unique perspectives about such matters, as well as what we consider to be 'support'. Some people offer their own experiences. Other offer 'tough love'. Other provide a more clinical perspective. On and on. If you ask a question or share an anecdote, there will always be a mix of response.

 

I personally tend to follow the precepts of how our psychologist progressed MC while I was in an EA; essentially a path of support and challenge. Too much challenge and I would disengage and dismiss the proceedings as impotent. Too much support and I would feel enabled and empowered. I came to see the mix of both as the true efficacy of the process.

 

I'll have to read your backstory to comment further. Understanding is part of the process. Without that, there is no basis for either support or challenge.

 

Your assessment of the 'mix' of posters, at least active ones, is probably accurate. You'll see very few MM's and MW's posting here, even fMM's/fMW's. There are some, mostly those who have reconciled. Active OM's/OW's do come and go but, again, very few remain as active posters.

 

As your MM is a caregiver of a terminally ill spouse, your story underscores how unique each situation can be. Truthfully, only the people inside the M know the true dynamics of the M and what decisions and agreements the spouses have made and in what context.

 

As an example, my mother cared for my father for about six years as he died of cancer and never considered herself needing the 'care' of another man. Her spouse was dying and she was committed to him and that was her path. She had me to share some of the frustrations and fears with, as well as her friends. That was her; her life choices, her marital dynamic, her psychology. Your MM's is uniquely his. Is he 'wrong'. I wouldn't presume to decide that. Is he hurting anyone? Unknown. I'd have to interview his loved ones. Is it wrong because he's hurting someone, if he is? I might think so but my opinion doesn't rule his life.

 

Our psychologist asked me many times if I thought it 'inappropriate' to be de-prioritizing my marriage with another woman. We debated that subject for a number of months. We also, as a couple, debated the impetus for those actions, which we both bore responsibility for. Again, challenge and support.

 

As a fMM and fOW, I've chosen to stay here and weather the differing perspectives because I find valuable information within them as well as enjoy sharing the subject matter, even if occasionally painful. The OW/OM forum is just a tiny aspect of the interactions. Your path is your own. If this forum isn't beneficial to you, then it isn't. There are support forums out there specifically for people in affairs and perhaps those might be a better choice. IDK. Give it a try and see how it goes.

[donnamaybe]

I read a bit of your situation, and I can certainly sympathize. It brought to mind a scene in the movie Waiting to Exhale where Wesley Snipes is describing to Angela Bassett how much he loves his wife - and she is dying. He wants so much to be true to his wife, but he just needs someone. It's very sad.

 

I know your life is no movie scene, but it just illustrates how a situation like this could be viewed in a different fashion as your run-of-the-mill cheating situation where there is a fully aware spouse being lied to on a daily basis and having their life stolen from them.

[Silly_Girl]

...having their life stolen from them.

 

Is that not murder?

 

Eleanor, I appreciate and understand your sentiments.

[no expectations]

The purpose of the forum is:

 

Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

Opinion varies as to what is acceptable and appropriate. Each of us has our own unique perspectives about such matters, as well as what we consider to be 'support'. Some people offer their own experiences. Other offer 'tough love'. Other provide a more clinical perspective. On and on. If you ask a question or share an anecdote, there will always be a mix of response.

 

I personally tend to follow the precepts of how our psychologist progressed MC while I was in an EA; essentially a path of support and challenge. Too much challenge and I would disengage and dismiss the proceedings as impotent. Too much support and I would feel enabled and empowered. I came to see the mix of both as the true efficacy of the process.

 

I'll have to read your backstory to comment further. Understanding is part of the process. Without that, there is no basis for either support or challenge.

 

Your assessment of the 'mix' of posters, at least active ones, is probably accurate. You'll see very few MM's and MW's posting here, even fMM's/fMW's. There are some, mostly those who have reconciled. Active OM's/OW's do come and go but, again, very few remain as active posters.

 

As your MM is a caregiver of a terminally ill spouse, your story underscores how unique each situation can be. Truthfully, only the people inside the M know the true dynamics of the M and what decisions and agreements the spouses have made and in what context.

 

As an example, my mother cared for my father for about six years as he died of cancer and never considered herself needing the 'care' of another man. Her spouse was dying and she was committed to him and that was her path. She had me to share some of the frustrations and fears with, as well as her friends. That was her; her life choices, her marital dynamic, her psychology. Your MM's is uniquely his. Is he 'wrong'. I wouldn't presume to decide that. Is he hurting anyone? Unknown. I'd have to interview his loved ones. Is it wrong because he's hurting someone, if he is? I might think so but my opinion doesn't rule his life.

 

Our psychologist asked me many times if I thought it 'inappropriate' to be de-prioritizing my marriage with another woman. We debated that subject for a number of months. We also, as a couple, debated the impetus for those actions, which we both bore responsibility for. Again, challenge and support.

 

As a fMM and fOW, I've chosen to stay here and weather the differing perspectives because I find valuable information within them as well as enjoy sharing the subject matter, even if occasionally painful. The OW/OM forum is just a tiny aspect of the interactions. Your path is your own. If this forum isn't beneficial to you, then it isn't. There are support forums out there specifically for people in affairs and perhaps those might be a better choice. IDK. Give it a try and see how it goes.

 

This was honestly the most thoughtful, caring response. Beautiful.

[MissBee]

The purpose of the forum is:

 

Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

Opinion varies as to what is acceptable and appropriate. Each of us has our own unique perspectives about such matters, as well as what we consider to be 'support'. Some people offer their own experiences. Other offer 'tough love'. Other provide a more clinical perspective. On and on. If you ask a question or share an anecdote, there will always be a mix of response.

 

I personally tend to follow the precepts of how our psychologist progressed MC while I was in an EA; essentially a path of support and challenge. Too much challenge and I would disengage and dismiss the proceedings as impotent. Too much support and I would feel enabled and empowered. I came to see the mix of both as the true efficacy of the process.

 

I'll have to read your backstory to comment further. Understanding is part of the process. Without that, there is no basis for either support or challenge.

 

Your assessment of the 'mix' of posters, at least active ones, is probably accurate. You'll see very few MM's and MW's posting here, even fMM's/fMW's. There are some, mostly those who have reconciled. Active OM's/OW's do come and go but, again, very few remain as active posters.

 

As your MM is a caregiver of a terminally ill spouse, your story underscores how unique each situation can be. Truthfully, only the people inside the M know the true dynamics of the M and what decisions and agreements the spouses have made and in what context.

 

As an example, my mother cared for my father for about six years as he died of cancer and never considered herself needing the 'care' of another man. Her spouse was dying and she was committed to him and that was her path. She had me to share some of the frustrations and fears with, as well as her friends. That was her; her life choices, her marital dynamic, her psychology. Your MM's is uniquely his. Is he 'wrong'. I wouldn't presume to decide that. Is he hurting anyone? Unknown. I'd have to interview his loved ones. Is it wrong because he's hurting someone, if he is? I might think so but my opinion doesn't rule his life.

 

Our psychologist asked me many times if I thought it 'inappropriate' to be de-prioritizing my marriage with another woman. We debated that subject for a number of months. We also, as a couple, debated the impetus for those actions, which we both bore responsibility for. Again, challenge and support.

 

As a fMM and fOW, I've chosen to stay here and weather the differing perspectives because I find valuable information within them as well as enjoy sharing the subject matter, even if occasionally painful. The OW/OM forum is just a tiny aspect of the interactions. Your path is your own. If this forum isn't beneficial to you, then it isn't. There are support forums out there specifically for people in affairs and perhaps those might be a better choice. IDK. Give it a try and see how it goes.

 

Great post!

 

I particularly agree with the bolded.

[woinlove]

eleanor, I think carhill gives an excellent description.

 

As to whether there are more BSs than OW/OM here, many people commenting or asking questions on your other post are OW or former OW. I myself have been an OW but not a BS and came to LS thinking of getting involved with a MM. The painful stories came as a surprise to me, as I had escaped my earlier A without pain. It was a wakeup call, and together with the pain I read about from BS, closed the door to an A for me. Maybe my read of LS would be different if I had jumped in before coming to LS. I like to think it would still have been a wakeup call for me, but I know the pull of an A can be pretty heady when you are in the midst of it, so I can't be sure. You are at a different stage, already heavily involved, so what you hope to and what you might get from LS will likely be different. There are some who will give you support and reassurance for staying in the A if that is what you want to do, but that will not be the only perspective you will hear, even amongst OW/fOW.

[PatFinkle]

The point of this forum is to provide an opportunity for members to provide this website with a lot of free content around which the website operator can place lots of paid advertising for a profit motive.

[waytogo]

Hey, Y'all,

 

I am, of course, new to this forum. So, please forgive me my confusion. The description says that this is supposed to be: "The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." Many of the posts and responses seem to contradict this stated purpose.

 

Is the premise here that an affair is always unacceptable? And that there are not shades of grey? I posted yesterday and today in the "Is it justified?" thread. The responses I got and what I read in some of the other threads make me wonder if there might be more betrayed spouses on this board than OPs. The "support" often seems to be: it's always wrong; it's dishonorable; it's inconsiderate; you are showing poor judgment; he is a liar; no good can come of this; get out of it. The actual "support" seems to occur mostly when an OW/OM is trying to get out of or "recover from" an affair. To me, this makes it seem pretty similar to a breakup forum.

 

So, I joined this forum because I thought I might learn from others' experiences, especially when dealing with my own inevitable longing and loneliness. This is not his fault--I knew what I was getting into. But, please. . . if actually supporting the OP isn't the point of the forum, could somebody please let me know? And if that's the case, and you know of an OP forum with a different feel, could you please direct me there?

 

Thanks,

Ellie

 

Ellie, I hope you will stick around. I can understand the circumstances you describe. I am a FOW. I would tell anyone who just lived in secret to decieve an enabled-minded person it's a very poor choice. I did read your posts to the thread last night. Sorry, I was too tired to engaged. It seems the W in this case doesn't have the capacity to understand even if he told her about your R. Others feel differently, but I do see this different from an A.

 

There are BS's here. Some are trying to understand the 'other side' and still have raw emotions. Many still give support and insight to their side with kindness. You will have supporters and people who disagree with your decision. Whether it seems so or not, that's 2 reasons to stay

[carhill]

Sorry about the gender ambiguity. I meant 'former OM'

 

Helping folks to clarity is one potential point of the forum and calling myself a fOW wasn't exactly helping that....

[seren]

Sorry about the gender ambiguity. I meant 'former OM'

 

Helping folks to clarity is one potential point of the forum and calling myself a fOW wasn't exactly helping that....

 

Phew!! so glad you cleared that up Carhill, there was me thinking, so, Carhill is Transgendered, OK and was wondering if you were pre op. I also echo how well put your post was.

 

Ellie, I am a wife whose husband had an A, we are reconciled. When I was searching for somewhere to try to understand A's I stumbled accross an OW only site and mistakenly posted that I didn't blame the OW and shared my story, pain and feelings. I was totally and very vitrolically whiplashed by one and all. It was a crap time to receive that treatment and could have coloured my view of OW/OM, but I found LS and read some of the sad stories, empathised with a lot of the BS, but also came to understand that for all of us in an A, the WS is the one person in the triangle who holds the power, the answers and who gets the most out of it.

I read your story and it is incredibly sad, I used to work with, amongst others, carers and the loneliness is so draining. I have a long standing illness, but have the support of my H, without him I simply couldn't manage alone, but would have a dammed good try if he wanted to up sticks. Alzheimer's and Dementia type illnesses are to me, a sort of loss, the loss of who the person was, while them still being there in body is devastating, but still the carer's carry on and love the person that was. I would not condemn anyone in this situation for looking for comfort, understanding and love from another. I couldn't do it, but that's me talking from my position now. My advice would be to keep a piece of your heart back for I have seen many carers eaten up with guilt when their loved one dies if they have been seeing another. Not saying it will happen or could happen, but it does sometimes.

 

There are some on this forum who are here just to attack or some who have no experience of A's but are still able to empathise and yet some who imagine they would act a certain way, but really none of us really know as we do not live that person's life. There is an OW only forum, not just one, but this site is friendly and helpful too, if brutal at times.

[fooled once]

Like with any site - take what you need and leave the rest.

 

I know many like to emphasis the "support" portion, but there is also the "discussion" portion.

 

Support comes in many shapes and sizes Everyone is entitled to their view and as long as they follow the guidelines, it is up to each person to decide what relates to them and what doesn't.

[stillafool]

Hey, Y'all,

 

if actually supporting the OP isn't the point of the forum, could somebody please let me know? And if that's the case, and you know of an OP forum with a different feel, could you please direct me there?

 

Thanks,

Ellie

 

Most people here won't support having an affair and view it as wrong. You can google "forums for people having affairs" and you will find a forum for people who cheat on their spouses.

[Lexygirl]

Sorry about the gender ambiguity. I meant 'former OM'

 

Helping folks to clarity is one potential point of the forum and calling myself a fOW wasn't exactly helping that....

 

LMAO ! I totally caught that and was like WTF? Perhaps I should read his/her situation in detail soon

 

 

BTW, Carhill, I agree with this 100% .....

 

I personally tend to follow the precepts of how our psychologist progressed MC while I was in an EA; essentially a path of support and challenge. Too much challenge and I would disengage and dismiss the proceedings as impotent. Too much support and I would feel enabled and empowered. I came to see the mix of both as the true efficacy of the process.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Lexygirl

[Lexygirl]

I feel that if you can come away with one or two 'light bulb' moments, it's worth putting yourself out there.

 

I also feel that if ppl are willing to take precious time out to type out their feelings and thoughts, that's wonderful... HOWEVER, there are those ppl who have a hidden agenda and really aren't here to help anyone but are here to try to soothe their own hurt by hurting others who are possibly 'similar' to their WS. All it does is prolong their pain and make themselves look evil while confusing the OP even more.

 

In the end, just remember that no one on the internet can know exactly what you are going through in real life so take what support you can here but also try to get as much support in real life as possible.

Take care.

[Gentlegirl]

Dear Ellie,

 

The forum is about discussion and support for those involved with a partner who is committed to a third party.

 

Some posters are OW/OM. Some are BS.

 

YOu will find a variety of replies to what you put up here. Don't expect everybody to be supportive and agree with what you and your MM are doing.

 

Everybody has their own life experiences and perspective to add. Take what you can . You will find many genuine generous people here. I believe most have had some experience with an A.

 

I also believe some come here with the purpose of venting their anger and spite. That could manifest itself through religion and "I am holier than thou" messages or just through taunts and jibes and cruel comments. Just use common sense and sort out the lambs from the goats... believe me some real goats post on here, or as we would call them in Australia "Drongos"

 

YOu worry me Ellie. What will happen to you when the wife passes away? You might not think it, but the MM could suddenly see things in a very different light. He will be grieving and people whoe are in grief do not exactly think clearly . YOur situation could change quickly and dramatically. He might suddenly feel overhwhelming guilt. It could end up a dreadful mess and I see you as the one who will lose out.

 

In your original post you say you love the MM and feel compassion for him. That's fine Ellie, but how about you?

 

You seem to be devoting yourself to him and maybe not looking out for ELLIE enough.

 

Something will come along and change the present set of circumstances. It is but temporary. I hope you are looking at that element of your A...I didn't because I suppose deep down it was too bloody hard at the time.

 

Just some thoughts to you from me....

 

Gentlegirl

[Mimolicious]

Can't say more than what everyone else has but can just add this:

 

Regardless of the labels that we are given here there is one thing that we all have in common and have felt deeply at one point in our lives. Pain is pain and we all have felt it. Be well.

[eleanor01]

Carhill--

 

That post must have taken you a long time to write. It was so kind and open and eloquent.

 

Thank you,

Ellie

[eleanor01]

Most people here won't support having an affair and view it as wrong. You can google "forums for people having affairs" and you will find a forum for people who cheat on their spouses.

 

That's exactly what I did an how I found y'all. *giggle*

 

Best,

Ellie

[woinlove]

That's exactly what I did an how I found y'all. *giggle*

 

Best,

Ellie

 

Then you likely want some of the mix here, which I think is positive. A quick look through a few threads on LS shows the mix, while that google search clearly has sites devoted to helping people have affairs. Clearly affairs are complex and can end up affecting a lot of people, so the mix can be quite beneficial as carhill and others explain.

[eleanor01]

My advice would be to keep a piece of your heart back for I have seen many carers eaten up with guilt when their loved one dies if they have been seeing another. Not saying it will happen or could happen, but it does sometimes.

 

After his wife passed, there the OW was, primed and ready to move in, after a "respectable mouring period" of course:rolleyes:. Little did she know that the WS felt so guilty after the wife's death, that he could barely stand to look at the OW. Along with all the small-town gossip that ensued afterwards, he dropped the OW like a hot potato, and she's now seen as the town whore while he's gone on to marry a "nice" (their word) woman from church. Seems like a double standard, but OW was seen as the vulture that swooped in to take advantage of a man in an emotional state who otherwise would never have given her a second glance had his W not fallen so ill.

 

True story. Not saying it will happen to you, but it happens more than some would like to admit.

 

Also I am worried about you because when the inevitable happens he is going to have to deal with grief and unless he is a stone man he is going to feel guilt, guilt about you. That guilt might cause him to push you away. IMO, you are taking a very real risk, loving this man as things could turn out quite badly for you. Have you thought about this? What do you expect to happen after his wife dies?

 

gentlegirl

YOu worry me Ellie. What will happen to you when the wife passes away? You might not think it, but the MM could suddenly see things in a very different light. He will be grieving and people whoe are in grief do not exactly think clearly . YOur situation could change quickly and dramatically. He might suddenly feel overhwhelming guilt. It could end up a dreadful mess and I see you as the one who will lose out.

 

Wow. The responses that y'all posted were so kind. Thank you. You know, what y'all said in the quotes above never occurred to me! I did think of many ways that this could turn out badly, but having him push me away because he felt guilty just didn't. *scratching head* I don't know why.

 

I appreciate your concern and warning. Really. I'll keep it in the back of my mind and if it does happen, I'll at least not be completely blindsided.

 

Thanks so much,

Ellie