Marital Bed

[carrie999]

That's the problem with your responses Bent - no one is discussing your bed. It doesn't matter how many times your kids have been in your bed. You are assuming that your bed = every bed.

 

The important take on OP's first post was that she is uncomfortable with this situation. Responses should offer advice, or ask questions related to that point. The BW isn't posting here. The bed isn't posting here. The kids aren't posting here complaining that a strange lady is banging pee pees with daddy in their cuddle spot. Addressing those people or those issues serves no purpose here.

 

LOL!!! Perfectly put.

[OpenBook]

He works at least in part from his home and when I'm there he often wants to fool around in his marital bed.

 

Any MM who invites their OW into their marital bed strikes me as being deeply angry with his W. Like, beyond hate. It's breathtakingly insulting to her. It's gotta have more to do with whatever is (or isn't) going on between him and his W, than it does with the OW. He wants to make memories with you there, so that he can think about you later when he's laying there with his W, and get some kind of silent kick out of that?

 

I can't imagine that kind of hate and contempt toward someone you're married to. Beyond creepy, if you ask me! Yet another reason why it's good to be single. I've dodged a bullet.

[Severely Unamused]

I don't assume ever bed as my bed anymore than you assume every bed is just a thing and should be viewed as such, so I guess we have the same problem. But I do find all who have sex in someone else's bed without their permission reprehensible and a bit on the doggy side. By the way all our houses didn't burn down and all our parents didn't raise us the way yours did....just sayin.

 

Yep, we are getting caught up in the semantics of a bloody bed here. So...

 

You've described your emotions, happywithme. But you haven't suggested an aim.

 

I don't know what I want from this

That's where you need to go next. Nobody wants to be stuck in limbo angsting over their past and present situation forever. Edited August 5, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[whichwayisup]

Memories are also made on the kitchen floor, on the couch, in the shower, on the desk in the office, in the car, in the backyard - and, depending on how adventurous one might be, in the bathroom at Home Depot, in a dark corner of your favorite bar, etc.

 

It's not about where, it's with whom. No matter where one betrays their spouse, it is a betrayal. It doesn't get better or worse by choosing a different location.

 

.... and she did NOT say they had sex in any of the kids rooms. Read it again - she said it had been considered.

 

For all anyone who has responded here so far knows, the only thing that has happened in this marital bed is the guy and his wife slept there, maybe at the same time. For all anyone here knows, the kids are from her or his previous marriage, and he and she have never had sex, in that bed or anywhere else.

 

Lots of assumptions and focusing on the wrong thing.

 

So beds aren't a big deal to you, but they are to others. Respectfully agree to disagree, you have your thoughts on this and I have mine.

 

No you read it again, she has implied they have done it in the marital bed though she plans on not letting it happen again. She never actually says they haven't done it in the kids bed.. It is something that was discussed, and honestly, I think if she did have sex in their children's bed, she wouldn't admit it on here. Just my 2 cents.

[whichwayisup]

Any MM who invites their OW into their marital bed strikes me as being deeply angry with his W. Like, beyond hate. It's breathtakingly insulting to her. It's gotta have more to do with whatever is (or isn't) going on between him and his W, than it does with the OW. He wants to make memories with you there, so that he can think about you later when he's laying there with his W, and get some kind of silent kick out of that?

 

I can't imagine that kind of hate and contempt toward someone you're married to. Beyond creepy, if you ask me! Yet another reason why it's good to be single. I've dodged a bullet.

 

I do agree with this, yet with that said, it also says something about an OW who hops in the marital bed without thinking it through. I'm just glad that the OP seems grossed out by it and plans on not letting it happen again in the marital bed.

[NoIDidn't]

Scenario: The OW's Bed

Actors: The W and MM

 

Some here think it couldn't happen and swear they'd say "a bed is just a bed". An OW I know was/is friends with the MM and his W. There was an incident in their home and the OW invited them to stay the night with her until the problem could be fixed. While there, the H and W had sex in her bed - on fresh sheets, of course.

 

The OW was horrified and angry. How DARE he have sex with HIS W in HER (the OW) bed when that was THEIR (The MM and OW) special, private and intimate place!!! She never had sex with him in his bed, but in his home a few times, because she couldn't fathom disrespecting the W's bed in that way.

 

But the W didn't know they were having an affair until the blow up she had with him about the fact that he slept with his W while in her bed.

 

So many OPs have noted that they know the MM and his W personally. Have stated that they know for a fact that the MM and W rarely ever have sex. But would probably be mortified if one of those rare times was in their (the OPs) bed.

 

OP (Original poster), I'd be too grossed out to have sex in someone else's bed. I can only imagine the additional layers of horror I would feel should I be involved in an affair and in the marital home, let alone the marital bed.

[SoMovinOn]

I don't assume ever bed as my bed anymore than you assume every bed is just a thing and should be viewed as such, so I guess we have the same problem.

 

Good point. You got me on that one.

 

But I do find all who have sex in someone else's bed without their permission reprehensible and a bit on the doggy side.

 

What about having sex with their spouse without their permission?

What if he only has sex with his AP on HIS side of the bed?

What about the fact the OP was uncomfortable with the entire situation, and the bed really wasn't an issue?

[SoMovinOn]

So beds aren't a big deal to you, but they are to others. Respectfully agree to disagree, you have your thoughts on this and I have mine.

 

The point is, the bed HAS become a big deal here, with the usual LS chorus of abusers spewing their venom over a non-issue while offering nothing on the actual issue. They aren't posting to be helpful in any way, they are just posting to be hateful. I doesn't help the OP, it doesn't help the person spewing the venom either, it doesn't help anyone.

 

 

No you read it again, she has implied they have done it in the marital bed though she plans on not letting it happen again. She never actually says they haven't done it in the kids bed.. It is something that was discussed, and honestly, I think if she did have sex in their children's bed, she wouldn't admit it on here. Just my 2 cents.

 

Excellent guess. I wonder why anyone needs to post at all then. Couldn't everyone just throw out their name, then everyone else can guess what their problem is and for what they need to be chastised and abused?

 

Maybe... we could ask questions to find out things we don't know or are unsure of.

 

Maybe... we can focus on what is important to the OP, rather than going off on some tangent based on what is important to us.

 

Just a thought.

[SoMovinOn]

OP (Original poster)' date=' I'd be too grossed out to have sex in someone else's bed. I can only imagine the additional layers of horror I would feel should I be involved in an affair and in the marital home, let alone the marital bed.[/quote']

 

As a BS, I dealt with a lot of the wrong things initially, such as worrying about where they did it. Over time, I realized the betrayal, deceit and lies were the issue, and none of the details changed any of that.

[Silly_Girl]

I think if she did have sex in their children's bed, she wouldn't admit it on here.

 

So she gets judged for things you've decided in your head she's done??!

 

This is an ongoing problem here, lots of posters do it. Most unhelpful.

[NoIDidn't]

As a BS, I dealt with a lot of the wrong things initially, such as worrying about where they did it. Over time, I realized the betrayal, deceit and lies were the issue, and none of the details changed any of that.

 

The lies, deceit, and betrayal are all "big picture" issues. I'm a "Big Picture" person myself. The fact THAT they did it matters more to me than WHEERE they did it. But it will start to matter as I learn more about WHAT they did while they betrayed me.

 

Obviously some people are far more territorial than others.

[SoMovinOn]

The lies, deceit, and betrayal are all "big picture" issues. I'm a "Big Picture" person myself. The fact THAT they did it matters more to me than WHEERE they did it. But it will start to matter as I learn more about WHAT they did while they betrayed me.

 

Obviously some people are far more territorial than others.

 

I don't think it's that they're territorial, it's that they can't fix what's broken, they can't undo what's done, so they look for something they *can* address, or they want to physically hurt their spouse, but they can't, so they lash out at something else, or they want to know every single detail because they think that if they just know enough it will make the hurt go away. It's a whole lot of psychology, a whole lot of misdirection... it's easily one of the most difficult things a person might have to deal with in their life.

 

In the end, it boils down to letting it go and forgetting about it. If you're going to stay, you have to put it behind you, or you'll never have any sort of good relationship and marriage. If you're going to leave, you let it go and get on with your life, because holding on to it doesn't serve any purpose. If you don't let it go, either way, it's like walking around with a dead elephant chained to your neck.

[seren]

Firstly, to the OP, I agree with some of the comments that it sounds like you are unhappy with the situation and would ask that you look at what you get out of this A. It does sound rather like he is holding a lot of power cards and the not wearing a condom and dare I say it, the bed thing, strikes me as a manipulative thing to do. Do you feel you have an equal relationship or does it seem that the MM makes all the decisions. I would also ask, where do you see this going and more importantly, are you happy with it all.

 

Secondly, the bed thing. a conversation in our house just yesterday. We have friends coming to stay with their two children, I suggested to H that they sleep in our bed and me and he in the dining room. H's response was no way, that's our bed, it's a new bed and he didn't want anyone else sleeping there as it was our space. I reflected upon the comments made in this thread and remembered that after D Day one of my questions was if they had used our house, not just for sex, but even had she been in my kitchen etc. The answer was a firm no, which I found sort of ironic really as of course he had, had sex with her. It shouldn't have mattered, but it did as that was my safe place, my sanctuary and our space, filled with our memories.

 

If I were an OW, I would not only find it distasteful, I cannot imagine sleeping in their room with their things around me. That would be dipping my toe too far into their pond. The disrespect shown by the MM says far more about him than the OW, and is disrespectful to both the OW and the BS. Memories are built up of more than events, places are very important too and the bed/sex thing would trigger me immensely. Guard your heart OP and ask yourself what exactly you are getting out of all this and in the words of L'Oreal, Is he worth it?

[NoIDidn't]

I don't think it's that they're territorial, it's that they can't fix what's broken, they can't undo what's done, so they look for something they *can* address, or they want to physically hurt their spouse, but they can't, so they lash out at something else, or they want to know every single detail because they think that if they just know enough it will make the hurt go away. It's a whole lot of psychology, a whole lot of misdirection... it's easily one of the most difficult things a person might have to deal with in their life.

 

In the end, it boils down to letting it go and forgetting about it. If you're going to stay, you have to put it behind you, or you'll never have any sort of good relationship and marriage. If you're going to leave, you let it go and get on with your life, because holding on to it doesn't serve any purpose. If you don't let it go, either way, it's like walking around with a dead elephant chained to your neck.

 

I think I am splitting hairs on this, but I don't agree with the "let it go" portion. I agree that people realize that they can't see a way to fix what was broken initially, but I don't think the "fix" is to fuggetaboutit. I think the fix is to accept that it happened and create a reasonable work-around. Some people really can't live with the fact that a person they did not choose to allow into their lives now knows what their personal things look like. And have likely passed some sort of judgment on them as a result.

 

I also don't think it is lashing out at someone else, if the person actually DID violate you and your personal space. And, oftentimes the person helping your spouse violate you would not want you doing the same thing to them. This is not a misplaced anger for a very real violation.

 

But I do agree that people violated in such a way have to find a way to deal with it. The best way is to tell the one that they trusted to not have done such a thing how they feel about it. Its no good stuffing one's feelings and acting as if they forgot about it and moved on without having their say.

 

Personally, though, I couldn't stay married to a man that brought another woman into my home for any kind of romantic liaison. That behavior reveals a much larger lack of respect for the family, the marriage, the spouse, and maybe even the other person than I can bear staying with.

[MissBee]

You don't sound very thrilled with this situation, which goes without saying, but still....

 

Nice is a dime a dozen, lots of people are nice and most people can be superficially nice, which doesn't mean much....so yes he was nice and you thought he was brilliant and so on but on the other hand he is also kind of a loser, he can't even afford his affair and has you spreading for him in his marital bed, where you feel uncomfortable, and he's your boss and as you've said yourself, it is a mess. No one influenced you to think it was a mess, you came here already thinking it is a mess...and it is.

 

We could go on about what the marital bed means or not and point out how dude is kind of a loser...BUT the point is, he is entitled to be a loser and he is entitled to do as he wishes with his marital bed, but YOU are also responsible for what you do irrespective of him. The people and situations we get involved with tell a lot about how we feel and think about ourselves! Soooo....ya. I think you should follow your gut and leave this mess alone. It is not glamorous, cute, romantic, loving or that fun, it doesn't seem....you will not be losing anything by opting out of this mess (except maybe your job) but you may lose that anyway by continuing the affair. You also may end up disliking yourself quite a lot if you continue and these negative feelings you have increase. At least you can take a way some semblance of dignity if you leave it alone now, before it gets worst, OR before a dday occurs OR he leaves you high and dry. The WORST is when you're compromising yourself "for" another and they "don't appreciate it" and say "Thanks! Don't let the door hit you on the a$$!"....you end up feeling very used and foolish for going against your better judgment, all for naught!

 

Do what's best for YOU....this isn't it evidently.

Edited August 5, 2011 by MissBee

[Spark1111]

I agree with Seren and OPs who have suggested that this represents really disrespectful treatment of you.

 

It also smacks of deep anger and a need to punish the wife who he is probably perceiving does not love or validate him enough.

 

It is pure, childish rebellion to bring your lover to your marital bed. It is an attempt to punish a mean mommy.

 

Which brings me to this: Does this man truly CARE about you? Or are you the instrument he is using to hurt his wife with? Be careful here. You could get really, really hurt here.

[MissBee]

I agree with Seren and OPs who have suggested that this represents really disrespectful treatment of you.

 

It also smacks of deep anger and a need to punish the wife who he is probably perceiving does not love or validate him enough.

 

It is pure, childish rebellion to bring your lover to your marital bed. It is an attempt to punish a mean mommy.

Which brings me to this: Does this man truly CARE about you? Or are you the instrument he is using to hurt his wife with? Be careful here. You could get really, really hurt here.

 

It doesn't seem so....

 

There isn't even any flowery talks of romance, care, love or even like. It's just sex in the marital bed and car it seems

 

Some affairs do contain romance and care or at the very least, the appearance of such and there are various elements to the relationship that mirror something possibly meaningful but in happy's case it doesn't seem like this "relationship" is much of a relationship (A or not) at all! They don't seem to go on dates, they don't seem to talk, she hasn't mentioned ANY non-sexual feelings at all. This man seems to be in it for cheap thrills and other reasons which do not remotely resemble the: "I am so enthralled and in love with this other woman and have found my soulmate but am trapped in my marriage" thing. Happy seems to be a pawn in his own game and he seems to be promoting his own agenda.

 

Happy, how is this relationship besides the marital bed thing? What else happens outside of the sex, if you don't mind sharing.

[skylarblue]

Hi,

 

I've been reading this forum for some time and thought I'd finally ask a question.

 

First off, I know its messed up, I just don't know what to do.

 

I've been invovled with my MM for six months, it started slow (we work together) and it is only occasionally. He works at least in part from his home and when I'm there he often wants to fool around in his marital bed. The more I think of that, the more I realize its a little messed up. Is this a common thing? Do you all have the same experience?

 

It’s a lot messed up. Not sure how common it is, but MM uses his marital bed regularly (2 of 3 MM I’d dated in my lifetime did). Initially, it was a goal of mine and I got a big ego boost from it. It was more occasional at first. Now, that it’s all the time and our R has changed, I don’t relate to it or in that way much. What’s weird is that after dday is when it became uber frequent and first thing that came to my mind was he was saying f*ck you big time to her. But I don’t think he thinks of it that way. My guess of his thought is it’s his house (she moved in with him), his bed (his single income bought/pays for everything), and I’m his gf who he loves. Logically, like couples do, we would be intimate in the bedroom, his bedroom (which is just also theirs). I spend the night 99% of the time so it’s not like we just go there, have a romp, and leave before she gets home. Not that it makes it any better.

 

There’s a NYTimes article (1/12/11) “Don’t Try This At Home: Adultery In The Marital Bed” (or google: infidelity marital bed) stating:

 

“All but one of 18 marriage counselors and divorce lawyers interviewed said they saw at-home adultery rarely, if ever, although the divorce lawyers saw it more often than the therapists.”

 

“Richard Roane, a divorce lawyer, said he had seen a dozen such cases in the estimated 2,200 divorces he has handled.”

 

“Susan Bender, a divorce lawyer for 31 years, estimates that 10 percent of her firm’s clients or their spouses have engaged in infidelity in the home.”

 

“Dwight Grisham, a psychologist for 23yrs, and Esther Perel, author of “Mating in Captivity” and 27 yrs as a marriage and family therapist, had seen only one case of infidelity in the marriage bed.”

 

So maybe it’s not so common.

[MissBee]

It’s a lot messed up. Not sure how common it is, but MM uses his marital bed regularly (2 of 3 MM I’d dated in my lifetime did). Initially, it was a goal of mine and I got a big ego boost from it. It was more occasional at first. Now, that it’s all the time and our R has changed, I don’t relate to it or in that way much. What’s weird is that after dday is when it became uber frequent and first thing that came to my mind was he was saying f*ck you big time to her. But I don’t think he thinks of it that way. My guess of his thought is it’s his house (she moved in with him), his bed (his single income bought/pays for everything), and I’m his gf who he loves. Logically, like couples do, we would be intimate in the bedroom, his bedroom (which is just also theirs). I spend the night 99% of the time so it’s not like we just go there, have a romp, and leave before she gets home. Not that it makes it any better.

 

There’s a NYTimes article (1/12/11) “Don’t Try This At Home: Adultery In The Marital Bed” (or google: infidelity marital bed) stating:

 

“All but one of 18 marriage counselors and divorce lawyers interviewed said they saw at-home adultery rarely, if ever, although the divorce lawyers saw it more often than the therapists.”

 

“Richard Roane, a divorce lawyer, said he had seen a dozen such cases in the estimated 2,200 divorces he has handled.”

 

“Susan Bender, a divorce lawyer for 31 years, estimates that 10 percent of her firm’s clients or their spouses have engaged in infidelity in the home.”

 

“Dwight Grisham, a psychologist for 23yrs, and Esther Perel, author of “Mating in Captivity” and 27 yrs as a marriage and family therapist, had seen only one case of infidelity in the marriage bed.”

 

So maybe it’s not so common.

 

Interesting but not surprising.

 

It makes sense that most people just wouldn't take it there for several reasons and it almost seems like one really has to be going out of their way or is purposefully trying to be malicious by doing that.

 

I saw a case where a guy was cheating on his gf, and had his OW driving around town in the gf's car! OMG That was disrespectful and beyond and I take the marriage bed to be the same type of extra disrespect. I understand how you and your MM have characterized the bed, but in a case where you did in fact purchase this bed together and so on, I would be FURIOUS if some woman was sexing my husband on a bed I BOUGHT! In a house I PAY for...outside my knowledge! Find somewhere else to consummate your affair...and make your own unique space versus infringing upon mine.

[cupshalfempty]

We did do it in his bed, and I totally got the feeling it was more of an F U to her each time. Most times @ his house it was in a spare bed but then he would literally pick me up and take me to his bed. Since I've been single I have rarely gone there, sorry I preffer my own bed, my own shower, the not having to deal with getting caught in the act. Yes I will admit @ first it was a cheap thrill that was what the affair was @ first. I as well looked for cheap ways to say FU to my hub in where we did the deed although then I never brought mm to my home as he inststed I go to his all the time.

 

I do wonder though, what about the couch? When H and I did go through periods of having sexual encounters (with us sex would be in spurts a week where we would attempt to get it "back" and then months of nothing, mostly the nothing was me ill admit) H liked it on the couch, so does that make the couch as bad as the marital bed? Is it only about the sex? I'd think with the bed its about the moments. To me if my H had an A in my bed I wouldn't be thinking about the sex we had, it would be the place I slept with my child, nursed my babies..etc. Of course this makes me a hypocrite as my mm now comes to my house, but its only my bed now and I'm the only one that lay with my children in it.

[woinlove]

Funny. I have permission to be in her bed. I've slept there. Doesn't mean I'd have sex with him there. But by your definition, I suppose she's given me the okay to do so by allowing me to be in their bed?

 

Ouch, Carrie, you are that close to and trusted by the BW that she invites you into her bed? The last time I suffered a betrayal was many years ago by a MM separated from his stbxw but "cheating" with his sbtxw, so it hardly came as surprise and some people might even question who was being betrayed. Still, just seeing you write how close and trusted you are by the BS hit me in the gut as to how people chose to treat each other. I hope you and WS choose to move to a kinder place very soon. Where you are right now can't be a very good place to be.

 

For the OP, it doesn't sound like a double betrayal, and from what you write it does sound like you want to get out of this situation but the employment is something you need and want. I think the MM is a terrible user, being so much older, being your employer, and how he is treating you and his W. It may seem unfair that because he used you that you have to give up something important to you, but life is not always fair. I think your life can get much worse the more you get involved with this MM and I encourage you to think about other job opportunities and extracting yourself from MM. I'm sure you will be happier in the long run.

[eleanor01]

I mentioned in another thread that I hardly ever think about my ex-boyfriend anymore. I don't know if this will be a useful post to anyone or not. I hope so.

 

So, my ex-boyfriend (we were living together at the time) and his ex-girlfriend #1 had had a lot of tragic things happen in their relationship. She went away for a few years and needed to come back to town to get some of her things. The two of them needed closure. I understood this and I also understood that they'd probably be drinking when they got together (both are alcoholics). Sex was likely, and maybe an important part of the closure.

 

I left town for the weekend so that they could deal with what they needed to deal with. They slept in our bed. Of course. I wished they would have used the guest room, but they didn't. It felt weird coming home and sleeping in our bed again, but I got over it pretty quickly.

 

So, since I had given permission I wasn't upset. So, maybe this isn't germane to this discussion, maybe it is.

 

Best,

Ellie

[woinlove]

I mentioned in another thread that I hardly ever think about my ex-boyfriend anymore. I don't know if this will be a useful post to anyone or not. I hope so.

 

So, my ex-boyfriend (we were living together at the time) and his ex-girlfriend #1 had had a lot of tragic things happen in their relationship. She went away for a few years and needed to come back to town to get some of her things. The two of them needed closure. I understood this and I also understood that they'd probably be drinking when they got together (both are alcoholics). Sex was likely, and maybe an important part of the closure.

 

I left town for the weekend so that they could deal with what they needed to deal with. They slept in our bed. Of course. I wished they would have used the guest room, but they didn't. It felt weird coming home and sleeping in our bed again, but I got over it pretty quickly.

 

So, since I had given permission I wasn't upset. So, maybe this isn't germane to this discussion, maybe it is.

 

Best,

Ellie

 

I think it makes all the difference as to whether you know and it is part of an agreement between you and your SO, or whether the SO leads you to believe an alternate reality while living a double life.

 

However, as one quickly learns in an open M, if something is important it should be discussed in advance and not just assumed - such as don't use our bed. Fortunately, it sounds like the bed wasn't that important to you. For some, it might have been, but maybe that would be enough for them to think to discuss it in advance.

[eleanor01]

woinlove--

 

You are right. And re-reading this thread and my last post, I'm thinking that my post is probably completely beside the point of this thread.

 

Sorry about that.

Ellie

[Kitsune77]

I think this issue is quite loaded, at least for me. The only man I have slept with all night, and woken up with in 12 years , is with my MM. And it has felt strange to me. I've often wondered how he can sleep so deeply with another woman ( not his wife) there.

 

So for me, the marriage bed, would be a fairly sacred place. Mind you, he sends me sexy emails when he's in bed with his wife.. Which makes me feel strange.

 

I think if I where to ever go to their house, and see their life together, i would have to break it off.the reality of the other woman ( his wife) would be too much for me.

I think any man that screws another in his marriage bed, has some anger issues going on in his marriage.

Or he just doesn't care. Either way, OP, I would be a bit wary.