How can I get closer with a guy?

[advicegirl]

Ok, I like this guy and I can talk to him and we are friends. My friend also likes one of his friends. We really like them and I was wondering if anyone had any advice for us to get closer. They both flirt alot and with us too. The thing is the guy I like tells everyone that he doesn't want a girlfriend so people call him gay. When the girls bug him he makes up a girl and changes her name every week. He always is smiling and he is always making me laugh.

Any advice? We really, like these guys.

[Red Flag Rick]

here's a little insight from a gay man that may give you a little more insight...

 

i knew i was gay from the time i was 8 years old and struggled with it for years and years... tried not to be attracted to guys, and went through lots of freaky emotional stages as i tried to come to terms with myself and my natural preference.... so this guy's behavior does not sound foreign to me - he may very well be gay and might be struggling as he evolves into a better understanding of himself. and telling folks that he doesn't want a girlfriend is a line i have used and it is quite common for those who are still coming to terms with their identity...

 

but i wouldn't say that this is the definitive answer... he could just be a mischievious boy and taunting the girls is something he thinks is funny.

 

then again, i learned very quickly that i could make folks laugh and i used this to my advantage to try to stop folks from wondering if i was gay... it was a coping technique and it was my lifeline growing up... kinda silly, but growing up gay in a world like this is more difficult than anyone who hasn't experienced it will ever know... it causes us to do crazy things as we struggle through the journey and try to be at peace with ourselves and fit in with our peer groups and family...

 

if you are good friends with him, watch him closely and throw out subtle hints that let him know you are cool with gay guys - if he is gay and he is struggling, he needs all the close friends he can get right now - and he needs to know that you are a safe place to go because he faces many difficult days ahead...

 

and i assume you are cool with gay guys - if you are not, then you need to be, because older gay guys who have come to terms with themselves always have str8 chicks hanging around them because we know how to treat them and we always make great friends - chicks dig us because we are non-threatening to them and they usually see many qualities in gay guys that they want in a str8 guy... this will help you define what you want in a str8 guy, and you need to know what you want and how to go about finding him...

 

and as a result of having a special bond with str8 girls, we end up knowing everything about our str8 girl friend's dating lives and we know how guys are, so we are an incredible source of knowledge and support for str8 girls as they try to find their man...

 

but many str8 girls are so interested in finding their Prince that they don't understand that there is a correct way to date, and there is also a wrong way to do this - and sweetie, you and your girls better be more interested in learning how to find the right guy than anything else, or you will be setting yourself up for a lifetime of heartache and empty relationships...

 

take it from me - i have many hetero male and female friends and i have heard a ton of stuff over the years - and the main problem girls have is that they believe all the hype about "the perfect man" and "finding Prince Charming" and "your wedding day is the most special day of your life" and "i wanna live happily ever after"....

 

girls are conditioned (brainwashed) to place more importance on how perfect their wedding day should be than with learning how to find a quality guy...

 

i assume you are young - take it from someone who has seen what can happen to a girl if she does not know what she is doing - it is imperative that you and your friends learn how to date and know how guys think - and learning how to get the internal tools you need so you will have the power to protect yourself as you meet guys is absolutely the most important thing you can do at your age - get it together at your age and you will be able to see how things really are - and it will lead you to a quality guy and you will save yourself a lifetime of hurt.

 

so is that little hottie gay or not? it really doesn't matter - you should be asking yourself questions that deal with your own self-esteem and knowledge regarding dating boys... i urge you to search my posts on this board so you will see what can happen to str8 girls and str8 guys in relationships when they don't know how to go about finding the right partner...

 

females are built to be smarter than males, and there is a good reason why this is true - you need to be smarter to protect yourself - and if you do not tap into your power, you will not have the strength and the tools you need to find a quality guy. lots of females have not done this, and if you spend any time on this board, you will see that this is true.

 

don't spend your time obsessing about boys right now - spend more time learning how to find the right boy... and it begins with defining who you are and how much you think you are worth as a person.

 

don't fall for the "perfect man" hype that this society is throwing in your direction every day - he doesn't exist.

 

and don't ever forget that, as a female, you deserve to have the best relationships in life, and you are worth the best guy you can find... this does not happen by itself, and there is an art to finding the quality guys out there...

 

sweetie, i have just given you the keys to unlock a door that can change your life.

 

open the door and enter a world that will lead you to the truths that can bring you a lifetime of happiness and a relationship that you deserve.

 

and no matter what, don't ever forget that you have value and it is your responsibility to define just how much you are worth.

 

and nobody can do this but you.

 

and i hope that some older females who understand the importance of healthy relationships will read this and tell you that what i am telling you is true... so keep checking this thread and i wish you the best...

[advicegirl]

Thank you soo much!! That was really great advice. Yeah, I am friends with people that are gay and I don't make fun of them or anything. Sometimes they do seem to understand better. How do you know when you find the right person, well, signs though? How do you know whats right? Cuz the guy I like now could be or might not be gay. Mostly its people saying he is. He just says no though and that you shouldn't make fun of people who are, and hes right ya shouldn't. Its mean. In away I don't think he is gay. My friends are the worst for guy problems. Every week they are crying. It makes ya feel soo bad. The thing is sometimes its the guys fault and sometimes it is the girls fault. What happens if you really, think you like the person and you think that person is good for you, but how would you really know so you don't go through all the miserable days. I have a problem with jealousy. Only when hes flirting with other girls I get jealous.

thanks again, you have been a great help!

[Red Flag Rick]

please join hands and pray that my shyness will not be such a stumbling block. I will try to open up this time - I know my first post was kinda short.

 

and thank you for thanking me - you are welcome, cutie... any time...

 

How do you know when you find the right person?

 

That's a very good question, and it is one i wish more folks of any gender would ask and explore... i have not found "the answer," and I am certainly no professional or some gay guru... but here's how i found my right person:

 

i changed my focus, worked on my value, it led to higher and deeper expectations of myself and others, and I enjoyed a clarity in life that I never knew... and this led to my right person.

 

i studied folks who I thought had their ship together, and I saw a common thread - they sure did think a lot of themselves... But not in a cocky way - it was much more subtle... and that got me thinking about value... so after much reflection, I realized that if i placed a really high value on myself, i would have to change my expectations because the folks who I was studying definitely had different expectations than me... and they had a life that I didn’t have and enjoyed relationships that I didn’t know how to get to...

 

and when i say "worked on my value," it is hard to understand, i know... it took me some time to figure it out, but i just dug in and started writing down what i wanted in a man and included affirmations and realities about myself that i thought were important... the key is taking action and getting started. it will fall into place as you proceed...

 

and when i took my eyes off everything else and delved into myself by writing, my world opened up... and i wrote letters to myself and letters to my future life partner and went back and studied all of my thoughts - and from these thoughts, i came up with my expectations... looking back, this was a good exercise for me, but all of this is not necessary... i didn't know what i was doing, but i sure did know i wanted to be happy with a guy who rocked my world. so i just wrote.

 

so when i started focusing on my expectations, i saw that i would write something and say to myself, "hey - i want more than that....".... so i would change that expectation and make it better... and that is when my value started really rising... and my clarity became better and I truly saw myself differently for the first time...

 

i started to see things differently, and i started to pay more attention to this process and less attention to whether this guy or that guy was a little hot studmuffin. sounds less than romantic, yes, but by this time, i figured out that if i wanted true romance, i would have to think with my head and not with my heart - my heart hadn't done a very good job up to that point, but that's an entirely different Oprah show...

 

and i prayed that once i found a guy who passed my tests, he would be able to give me the romance i wanted as a result of meeting my expectations.

 

so i put the cart where i thought it should go - behind the horse.

 

the horse equaled my expectations, and the cart equaled my idea of what i wanted in a long term relationship. so i let my expectations be the driving force that pulled my idea, or picture, that i had in my mind of a successful ltr...

 

i didn't let my feelings pull this cart, and i didn't let my emotions, my social conditioning, my parents, my friends, my television, my “little head”, or anything else tell me what i wanted in a man. i defined it on my own terms and used my expectations as my Official Guide.

 

by doing this, i was able to meet guys and look at them with a critical eye - i took my eyes off the way his butt looked in those jeans, and i watched how he acted with everybody as i got to know him - his family, friends, me, of course, and everyone. i had listed my expectations down and i watched him to see if he met any... and i kept working on that list all the time...

 

And don’t think for one minute that I forgot about how his butt looked in those jeans - I just stuck it in the back of my mind because I figured out that I better discover his interior if I wanted a lasting healthy relationship.

 

I was reminded of joan rivers telling the joke that went like this:

 

a woman enters the airplane and asks the stewardess, “ma’am, where’s my seat?”

And the stewardess responds, “three inches below where it was last year.”

 

The exterior fades and our butts droop, but our interiors last forever.

 

for instance, one of my expectations i had (and you need to write them down and study them all the time - revise them all the time and realize what you want - consider it a work in progress, just like you) - anyway, one of my expectations that was important to me was to find a guy who was humble and showed visible signs that he cared for folks... so if a met a guy, i instantly wondered if he was down to earth and grounded, or humble. humility, especially with a str8 guy, shows that he may not be so wrapped up in the macho male world and he may just be one who doesn't have a problem showing his emotions...

 

so i equated humility with being grounded. this was important to me because (as if you can't tell) i am extremely passionate. i show my emotions and i usually don't give a rip what people think, and i knew i wanted a man who could handle this. so by understanding what i wanted, i was able to meet guys with my critical eye because it became more important to me than their pecs and their posteriors.

 

and if i got to know him and i saw that he was trying to act like he was all macho and tough, i saw this as a red flag (this is how you learn to spot red flags) and i watched his actions more closely to see how he communicated with me - did he let me into his world much? did he talk about how he FELT any? was he focused on the sexual more than the intellectual? what did he focus on in life?

 

how did he act around kids - was he stiff and nervous, or did he embrace children and think they were wonderful and get down on the floor immediately and play with them like he was a little kid himself? how was his relationship with his parents? did he show affection to his mom by hugging her when he saw her? did he and his dad even complete sentences together? was he a touchy feely guy with his friends or did he keep his distance? and how did he show his interest in me - was it enough? did he, after we went out a few times, have more fun sitting on the couch watching tv and not talking, or did he plan dates that focused on us getting to know each other? or was he more focused on going out and having a good time?

 

so this is just one expectation and look at all the questions that go with it, and i had many more questions attached to this expectation. and i found that my expectations were connected and i looked at the same cues and related them to many different expectations, and vice-versa... and before i knew it, i had sharpened my skills and recognized signals, or red flags, better and better.

 

so once i had decided that i was worth a guy who met all my expectations, my perspective changed and i sharpened my focus and started looking at guys with a critical eye. and my world changed with every day i thought about it. this is not a one time deal where you learn how to do this and then go do it. it is an evolution - a process. and once you start, it is fun. because once you really examine what you want in a life partner, you become more focused on the right things and you get better and better at this process. it breeds self-confidence, and that makes you feel really good inside...

 

and you get powerful.

 

so you find the right person by setting up your life to look at guys with a critical eye... and guys should do the same thing with girls... it works to our advantage every time. and you will go through some guys, so get ready - not everyone cares anough about themselves and their future to put forth this effort.

 

and another thing this does is take the focus off sex, and this is absolutely necessary for a female to do - guys want you and they want to do one thing, for the most part. they are hunters and they are prowlers and you better have the power to stop that zipper from coming down while you look at them and see if they meet your expectations, or they will nab you and you will "fall in love" for the wrong reasons and with the wrong guy - but he will look at you much differently as a result of your low self-esteem and velcro easy-off capri's.... refer to one of my posts regarding how str8 males see easy girls and ltr's and my point is made.

 

remember - females are programmed since childhood to believe that the most important thing they will ever do is find their Prince Charming, have the perfect wedding day, and live happily ever after. female value and worth is connected to these things.

 

males? well just review my other posts and you will see how they grow up and what they think is important.

 

and as i repeat all the time on this board, females are built to do what i am describing and once they master this process, they have a power over their lives and their destiny that cannot be shaken. and any girl who doesn't stop her dream of finding Prince Charming as she has been conditioned to think over her lifetime is in for a lifetime of heartache from men... and her already weak self-esteem eventually gets reduced to nothing. and i think we are all worth more than that.

 

expectations should be based on the internal - if you have an expectation of finding a man with lots of money, your vision is skewed and it throws you off the scent. so keep them based on internal things... and the more expectations someone meets on your list, the better your chances of finding your right partner.

 

i will list some more of mine so you will get an idea of what i am talking about... this comes straight from my expectations page that I created years ago - keep in mind that my list was much more simplistic when I started the process - that’s why it is important to consider it a living, breathing document - it evolves, just like you do. Here goes:

 

i want a man who comes from a stable family, because i know that history repeats itself. i want a man who's father treats his mother well, because i think that he will have had good role models growing up. And if we have kids, I want the best role model out there.

 

i want a man who has a good work ethic and does not complain about his job all the time. we all have to work and my man should understand this. the longer the work history with one company, the better, because this shows stability and i deserve to be stable in my relationship with him if we are sharing a life together.

 

i want a man who is not afraid to show me his emotions, and i want a man who can contain his anger and speak with me properly when he is upset. I will examine the communication ability of each man I meet and consider this vital to a successful union.

 

i want a man who believes in monogamy, because i am worth someone's complete dedication if we want to spend a lifetime together. I will find out his history with other guys and I will know that this is important.

 

i want a man who is romantic and surprises me with something from his heart sometimes. I understand that his ability to communicate relates to this.

 

i want a man who will really listen to me, because when i talk, i feel that i have something that should be heard. And when I hurt, I do not want to doubt his sincerity and I expect him to be there 100%.

 

i want a man who volunteers in any way, because to me, this shows integrity and a giving spirit. I will watch for signs that define his spirit, such as cutting the sick neighbors yard or throwing money in the salvation army kettle at the holidays. And if he volunteers regularly for the disadvantaged or with children, he will receive more points.

 

i want a man who can be comfortable drinking a beer and watching a football game, but who also has no problem skipping a football game if i want to attend an arts function. I want a man who understands that being in a relationship means sacrifice sometimes - it is not always about the individual anymore, it is about the union.

 

i want a man who understands that maintaining excitement in a relationship takes work, and i think he should show me this as we date. and i pledge to date a man long enough to see this pattern. And I expect excitement to be had outside of the bedroom too.

 

I expect my life partner to, once we meet and are attracted to each other, focus on the inner more instead of the outer, and if he wants to roll in the hay too soon, I will recognize this as a red flag and wonder where his true motives lie.

 

i want a man who sees my friends as just that - my friends - and i want him understand that he doesn't have to love every one of them, but he does have to respect my friends and be a gentleman around them. i do not deserved to be embarrassed.

 

i want a man who values me enough to tell me if i am doing something he doesn't like so we can talk about it like grown-ups, not fight like children. the less drama a man displays as we date, the more points he scores.

 

..................

 

so this is just some of what i had, and by sharing it, i hope that it will put you and others on this track - i assure you that you will see men, and everyone else in your life, in a much brighter light. so cut and paste my expectations and make them your own if you like - they sure did work for me.

 

you asked,

"How do you know what's right? Cuz the guy I like now could be or might not be gay. "

 

sweetie, if you work the process that i am describing, you will know what's right every time... if this guy is gay, you will have spent so much time examining him that you will know at some point... we cannot hide our cute gay selves forever, and i don't care what anybody says... once you sharpen your internal examining tools, this will be all you need to eventually discover his sexual preference. if you fall in love with a guy and then discover he is gay, you didn't do enough work on yourself so that you could see that red flag.

 

and that brings up an important point - and i hope others read this:

 

falling in love is easy. i could fall in love all the time when i was not healthy and did not see myself with clarity and value... because i was searching for the wrong thing and i wasn't seeing myself or my object of affection clearly... so if you jump from guy to guy and/or if you obsess about a guy and the obsession includes constantly talking to your friends about where he is or what he is doing or, and this is my favorite,

 

"does he like me?"

 

you are on the wrong path. you are on the wrong path like liza minelli and david guest wrong path. like a junkie with a bad drug habit wrong path. it just ain't the way it works.

 

"does he meet any of my expectations?"

"does he show signs of a potential life partner?"

"does he continue to pass my critical eye tests?"

"does he make my head happy?"

 

BINGO. and i assure you - if he makes your head happy, he (or she) will make your heart happy.

 

 

let's look at something else you said...

 

"My friends are the worst for guy problems. Every week they are crying. It makes ya feel soo bad. The thing is sometimes its the guys fault and sometimes it is the girls fault."

 

i am so glad you said this because you bring up another important point.

 

this "red flag" process i keep yappin' about is not exclusive for your search for a life partner... it is for everyone in your life. friends, family, business connections, everyone. including examining yourself. and like i said - it is a process and folks better get to work on learning this process now because it can save you in all areas of your life...

 

yes, un-evolved females are the worst for other females when it comes to advice - and i see it every time i am on this board... some of the responses females give other females make me want to jump outta my youthful, vibrant, haven't-aged-a-day-since-birth skin. imagine me trying to hold my forked tongue when i see these chicks go in every direction other than the right one as they attempt to help another babe in trouble... and i have seen enough chicks over the years and how they interact about guys. Here’s how so many females grow up:

 

"girl, what i would do is talk to his friends to see if he likes you and then i think you need to surprise him at work and tell him you like him and one day i had a friend who thought this guy was real cute and so she wrote him a note and put some lipstick on her lips and kissed the bottom like she was sealing it with a kiss and i thought that was sooooooooo romantic and then she stuck it under his car windshield and waited for him to leave work to see how he reacted and then my friend told me to call one of his friends to see if he had said anything about the note and anyway have you seen billy and that new shirt he has not the green one but the red one he wore when i saw him with andy and me and missy were at the mall but they didn't have any sales that were good but oh my god this guy was so hot and i think he likes me because he looked at me twice no six times and blah blah blah blah blah blah....

 

and the older the female, the more toned down it becomes but it is still the same useless dribble.

 

"well, if i were you, i would leave him. no man should treat you that way. but maybe if you told him how you feel, he would get better. i think he needs counseling."

 

well well well... that's just what a female in an emotionally abusive relationship needs to hear. just leave him. and you will be fine.

 

just leave him and find another one just like him, cause that's what females do when they don't know what the heck they are doing....

 

and what did i say earlier? "if you jump from guy to guy..." oh.

 

so have fun with your friends, but if they are not on this red flag/value/expectations process i keep talking about, their advice is like me in a mechanic's garage - totally useless.

 

and you said this:

 

What happens if you really think you like the person and you think that person is good for you, but how would you really know so you don't go through all the miserable days."

 

sweet pea, i hope by now you will read this question and know that if you think you like a person, there is a ton of work to do before you think that person is good for you. i am glad you brought this up because it is a clear example of why this process i keep hounding everybody about is so important.

 

you don't meet a person and like them and think that person is good for you. you may consider this, but then your internal tools should kick in and you should be like a robot - programmed to examine and explore and look at them with a critical eye.

 

that, angel, is how you don't go through all the miserable days.

 

 

let's look at your last comment:

 

"I have a problem with jealousy. Only when he's flirting with other girls I get jealous."

 

hmmm... sure looks like someone is focusing on the wrong thing, doesn't it. if you have time to be jealous, you aren't doing what you need to be doing, and if this emotion crops up, your value is not high enough, so forget about guys right now, because you don't have enough self-esteem and value to be goin’ on a manhunt.

 

and these are red flags that tell you that your value is not high enough - remember when i said earlier that the technique of spotting red flags was for everyone, including yourself? here's a great example - your emotions and actions will tell you where your value lies on the shelving unit of your life. jealousy, misplaced anger, obsession, focusing on the wrong things, etc.... all these things should be seen as a way to monitor your own value and self-worth. so if you are jealous, drop that focus and revert back to building your self-esteem...

 

cause you wanna be on the top shelf. higher than the other shelves. cause you want to look at men and examine whether or not they can reach you up there.

 

and you can build your self-esteem many ways - pull out your expectation sheet and review it and add to it ... find a mentor who can, like i am trying to do, keep you focused on the important stuff... email me if you want to and tell me how you are feeling and i will respond accordingly... define your strengths as a woman and look at your weaknesses... Get to know yourself better... there are many ways, and one of my favorites is to volunteer for the less fortunate - give yourself and your time to those who need assistance - it will bring things into perspective and your silly head games that lead to jealousy will become painfully obvious.

 

and just so you know, i didn't find my right man until i practiced exactly what i preach to you and so many others... and sweetie, take it from me. if you really want a man who will curl your toes, do all that i am saying and i assure you - at some point in your future, you will experience what i am experiencing - and it is amazing.

 

so now you see where my passion comes from - i have lived this... and i kept working and working on myself until my value became so high that i did everything right in my search and i kept skipping the bad eggs until i found a good egg... and when i was least expecting it, the right man became clear to me... and i had been studying him for months with a critical eye. and he met my expectations and he saw my value. and he saw this value because it was familiar to him - he had taken the steps to ensure that he had value, too. so he was on the same journey i was on... and once you get on this journey, you will become more assured that there is someone out there on the same journey as you... and you will meet him... and as it becomes clearer and clearer that your expectations are being met, you will discover that he is right in front of you. And you will experience a joy that only a healthy, strong relationship can bring.

 

and i have seen my str8 male and female friends do the same thing, and it works.

 

so i don't say "good luck" to you... luck has nothing to do with it.

 

i say, "get to work" and take the steps necessary to ensure a healthy relationship.

 

these steps are the most important steps one will ever take.

 

and you deserve nothing less.

[advicegirl]

Thanks. I am getting better at the jealous thing. I haven't been jealous. I took your advice. I also am sharing the things you told me with my friends and they like your advice too. Good Job!!! Sorry that my messages are short. I am only aloud on for soo long. Thanks again for the advice, it has been a great help.

I probably will print off the stuff you said. I like the thing where you said that you should look for the qualities. Thanks again!

advicegirl

[Bobbie]

i kept working and working on myself until my value became so high that i did everything right in my search and i kept skipping the bad eggs until i found a good egg... and when i was least expecting it, the right man became clear to me... and i had been studying him for months with a critical eye. and he met my expectations and he saw my value. and he saw this value because it was familiar to him - he had taken the steps to ensure that he had value, too. so he was on the same journey i was on... and once you get on this journey, you will become more assured that there is someone out there on the same journey as you... and you will meet him... and as it becomes clearer and clearer that your expectations are being met, you will discover that he is right in front of you. And you will experience a joy that only a healthy, strong relationship can bring.

 

great post RFRick.

 

You are so right about this filtering thing- so many times I met someone and immediately started to filter out things which would never work in a million years for me ( sexism is the big one here in the Southern States, and dodgy religion and politics! and spitting...what is it with those guys who greb-up every few minutes??? Euggggh )

 

I'd much rather be on my own than in a relationship which doesn't work, it's soul-destroying for both people.

[KK'sLove]

I was in this situation....BECAREFUL! You need to read this...

 

My last relationship was with a guy that I had been close friends with for 3 years. I fell in love with him the moment we met and we clicked like nothing I had ever felt before. He had a girlfriend and we messed around a few times.

 

Well, through the years, I too had boyfriends and he would get jealous and so on. We were very close he would come and stay at my place with my boyfriend (we were completely friends) However, he always knew how I felt and I thought he felt the same because he would make sexual comments and flirt with me always. Last November we were both single and I convinced him that I thougth he was the love of my life and we started to date. We spent 4 months together, we live in different states but he would drive up from Fl on the weekends and moved to NY in January (I live in Ohio). Anyway, we would spent weeks together and when he moved to NY I saw him all the time. The last month he started to pull away from me and eventually broke up with me. I didn't know why, we were perfect together.

 

I found out the next day from a friend of his that became a friend of mine over the time period that my ex was GAY! I didn't believe him, my ex had absolutely no gay tendacies...and he had a girlfriend when I met him. It was all a lie and a front because he was embarrassed of being gay. I confronted him that night and he confessed that yes, he is gay and I said why would you do this to me. He said that he really loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and that he thought he could be straight with me because I'm who he wanted. (By the way, we never had sex because he became very religious right before we started to date and he wanted to wait till marriage because he was afraid God would curse this relationship if we did anything before hand...this is a huge sign, not that I knew it then but it is). He said that he had to try to be with me and that it worked in the beginning but in the end he realized that he would be miserable if he stayed with me and he would eventually make me miserable.

 

We are currently best friends and still talk everyday, well not on the weekends, I had to tell him to stop calling me from his boyfriend's house because it was killing me. I have never in my life been so devastated from a relationship (I was with guy prior for 7 1/2 years, then another for 1 1/2 years both wanted to marry me) but this pain was different and still is. I loved him for 3 years and felt like I was the luckiest girl in the world that this gorgeous man who is perfect (and I mean perfect) in every way choose to be with me. I still to this day and we broke up 2 months ago, cry over him and what I believe could of been. We still tell each other that we love each other but it has to be in another way.

 

Anyway, in the end, what I'm saying to you is....becareful, there are men out there that are gay and will play straight because they feel they need to. And don't force anything with this guy because the pain in the end is so severe that I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what I'm still dealing with.