A Different Story

[hissunshine]

For the 2 years you were with him when she was cancer free, why didn't he divorce then? If he truly is in love with you, he could have chosen to leave and divorce when she was in remission. I'm just sayin'..

 

We have only been together 5 months. We got together when it was thought she was cancer free - before the diagnosis.

 

Oh and for the record, I guess I mispoke when I said "prize." That was not the right choice of words. I am not going to be happy when she dies and there certainly will be no celebration.

[waytogo]

We have only been together 5 months. We got together when it was thought she was cancer free - before the diagnosis.

 

Oh and for the record, I guess I mispoke when I said "prize." That was not the right choice of words. I am not going to be happy when she dies and there certainly will be no celebration.

 

I'd say you did misspeak of a prize, unless his seeking another on the side if you were ill is what you call a prize. If you think it'd be great to be treated, as he treats her even during illness, keep going. If there's another consideration you wouled want, you should find someone else, just in case it's you that';s] sick one day

[SidLyon]

FYI, many of us are former OW, so suggest that you not lump everyone in one group.

 

Just change every "OW" reference to read "OW and fOW".

 

My point was supposed to be that the degrees of betrayal are not as important as the fact that it's all betrayal.

 

It wasn't supposed to be an attack on OW.

 

It's actually quite similar to the BWs who say "oh my H had an affair and we've stayed together but I never would have stayed if he's done X".

 

X being such things as:

 

- used the marital bed.

- speculated about being with the OW after the BW died.

- had multiple OW.

- had multiple d-days.

- told the OW he loved her.

 

All the things above are common and contribute to the betrayal in an affair. They're not necessarily a reason (in my view) to distinguish between what is wrong and even more wrong.

 

This is my opinion only and not meant to be an attack on either OW or BW who have said this. I understand the sentiment all too well, as sometimes it's hard to find one's self-respect in all the mess of infidelity and it's easy to think "well I wouldn't have stood for that..."

 

Sometimes we (whether BW/OW or fBW/fOW) find that we did in fact "stand for that" and we got over it anyway.

[whichwayisup]

We have only been together 5 months. We got together when it was thought she was cancer free - before the diagnosis.

 

Oh and for the record, I guess I mispoke when I said "prize." That was not the right choice of words. I am not going to be happy when she dies and there certainly will be no celebration.QUOTE]

 

He is an idiot. 5 months in, neither of you have invested tons into eachother. It's all still new. It's not like this has been going on for 3 years and now this has happened. 5 months is not long at all, so not saying it'll be easy or painful but think about how much time invested in him vs what he has with his wife and kids. I don't believe he was ever going to divorce her, I think he wants you to believe that though.

 

Just my 2 cents, but you should back off and leave him alone to deal with his wife and kids, extended family.

 

Bolded part. the thing is, hate to say it, but is it because of other people's posts that has made you back track on what you said, or did you truly use the wrong wording?

 

Bottomline is, if you two want a 'fair' go at this, and want to start off on the right foot, you have to end it and allow him to be with his family and once she passes away, leave him be too. He's vunerable and not thinking straight, not making good decisions due to what's going on. I hope you see this? The rest of his family will think of you as a vulture, waiting in the wings if you continue to stay in his life during this process and the after process. HE should do therapy to help him cope with the loss and how to be a single parent. His kids will come first, remember that..

[MissBee]

I agree...isn't Spark's story what we all really want in a partner? Someone who will be there in sickness and in health?

 

As was said upthread - when someone shows you who he is, believe him.

OP, this is how this man deals with difficulty. It sounds to me like he's just terrified of being alone when his wife dies - and so he's lining someone (you) up so that he doesn't have to be. I am really not saying that out of cruelty or anger; but the fact that he wanted to leave her when she got sick is extremely telling. This is not a do-right guy. This is not a man you can count on. This is a man who is looking for someone to take away his pain for him, because he can't face it himself. This is a coward.

 

Is that really what you want for yourself?? Wouldn't you rather find someone who has a solid core of courage and strength, and demonstrates that through his actions every day?

 

Excellent post!

 

Spark's story is beautiful

 

I agree and have said that, I do get that people are not perfect, I have never expressed any other belief; however, there are do-right people and men of merit in the world and I am striving to be a woman of merit as well. Therefore, for me, I aspire to a partner like Ellen's, like my aunt's husband, like others I have seen for myself who are honest, courageous, compassionate and not self-serving, who when it is easy to do the wrong thing, they take the road less traveled and do the right thing! I don't want a man I have to make excuses for and have to explain his less than upstanding behavior to others or have to justify my dealings with him. I agree they are not a dime a dozen, and that's okay, as I am not a woman who is a dime a dozen either

 

Anyway, I am a firm believer in believing someone when they show you who they are. Do I think you should stop dating them? Well...depending on what you want. The point is for you to see how they handle situations, observe the life they have, observe the things they are doing when NOT trying to impress you, look at the good, bad and ugly without goggles and decide if that is what you can live with. If yes, then continue. But when someone shows you who they are and you choose not to see it or proceed anyway, then that is your own doing.

[hissunshine]

We have only been together 5 months. We got together when it was thought she was cancer free - before the diagnosis.

 

Oh and for the record, I guess I mispoke when I said "prize." That was not the right choice of words. I am not going to be happy when she dies and there certainly will be no celebration.QUOTE]

 

He is an idiot. 5 months in, neither of you have invested tons into eachother. It's all still new. It's not like this has been going on for 3 years and now this has happened. 5 months is not long at all, so not saying it'll be easy or painful but think about how much time invested in him vs what he has with his wife and kids. I don't believe he was ever going to divorce her, I think he wants you to believe that though.

 

Just my 2 cents, but you should back off and leave him alone to deal with his wife and kids, extended family.

 

Bolded part. the thing is, hate to say it, but is it because of other people's posts that has made you back track on what you said, or did you truly use the wrong wording?

 

Bottomline is, if you two want a 'fair' go at this, and want to start off on the right foot, you have to end it and allow him to be with his family and once she passes away, leave him be too. He's vunerable and not thinking straight, not making good decisions due to what's going on. I hope you see this? The rest of his family will think of you as a vulture, waiting in the wings if you continue to stay in his life during this process and the after process. HE should do therapy to help him cope with the loss and how to be a single parent. His kids will come first, remember that..

 

When I used the word prize, it implied that I was "winning" something. That is not at all what I meant. IMO, we are truly perfect for each other. We are so compatible in every way, it is scary. The way he makes me feel is unlike anything I have ever felt. I have never had a guy love me the way he does. So the "prize" I was referring to was a relationship, a marriage, with my perfect guy. It really was the wrong choice of words and I should have clarified it the first time someone pointed it out. Some of the posts on here are very hard to read because they are very cruel. Many people have attacked me and passed judgement and it really is hard for someone to put themselves in someone else's shoes unless they have walked a mile in them. On the other hand, many people have respectfully pointed out some things that I had not considered. In those cases, I did not feel judged but supported which is the reason why I posted my story in the first place.

[hissunshine]

Sorry a reply was posted twice.

Edited August 10, 2011 by hissunshine
double posting

[Spark1111]

 

When I used the word prize, it implied that I was "winning" something. That is not at all what I meant. IMO, we are truly perfect for each other. We are so compatible in every way, it is scary. The way he makes me feel is unlike anything I have ever felt. I have never had a guy love me the way he does. So the "prize" I was referring to was a relationship, a marriage, with my perfect guy. It really was the wrong choice of words and I should have clarified it the first time someone pointed it out. Some of the posts on here are very hard to read because they are very cruel. Many people have attacked me and passed judgement and it really is hard for someone to put themselves in someone else's shoes unless they have walked a mile in them. On the other hand, many people have respectfully pointed out some things that I had not considered. In those cases, I did not feel judged but supported which is the reason why I posted my story in the first place.

 

Look, if YOU truly love this man, encourage, no INSIST, he be the very best man he can be now for his wife!

 

Put all selfish self=interest aside, and tell him you wish him well, his road is hard, but he needs to give 150 percent to his wife and children NOW.

 

Otherwise, he may never forgive himself and therefore, never forgive you.

 

Take the high road and end it, not only for his self-respect, but for your's too.

 

If you two are meant to be, you will be, with your head held high. No more affair. Be a phone friend, offer support and kindness like any friend.

 

But no more affair. Not if you ever hope to have a future built on respect.

[Silly_Girl]

Just change every "OW" reference to read "OW and fOW".

 

My point was supposed to be that the degrees of betrayal are not as important as the fact that it's all betrayal.

 

It wasn't supposed to be an attack on OW.

 

It's actually quite similar to the BWs who say "oh my H had an affair and we've stayed together but I never would have stayed if he's done X".

 

X being such things as:

 

- used the marital bed.

- speculated about being with the OW after the BW died.

- had multiple OW.

- had multiple d-days.

- told the OW he loved her.

 

All the things above are common and contribute to the betrayal in an affair. They're not necessarily a reason (in my view) to distinguish between what is wrong and even more wrong.

 

This is my opinion only and not meant to be an attack on either OW or BW who have said this. I understand the sentiment all too well, as sometimes it's hard to find one's self-respect in all the mess of infidelity and it's easy to think "well I wouldn't have stood for that..."

 

Sometimes we (whether BW/OW or fBW/fOW) find that we did in fact "stand for that" and we got over it anyway.

 

I'm really glad you posted this. It covers some thoughts I've had across 2 or 3 threads where OW and BS are very dismissive of a behaviour in a given scenario, as you describe, but really, unless we set up a league table of sh.it.ty things people might do in affairs, and rank them all, it doesn't really make much odds. In their scenario they may have suffered something I personally would rank as 'worse' but just because that's not being discussed it's forgotten.

[Spark1111]

I'm really glad you posted this. It covers some thoughts I've had across 2 or 3 threads where OW and BS are very dismissive of a behaviour in a given scenario, as you describe, but really, unless we set up a league table of sh.it.ty things people might do in affairs, and rank them all, it doesn't really make much odds. In their scenario they may have suffered something I personally would rank as 'worse' but just because that's not being discussed it's forgotten.

 

Brilliant insight, SG!

 

What devastates me may not even be a blip in your radar. What insults you to the core could possible roll right off my back.

 

Pain, and how it is perceived, is highly subjective.

[whichwayisup]

When I used the word prize, it implied that I was "winning" something. That is not at all what I meant. IMO, we are truly perfect for each other. We are so compatible in every way, it is scary. The way he makes me feel is unlike anything I have ever felt. I have never had a guy love me the way he does. So the "prize" I was referring to was a relationship, a marriage, with my perfect guy.

 

But what's it based on? Please give that some thought. Aside from emotional deep feelings in an affair. You seem to be there for him and very involved in his life, is he in yours? Just seems one sided.. All about him.

 

It really was the wrong choice of words and I should have clarified it the first time someone pointed it out. Some of the posts on here are very hard to read because they are very cruel. Many people have attacked me and passed judgement and it really is hard for someone to put themselves in someone else's shoes unless they have walked a mile in them. On the other hand, many people have respectfully pointed out some things that I had not considered. In those cases, I did not feel judged but supported which is the reason why I posted my story in the first place.

 

How many of your friends, collegues, family members know of your situation? The affair, MM's wife dying, the fact that they also have children..? Have you told them? If not, why?

 

On an online forum you're going to get all kinds of advice and reaction, depending on who is posting and where they are in their life. And you'll also get people who come by and reply who aren't part of an affair triangle at all.. It's a mix. Take the good with the bad and try not to take it personally.. Just like in "offline" life, you get all kinds. Harsher replies yet said with respect are good reality checks, as you've said you've gotten some stuff you hadn't considered..As for the ruder responses, put your wall up and focus on what you get out of posting here..

[SidLyon]

I'm really glad you posted this. It covers some thoughts I've had across 2 or 3 threads where OW and BS are very dismissive of a behaviour in a given scenario, as you describe, but really, unless we set up a league table of sh.it.ty things people might do in affairs, and rank them all, it doesn't really make much odds. In their scenario they may have suffered something I personally would rank as 'worse' but just because that's not being discussed it's forgotten.

 

Exactly Silly Girl and Spark.

 

I'm not sure if this is a t/j but here's my list in order of relative heinousness of potential behaviour by my H. Obviously it comes from a perspective as a BW but I can imagine fOW/OW could arrive at a similar list:

 

- sex with a prepubescent child

- sex with a legal child who is post pubescent.

- affair(s) with a man/men

- affairs with my mother, sister, best friend

- sex with sex workers

- multiple d-days with different women

- multiple affairs with different women

- multiple d-days with same OW

 

Disrespectful behaviour such as fantasies about me dying, or them sailing off into the sunset, or "ILYs" to OW, or sex in the marital bed are more in the nature of horrible detail to me.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Even if his story is true (and being a BC survivor myself, his story doesn't sound like it entirely adds up in some places) - if/when she dies it isn't going to be the days of wine and roses like you think. You have a greater chance of winning every lottery in the US simultaneously than you do ending up with a 'happily ever after' with this guy regardless of what happens with his wife. If you have a chance at happiness somewhere else - take it while you still have chances at happiness.

[Kitsune77]

She has been cancer free for almost 2 years when he came after me. He is still going to every single appointment with her and will be there 24/7 until she dies. If anything, I am the one that is being treated "baddly" right now. I don't come first right now, that is for sure. He has cancelled many dates with me because of her health.

 

So what happens when a guy falls out of love with his wife and in love with an OW? People fall in and out of love everyday. People get divorced everyday, sometimes because of OP and sometimes not. This is a guy that was very willing to do the right thing and leave W. He would have been gone within a 2 or 3 months had the situation been different. But instead of doing what he wanted, he made the only choice he could? I understand what you are all saying but maybe you should think about the big picture instead of focusing on the dying W. My actions have absolutely no positive or negative impact on her health.

My ex, s wife struggled with a brain tumor for 4 years. The marriage was not in good shape before she was diagnosed, and both of them had slept with other people. When he found out that what she had was inoperable, he did everything he could to make her happy( built her the dream home she wanted) and looked at every alternative therapy to try and cure her. She gave him the legal power to turn the machine off if she went into a coma, which is what happened, she died in his arms.

I gather they were probably still sleeping with others through this, the romantic love may have died, but the love and care they felt for each other as people, stayed.

I met him a year later, and he was still quit cut up about it, even though he had said if she hadn't gotten sick, they would have divorced.

OP, as someone who had a relationship with a bereaved partner( luckily not with young children) there are difficulties to face. The spouse sort of becomes a saint( not saying she's not a good woman) and as the woman who cones after, you are often compared.

You obviously know your MM better than anyone else on this forum, so please trust your instincts.

I think it may be difficult, but these situations are not set in stone. Good luck:) *hugs*

[Kitsune77]

Thanks Spark. These are all things I had not thought of because I am so wrapped up in this. I guess that is why I posted my story. I need a different view point than my own.

 

OP, in regards to baggage, we all have it. All my girlfriends said " Baggage alert!!!don't get with your ex.dead wife, infidelty,he'll never marry you".

 

Well he did have baggage, was unfaithful, and continually wanted to marry me for 12 years. It was one of the most honest, real, truly loving relationships I have ever had, and I learnt more about the nature of love , understanding, and friendship than ever before. For the record, I left him, not due to any of the above things. I still love, admire and respect him.

Please , your man does sound like a good man, and none if us are in his shoes, just don't put your life on hold.

Ps, my affair started the same as yours, one difference is neither of us expects anything more.

[SidLyon]

Hmm - I heard the Yonnies are onto this thread. Hardly surprising.

[awkward]

Am I doing the right thing?

 

The right thing according to whom? When you ask yourself this question, what does your gut tell you? Have you asked your MM this question?

 

Guard your heart OP.

[Silly_Girl]

Hmm - I heard the Yonnies are onto this thread. Hardly surprising.

 

No, but they see what they want to see anyway...

[ufo8mycat]

Please , your man does sound like a good man, and none if us are in his shoes, just don't put your life on hold.

 

I have read this thread with interest as someone that was worked extensively with patients with end stage disease. It has been interesting. I am an interloper so I don't have a huge amount to add.

 

Yet I fail to understand what makes the OP's MM a "good man"

 

He sounds like a total jerk to me. I have met with plenty of patients who want to know their SO will find happiness after their passing. It varies from broad discussion to specifially identifying potential future partners.

 

But I look at this relationship (by what has been posted) and my first thought?

 

Don't get sick. Really. Don't get sick, this guys seems pretty fairweather.

 

For the OP, take advice, your MM has shown you who he is. What is stopping you from being in his wifes position?

[mzdolphin]

I don't understand how you can consider anything that comes from this a "prize". This guy will never trust you. Might even despise you. There will be guilt always.

 

They have to leave on their own. That is the only way you know that it was the marriage that was falling apart and not you that was wrecking it. The MM I was involved with lied about his marital status. We met and dated years ago when we were both single. I was young and left him because of a career move. We became reacquainted 20 years later. He lives apart from his wife now, but they are still married. Even with all that history, even with him living apart. Even with him saying he loves me, I demand that he be divorced if we are to have any attempt at a future. Notice I said attempt. Because it's not just about the guy being married. It's about them not being finished with a relationship. Even a single man needs to end things with one before starting with another.

[Capris]

Hi.

 

I can't believe all this hate talk. What makes any affair moral?Seriously.

Nothing. All of us here are far from moral to start with, yet we cope with it and dress it with pretty things, to make it look good.

 

How dare you not understand what Sunshine is going through?

First thing i try to remember in here is that i do not know who im talking to. Being the OW is for alot of people, just sex. Most of the MM are liars and are in it also just for the sex. For some in here, its more. Yes, the "my MM is different" HAS some truth in it. Why leave sunshine out? cause cancer hit the door?you think she likes it? You seriously think she is hoping for the W to die?

 

Take a deep breath and think what would you do if all of sudden you were in a place like this...run like hell? Seriously? You would let "the love of your life" "the man that understands me the most", "the best thing that ever happened to me" or whatever you are calling him....get through this alone?? If you would run like hell and never come back, then think again about what kind of Affair you are in...

 

Sunshine, im sure you are torn in this situation. Some people although cruel, did point out some things you should watch out for. Id advise you to give him the time he needs to take care of his wife. Do not make contact with him, let him contact you. Do not visit the hospital or anything, stay away from his life unless he contacts you. Sometimes even when he contacts you, say no. You will know when its not right. You may want to be right next to him AND his wife through this difficult time, but trust me you cant, as much as it hurts.

 

If everything goes bad, i really wish it wont, you must still keep your distance. MM would be grieving...for a long long time. His grief will have nothing to do with you, its his grief and his kids grief, again as much as you would like to help...you cant. Note that a grieving process like this takes a very very long time. If a MM (or anyone) deserves to be selfish its during times like this. He may want to rush it with you, say no. A grieving person can not make life changing decisions, so dont support them at first. Do not run into his arms and marry him or anything. Even if a marriage ends with a divorce (wish it was in this situation:/) i dont find it wise for one to rush into marriage.

 

 

 

If you have a friend who knows about you two and is supportive, you will need him/her. If you dont have one, find one. Although the one who is having a hard time in this situation is the wife, MM+kids, in that order, you must take care of yourself.

 

Conclusion, stay as far away as possible, dont forget that MM is going through hell right now, so try to help him not do anything he will regret later on. like:

 

*DO NOT TELL THE WIFE* I dont get it, why ruin her ending life like that?....People say "be honest dont let her die in a lie". Do you think, in her situation, sick, feeling awful 24/7, thinking her life is ending at such a young age, leaving 2 kids behind and much much more...she would like to know that her husband is being unfaithful???? Sometimes honesty is a bad way to go...

 

Also, try to keep in mind that all the conversations you two are having about the future may not be true, not cause of him lying or anything, but if things do not end well...death changes people. You are making these convos while she is still alive. HUGE difference.

 

Best wishes for recovery to the W, and i wish for you ,sunshine, to make the right everyday choices. You are going through a hard time, i wish you make it through with as less scars as you can get.

[NoIDidn't]

Hi.

 

I can't believe all this hate talk. What makes any affair moral?Seriously.

Nothing. All of us here are far from moral to start with, yet we cope with it and dress it with pretty things, to make it look good.

 

How dare you not understand what Sunshine is going through?

First thing i try to remember in here is that i do not know who im talking to. Being the OW is for alot of people, just sex. Most of the MM are liars and are in it also just for the sex. For some in here, its more. Yes, the "my MM is different" HAS some truth in it. Why leave sunshine out? cause cancer hit the door?you think she likes it? You seriously think she is hoping for the W to die?

 

Take a deep breath and think what would you do if all of sudden you were in a place like this...run like hell? Seriously? You would let "the love of your life" "the man that understands me the most", "the best thing that ever happened to me" or whatever you are calling him....get through this alone?? If you would run like hell and never come back, then think again about what kind of Affair you are in...

 

Sunshine, im sure you are torn in this situation. Some people although cruel, did point out some things you should watch out for. Id advise you to give him the time he needs to take care of his wife. Do not make contact with him, let him contact you. Do not visit the hospital or anything, stay away from his life unless he contacts you. Sometimes even when he contacts you, say no. You will know when its not right. You may want to be right next to him AND his wife through this difficult time, but trust me you cant, as much as it hurts.

 

If everything goes bad, i really wish it wont, you must still keep your distance. MM would be grieving...for a long long time. His grief will have nothing to do with you, its his grief and his kids grief, again as much as you would like to help...you cant. Note that a grieving process like this takes a very very long time. If a MM (or anyone) deserves to be selfish its during times like this. He may want to rush it with you, say no. A grieving person can not make life changing decisions, so dont support them at first. Do not run into his arms and marry him or anything. Even if a marriage ends with a divorce (wish it was in this situation:/) i dont find it wise for one to rush into marriage.

 

 

 

If you have a friend who knows about you two and is supportive, you will need him/her. If you dont have one, find one. Although the one who is having a hard time in this situation is the wife, MM+kids, in that order, you must take care of yourself.

 

Conclusion, stay as far away as possible, dont forget that MM is going through hell right now, so try to help him not do anything he will regret later on. like:

 

*DO NOT TELL THE WIFE* I dont get it, why ruin her ending life like that?....People say "be honest dont let her die in a lie". Do you think, in her situation, sick, feeling awful 24/7, thinking her life is ending at such a young age, leaving 2 kids behind and much much more...she would like to know that her husband is being unfaithful???? Sometimes honesty is a bad way to go...

 

Also, try to keep in mind that all the conversations you two are having about the future may not be true, not cause of him lying or anything, but if things do not end well...death changes people. You are making these convos while she is still alive. HUGE difference.

 

Best wishes for recovery to the W, and i wish for you ,sunshine, to make the right everyday choices. You are going through a hard time, i wish you make it through with as less scars as you can get.

 

Not sure what to make of this post. Really.

 

How dare people express their disgust for the situation? I've yet to see anyone seriously insult sunshine, they've passed judgment on her MM.

 

I'm sorry, but sunshine isn't dying from cancer, I fail to see how she is actually suffering anything "hard". She can walk away from this and allow him the space to care for his W, the one doing the actual suffering. And maybe even the MM is suffering too as caregivers tend to do. But the OW isn't suffering, she's waiting. Big difference.

 

I do agree that the end that she hopes for may not come, but not for him lying, but because he can't know how his grief is going to affect him.

[Capris]

Not sure what to make of this post. Really.

 

How dare people express their disgust for the situation? I've yet to see anyone seriously insult sunshine, they've passed judgment on her MM.

 

I'm sorry, but sunshine isn't dying from cancer, I fail to see how she is actually suffering anything "hard". She can walk away from this and allow him the space to care for his W, the one doing the actual suffering. And maybe even the MM is suffering too as caregivers tend to do. But the OW isn't suffering, she's waiting. Big difference.

 

I do agree that the end that she hopes for may not come, but not for him lying, but because he can't know how his grief is going to affect him.

 

I have to admit i was in a bad mood, so the "how dare" does come a bit too much, but i can say that she has had some responces that don't fit in the polite category. Sorry for being too harsh with the "how dare", but still i cant understand how some OW cannot relate.

 

She is suffering something hard, of course i can not compare it to what the W and H is going trough, but if she loves him, trust me, its hard on her too. "Waiting" for someone to die, isnt an easy situation, unless we're talking about serial killers. Gosh even the phrase "waiting for someone to die" is cruel. Im sure sunshine or any OW in this situaion, would never wish something like this.

 

Being an OW, normally the "best" end to the situation is a divorce and even thats something bad. In this case....lord....sunshine's feelings must be ripped in two.

 

Again the only thing i can wish for is a possible recover and for sunshine to come through with out too many scars.

[Capris]

@hissunshine

I was trying to send you a private message but you are a new member, so please send me a message, i assume i can reply to a message from a "newbie" right girls?

 

Take care all!

[whichwayisup]

 

Also, try to keep in mind that all the conversations you two are having about the future may not be true, not cause of him lying or anything, but if things do not end well...death changes people. You are making these convos while she is still alive. HUGE difference.

This more or less sums it up.