Any guy's familiar with my story?

[didntseeit]

We've been together 10 years, married 9 next week, 2 kids. H had PA affair two years ago that I tricked myself into thinking I could handle it. See a therapist twice and said OK! So afterwards was bad. I tried and tried.

 

5 months ago I noticied the same behaviours in my H as when I caught him before. I kept asking him about it, wanting to see his phone, email etc. Of course it was always erased so that I wouldnt take it the wrong way. I finally saw his chat logs with this OW he works with. He was definetly pursuing her. I asked him about it, not revealing I had some the chats, and he gave me the "just a friend I cant talk to" speech.

 

When he came home from his last trip, we had great sex, I told him I was excited about seeing him again, and he seemed good. But then he started glueing the phone to his ear. Now it had a passcode on it too.

 

Anyway, he was texting her, calling her while at home with me. I contacted her and ask her to stop talking to him and she did for awhile. That of course made him angry that he said he wanted separation and the divorce word also came up too. I asked him to give her up as a friend and he refused. I called and spoke to his mom, and after he talked to her, he came to me and said whatever I want. MC, give her up...soon he changed into the monster again said he needs to separate because he doesnt know what he wants.

 

Fast forward two weeks, he moved out and took his clothes. He wanted space so I backed off. I started the 180 because being nice didnt work. At first he didnt call the kids much, so I made them call him and he would ask if I wanted to talk to him, I always said no. He got mad at me for that. He started texting so I kept it short and polite and never right away.

So now he thinks if I want to talk that I can pick up the phone and call just as easily as he can.

 

We havent talked about our situation at all. He says he just doesn't know, how long he wants to separate, when he can take the kids, he did say he would continue to see the therapist with me but due to work he missed the last two appointments.

 

I finally broke down and when he called last night I said we need to get together and talk. He said about what? I said this situation. I need to know something. I cannot sit in silence without any direction as to what you are thinking. Dead silence on the phone. He doesnt want to talk but will try to get with me in the next few days. (traveling)

 

I dont know whether to be positive or on guard. He says he is not dating. He cant tell me anything else.

 

All opinions are welcome. Sorry for the length.

[BrettLost]

Didntseeit,

 

From my experience he is cheating, or at the very least setting up an escape plan. U said he has cheated once before and u dealt with it.

 

The fact he cannot sit down with u and discuss any resolve to the situation ur marriage is in, is a clear sign he might not want it to be fixed. My ex wife did the same, made excuses NOT to have an adult discussion about where it was all going.

 

Seems it could be very similar to stories round here, keeps u hangin on, while he pursues option b). When u say he trys to "get with u", u mean sex yes? So he's off emotionally with someone else, yet physically he has u to fall back on? Correct? Sounds very selfish indeed.

 

He needs to man the f#ck up, especially if there is kids involved and set u straight on what he wants.

[didntseeit]

Hi Brettlost.

 

I know he is having an emotional affair, but I know I caught it before it went physical. The OW he's messing with is single, works for him, and told him it couldnt go anywhere but he kept pursueing her. After a week of no contact, she gave in and started talking to him again. This time I wrote her and threaten to go to her boss. That just pissed him off more.

 

I think the reason he doesnt want to sit down and talk about why he is so furious with me is because he doesn't want me to hate him and bash him to our kids. When I first contacted her, he became the devil. He was mad that she stopped talking to him and because I asked her to stop. Afterall she is just a friend.

 

After he moved out I asked him 5 questions. How long are we separating? Two weeks, 2 months? I asked for a time, not set in stone but to re-evaluated when the time came up. I asked him when he would take the kids, I suggested 2x a week and all day Sunday. Interaction with me? I told him I had mixed feelings on this. Maybe we shouldnt talk unless it is about the kids or we are with the therapist. I asked about counseling and he said he would go to the appt with me each Monday. Then I asked him about dating or exploring options. He said he wasnt going to do that. He couldnt answer these when I first asked. They were all suggested by me except the MC, that was his idea. I kept getting the "I dont knows" so I told him what I wanted.

 

It has been 4 weeks since I outed him and 2 weeks since he moved out. He still texts me and calls so I have been trying to act happy and talk a little about what the kids and I did. When he came to the house this last week before his trip, he hugged me and said I'm sorry. I wasnt sure why but at the moment I felt relief then fear.

 

He did sext me while gone this time. He still says I'll call you later sweetie, or bye sweetie, and I don't know if it is a conscious decision or habit. He doesnt say it every time.

Edited August 7, 2011 by didntseeit

[itllgetbetter]

Didntseeit: I'm sorry that you're going through this. It's unfortunate that he's treating both you and the kids this way. It's good that you're such an observant woman to have recognized that something was going on, rather than ignore it.

 

I'm in a similar situation in that H moved out and says he doesn't know what he wants. If you have a few minutes, read the thread "I love you but I don't like you" which is what I originally posted. There's a lot of helpful advice on it. Also try reading other threads here as there are SO many similarities in many of the stories.

 

Seems like you're ahead of things by beginning the 180 so soon after he moved out - good for you. It really is a helpful tool.

 

Don't believe him when he says he's not dating. And even if that's correct, he's pursuing at least one other woman that you know of. He was doing that while he lived with you so why wouldn't he be doing that when he's alone? The 180 says "don't believe what you hear and less than 50% of what you see." That's bang on.

 

For example, my H's OW is a client of his. From time to time, my H takes clients to lunches, dinners, hockey games, etc. From Jan-May, I repeatedly said that I've never been concerned about those activities but what I was concerned about is if he's using those situations to develope a relationship with OW. He repeatedly assured me that that wasn't the case and it was all business.

 

Back in April, he went to dinner with OW after he'd concluded a case for her. Because I did his expense reports, I saw the receipt. Dinner came to almost $300 and included a $150 bottle of wine. When I asked him about it, he was quite rude. A few days later when he was going over his monthly client bills, he showed me her bill and said "doesn't that warrant a $150 bottle of wine?!"

 

Another time he told me that there were three people at a dinner (himself and 2 clients). When I found the receipt, there were only 2 meals ordered. His response when I discussed this with him was to say that the OW "only had bread". I recall thinking at the time "you must think I'm a complete idiot to believe that."

 

I can give you LOTS more examples of him lying but won't. Suffice it to say that when they know what they're doing is wrong, they won't be truthful about their activities/feelings.

 

However, just yesterday I found some of his handwritten notes about him essentially considering a life with her. I'm thankful that I found those notes because they helped me realize: (a) I wasn't going crazy when I was thinking he's up to something when he lived at home with me; (b) he's not the man I married who was honest and had integrity.

 

I'm a strong believer in working things out, ESPECIALLY when there are children involved. I read in your second post of this morning that your H was the one who suggested MC. That's definitely a step in the right direction.

 

Be prepared if and when you do discuss things with him that he may rewrite your marital history to the point where you'll wonder if he's talking about your M or someone else's (someone else posted that on my thread). And don't make the mistake and think "if only I'd done this, or that, we wouldn't be in this situation."

 

A LS member has on her closing line something along the lines of "I don't use other people's actions to justify my behavior". He's going to be looking for a way to justify his behavior and he may blame you for what he's doing - for example, if you'd paid more attention to him, he wouldn't have been flattered by the OW.

[didntseeit]

I may have said it wrong, but I suggested us both seeing therapist after he threw out the D word. I was a mess that day and saw the therapist that day. I suggested that he go by himself to figure out why he is so mad at me. I guess he went in there and told him that he wanted to end this marriage. Just full of rage. When we went to our first appointment together, all my husband wanted to talk about was separation. So the therapist agreed with him without any boundaries. I was now furious.

 

But I got online, went to the library and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.

 

I spoke to my H before he moved out and he said he didnt want a divorce but he wasnt sure he wanted to be married either. I will look for the post you recommended.

 

I am not in denial when it comes to my H and the OW. I know they are in contact if not on this same business trip together. But that isnt my focus, his actions are not my focus because I cannot control what he says to her.

 

He returns tomorrow and we were suppose to sit down and talk at my asking but now I am feeling it can wait a little longer as we had a pleasant conversation tonight. I am hoping that the 180 is working in part and that it is not my imagination.

 

Today I am numb. SO I can focus on my reactions. Yesterday I was a nut case and couldnt sit by and do nothing. Who knows about tomorrow.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[itllgetbetter]

You'll have good days and bad days. It's referred to as a "roller coaster" and that's an accurate description of it. I didn't fully understand it myself when I first heard about it back in June. In my case, despite the likely accurate opinions of LS members (that he's made up his mind and I'm Plan B), I'm giving my H until Oct. to "decide" what he wants to do since that's what he's asked for. My situation's a little unique in that my H was diagnosed with depression almost 20 years ago.

 

The 180 is supposed to be for yourself but I know in my case, my H noticed a positive difference in me after I implemented it. And, it gives you a sense of empowerment.

 

It's good that you're educating yourself by going to the library and reading up on things. A couple of books that I found helpful are by Harriet Lerner. One's called The Dance of Intimacy; the other's called The Dance of Connection - there are some similarities between the books, so, some skimming might be in order.

 

If your H's interested in MC, suggest to him that you try another therapist since the one you saw isn't on the same page as you - I recommend this even if your H is saying he's only interested in order to have an amicable separation. You never know when something might click for him and perhaps he'll reconsider what he's doing and realize he's making a huge mistake.

 

Do you have friends and family you can talk to? It's always helpful to be able to discuss your situation. And I doubt your H's able to do that since he's not likely to fess up about the reason for the separation, so, you're ahead of him in that regard. However, if he does chat with people and he doesn't let them know the REAL reason for the separation (OW), don't worry, people aren't foolish - they will know, without him saying so, that there's OW.

 

Is his mom discouraging him from pursuing this course? Think back to during the M - did your H generally respect his mom's opinions? If so, maybe you could have another chat with her. Although this is contrary to the 180, if you want to save your M, this is no time for shame and you have to do everything you can so that at the end, if things don't work out, you can tell yourself you tried everything.

[andyg99]

comments below in BOLD

 

Hi Brettlost.

 

I know he is having an emotional affair, but I know I caught it before it went physical. The OW he's messing with is single, works for him, and told him it couldnt go anywhere but he kept pursueing her. After a week of no contact, she gave in and started talking to him again. This time I wrote her and threaten to go to her boss. That just pissed him off more.

 

Wow - that sounds like sexual harassment to me... but then again is that his story? you need you realize that he is a liar and you really can't trust one thing he says. You're best asset right now is your good common sense. When we are dealing with a cheater we hate to admit it but most of the times we already know the answers we are seeking...

 

I think the reason he doesnt want to sit down and talk about why he is so furious with me is because he doesn't want me to hate him and bash him to our kids.

 

Actually, and this may be tough the hear, the reason why he doesn't want to sit down and talk is because he doesn't give a s$%t about you right now. All he cares about is himself...

 

Then I asked him about dating or exploring options.

 

it's freakin amazing to me that "dating" is even discussed when a marriage is in crisis! Seriously who the f wants to date someone (man or woman) who is in a messed up marriage!!!! "Hi, I'm married, I hardly see my kids, I screwing with my wife's head, I only care about myself and I'm looking for a cutie to stick my prick in... want to go out with me?" OK - sorry, I had to hijack your thread for a minute, I had to vent a little...

 

 

It has been 4 weeks since I outed him and 2 weeks since he moved out. He still texts me and calls so I have been trying to act happy and talk a little about what the kids and I did. When he came to the house this last week before his trip, he hugged me and said I'm sorry. I wasnt sure why but at the moment I felt relief then fear.

 

He did sext me while gone this time. He still says I'll call you later sweetie, or bye sweetie, and I don't know if it is a conscious decision or habit. He doesnt say it every time.

 

listen, I'm so sorry that you have to go through this - each of these stories are unique yet they are so much the same... cheaters are the most narcissistic people around, they'll mess with your head and keep you hanging until they secure something else and then you're history... keep going to counseling no matter what, you need to be the stable parent now, it's not easy but it sounds like this guy playing with you big time, it's almost like he knows he can come and go at any time... again I'm so sorry.....

 

[didntseeit]

@itllgetbetter-we are stuck with this therapist for now (overseas military) until he leaves and fresh ones arrive at the end of the month. I see the therapist today and will outline my plan about R and no talk about D.

 

I have no family in the area and a few friends that I have confided in. As I told my H about counseling, we need to get to the issues and figure out if this can even be fixed. He seemed ok with that. But like I said, work has him traveling and he will return today. I have scheduled us a session tomorrow together but I have a feeling my H will be on the road again.

 

I am taking a mini vacay next week and leaving him with the kids for the week. I am trying to make it until then before making any big decisions.

 

His mom is telling him to do whatever it takes to fix it. She doesnt want to lose the grandchildren. I may call her again if he brings up divorce. Im not even sure she knows that he moved out.

 

@andy- it's not his story, I saw the chat records. He was pursueing her and she kept saying that nothing could happen. I know he doesnt want to talk because then he is going to have to deal with his actions and he isnt good about admitting he has done wrong. I only brought up dating because I was trying to get a feel for what he was looking for. A total break from the marriage or just me. I still don't think he is dating, but I know he is continuing to talk with her.

 

I know he is playing with my head. I dont want to be a doormat but I also want to get our issues out. If he could go to counseling and lay all the issues on the table and be honest, I could then say I tried my best, and take the kids and go.

 

I told him that I would resent him unless he tried to figure out what is really going on. Not the cheating part but why he is turning outside the marriage.

 

I used this analogy. Not sure if it made sense.

 

I once use to be your most prized truck. You use to take care of me everyday. Then one day you can home to find a gigantic dent in the door. Without a second thought you decided to junk the truck and replace it with a new one. You didnt even take it to the mechanic to see if it could be fixed.

 

I appreciate brutal honesty.

[andyg99]

@

 

 

I know he is playing with my head. I dont want to be a doormat but I also want to get our issues out. If he could go to counseling and lay all the issues on the table and be honest, I could then say I tried my best, and take the kids and go.

 

I told him that I would resent him unless he tried to figure out what is really going on. Not the cheating part but why he is turning outside the marriage.

 

I used this analogy. Not sure if it made sense.

 

I once use to be your most prized truck. You use to take care of me everyday. Then one day you can home to find a gigantic dent in the door. Without a second thought you decided to junk the truck and replace it with a new one. You didnt even take it to the mechanic to see if it could be fixed.

 

I appreciate brutal honesty.

 

I know you are trying and believe me we all here want you to save your marriage but him going to counseling and being totally honest may not happen... cheaters lie, they are very good at it... I hope I'm wrong but I'm sure many here can relate to what is happening with you and we can predict where this is going...

 

your analogy is spot on... they don't want to fix it because the newer model is much more fun even if they can't afford it....

[didntseeit]

After I spoke with my H today and asked him if he wanted to talk to the counselor, he said he really didnt. So I said ok. He said he would if I wanted him to but he really doesnt want to. What's the point.

 

He said his mind is made up and that this isnt easy for him. He hasnt contacted a lawyer because he thinks we can work this out without one. Really? You drop a bomb and now you want me to play nice. As$

 

I have given up on my false hopes. Why continue to grasp for things that only I want to see.

 

I must know prepare to move myself and my two kids from overseas back to the states.

 

I need a drink.

[BrettLost]

All the couselor will do is lay out what u already know, in front of u so u both can get a clear understanding of whats goin on and where it is going.

 

I went twice with my exwife to try and "save it", each time she was very stubborn to admit to any wrong doing on her part and pretty much had made her mind up. Once they've crossed that line, trust me, there aint no goin back.... the one exception would be GIGS, whereby after testing other grass she want back to our previously unloved immaculate john deere cut lawn of perfection!! hahaha

[didntseeit]

The point of therapy for me was to get him to say why he is so ticked off. I wanted what I did laid out on the table so that I knew. I need brutal honesty and he isnt even willing to say anything.

 

But like you said Andy....a cheater will lie and lie and lie...

 

I am done. I wish you all well in your recovery.

[itllgetbetter]

Be prepared that if he does agree to tell you what he perceives the problems to be, he'll generally blame you for what's going on. It eases their guilt.

 

Don't drink! That won't help you or the kids. And, you need to be really focused to deal with this situation most effectively.

[didntseeit]

Its the only way I can sleep..

[didntseeit]

After today I really have no need to speak with him. I can email him when its time for him to have the kids, until we move back to the US.

 

His intention today was clear and I was all the blame. But as it says in the article Let them go, he doesnt value me as a wife, partner or mother of his sons. So I really have nothing more to say to him.

 

He can go be with his AP. Karma will have its turn and the boys will someday learn on their own about what kind of man left his family.

[itllgetbetter]

I know it's difficult to sleep & stay asleep for long BUT you MUST not use alcohol - things will only get worse if you do.

 

What did he say when you met him?

 

Did you have a chance to read the thread "I love you but I don't like you"? Again, it has helpful information on it from those who responded to my post. Also take a look at the thread "karma - just desserts??"

 

Try to keep busy and see family/friends (although it may be the case that your family's in the US?) & focus on your kids.

[Tech_E]

Drop this POS. He has cheated on you AT LEAST twice. There is no reason whatsoever to continue this marriage. Get away from him as he is a serial cheater.

[didntseeit]

I read the thread. I seen many of his actions on these posts.

 

He doesnt see it ever changing or getting better even though we have never spoke about it. He is in the fog. She offers a life with no responsibilites. Everything was my fault. I think he is past the point of being rational now.

 

I am going to contact legal services and get some advice so that I can eventually just leave.

 

This sucks.

[andyg99]

He doesnt see it ever changing or getting better even though we have never spoke about it. He is in the fog.

This sucks.

 

sometimes we like to use phrases like "the affair fog"... we need to be careful to not view the situation as our spouses or ex's or stbex's being in some kind of trance that they may snap out of... make no mistake that they know exactly what they are doing....

[didntseeit]

@Andy- the fog and the GIGS...that is where he is at. A few months ago we talked about buying a home in Flordia. We searched and searched and even was planning to visit this summer. Also I pulled out $5K from savings for a lump sum payment on our land so we could pay it off next year. Now he tells me he has felt this way for a long time well before he was making these future plans with me. Hence the fog...his actions and words right now don't match.

 

So I am preparing for the worst.

 

My youngest son asked him why he isnt staying at our house. He couldnt answer him. My son said that all dad did was this..."shrug his shoulders"

 

He cant even tell his kids. He is a chicken ***** and knows that I will be the one explaining his actions. And he doesnt want me to make him look bad?

[Mz. Pixie]

First of all- if you want your marriage-

 

Report this to his boss. NOW. Do not threaten it or warn him. Do it. Don't make excuses as to why you can't. Just do it. Provide proof if necessary.

 

That will bring this all to light and end anything that may have been happening. He'll be mad-furious-but your marriage can survive that. It may even wake him up.

 

Go to marriagebuilders and read everything you can read. There are people there who have recovered their marriages and made them even better. It is free to join and there are people there who will help you. Tons of good info on there too. Read about Plan A and Plan B.

[didntseeit]

I am on marriage builders too. That is why I have false hope. He doesnt want to be married and there is nothing I can say or do to change his mind. I started the 180 with a few of the ideas, now I am in FULL BLOWN mode.

 

I will go to his Commander with his chat records, just not yet. I am talking to legal today to get some information before acting.

 

Thanks for your post

[andyg99]

@Andy- the fog and the GIGS...that is where he is at. A few months ago we talked about buying a home in Flordia. We searched and searched and even was planning to visit this summer. Also I pulled out $5K from savings for a lump sum payment on our land so we could pay it off next year. Now he tells me he has felt this way for a long time well before he was making these future plans with me. Hence the fog...his actions and words right now don't match.

 

 

I guess if you want to label his action as a "fog" then that's ok as long as you realize that he knows EXACTLY what he is doing... his actions and words don't match because he is in a major BS mode right now, so if by "fog" you mean he is lying to you and doesn't care about the consequences then ok, he is in a fog...

[didntseeit]

He wants me to play nice now. I went to get legal advice and he got pissed. I told him I was looking out for my interests as well as the boys and he then did the ole "you think I would do something to you"? Ummm yeah for starters you cheated twice an lied, pie-hole.

 

SO I will not play nice. His pocketbook will pay for being a cheater. I quit my job a year ago because he asked me to, to stay at home with the boys while they are young and going to Elementary school. So I did. So now I have no income, living overseas and he is putting us out. I will not play nice. I was making twice what he made.

I am going to his Commander tomorrow and asking for a no-contact letter for him and his GF. Im sure tomorrow I will get another verbal beating from him as well.

 

Any suggestions as to what I should ask for in this legal separation to protect my kids?

[Mz. Pixie]

Perhaps legal can help you with that. I just wanted to say that I am proud of you. Don't take his verbal abuse when he tries to heap it on you for going to legal tell him "You made the choice to cheat and abandon your family-I am only doing what's right to protect myself, my marriage, and the boys" and hang up. Keep repeating that. Do not let him bait you into an argument.

 

I'm proud of you. Stay strong for your kids. Don't drink-he could use that against you.