Can you ever really get over an affair?

[PatFinkle]

Cheating can bring two people closer together...the cheaters.

[Owl]

This (bolded) is bullsh*t and I'm sick and tired of reading it. Ask anyone who says this if choices other than cheating such as marriage and/or individual counseling or a trial separation could have brought them closer together. These options are no more difficult then reconciliation after cheating and eliminate the need for rebuilding the trust that was shattered by the cheater.

 

People cheat because it's exciting and it feels good. If it indeed results in the married couple rebuilding their relationship and they now say that things are better it doesn't mean that the choice to cheat was the right thing to do. Cheating was the easy, fun thing to do and it just so happened that things ended up better in their relationship but the same could have been accomplished by other means.

 

I completely and totally agree.

 

Cheating is NEVER the right answer to a situation.

[drifter777]

drifter,

 

maybe you would start to feel better if you evened the score.

 

I realize I might be flamed for suggesting a revenge affair but....

 

....if your wife doesn't like it.....

 

....there's the door, honey....

 

Perhaps you didn't read this part:

 

3) I will never know if I am happier staying because I can't know what the other path would have been like. I do love my wife and respect her much more since she has finally taken full responsibility for her cheating.

 

 

Also, I am simply not a cheater. When I was really angry there were times I considered a revenge affair and times when I would ask her "what if I did what you did - how would you feel about that?". But the truth is that I knew cheating is just plain wrong and is a disgusting, cowardly thing to do. I simply have higher standards for myself.

[Will_miss_rk]

Exactly. I'm so sorry you're going through this. (((((Hugs)))))

 

Thanks for the kindness. I need a lot of that nowadays, it's much appreciated.

[Will_miss_rk]

The questions are difficult to answer because of the broad length of time that has encompassed our relationship from then until now.

 

1) looking at the entirety of our relationship, I believe I should have not allowed my wife to coerce me into trying to reconcile. I am sure that at my young age (26) at the time that I would NOT have chosen to reconcile if I would have had a few weeks to sort out my feelings.

 

2) since I chose to stay and accept her being sorry for hurting me but not sorry for the experience, what followed is on me. Three years later she wanted another child and, after some heated discussions, I agreed. We had a daughter and then another son two years later. The many joys of being a father are something I would never trade. I love my children and am devoted to them even now that they are grown. However, had I chosen to start my life over instead of stay and tough it out I may have met another woman and had children with her and ended up with all the same experiences of fatherhood without the ongoing memories of a cheating wife. Tough call.

 

3) I will never know if I am happier staying because I can't know what the other path would have been like. I do love my wife and respect her much more since she has finally taken full responsibility for her cheating.

 

If I could turn back time then I am confident that I would have walked away and started a new life. That new life would have included staying close to my young son and doing everything possible to be a good father to him. I believe that rolling the dice on a different life back then would have resulted in most of the good times I have experienced in this life without the pain, anger, shame and hurt caused by the mental images of her and OM and her refusal to admit that she acted like a selfish whore and it caused only pain for both of us.

 

Remember that this is my life experience and, as they say, your mileage may vary. Use it as a data-point and trust that reconciliation is a very, very difficult journey and may take much longer than you - or many others on LS - realize. Recovery is much like PTSD in that the mental images can pop up at any time. These images force you to re-live the incident and set off your emotional response as if it were d-day all over again. It's up to you and you can take as long as it takes to make your decision.

 

The comparison of recovery to PTSD just shows how difficult a road reconciliation must have been for you. I don't envy your recovery journey but I appreciate you sharing because it sheds a ton of light on what on I should expect if I continue to stay. Even after all those years since D-day it appears that you still have a great deal of pain. Is this pain there daily or is it once a week, once a month or every so often?

[on1wheel]

As for me, my W had an A & I decided to stay for our baby. It has been over 3.5 yrs now & I still suffr daily.

My W has tried to make it up to me, but it could never be enough. Once the sanctity of the M is broken, I believe it is irreparable. We have a good M & our daughter suspects nothing. I simply suffer internally.

I swore when my Angel daughter drew her 1st breath that I would do anything within my power to protect her & give her the best life possible...staying after an A was within my power.

I understand why people some leave, as it is a struggle to cope at times; it's just not a coice I would make. I felt we could have a civil relationship & I knew it was the best thing for my precious child, who had done nothing to deserve the pain that a broken home brings.

So the answer to your question as far as I am concerned is that "NO you never get over it", but you can learn to live with it.

I wish you well which ever way you decide to go. Good luck.

[Will_miss_rk]

As for me, my W had an A & I decided to stay for our baby. It has been over 3.5 yrs now & I still suffr daily.

My W has tried to make it up to me, but it could never be enough. Once the sanctity of the M is broken, I believe it is irreparable. We have a good M & our daughter suspects nothing. I simply suffer internally.

I swore when my Angel daughter drew her 1st breath that I would do anything within my power to protect her & give her the best life possible...staying after an A was within my power.

I understand why people some leave, as it is a struggle to cope at times; it's just not a coice I would make. I felt we could have a civil relationship & I knew it was the best thing for my precious child, who had done nothing to deserve the pain that a broken home brings.

So the answer to your question as far as I am concerned is that "NO you never get over it", but you can learn to live with it.

I wish you well which ever way you decide to go. Good luck.

 

I too am continuing to stay for the kids. It breaks my heart that they would have to suffer because of the infidelity, and not being able to see them everyday would be immense suffering for me. I only wonder, however, if the kids are getting cheated out of having a father that is truly happy and can be fully engaged in their lives. They aren't getting the father they deserve to get, the genuine father that is truly fulfilled in their life which must have an effect their relationship with me.

[2011aug]

I too am continuing to stay for the kids. It breaks my heart that they would have to suffer because of the infidelity, and not being able to see them everyday would be immense suffering for me. I only wonder, however, if the kids are getting cheated out of having a father that is truly happy and can be fully engaged in their lives. They aren't getting the father they deserve to get, the genuine father that is truly fulfilled in their life which must have an effect their relationship with me.

 

It's interesting how perceptive kids are to their parents. They can tell but may not verbalize. It affects them, and how they turn out years down the road due to their parent's "suffering", the parents may never know till much later (if they are lucky?).

 

I hope your kid(s) dont feel too guilty when they know/suspect you're suffering and stayed for them.

[2011aug]

I went back and reread your eariler posts. Your kids are 12 and 15. They are old enough to know and sense there is something wrong. And they are old enough to understand your circumstances and whatever decision you may make. Honesty and love are probably the important things to them.

[drifter777]

The comparison of recovery to PTSD just shows how difficult a road reconciliation must have been for you. I don't envy your recovery journey but I appreciate you sharing because it sheds a ton of light on what on I should expect if I continue to stay. Even after all those years since D-day it appears that you still have a great deal of pain. Is this pain there daily or is it once a week, once a month or every so often?

 

I have said many times that since my wife has accepted responsibility for her cheating and is finally truly sorry that she betrayed our marriage for her own selfish desires, things have gotten much better for me. I rarely have those mental images and the strong emotions they cause so I am happier and simply feel better. The couple years after d-day were tough, but I honestly thought that the memories would fade and the images would stop. I was wrong. Everything got worse and I now am convinced that the reason was her steadfast refusal to take full responsibility for what she did.

 

I should have insisted on MC and forced us both to face reality back then, but frankly I was so ashamed of myself for not just walking out on her that I was not ready to admit/discuss the incident with a stranger. I finally shared this with my current counselor because, as I said, I was finally ready to face reality and prepared to deal with the consequences.

 

I don't suffer every day, in fact I almost never think about it and am very much at peace with our relationship. Certainly, I wish it had never happened and it will always be a horrible memory, but I no longer define myself, her, or our marriage by disgusting behavior so long ago.

[Will_miss_rk]

I have said many times that since my wife has accepted responsibility for her cheating and is finally truly sorry that she betrayed our marriage for her own selfish desires, things have gotten much better for me. I rarely have those mental images and the strong emotions they cause so I am happier and simply feel better. The couple years after d-day were tough, but I honestly thought that the memories would fade and the images would stop. I was wrong. Everything got worse and I now am convinced that the reason was her steadfast refusal to take full responsibility for what she did.

 

I should have insisted on MC and forced us both to face reality back then, but frankly I was so ashamed of myself for not just walking out on her that I was not ready to admit/discuss the incident with a stranger. I finally shared this with my current counselor because, as I said, I was finally ready to face reality and prepared to deal with the consequences.

 

I don't suffer every day, in fact I almost never think about it and am very much at peace with our relationship. Certainly, I wish it had never happened and it will always be a horrible memory, but I no longer define myself, her, or our marriage by disgusting behavior so long ago.

 

Taking full responsibility has been a stumbling block for my wife as well. Recovery would be so much easier if she knew the hell she put me through and fully owned up to the affair. I don't think my wants to think of herself as a slut that is why she won't take full responsibility. She needs to face what she did in the end in order for herself and me to recovery. One day I hope she does.

 

I'm glad you are at peace finally. It appears that the years of suffering offered some reward. Thanks for all your help drifter, you are a smart dude, and your advice is much appreciated and needed by me.

[Will_miss_rk]

I went back and reread your eariler posts. Your kids are 12 and 15. They are old enough to know and sense there is something wrong. And they are old enough to understand your circumstances and whatever decision you may make. Honesty and love are probably the important things to them.

 

Which is why if I truly feel if can't be happy at some point then after about six months I will just leave. I really won't have too many years left with my kids until friends and their education dominant their landscape (which is already happening for the 15 year old) so I've got to make sure that they see a Dad that is more representative of my true personality and not a Dad struggling to be happy.

[drifter777]

Taking full responsibility has been a stumbling block for my wife as well. Recovery would be so much easier if she knew the hell she put me through and fully owned up to the affair. I don't think my wants to think of herself as a slut that is why she won't take full responsibility. She needs to face what she did in the end in order for herself and me to recovery. One day I hope she does.

 

I'm glad you are at peace finally. It appears that the years of suffering offered some reward. Thanks for all your help drifter, you are a smart dude, and your advice is much appreciated and needed by me.

 

I have a suggestion for you but both of you must be in the presence of a counselor before doing it. I'd like you to point-blank ask her if she feels completely responsible for the affair. If she answers "yes" and her body language and behavior all convince you she is being honest, you have a place to start from if you decide to stay and reconcile. If she says "no" or "not entirely" or adds the deadly "but..." to her answer then I think you need to tell her, bluntly, that you are not willing to live with an unremorseful cheater and then get up, go home and pack a bag, and then leave. Call it a trial separation and see if being apart for a while can get you both to focus on the reality of the situation and decide how you want to proceed. Tell your kids it is just for a little while and they don't have to know anything more. You should see them as often as you like, but don't go near your wife as she may try to manipulate you with sex or otherwise take advantage of your emotional state.

 

I think your wife is trying to downplay the whole thing and get you to agree that it's in the past and you need to just get over it. It must be working to some extent as she has been unwilling to accept responsibility for what she has done, meaning she either doesn't care what you think or she simply has no fear of repercussions. You need to find out which it is since if she doesn't care what you think or how you feel then your path is pretty well defined.

 

The key is get an honest answer out of her which is why doing it with a counselor present is important. This is vital as it is the first step to reconciliation and is a requirement your personal recovery.

[Will_miss_rk]

I have a suggestion for you but both of you must be in the presence of a counselor before doing it. I'd like you to point-blank ask her if she feels completely responsible for the affair. If she answers "yes" and her body language and behavior all convince you she is being honest, you have a place to start from if you decide to stay and reconcile. If she says "no" or "not entirely" or adds the deadly "but..." to her answer then I think you need to tell her, bluntly, that you are not willing to live with an unremorseful cheater and then get up, go home and pack a bag, and then leave. Call it a trial separation and see if being apart for a while can get you both to focus on the reality of the situation and decide how you want to proceed. Tell your kids it is just for a little while and they don't have to know anything more. You should see them as often as you like, but don't go near your wife as she may try to manipulate you with sex or otherwise take advantage of your emotional state.

 

I think your wife is trying to downplay the whole thing and get you to agree that it's in the past and you need to just get over it. It must be working to some extent as she has been unwilling to accept responsibility for what she has done, meaning she either doesn't care what you think or she simply has no fear of repercussions. You need to find out which it is since if she doesn't care what you think or how you feel then your path is pretty well defined.

 

The key is get an honest answer out of her which is why doing it with a counselor present is important. This is vital as it is the first step to reconciliation and is a requirement your personal recovery.

 

I agree that she needs to take full responsibility for the affair unconditionally. While having her say it in front of the counselor is a good idea, she might say it just to get me to move forward in the reconciliation process. In other words, just give me lip service. Deep down I don't think she will ever feel that she wasn't pushed into having the affair because she thought I didn't love her and felt empty inside. She believes this to her very core. She realizes it was a stupid way to make herself feel better but the stage was set in her eyes by feeling unloved and empty.

 

I can see where you are going with the idea of having her admit full responsibility because you can probably see that I won't stay in the long run if I don't get her to own up 100%. I'm going to take your advice and try to get her to take responsibility because I know it will be important in the healing process but I'm not very optimistic she will do it. She will have to deal with the consequences of a more difficult reconciliation if she doesn't however. Hopefully the counselor can convince her how vital that would be for the recovery process.

[Will_miss_rk]

Here you go: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t158015/

 

Maladjusted,

 

Just finished reading your story. It was heartbreaking to read how it unfolded. FWIW, you seem like a really nice guy and it's unfortunate you had to be put through such hell. Hope everything goes better for you in the future. I always wish for good things to happen to good people but unfortunately that isn't always the case. Best of luck.

[Steadfast]

People cheat because it's exciting and it feels good. If it indeed results in the married couple rebuilding their relationship and they now say that things are better it doesn't mean that the choice to cheat was the right thing to do. Cheating was the easy, fun thing to do and it just so happened that things ended up better in their relationship but the same could have been accomplished by other means.

 

Completely agree. My dad had an affair and it helped nothing. They survived it...not helped by it, except for when pressed my dad realized he didn't want to lose his family. To his death, he credited mom for holding the family together, even though he carried the guilt for the rest of his life.

 

drifter, don't feel bad about your decision to stay (if, indeed you are experiencing some doubt about your decision). If my ex wife had agreed, I would have tried. I loved her and my family...I would have tried. I was willing, but I can't comment on how I'd feel because I never had the chance to experience it. Going through another affair though, would have been tough. I didn't want it then and never would want that again. Dreadful.

 

It sounds like you two are coming to grips with it...making a workable solution. If you can forgive her, you'd be happier. Has she ever asked?

[carrie999]

This (bolded) is bullsh*t and I'm sick and tired of reading it. Ask anyone who says this if choices other than cheating such as marriage and/or individual counseling or a trial separation could have brought them closer together.

 

I would normally agree. I'm very honest in relationships, and if my marriage was going poorly, I'd ask a LOT of questions and make sure there was open communication. However, there are plenty of relationships in which one person refuses to talk, or listen, and the other feels trapped by martial vows.

 

These options are no more difficult then reconciliation after cheating and eliminate the need for rebuilding the trust that was shattered by the cheater.

 

Here's where I wholly disagree. Cheating for me is a deal-breaker. If my communication with a SO broke down to that level, the relationship is dead, because everything is lost, including trust that could never be re-built to even the level at which we started. But I can't speak for everyone. I use Suren as an example because her marriage was strong, hit a weak point, and they managed to get past it and become stronger by being more forthright with eachother and acknowledging how much they needed one another. Her story awes and inspires me, while confusing me. I'll never understand it fully. Fact is, whatever YOU believe, cheating can ultimately strengthen a relationship. Not mine, and not yours, but the rare people who can look at it as a bump in the road and be strong and resolute enough in their love to move past it. Don't judge that.

 

Still, I never admonished the OP to think this will all work out. It's a crappy situation. Show some compassion, or leave it alone.

 

People cheat because it's exciting and it feels good. If it indeed results in the married couple rebuilding their relationship and they now say that things are better it doesn't mean that the choice to cheat was the right thing to do. Cheating was the easy, fun thing to do and it just so happened that things ended up better in their relationship but the same could have been accomplished by other means.

 

Huh? Have you ever been in the role of the betraying spouse or the OW/OM? Can you explain to me how you came to such a strong conclusion? For most of us, it's really, really hard. For some, yes, the very act of deception is a fun game, and makes it exciting. For anyone who feels anything for the other two people involved, it's scary and evokes awful feelings of guilt.

 

My MM is finally on the path to divorce, and all we both feel right now is sadness for his wife, because it's hurting her, and while he's had plenty of time to process it and grieve ending his marriage (and trust me, he's mourning the loss of his belief system just in doing so, and has questioned who he is all along), it's almost easier for us to know that we are both going to be legitimately single.

 

Sneaking around and having the secret rendezvous is not fun. Every time, there is some acknowledgement that both of you are doing something that is not only against what you believe a marriage should uphold, but potentially really hurtful to someone else. Don't delude yourself into thinking having an affair is fun or easy. Maybe it is fun for those who enjoy flings and never should have been married or even exclusively involved with anyone, or those who get off on a quick fling with a married man, but most people in affairs are deeply conflicted and seek help from any source, including boards like these.

 

So stop judging people and assuming you have any idea what they're going through. Seek help and friendship in boards that are meant to support you, and come here when you've achieved the level of perspective Suren has and you really WANT to help those involved in affairs.

[woinlove]

I'm very honest in relationships

 

Your posts seem to becoming more and more disconnected from reality. On another thread you described in detail how you act like you are there for a "friend" while betraying her trust and deceiving her about your A with her husband. Previously, you explained how you hid your A from your fiance and others. You have participated in deception for at least a year so I have no idea what you mean when you say you are very honest.

 

 

Here's where I wholly disagree. Cheating for me is a deal-breaker. If my communication with a SO broke down to that level, the relationship is dead, because everything is lost, including trust that could never be re-built to even the level at which we started. But I can't speak for everyone. I use Suren as an example because her marriage was strong, hit a weak point, and they managed to get past it and become stronger by being more forthright with eachother and acknowledging how much they needed one another. Her story awes and inspires me, while confusing me. I'll never understand it fully. Fact is, whatever YOU believe, cheating can ultimately strengthen a relationship. Not mine, and not yours, but the rare people who can look at it as a bump in the road and be strong and resolute enough in their love to move past it. Don't judge that.

 

Are you referring to Seren when you say it's a fact that cheating can strengthen a R? I've never heard her say anything like that as I recall her talking about the work, honesty and openness they poured into their M to make it stronger, not that an A made it stronger. In fact, I got the impression from what Seren has written that the A had weakened and harmed the M. Perhaps she will see this and explain whether what you say is true for her.

 

Or perhaps you are not referring to Seren here and you have some other example to support your claimed fact. If so, you didn't describe it. I'd be quite surprised to hear of an A that strengthened a M and would be interested if you think you know of any case. In open M, I have heard similar claims to the one you are making, but in those cases the outside R is discussed openly and so it is very different than a secret A. Even there, I think it is the open and honest communication and shared intimacy that actually strengthens the M, and not the fact that one spouse is involved with a third party per se. If one removed the R with the third party and still kept all the open and honest communication, I suspect the M would be similarly strengthened.

 

I'm curious how you think lying and deception can actually strengthen an M. Or is this related to referring to someone who has a secret A while in a committed R as "very honest in relationships"?

[seren]

Umm, I will explain. H and I have been together a long, long time. He was and is my best friend, my lover, my The One and everything inbetween. I am not a pushover, in our marriage I was an am the one who fights the dragons, if that makes sense. I was professionally very succesful and very able. My H was in the military, had a really, really rough time in Iraq on a number of tours, the last one just about finished him physically, emotionally and shot his self esteem and self worth to pieces. He has and does always put me on some sort of pedestal, not that I want to be as it gets pretty high sometimes, but I took the pressure off him as his job was so stressful.

 

Along the way, probably in the 12 months before the A we began to drift, my job became very demanding, H felt less and less 'useful' as he was away during the week and I just got on with it. We both took our eye off the ball. I am a talker and fixer, H is a conflict avoider and I enabled that by taking care of everything. I never, for one moment stopped loving, liking or lusting him, nor he me. BUT, somewhere along the way he stopped liking himself and thought he wasn't good enough, no matter how many talks of if you aren't happy then we can split up and I will make sure all is OK worked. So I waited for him to be the man I knew he really was while he went off the rails. Enter the OW, she had always said that H was the sort of man she wanted, not blaming her for one nanosecond. BUT, here was someone who he felt was on his level, again not saying this to disparage her, but she really was and is not a nice person. It was what it was. He told me about the A.

 

I was floored, gobsmacked and all the WTF feelings inbetweem, but I understood the why's of it and I said leave if you would be happier with her. True it would have broken my heart, but I would rather he left and was happy than stay for guilt or any other reason. We decided to reconcile or at least try to. It has been hard, harder than anything I have ever experienced and I have experienced an awful lot of crap stuff. But I simply could not imagine life without him. I have never stopped loving him. I don't use the love word lightly.

 

The A was, of course the wrong way to deal with our problems and his problems, but it happened. What the A did was to lay it all out there, for us to look at what we had, what we did, and what we needed to do to either make it or break it. I would have given such a lot for us to be where we are today without the A, but, for it to work it took an establishing of boundaries a look at what and how we had ever let it get to the stage where we couldn't talk to each other as we once had. The A did not repair our broken marriage WE did, but without it we might have continued to drift. No one forgets an A, no one ever forgets the feelings of betrayal, pain and loss of trust. But to dwell on it and allow it to darken our every waking moment is pointless and a waste of life. of course there are days when it bites my a*** and there are most days when H feels remorse, at these times we talk about our feelings, we have changed, our relationship has changed. Is it stronger? Yes it is not because of the A, but despite it.

 

Some people will never, ever understand that, but my reality is my reality. I am certainly not in denial. I like to face my dragons head on. I will never allow an A to nip away at me and my happiness, if it did, I would leave. I hate A's, but I don't hate people and s*** happens, you deal with it in whatever way works for you. I wouldn't be so arrogant to blanket feed my views on anyone, just my experience.

Phew!!

[carrie999]

Your posts seem to becoming more and more disconnected from reality. On another thread you described in detail how you act like you are there for a "friend" while betraying her trust and deceiving her about your A with her husband. Previously, you explained how you hid your A from your fiance and others. You have participated in deception for at least a year so I have no idea what you mean when you say you are very honest.

 

No, they're not. Earlier on, my sense of reality was dictated by my own thoughts and this board, which is clearly all over the place, and a terrible guidepost to "reality." Yes, the affair is hidden. Yes, I care about her, but don't consider her to be a "friend" to me, or anyone else. She vents to me more than anyone else, but doesn't talk about how she feels, and nobody leans on her for support, and she doesn't talk honestly with me or him or anyone else. So no, I wouldn't consider her a true friend, and even if I wasn't his AP, I wouldn't be her true friend, either. As far as my EX fiance is concerned, we are friends.

 

Are you referring to Seren when you say it's a fact that cheating can strengthen a R? I've never heard her say anything like that as I recall her talking about the work, honesty and openness they poured into their M to make it stronger, not that an A made it stronger. In fact, I got the impression from what Seren has written that the A had weakened and harmed the M. Perhaps she will see this and explain whether what you say is true for her.

 

I only referred to her because she is one of the rare BS who regularly posts to lend insight and sometimes support. She is strong, and wise, and recognizes that while the affair was devastating, dealing with it together saved her marriage. I agree that only through open and honest communication, any relationship can survive. I'm not purporting that an affair is in any way good for a marriage, but she is a fantastic example of how a traumatic event (like an affair) can open and outline what is wrong in a relationship, and what needs to be fixed for the relationship to go back to being strong.

 

I'm curious how you think lying and deception can actually strengthen an M. Or is this related to referring to someone who has a secret A while in a committed R as "very honest in relationships"?

 

I don't, and I don't care what labels you or anyone else apply to me for saying this. The first time my loved one cheats, I'm gone. This doesn't mean that I believe they're untrustworthy or awful people by nature, but to me, cheating is the final nail in the coffin of a dead relationship. And that's something that may not be accepted here. Cheaters aren't cheaters by nature. They're not selfish jerks who get off by betraying someone or getting cheap thrills. Sure, some fit that exact description, particularly those who are serial cheaters. Most are not.

 

In many cases, people cheat because they're confused, and not only do they not accept that the relationship they have is over, but they torture themselves for their deceit. They never envisioned themselves at failing in a marriage.

 

I still wouldn't be with someone who cheated on me in any regard because I believe everyone cheats for one of three reasons: 1.) They're not fulfilled by their partner, either emotionally or sexually, and are too afraid to be honest about it; 2.) They're not fulfilled in some way because they're completely incompatible with their partner, or 3.) They just like getting off by being unfaithful. The only scenario in which I could see forgiveness is the first one, if they were honest and forthright after DDay. In the second, (which describes my MM), the marriage is and always was doomed. In the third, well...that person probably can't ever have any serious relationship with anyone.

 

Back to the original point, I'm honest in relationships. You always know where I stand with you. I'm not harsh, but I don't pretend things are okay when they're not.

[seren]

Thank you Carrie for the nice things said x

[woinlove]

Umm, I will explain. H and I have been together a long, long time. He was and is my best friend, my lover, my The One and everything inbetween. I am not a pushover, in our marriage I was an am the one who fights the dragons, if that makes sense. I was professionally very succesful and very able. My H was in the military, had a really, really rough time in Iraq on a number of tours, the last one just about finished him physically, emotionally and shot his self esteem and self worth to pieces. He has and does always put me on some sort of pedestal, not that I want to be as it gets pretty high sometimes, but I took the pressure off him as his job was so stressful.

 

Along the way, probably in the 12 months before the A we began to drift, my job became very demanding, H felt less and less 'useful' as he was away during the week and I just got on with it. We both took our eye off the ball. I am a talker and fixer, H is a conflict avoider and I enabled that by taking care of everything. I never, for one moment stopped loving, liking or lusting him, nor he me. BUT, somewhere along the way he stopped liking himself and thought he wasn't good enough, no matter how many talks of if you aren't happy then we can split up and I will make sure all is OK worked. So I waited for him to be the man I knew he really was while he went off the rails. Enter the OW, she had always said that H was the sort of man she wanted, not blaming her for one nanosecond. BUT, here was someone who he felt was on his level, again not saying this to disparage her, but she really was and is not a nice person. It was what it was. He told me about the A.

 

I was floored, gobsmacked and all the WTF feelings inbetweem, but I understood the why's of it and I said leave if you would be happier with her. True it would have broken my heart, but I would rather he left and was happy than stay for guilt or any other reason. We decided to reconcile or at least try to. It has been hard, harder than anything I have ever experienced and I have experienced an awful lot of crap stuff. But I simply could not imagine life without him. I have never stopped loving him. I don't use the love word lightly.

 

The A was, of course the wrong way to deal with our problems and his problems, but it happened. What the A did was to lay it all out there, for us to look at what we had, what we did, and what we needed to do to either make it or break it. I would have given such a lot for us to be where we are today without the A, but, for it to work it took an establishing of boundaries a look at what and how we had ever let it get to the stage where we couldn't talk to each other as we once had. The A did not repair our broken marriage WE did, but without it we might have continued to drift. No one forgets an A, no one ever forgets the feelings of betrayal, pain and loss of trust. But to dwell on it and allow it to darken our every waking moment is pointless and a waste of life. of course there are days when it bites my a*** and there are most days when H feels remorse, at these times we talk about our feelings, we have changed, our relationship has changed. Is it stronger? Yes it is not because of the A, but despite it.

 

Some people will never, ever understand that, but my reality is my reality. I am certainly not in denial. I like to face my dragons head on. I will never allow an A to nip away at me and my happiness, if it did, I would leave. I hate A's, but I don't hate people and s*** happens, you deal with it in whatever way works for you. I wouldn't be so arrogant to blanket feed my views on anyone, just my experience.

Phew!!

 

Thank you for your clear explanation. I understand the "not because of the A, but despite it" and the idea that it is a combination of what you two shared previously, who you two are as individuals and how you both responded and worked after the A that makes your M what it now is.

 

Sometimes one hears "the death brought them closer", in describing how a couple responded to the death of a loved one. Again it is who they are and how they responded that brought them closer. Crediting the death is likely just an efficiency of words and one should not get hung up on semantics. No one would ever suggest that someone should die in order to bring a couple closer.

 

However, with A's the people who use phrases like "an affair can strengthen a marriage" are often involved in affairs themselves and seem to be using it as a justification. In this case, it seems worthwhile to spell things out, to explain what it is that actually brings a couple closer together or builds a stronger marriage. And you do that very well, Seren.

[woinlove]

I still wouldn't be with someone who cheated on me in any regard because I believe everyone cheats for one of three reasons: 1.) They're not fulfilled by their partner, either emotionally or sexually, and are too afraid to be honest about it; 2.) They're not fulfilled in some way because they're completely incompatible with their partner, or 3.) They just like getting off by being unfaithful. The only scenario in which I could see forgiveness is the first one, if they were honest and forthright after DDay. In the second, (which describes my MM), the marriage is and always was doomed. In the third, well...that person probably can't ever have any serious relationship with anyone.

 

I think Seren just gave a very thoughtful description of someone who cheated and didn't fit any of your 3 categories. I think people cheating because they are not happy with themselves is not that unusual. People not happy with themselves will not actually be happy/fixed/fufilled/satisfied/whatever by any partner, but the chemical rush of a new R can mask that fact quite well.

 

I see you have picked a reason for your MM's cheating which doesn't require him to fix himself. Hmmm.

Edited August 26, 2011 by woinlove

[myheartisdying]

I didnt get to read all the replies, but all I can say is, it gets easier, but NEVER goes away. You will have so mich resentment towards your spouse, and if they dont try as much as you to make it work, the resentment just grows, when its supposed to diminish. Resentment can ruin the marriage after an affair. You must communicate, and try to bring your marriage back to life. And I dont think kids are a bad reason to stay, but you DO have to do whats best for you, because life is short and you deserve to be happy like everyone else. Good luck.

[myheartisdying]

I think Seren just gave a very thoughtful description of someone who cheated and didn't fit any of your 3 categories. I think people cheating because they are not happy with themselves is not that unusual. People not happy with themselves will not actually be happy/fixed/fufilled/satisfied/whatever by any partner, but the chemical rush of a new R can mask that fact quite well.

 

I see you have picked a reason for your MM's cheating which doesn't require him to fix himself. Hmmm.

 

Its not unusual at all. I believe that is why my H cheated on me. Hes been unhappy his entire life.