When your SO makes subtle comments that you need to lose weight

[Star Gazer]

The hypocrisy in this thread is rampant. Notice how SG went on the major defensive when criticized about her weight and now she's claiming dishonesty from me and that I didn't see her pics (think Hawaii). And yet with her, she's being "honest" with ES. Come on, if there's any dishonesty, it's SG.

 

Your obsession with my posting style and blatant mischaracterization of things I do and say is getting a little weird.

 

I wasn't defensive, I was annoyed that ES would bash me (someone who is proud of her body and not the one starting threads about it) in order to make herself feel better. Apparently you're at it now too.

 

As for dishonesty and seeing pics, I was referring to you seeing ES's pics, not mine. If you had seen those, there is no way you could honestly say she's thinner than me, even at my heaviest ever - which was when I was in Hawaii in May 2010. That said, I never posted any full-body pics of me in Hawaii (even to FB). Hawaii was 14 months ago, when I was 18 pounds heaver and had 8% more body fat than I do now.

[Star Gazer]

Don't like it when someone turns your tactic back on you? Strange dat...hmmm?

 

What on earth are you talking about? I enter ES's threads to respond to what ES talks about. Where the discussion evolves, I have no control over.

 

YOU, on the other hand, enter ES's threads for the sole purpose of attacking the folks who post in her threads by using inaccurate, incendiary language to describe their intent, and to call them names. It's as though you believe you've been charged with the responsibility of defending ES against ANY criticism at all - even her own!!! - at ALL COSTS, even your very own credibility.

 

What is up with THAT?!?

[threebyfate]

Your obsession with my posting style and blatant mischaracterization of things I do and say is getting a little weird.

 

I wasn't defensive, I was annoyed that ES would bash me (someone who is proud of her body and not the one starting threads about it) in order to make herself feel better. Apparently you're at it now too.

 

As for dishonesty and seeing pics, I was referring to you seeing ES's pics, not mine. If you had seen those, there is no way you could honestly say she's thinner than me, even at my heaviest ever - which was when I was in Hawaii in May 2010. That said, I never posted any full-body pics of me in Hawaii (even to FB). Hawaii was 14 months ago, when I was 18 pounds heaver and had 8% more body fat than I do now.

I saw ES's pics and have seen more than enough pics from her.

 

Why so defensive SG when someone talks about your weight? Why is it okay that you can insult someone else about their weight but when anyone comments on your past or present weight, you get all defensive? Why is your brand of honesty okay and yet, you're so quick to attack ES for her brand of honesty?

 

And if I were to continually harp on your weight and body structure, how would you feel? It's definitely something you struggle with lifelong, forever going on exercise programs and diets. So instead of providing empathy and compassion to ES who wants to lose a few pounds, you deliberately attack her every vulnerability that she's exposed on LS.

[zengirl]

You have claimed to be a very secure person and yet, secure people don't continually abuse other members. If not jealousy/envy, might it be insecurity?

 

I don't think I abuse anyone. I will certainly agree that I say what I think, and that some of the things I say could be considered "abrasive" by people who don't have my worldview. Oh well. I guess I'm secure enough not to care.

 

I don't want ES to feel bad about herself or her weight, and her feeling bad wouldn't make me feel somehow better. THAT would be insecurity, and it's what 15 year old girls do. I see it all the time, as I work with teenage girls at the moment. All I said was that if you say, "Hey look at my pictures. Am I fat?" you better be prepared for a pretty big range of replies, including, "Yeah, you're kinda fat." (Again: didn't see the pictures. Don't know. Not even calling her fat. I don't even think it matters unless one is truly obese or unhealthy in some way. I know some larger women who are beautiful, happy, sexy ladies. But ES would be appalled to be compared to them, probably, based on her post where I really got annoyed with her!)

 

My suggested solution: Don't do that. Don't self-criticize, expecting other people to correct and validate you. Just don't do it. I don't consider dolling out that advice --- and calling bad behavior bad --- to be tearing someone down. Why are you so obsessed with shutting down any potentially critical opinions?

 

Re: my insecurity -- Do I *ever* feel insecure in my life? Well, sometimes, sure. We all do. I think I'm less insecure than many people I know because I fail to indulge it (by, say, beating myself up and announcing my flaws to the world, hoping they'll tell me "No, no, you look great" --- that'd be one of the hundred ways people routinely indulge their insecurities), but it doesn't mean I have some magic secret to always feeling awesome all the time. It takes work and a sense of self and good healthy mental practices. Which I think I have, yes, but I didn't always have them. And even now, I occasionally do get insecure (usually has to do with money, honestly), but I can't think of anything that's come up in this thread. That's my journey with insecurity, if you want it. I'm a pretty open person and always happy to share---whether it be my opinions or my experiences.

 

I admitted that I got angry at a bookstore in a thread a few weeks ago; I certainly have flaws. But I can honestly say I don't go around getting kicks from tearing people down. I WILL point out gross behavior when I see it. Identifying it in the world is half the battle of life.

 

Right. In every thread, it's the same ol' group of people all stomping on ES of which you're one of them. Now it's my turn to come back at you people and push back at the bullying. No matter what ES does, it's wrong. No matter what SG does, it's acceptable. What's with you people, enabling each other's abusive ways?

 

Again, I've disagreed with SG. I've EVEN disagreed with SG in an ES thread before. I'm pretty certain of it. We have similar opinions on certain things is all. If I disagree with SG, I will say so, and she and I have gone round and round more than once. And since our personalities are both critical, wordy, and stubborn . . . well, it goes on awhile. Hasn't happened in several months though.

 

I also don't always say ES is wrong, though her pattern of post mortem-ing a relationship is usually fairly unhealthy, so I'm sure I've said it more than once lately.

 

So . . . neither of those things are actually true. Nor would I classify anything I said as "abuse." I pointed out a bad behavior on ES's part. That's not abusive, and it's totally my right as an observer. Your definition of abuse must be very different from mine.

[threebyfate]

Does ES need "defending"? She is, after all, a mature adult and a grown woman...

 

...I like when other posters come to my aid, and I have never experienced the same level of backlash that ES has come to consistently receive. However, her posts, in manner and content, are hers after all. As all of us elect to join or not join her threads, we all have come to expect these results. I wonder at the word "defense", if it is the appropriate word to apply in this context.

I see. This is really disappointing welike. It's called common decency to help someone being consistently bullied on LS. Your own common decency and sense of equity should be screaming at you to help people in need, not enable bullying.

[Art_Critic]

I WILL point out gross behavior when I see it.

 

I think that is what TBF is trying to do...

 

ES is constantly cyber bullied and TBF has been pointing out the gross behavior that she has seen.

 

I'm not saying you are bullying her ZG as I've not seen you do that but if you point out gross behavior IRL then why not do it on LS when you see ES being piled on a the group of cyber bully's that we have here ?

[climbergirl]

Don't like it when someone turns your tactic back on you? Strange dat...hmmm?

 

You have claimed to be a very secure person and yet, secure people don't continually abuse other members. If not jealousy/envy, might it be insecurity?

 

Right. In every thread, it's the same ol' group of people all stomping on ES of which you're one of them. Now it's my turn to come back at you people and push back at the bullying. No matter what ES does, it's wrong. No matter what SG does, it's acceptable. What's with you people, enabling each other's abusive ways?

 

Strange how I don't appreciate the consistent abuse heaped on other members. Strange how I only defend ES once SG and others abuse her.

 

So what's your story about why you abuse ES?

 

(In bold) I stated the same thing. In truth, I would be mortified to be perceived as cruel and it's hard to ignore someone who has over 20,000 posts. Apparently there is no culpability and no acknowledgement that, perhaps, written word may be misinterpreted of one's 'true' intent. However, that only applies if that is the case. If the thread was turned around and SG was the OP, you can bet that she would have been offended. Credit to ES for keeping it under her hat until way into the thread and NOT telling anyone to stay out of her thread.

 

Most people don't like bullying, and some will stand up those who are doing so. I cringed when I saw what some posters were saying to ES(and it was noted that it wasn't men). My advice to her is only this; If you don't feel comfortable with yourself-do something. If you do, then anyone who feels the need to criticize you is someone you don't need in your life.

 

BTW-I've been a member since 2005 and I don't post my 'problems' here either. So what if a person doesn't?? I suspect that some of us don't because we are pretty content in our lives and don't feel the need to have every aspect of our lives validated. I used to at one point when I was in a bad relationship (and it was LostGirl and TBF, ironically, who helped me), but that was long ago. I really don't get the point of being upset that TBF doesn't post as much. I say that I am happy that TBF is happy in her life.

[zengirl]

If you had seen those, there is no way you could honestly say she's thinner than me, even at my heaviest ever - which was when I was in Hawaii in May 2010. That said, I never posted any full-body pics of me in Hawaii (even to FB). Hawaii was 14 months ago, when I was 18 pounds heaver and had 8% more body fat than I do now.

 

Seriously, SG, don't get sucked into that. Who is thinner is frankly irrelevant.

 

For an analogy:

If a kid brings his 1310 SAT score and asks, "Will this get me into Harvard?" it's totally fine for someone with a 1000 SAT score to say, "Not likely, dude." The other kid's score is not relevant to the conversation. Nor is your weight.

 

(Using the old SAT scales. I am in Education, but I still think in old SAT scores. Sorry to the younger posters here, if that's throwing you off, or you could just pretend these two kids REALLY test poorly. )

[Star Gazer]

I saw ES's pics and have seen more than enough pics from her.

 

Why so defensive SG when someone talks about your weight? Why is it okay that you can insult someone else about their weight but when anyone comments on your past or present weight, you get all defensive? Why is your brand of honesty okay and yet, you're so quick to attack ES for her brand of honesty?

 

And if I were to continually harp on your weight and body structure, how would you feel? It's definitely something you struggle with lifelong, forever going on exercise programs and diets. So instead of providing empathy and compassion to ES who wants to lose a few pounds, you deliberately attack her every vulnerability that she's exposed on LS.

 

My brand of honesty is to, well, be direct and honest - even if it comes out in an impolite fashion as viewed by some. On the other hand, ES's brand of "so-called" honesty is to say things to me with the INTENT to hurt my feelings, regardless of whether she actually thinks what's coming out of her mouth. Same for you. You just attacked one of my known vulnerabilities. You're no better than what you accuse me of.

 

For the third time, I'm not defensive about my weight. At all. I think you're being dishonest in YOUR opinion, given that you're apparently hell bent on needlessly attacking me in your efforts to "defend" ES, who you've managed to paint as a hapless victim who cannot survive without your strike missions.

 

Attack my weight and my so-called "lifelong struggle," TBF. Really. Go ahead. Have at it. I own it. I have put it out there so I EXPECT that people will disagree with my opinion of my figure. That is life, ya know? But at the end of the day, I can sleep soundly because I am PROUD of my body and what I have made of it.

 

Whether it be needing counseling to improve one's mental health or eating healthy and exercising to lose weight, what I have absolutely no patience for is someone who criticizes themselves and acknowledges a problem (ES: "I know I'm crazy!" or "I know I need to lose weight") but refuses to do anything about it and goes on a rant of anyone who dares agree with her self-assessment.

[zengirl]

I think that is what TBF is trying to do...

 

ES is constantly cyber bullied and TBF has been pointing out the gross behavior that she has seen.

 

I'm not saying you are bullying her ZG as I've not seen you do that but if you point out gross behavior IRL then why not do it on LS when you see ES being piled on a the group of cyber bully's that we have here ?

 

Because I don't feel like ES is being cyber-bullied, I guess.

 

Someone says they're a few pounds overweight. Someone else says if you dress better you could hide it. How is that rude? Again, maybe we just see discussions of appearances differently.

 

The only really offensive thing I thought was said on the thread were some of ES's comments about BBW. And a few of the attacks on SG, one of them made by ES herself.

 

I'm not going to side with someone just based on numbers. I look at things purely based on what I see. I have seen ES cyber-bullied on occasion, by people calling her names and such that go beyond appropriate, but it's usually one-offs or posters that quickly tire of it, and I don't agree SG is bullying her. I think SG is just really, really frustrated with ES's behavior. Mileage may vary, of course.

[Star Gazer]

Seriously, SG, don't get sucked into that. Who is thinner is frankly irrelevant.

 

For an analogy:

If a kid brings his 1310 SAT score and asks, "Will this get me into Harvard?" it's totally fine for someone with a 1000 SAT score to say, "Not likely, dude." The other kid's score is not relevant to the conversation. Nor is your weight.

 

(Using the old SAT scales. I am in Education, but I still think in old SAT scores. Sorry to the younger posters here, if that's throwing you off, or you could just pretend these two kids REALLY test poorly. )

 

I hear you and agree that my figure is just as irrelevan as my SAT score would be. It just blows my mind that after saying "Not really, dude," it's somehow okay for her and TBF to say, "You should talk, you can't even get into a state school, loser."

 

 

How about this? This is how I'll leave this thread: Although she starts thread after thread wherein she acknowledges having various troubles, ES is wrong about every flaw she has ever recognized in herself. The reason why she doesn't take any action to fix these alleged flaws is clear. She is truly perfect just the way she is, inside and out, mentally, emotionally, and physically. She should not change a thing about herself, or seek to improve anything about herself, because there's simply no room for improvement. Anyone who dares express otherwise will have to answer to her defender, who need not be named.

 

The End!

[threebyfate]

I think that is what TBF is trying to do...

 

ES is constantly cyber bullied and TBF has been pointing out the gross behavior that she has seen.

 

I'm not saying you are bullying her ZG as I've not seen you do that but if you point out gross behavior IRL then why not do it on LS when you see ES being piled on a the group of cyber bully's that we have here ?

Exactly! It shocks me that people aren't willing to admit what's going on.

 

(In bold) I stated the same thing. In truth, I would be mortified to be perceived as cruel and it's hard to ignore someone who has over 20,000 posts. Apparently there is no culpability and no acknowledgement that, perhaps, written word may be misinterpreted of one's 'true' intent. However, that only applies if that is the case. If the thread was turned around and SG was the OP, you can bet that she would have been offended. Credit to ES for keeping it under her hat until way into the thread and NOT telling anyone to stay out of her thread.

 

Most people don't like bullying, and some will stand up those who are doing so. I cringed when I saw what some posters were saying to ES(and it was noted that it wasn't men). My advice to her is only this; If you don't feel comfortable with yourself-do something. If you do, then anyone who feels the need to criticize you is someone you don't need in your life.

 

BTW-I've been a member since 2005 and I don't post my 'problems' here either. So what if a person doesn't?? I suspect that some of us don't because we are pretty content in our lives and don't feel the need to have every aspect of our lives validated. I used to at one point when I was in a bad relationship (and it was LostGirl and TBF, ironically, who helped me), but that was long ago. I really don't get the point of being upset that TBF doesn't post as much. I say that I am happy that TBF is happy in her life.

Most people with any kind of common decency and sense of equity. The same thing happened to shadowplay.

 

There's a real difference between tough love and abuse/bullying. It's shocking that people can't see the difference. Also, even with tough love, it isn't necessarily the methodology that works with everyone, although I'm not seeing tough love, just bullying and abuse.

 

Thanks climbergirl. I'm so glad that your life turned around. No one deserved the kind of treatment that you received.

[MrNate]

Now c'mon ES. Why do that to Ms. Gazer? That's not cool at all. I've never seen her, but she always struck me as quite yummy. So I have no doubt she got it going on physically, especially if my good friend hokie was drawn to it .

Why can't we all just get along? Lol.

[snug.bunny]

I am just wondering about this and how to handle it in the future.

 

To me, that demonstrates, that she is OPEN to suggestion.

 

A person has to choose whether or not to follow through with the advice that is given. That is on them. No one else...

 

It is their responsibility, and at the end of the day, it is up to him/her to take ownership of their own thoughts and feelings.

 

I think OP can benefit from stepping in when comments take on the tone of "insensitive" and handle it appropriately. Saying nothing, and just “taking it in,” in effect, gives the other permission to do so. So does lashing out, when feelings are hurt.

 

Learning to desipher constructive feedback from non-constructive feedback, and filter in/filter out same, is a GOOD thing. And it is something that everyone can benefit from.

 

[MrNate]

For the record, when women are discussing their bodies on here, or running a slight comparison, please forward all relevant pictures to my inbox for a complete, objective and unbiased analysis. Yeah...that. Kthxbye.

[LexiB]

Yeah. . . that's kind of what I thought. From the OP: no, Lexi, and I don't disagree with that. And to be fair, that wasn't really about what she actually weighed. From when she said: "Hey look at my pictures!" . . . different story. So, if you saw that post as well and still didn't see it as an invitation to look at her pictures and comment, well, then, yes, agree to disagree. I don't see what other purpose it could serve, except the disingenuous, gross purpose it likely did serve that makes me want to say something meaner than anything in this thread, just because it's so damn gross to put people in that positon. (But I don't because I'm not actually a mean person.)

 

 

Is this the post you're referring to?

 

I am still pissed by the person that suggested that I am the same as BBW

 

I have uploaded some body shots from this summer in LS album. I am still the same weight. I have included different angles to give you a more accurate idea. On the group photo, I am the one in the leopard top.

 

I know that I would look better if I lost at least 15lbs. And I want to lose them. I just feel that plenty of men would find me attractive even as I am *right now*. The ex boyfriend showing the comments about weight down my throat was uncalled for. I will never be skinny - I just don't have a frame for it. If he had a strong preference for thin women, he should have never asked me out.

 

If so then, yeah we disagree. Reading this, the only impression I got was that she was trying to distance herself from the BBW comparison as she understood it to mean someone's who's obese and not merely big boned or carrying a few extra pounds. It's not exactly the same context as if she'd said, "Hey my ex thought I needed to lose weight. Ha! Take a look at these pics..."

 

Anyway, it seems like a sh*tfest is starting up again. This is where I'll take my leave...

Edited August 11, 2011 by LexiB

[climbergirl]

Exactly! It shocks me that people aren't willing to admit what's going on.

 

Most people with any kind of common decency and sense of equity. The same thing happened to shadowplay.

 

There's a real difference between tough love and abuse/bullying. It's shocking that people can't see the difference. Also, even with tough love, it isn't necessarily the methodology that works with everyone, although I'm not seeing tough love, just bullying and abuse.

 

Thanks climbergirl. I'm so glad that your life turned around. No one deserved the kind of treatment that you received.

 

Particularly if you don't know the person in real life. I would consider it tough love if there were any diplomacy or empathy. Not seeing that. And it wouldn't be the first time.

 

And thanks, TBF I am so happy to read about your new family...there have been lots of changes for both of us in the last few years!

[zengirl]

For the record, I actually abhor bullying. Cannot stand it.

 

It's just that the only bully I see here is threebyfate. She's the one who attempts to bully posters and control the conversation, attacking when anything she dislikes is said.

[zengirl]

Is this the post you're referring to?

 

 

 

If so then, yeah we disagree. Reading this, the only impression I got was that she was trying to distance herself from the BBW comparison as she understood it to mean someone's who's obese and not merely big boned or carrying a few extra pounds. It's not exactly the same context as if she'd said, "Hey my ex thought I needed to lose weight. Ha! Take a look at these pics..."

 

Anyway, it seems like a sh*tfest is starting up again. This is where I'll take my leave...

 

Yep, that's what I'm referring to.

 

(And SG explained that she meant BBW = big boned. I find that acronym confusing as well.)

 

And I also find the attitude of "distancing" yourself from that group (which is a huge judgment more so than anything that was said to ES about her weight) is kind of offensive. I am genetically thin in this lifetime, but I could easily be born differently in the next life. I don't look at my friends who are larger (and not all BBW, whether it means big boned or big beautiful are morbidly obese) and think, "Gross! I must distance myself from them!" They just inherited a different shell in this lifetime.

 

That was where I really got into this conversation, I think. I don't think you can be sensitive to basic observational comments about your appearance and yet openly judge others on theirs.

[Art_Critic]

 

It's just that the only bully I see here is threebyfate. She's the one who attempts to bully posters and control the conversation, attacking when anything she dislikes is said.

 

But you have noticed that there at a minimum of 5 posters on this thread sticking up for ES because she has been bullied.. nobody has yet said that TB was bullying ES..

Instead of now accusing TBF of bullying why aren't you more inclined to see the bullying that has been happening to ES now that more than one person has mentioned it ?

 

Just curious.. you now seem to be upset at TBF instead of looking at what has happened to ES.

[A O]

Exactly! It shocks me that people aren't willing to admit what's going on.

You're never going to appeal to bullies by bullying back.

 

You want to really appeal to bullies - then don't resort to their antics!

 

Also, even with tough love, it isn't necessarily the methodology that works with everyone, although I'm not seeing tough love, just bullying and abuse.

Tough love aka simply turning one's back on ES is exactly what she needs. Constant support has not gotten her any closer to a meaningful relationship in all the time she's been here. That clearly means that she needs support of a different kind - of the professional variety.

 

 

.

[zengirl]

But you have noticed that there at a minimum of 5 posters on this thread sticking up for ES because she has been bullied.. nobody has yet said that TB was bullying ES..

Instead of now accusing TBF of bullying why aren't you more inclined to see the bullying that has been happening to ES now that more than one person has mentioned it ?

 

Just curious.. you now seem to be upset at TBF instead of looking at what has happened to ES.

 

I did look at "what has happened to ES." I see people criticizing her yes, but no one is trying to bully her (bullying implies control and coercion). TBF is actively trying to control the conversation by attacking people who have criticized ES, primarily SG.

 

Criticism and bullying are not the same, mostly because they don't have the same aim. I don't see a lot of people ascribing to SG the motive that TBF ascribes to her, whether they approve of her critical style or not. And motive is what makes a bully. ETA: FTR, I don't know what people believe her motive to be, though, nor does it matter to me. I don't see her motive as being an attempt at control or coercion myself. She's just saying what she thinks.

 

I also don't care what the masses think. As I said, I don't make my decisions based on the number of posters who think something. I don't care if I'm the only one who thinks what I think (though I'm not sure I am).

 

I certainly don't think TBF is bullying ES. . . though. Not sure where you got that one. I think TBF is being a bully in advocate of ES, towards others. Or attempting to poorly, really, since I don't think we have to worry about coercion working on SG. And I'm not upset at TBF. Just explaining the dynamic as I see it. She's welcome to keep up her crusade, if she likes.

Edited August 11, 2011 by zengirl

[TheBigQuestion]

ES never follows advice. Never has, never will. When she has, it's always been one step forward, two steps back. I agree with what a previous poster said. The best medicine for ES to grow and heal is to not respond to any of her threads at all. Everyone who has posted in this thread is an enabler to some degree or another, not just TBF.

 

With that said, I will take my own advice and make this the last post I write in this thread, or any ES makes in the future

[climbergirl]

You're never going to appeal to bullies by bullying back.

 

You want to really appeal to bullies - then don't resort to their antics!

 

Tough love aka simply turning one's back on ES is exactly what she needs. Constant support has not gotten her any closer to a meaningful relationship in all the time she's been here. That clearly means that she needs support of a different kind - of the professional variety.

 

 

.

 

 

Well, that could apply to quite a few posters here, don't you think?

[threebyfate]

Strange how people will twist things around so they can keep on bullying ES and not take adult responsibility for their own actions. For these particular individuals, how can you possibly continue abusing ES and telling her that she's not taking responsibility for her actions when none of you are doing so? Do as I say and not what I do?

 

As far as myself, notice how I avoided this thread until SG's attacks on ES started to get worse? How stupid do you people think SG is, that she wouldn't understand the term BBW when she's pretty cognizant about other online dating terms, where online dating is her main venue for dating? And the rest of you enabling the bullying, where is your common decency that you'd not only enable it but participate in it?